VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Silver_Crow117]

Here's what you posted.


View attachment 4903659

"extensive branches will be pruned" doesn't necessarily mean she's talking about Angelica's route though. She was changing a lot of things.


He says sub route is the best route. WRONG!!

Listen here buddy boy? Extensive branches on the dom side will be pruned, in context a the time of the chat was with Celeste and Angelica… but hey, we’ll see when everything is settled, I.e. which character from sub side goes dom and Vice versa… heh…

and Secondly… IT IS THE BEST PLAYSTYLE!! To me anyways , and I’ll stand proud amongst the Dom players of this forum and be the Shining Star that sub players can look up to for Guidance!!

 

[Stan5851]

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Yeah, that's right. That scene slipped my mind...Although, there are still quite a few questions. For example, who trained Kiyomi herself in martial arts, considering that there is no one tougher than her and she can wring the neck of any Karlsson...And how come her sister Katsumi got into Alexander's service.

I have a long-held belief that Katsumi, if not lying, is clearly not telling Seth everything, and I assume that she and Kiyomi are not really from a simple family of some conventional bare-assed nomads from the Badlands. Their real elite and reach family probably once had the misfortune to get in the way of Alexander's business interests and subsequently lost to him, with the result that Alexander took the sisters as his prey.

However, little Kiyomi could have been taught martial arts by a sensei, a master of martial arts (back when they lived with their parents), and when she and Katsumi were forced to submit to the Karlssons, Kiyomi had already mastered the art of fighting so well that she was able to improve on her own and become stronger and more deadly. Of course, this is just a theory, but it seems reasonable enough to me. I hope in time the veil of secrecy over Kiyomi and Katsumi's past will be lifted and we'll get to know everything in detail.

 

[kinkyshin]

Yeah, that's right. That scene slipped my mind...Although, there are still quite a few questions. For example, who trained Kiyomi herself in martial arts, considering that there is no one tougher than her and she can wring the neck of any Karlsson...And how come her sister Katsumi got into Alexander's service.

I have a long-held belief that Katsumi, if not lying, is clearly not telling Seth everything, and I assume that she and Kiyomi are not really from a simple family of some conventional bare-assed nomads from the Badlands. Their real family probably once had the misfortune to get in the way of Alexander's business interests and subsequently lost to him, with the result that Alexander took the sisters as his prey.

However, little Kiyomi could have been taught martial arts by a sensei, a master of martial arts, and when she and Katsumi were forced to submit to the Karlssons, Kiyomi had already mastered the art of fighting so well that she was able to improve on her own and become stronger and more deadly. I hope in time the veil of secrecy over Kiyomi and Katsumi's past will be lifted and we'll get to know everything in detail.

Yea, if she just said it to Seth then I would think she's lying as well. But the fact that she says it to Kane whilst on the dom route makes me think it's the truth.

As for who she's been taught by. I'm 99.9% certain it says somewhere that both Olivia and Kiyomi trained under Ying Yue.

 

[Stan5851]

Yea, if she just said it to Seth then I would think she's lying as well. But the fact that she says it to Kane whilst on the dom route makes me think it's the truth.

As for who she's been taught by. I'm 99.9% certain it says somewhere that both Olivia and Kiyomi trained under Ying Yue.

I'm leaning towards it being true too, but for now I'm sticking to my theory about an elite and wealthy family from Japan with long traditions, martial arts teachers and so on.

I thought about it, but I didn't see any mention in the game that Ying Yue might have trained Kiyomi. There was a mention of Olivia and that she studied martial arts at this temple, but that was to be expected.

 

[kinkyshin]

I'm leaning towards it being true too, but for now I'm sticking to my theory about an elite and wealthy family from Japan with long traditions, martial arts teachers and so on.

I thought about it, but I didn't see any mention in the game that Ying Yue might have trained Kiyomi. There was a mention of Olivia and that she studied martial arts at this temple, but that was to be expected.

Well Olivia outright says she was taught by Ying Yue. But yea, I'm almost certain it says somewhere or at least heavily implies that Kiyomi was also taught by her. I don't even know where to look though. Sad.

 

[Kxca]

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Here's what you posted.


View attachment 4903659

"extensive branches will be pruned" doesn't necessarily mean she's talking about Angelica's route though. She was changing a lot of things.


He says sub route is the best route. WRONG!!

Thanks for the screenshots. I knew I had seen that somewhere but didn't remember exactly where.

Ying Yue having trained Kiyomi doesn't seem too far fetched. She's similar in age to Olivia and since Callista knew Ying, its highly likely that the Karlssons did too. And since we dont see Ying in the present timeline anymore, she could have either passed away or gone into seclusion for n number of reasons. Leaving Kiyomi as the best there is.

As for the pruning, I think its being done purely for practical reasons. Tess knows that the game is too spread out and at the current rate of development where every episode is taking 1-1.5 years, the game will go into 2030s to be completed. Plus with her marriage and everything else, her life has also changed. So she's cutting out the extra routes she had planned. Ultimately we might only see endings with Olivia and the Karlsson girls. All other paths might be removed.

 

[Maviarab]

every episode is taking 1-1.5 years

 

[Silver_Crow117]

As for the pruning, I think its being done purely for practical reasons. Tess knows that the game is too spread out and at the current rate of development where every episode is taking 1-1.5 years, the game will go into 2030s to be completed. Plus with her marriage and everything else, her life has also changed. So she's cutting out the extra routes she had planned. Ultimately we might only see endings with Olivia and the Karlsson girls. All other paths might be removed.

It’s definitely not because of those reasons

 

[kinkyshin]

Well, I think I've been a strong advocate that Tess is fast and consistent, but there could be some truth to it.

Tess obviously isn't stupid but it's definitely possible that she has underestimated how much of a struggle it is to have so many branching paths. Remember when Reyes and Kiyomi gives the k4 pod the slave brands (giving Kane the option to take it or drink liquid) and then next chapter or so, Veronica heals Kane's brand and Tess made a comment that it was way too much work to have multiple renders lol

I think everyone knows that the story is getting to a place where it's soon going to branch significantly. Things like Kane and Olivia being able to die.. surely that alone will have huge changes. But Kane and Olivia picking different sides, romance options, etc... it's not just a lot of both major and minor branches.. it's an insane amount.

I know she said that next update will be shorter and therefore faster, but is that just for this next update or what she wants for all future updates? Because I think that when a story branches out so much... it just makes sense to have longer and bigger updates. Otherwise people that only play one or two routes will only get like five minutes of content. The last update was quite large and even though it took a while, it was very well received wasn't it? I'm wondering what made her want a faster update schedule in the first place.

I thought about it, but I didn't see any mention in the game that Ying Yue might have trained Kiyomi. There was a mention of Olivia and that she studied martial arts at this temple, but that was to be expected.

Okay, when it comes to confirmation that Kiyomi trained under Ying Yue I've gone from '99.9% certain' to 'almost certain' to... maybe? I still think there might have been a subtle comment somewhere that confirms or heavily implies it but I'm starting to have some doubts lol

Ultimately we might only see endings with Olivia and the Karlsson girls. All other paths might be removed.

Hmm, I thought this was an overreaction but when I look at who she's confirmed as romance options for Kane... it's pretty much only the Karlsson girls anyways lol.

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Maybe it's a tiny bit outdated, but the only T1 romance for Kane on the dom route that wasn't a Karlsson was Angelica and Junko, the latter being someone that absolutely no one cares about. Poor girl is just a stepping stone to get onto the revolution path.

But yea, I don't think there will be many endings with non-Karlsson girls but it seems that was the plan from the start.

 

[Stan5851]

Okay, when it comes to confirmation that Kiyomi trained under Ying Yue I've gone from '99.9% certain' to 'almost certain' to... maybe? I still think there might have been a subtle comment somewhere that confirms or heavily implies it but I'm starting to have some doubts lol

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[Silver_Crow117]

Well, I think I've been a strong advocate that Tess is fast and consistent, but there could be some truth to it.

Tess obviously isn't stupid but it's definitely possible that she has underestimated how much of a struggle it is to have so many branching paths. Remember when Reyes and Kiyomi gives the k4 pod the slave brands (giving Kane the option to take it or drink liquid) and then next chapter or so, Veronica heals Kane's brand and Tess made a comment that it was way too much work to have multiple renders lol

I think everyone knows that the story is getting to a place where it's soon going to branch significantly. Things like Kane and Olivia being able to die.. surely that alone will have huge changes. But Kane and Olivia picking different sides, romance options, etc... it's not just a lot of both major and minor branches.. it's an insane amount.

I know she said that next update will be shorter and therefore faster, but is that just for this next update or what she wants for all future updates? Because I think that when a story branches out so much... it just makes sense to have longer and bigger updates. Otherwise people that only play one or two routes will only get like five minutes of content. The last update was quite large and even though it took a while, it was very well received wasn't it? I'm wondering what made her want a faster update schedule in the first place.



Okay, when it comes to confirmation that Kiyomi trained under Ying Yue I've gone from '99.9% certain' to 'almost certain' to... maybe? I still think there might have been a subtle comment somewhere that confirms or heavily implies it but I'm starting to have some doubts lol



Hmm, I thought this was an overreaction but when I look at who she's confirmed as romance options for Kane... it's pretty much only the Karlsson girls anyways lol.

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Maybe it's a tiny bit outdated, but the only T1 romance for Kane on the dom route that wasn't a Karlsson was Angelica and Junko, the latter being someone that absolutely no one cares about. Poor girl is just a stepping stone to get onto the revolution path.

But yea, I don't think there will be many endings with non-Karlsson girls but it seems that was the plan from the start.

I will say that for the sub side, Characters will not only have a Slave Path and a Servant path…. But also Romances/weird Romances!

example: Juliette being one of the characters that can have him as a slave… or a servant and also have a weird romance!! (Of course content will also differ depending on what K Level your at, but depending on the Mistress you choose, you advance up as a true sub…)
Another: Dominque is going to have a slave route but no Romance path,,,
Just depends really on the Karlsson with the variety

Other characters that have routes on the sub side are
Claudia, Angelica, Elena, Kiyomi, Erica, (Possibly Celeste and or Phoebe depending on what path comes from Dom), Junko, Delilah… and that’s all I can think of atm!…obviously things can change so in the end we’ll see but atm that’s what my sub Kane database is telling me

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

I will say that for the sub side, Characters will not only have a Slave Path and a Servant path…. But also Romances/weird Romances!

example: Juliette being one of the characters that can have him as a slave… or a servant and also have a weird romance!! (Of course content will also differ depending on what K Level your at, but depending on the Mistress you choose, you advance up as a true sub…)
Another: Dominque is going to have a slave route but no Romance path,,,
Just depends really on the Karlsson with the variety

example: Juliette being one of the characters that can have him as a slave

Yep

or a servant

Yeah, still known stuff

and also have a weird romance!!

My main saves on sub are Olivia ones of both evil and good, but I knew I had a Juliette sub save tucked away for a reason.

 

[akki_sky]

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I think what you guys are talking about is Kiyomi and Katsumi are daughters of Ying Yue, which I'm also suspecting will be the case. My best guess would be Alexander took them to punish Ying for giving refuge to Calista.

 

[akki_sky]

I will say that for the sub side, Characters will not only have a Slave Path and a Servant path…. But also Romances/weird Romances!

example: Juliette being one of the characters that can have him as a slave… or a servant and also have a weird romance!! (Of course content will also differ depending on what K Level your at, but depending on the Mistress you choose, you advance up as a true sub…)
Another: Dominque is going to have a slave route but no Romance path,,,
Just depends really on the Karlsson with the variety

Other characters that have routes on the sub side are
Claudia, Angelica, Elena, Kiyomi, Erica, (Possibly Celeste and or Phoebe depending on what path comes from Dom), Junko, Delilah… and that’s all I can think of atm!…obviously things can change so in the end we’ll see but atm that’s what my sub Kane database is telling me

On dom path I'm still expecting Elena and Charolette romance. I will stop playing KG, if dev announced Elena is not available on dom path. Because I'm aware Elena playing with sub Kane in last update with Olivia permission. If that did not give dev any incest problem then I don't think there will be any for dom path too.

Then Yevette should be option available too, If Kane is going to work with her in revolution path.

Delilah also missing from dom paths since long time. Now with all of this Dekock family revelation going on in current episode, she should be more involved and should talk to Kane first now and explain everything from Dekock's prespective.

 

[kinkyshin]

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Okay, so you posted a couple pictures (I don't know if they're spoilers for the next episode or are a spin-off or what, but they look pretty familiar to what's been seen in game already...

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Anyways, as was said, those are not actually in the AVN (yet?) and everything that made me completely convinced WAS in the AVN.

If I were to imagine for a second that she was actually taught by Ying Yue and she instilled that code of honor in her, then why didn't Olivia ever hear anything about it, even though she grew up for a while in this very temple under the closest Ying Yue tutelage.

As for mentions of honor.. There are several cases where she can hear about Kiyomi's 'honor' (If she decides to help Seth she will see Juliette mention it) but she doesn't have to see these scenes because regardless if she sees the scenes or not, Olivia seems pretty damn sure she knows exactly what 'honor' means to Kiyomi (of course things can happen off camera, it's not like this is proof) but:

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It seems to me that Kiyomi recognizes Olivia's skills immediately when she trains with Seth/Kane on the sub path. Afterwards (ep7 on sub path), there is some training with pod4 and the vipers and Olivia says: "She's already caught them in only a few seconds! I don't think I could come even close doing that up there." and Kiyomi immediately realizes it's bullshit lol "Is that so Warden? After watching you kick a few times, I have a feeling you'd do better than you say..."

Anyways, I think I may have found what had me utterly 'convinced' that Kiyomi had trained under Ying Yue. It's the fact that Ying Yue's theme (literally called 'yingyue.mp3') plays when Kiyomi is alone with Seth. Not really the hard evidence I thought it was... all I remembered was something had made me go 'Damn, Kiyomi totally trained under Ying Yue!!' lol. Oh well... I don't feel like I proved anything but I definitely still think it's more likely that Kiyomi trained under Ying Yue than not.

 

[Stan5851]

I think what you guys are talking about is Kiyomi and Katsumi are daughters of Ying Yue, which I'm also suspecting will be the case. My best guess would be Alexander took them to punish Ying for giving refuge to Calista.

I certainly didn't say that. In fact, the thought never even crossed my mind. Well, your theory is definitely interesting and deserves attention.

 

[Stan5851]

Okay, so you posted a couple pictures (I don't know if they're spoilers for the next episode or are a spin-off or what, but they look pretty familiar to what's been seen in game already...

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Anyways, as was said, those are not actually in the AVN (yet?) and everything that made me completely convinced WAS in the AVN.

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[Hazardgaming]

I’m not sure how well that theory holds water. Kane has no apparent memory of either Kiyomi or Kitty. So Callista, Kane and Olivia would have had to have lived elsewhere than the mountain temple.

Children are superbly aware of minute discrepancies, and Olivia seemingly didn’t start going missing for extended periods until much later. So with transportation to and from a mountain would only work if Kane was always just really, really dense. Which would kind of contradict how Olivia mentions him always having been good at noticing things.

 

[kinkyshin]

Of course when Veronica says something like "it's a shame Katsumi will never be like her sister or mother" it's only natural to think their mother could be Ying Yue but definitely didn't consider the idea that Alexander could've enslaved them as revenge for hiding Callista... could be possible I suppose... I gotta say though.. now that I think about it the name Ying Yue sounds Chinese as fuck and Katsumi Kuromiya and Kiyomi Kuromiya are definitely Japanese... and they call Ying Yue"shifu" not 'sensei'... definitely Chinese... Alessandra and Veronica were trained by Kiyomi and have got those Japanese Shinigami masks... so definitely Japanese.. Bleh.. don't know what to think anymore...

Also, we are never told whether Kiyomi herself participated in the "reeducation" program, just like Katsumi (K4-->Z1).Apparently not...In that case, what is the reason for this? Anyway, as usual, there are more questions than answers.

I don't think there was ever any specific mention of it, but I think it's likely judging by this?

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Although, is Kiyomi even an executive? Olivia calls her 'just staff'... which I guess implies that she's not an executive. "Kiyomi is just staff here, but she is highly respected and valuable..."

At what exact age the Karlssons forcibly took Kiyomi and Katsumi to live with them. If they were toddlers, that's one thing and then (in theory) the temple idea might make sense. Let's say Alexander sent Kiyomi there to make her the perfect fighter. True, he obviously didn't think about the code of honor (or, on the contrary, he did, heh)

Of course, this scheme assumes that Alexander was well aware that Liv was raised in the same temple, i.e. it was not a secret for him and he, in fact, was a guarantor that nothing would happen to Liv and Kane (as long as Callista fulfills his conditions).

If it turns out that both Kiromiya sisters fell into the Karlssons' clutches, say, as teenagers/at a young age, then my theory that Kiyomi was raised by her family and not by the temple may well work.

I found this old relic from chapter 2 which maybe (not really) gives a bit more insight to her timeline. But I gotta say... Tess did a complete 180 with Kiyomi from the first few chapters. She was obviously intended to be a very different character than what she later became... The way she acted and spoke was very much like Katsumi.

 

[Stan5851]

Of course when Veronica says something like "it's a shame Katsumi will never be like her sister or mother" it's only natural to think their mother could be Ying Yue but definitely didn't consider the idea that Alexander could've enslaved them as revenge for hiding Callista... could be possible I suppose... I gotta say though.. now that I think about it the name Ying Yue sounds Chinese as fuck and Katsumi Kuromiya and Kiyomi Kuromiya are definitely Japanese... and they call Ying Yue"shifu" not 'sensei'... definitely Chinese... Alessandra and Veronica were trained by Kiyomi and have got those Japanese Shinigami masks... so definitely Japanese.. Bleh.. don't know what to think anymore...

Well noted.

I don't think there was ever any specific mention of it, but I think it's likely judging by this?

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Although, is Kiyomi even an executive? Olivia calls her 'just staff'... which I guess implies that she's not an executive. "Kiyomi is just staff here, but she is highly respected and valuable..."

Officially, Kiyomi is "just" a S10 rank, like Raven or Sonya. However, as we can see ourselves and from Elena's words that you quoted, Kiyomi is valued much more than Kitty with her "Senior Executive level" - Z1. I guess the truth is that Katsumi is Elena's personal slave first and foremost, and no matter what Z rank she still is. Whereas Kiyomi with her S10 is actually a much more valuable and influential figure who is respected by everyone, even Veronica's enemies like Jules.

Spoiler: S ranks

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All the Karlssons know who Katsumi is and what the limits of her usefulness are, and it can be said that if you want, you can find more people like Kitty, but there is not and cannot be a full-fledged replacement for Kiyomi.