VN Ren'Py Completed Keepers 1: Revolution [v1.1] [Lumari]

[Orphanus]

I won't rate this game since it is still in it's very early stages, it seems, but I must say I feel as if there is quite a bit of wasted potential. While I am heavily against insulting Developers or just in general getting so angry about a game that one reserves to shit-talking others in the thread, I do agree that this game, and especially the events happening so far, do not really reflect what supposedly the protagonist's personality is for example. Just mentioning something isn't enough, it has to show through events happening, things a character actually does etc.

Also I can't help but agree that there is literally no reason to present "choices" if there is just 1 way to play the game and get to what supposedly won't be a bad end. It would be way more honest to just make a kinetic VN instead of false choices that are just there to trap player's in bad ends or that are just completely superfluous.

Finally, but this is just a personal thought, mandatory rape of the Loveinterest is at best an extremely controversial choice, I would highly advice against doing that, and it doesn't matter at all if there is a choice to skip the scene. This is half my personal stance on that matter, but also half my experience of writing fiction for almost 2 decades. It's among the universal "don't do that", especially when you lack the insight, skill and talent needed to touch that sort of thing (and that's 99% of all people creating fictional stories) in a sensitive and respectful way. You can trust me or not, but even in porn games that is a very difficult topic, especially when the game is taking itself as serious as this one is.

No matter what I wish you good luck and much success in your career as a game developer. The idea to use this game as a learning process sure has some merits, your writing skills aren't bad and you clearly are passionate about your work. I do respect and appreciate that, even if, by large, it isn't my cup of tea.

 

[Lumari]

I won't rate this game since it is still in it's very early stages, it seems, but I must say I feel as if there is quite a bit of wasted potential. While I am heavily against insulting Developers or just in general getting so angry about a game that one reserves to shit-talking others in the thread, I do agree that this game, and especially the events happening so far, do not really reflect what supposedly the protagonist's personality is for example. Just mentioning something isn't enough, it has to show through events happening, things a character actually does etc.

Also I can't help but agree that there is literally no reason to present "choices" if there is just 1 way to play the game and get to what supposedly won't be a bad end. It would be way more honest to just make a kinetic VN instead of false choices that are just there to trap player's in bad ends or that are just completely superfluous.

Finally, but this is just a personal thought, mandatory rape of the Loveinterest is at best an extremely controversial choice, I would highly advice against doing that, and it doesn't matter at all if there is a choice to skip the scene. This is half my personal stance on that matter, but also half my experience of writing fiction for almost 2 decades. It's among the universal "don't do that", especially when you lack the insight, skill and talent needed to touch that sort of thing (and that's 99% of all people creating fictional stories) in a sensitive and respectful way. You can trust me or not, but even in porn games that is a very difficult topic, especially when the game is taking itself as serious as this one is.

No matter what I wish you good luck and much success in your career as a game developer. The idea to use this game as a learning process sure has some merits, your writing skills aren't bad and you clearly are passionate about your work. I do respect and appreciate that, even if, by large, it isn't my cup of tea.

Big Thanks for that reply. That really is some good written negative feedback that I'm more than happy to answer~
I get almost no negative feedback like that so I'd would like it if you could get more into detail in a private conversation.
I'm always happy to improve on what others think is improvable. (Only if you want of course)

For the second point: I can't make it right for everyone. People would also argue if the game would be completly linear. I had people messaging me that I should not force things on players so that's how I ended up with all those paths. And what should I say... most things I do get positive feedback. (I don't want to brag with this. It's just that the people liking what I do are way louder than the people who don't like it. I'd be happy to get more constructive negative feedback like yours.)

for the NTR story: I appreciate your concern and it may happen that this event will be horribly bad but I'll do it anyway. I noted down what you said about handling this topic respectfully and I'll do what I can to make it as good as I'm able too. (And I most likely won't repeat an NTR event like this!)

Hope you found at least a small part of the game enjoyable.
Thanks for this feedback again~

 

[Orphanus]

Big Thanks for that reply. That really is some good written negative feedback that I'm more than happy to answer~
I get almost no negative feedback like that so I'd would like it if you could get more into detail in a private conversation.
I'm always happy to improve on what others think is improvable. (Only if you want of course)

For the second point: I can't make it right for everyone. People would also argue if the game would be completly linear. I had people messaging me that I should not force things on players so that's how I ended up with all those paths. And what should I say... most things I do get positive feedback. (I don't want to brag with this. It's just that the people liking what I do are way louder than the people who don't like it. I'd be happy to get more constructive negative feedback like yours.)

for the NTR story: I appreciate your concern and it may happen that this event will be horribly bad but I'll do it anyway. I noted down what you said about handling this topic respectfully and I'll do what I can to make it as good as I'm able too. (And I most likely won't repeat an NTR event like this!)

Hope you found at least a small part of the game enjoyable.
Thanks for this feedback again~

If I didn't like anything about your game I wouldn't have bothered to write a long comment on it, as far as I can see it you got talent and you are creative, I will certainly take a look at other games you release, should it come to that.

Edit: Also I see your points, you are making deliberate decisions and even if I might not feel like playing this first game due to them it's almost always better to go with what feels right for you instead of swaying from one direction to the other, trying to please every potential type of player.

 

[Shinlaw]

Can't possibly miss a promising yuri game, and this one is even fun to read!

Not sure what is this talk about NTR, are you preparing the audience for the next updates? Fuck NTR, but I guess I'd swallow it this once, cuz the game is actually very interesting. I love the depth of the world, some more character development would be great though. So far the elf girl in the group had less lines than the "Guard 1"

 

[jclosed]

Can't possibly miss a promising yuri game, and this one is even fun to read!

Not sure what is this talk about NTR, are you preparing the audience for the next updates? Fuck NTR, but I guess I'd swallow it this once, cuz the game is actually very interesting. I love the depth of the world, some more character development would be great though. So far the elf girl in the group had less lines than the "Guard 1"

It's the mandatory rape of love interest that's a BIG turn off for me. I hate every form of force in erotic VN's (with that I mean rape, mind control/hypnosis, confinement, violence and so on). As said before - I won't criticize the developer of this game. That would be childish. And there are lots of people that do like that kind of stuff, so why should I complain about that?
I am not against all forms of NTR. I have no big problems with Netori or Netorase, but Netorare is a big No for me.
If that mandatory rape was not present I would give this VN a chance (as long as there is no Netorare later on). However, as it is now I just do not even want to start plreading this.

That all said - I wish the developer all the best and good luck with this VN. There are certainly readers that will enjoy it.

 

[Darkmessiah30]

i see pregnancy in the tags whos the one getting knocked up the mc or someone else?

 

[Lumari]

Can't possibly miss a promising yuri game, and this one is even fun to read!

Not sure what is this talk about NTR, are you preparing the audience for the next updates? Fuck NTR, but I guess I'd swallow it this once, cuz the game is actually very interesting. I love the depth of the world, some more character development would be great though. So far the elf girl in the group had less lines than the "Guard 1"

You have to swallow very hard then. But thanks for making an exception.
And for the elf girl: I already told discord the next update focuses on her~
Also: Reading dev notes could save you time~

It's the mandatory rape of love interest that's a BIG turn off for me. I hate every form of force in erotic VN's (with that I mean rape, mind control/hypnosis, confinement, violence and so on). As said before - I won't criticize the developer of this game. That would be childish. And there are lots of people that do like that kind of stuff, so why should I complain about that?
I am not against all forms of NTR. I have no big problems with Netori or Netorase, but Netorare is a big No for me.
If that mandatory rape was not present I would give this VN a chance (as long as there is no Netorare later on). However, as it is now I just do not even want to start plreading this.

That all said - I wish the developer all the best and good luck with this VN. There are certainly readers that will enjoy it.

I would be very happy if this doesn't escalate into a huge NTR discussion. You can have your opinion about that but please don't make a big deal about it here. There are other forums for that here~
On another note: Even I don't 'enjoy' some of the things/tags in this game. For me it's mostly how things are written. A tag that I don't like can be used in a way that I can still appreciate it for example. And in this game this would include the NTR tag. The scene won't focus on: "Oh no my loved one gets raped". The focus is on what this scene results in for the story.
Hope you find something that suits your taste better though. Thanks~

 

[Lumari]

i see pregnancy in the tags whos the one getting knocked up the mc or someone else?

Both. Only in bad endings though. So it's not a game mechanic

 

[menatv]

Make the game the way you see fit. As you said, you can't please everyone. We all have our likes/dislikes/fetishes, etc.

And for the record, I like what I've seen so far. Keep on keepin' on.

 

[Asuminoya]

Can't possibly miss a promising yuri game, and this one is even fun to read!

Not sure what is this talk about NTR, are you preparing the audience for the next updates? Fuck NTR, but I guess I'd swallow it this once, cuz the game is actually very interesting. I love the depth of the world, some more character development would be great though. So far the elf girl in the group had less lines than the "Guard 1"

Yo I initially came here for the yuri as well, although I would probably advice you dropping it if you're here for that. No offense towards the dev, but they seem stubborn on having the girlfriend unavoidably NTR raped in a future update.
I have no problems with avoidable NTR/rape in a game with a yuri couple, but unavoidable scene no matter what you do really leaves a bad taste for me (and probably most).

I'd recommend the dev to just drop the entire yuri theme if they're gonna force the girlfriend being raped (by a male presumably) upon us, as 95% of yuri fans won't stick here for that.
Honestly better to just focus on hetero stuff and hetero pairings exclusively then and more people will stay interested.

 

[Shinlaw]

Yo I initially came here for the yuri as well, although I would probably advice you dropping it if you're here for that. No offense towards the dev, but they seem stubborn on having the girlfriend unavoidably NTR raped in a future update.
I have no problems with avoidable NTR/rape in a game with a yuri couple, but unavoidable scene no matter what you do really leaves a bad taste for me (and probably most).

I'd recommend the dev to just drop the entire yuri theme if they're gonna force the girlfriend being raped (by a male presumably) upon us, as 95% of yuri fans won't stick here for that.
Honestly better to just focus on hetero stuff and hetero pairings exclusively then and more people will stay interested.

Honestly, I'm just happy that people are making any yuri games, my bar is that low at this point c:
Can't really say where NTR belongs better, imo - nowhere. But it is a powerful tool for emotional involvement… I guess?

 

[Orphanus]

Honestly, I'm just happy that people are making any yuri games, my bar is that low at this point c:
Can't really say where NTR belongs better, imo - nowhere. But it is a powerful tool for emotional involvement… I guess?

The problem I see with that sort of stuff in general (aside from finding it really tasteless) is that 1st of all (but that is just a maybe) if it is done by a male that by default makes the whole thing (game/VN) not-really-yuri at the end of day. But that is another topic and might not even apply here.
The major general problem is that this sort of event has repercussions & effects on both characters (protagonist, loveinterest) as well as their entire relationship. Depicting that in a realistic and sensitive manner is borderline impossible, and I would never try to do it because I don't think I am in any position to dive into that topic without triggering potential readers (since I just write stuff and dont make games; AND I mean literally triggering in the medicinal sense) who might have experienced this sort of disgusting shit. Furthermore who am I to try and tell readers how someone would feel in that situation? Who am I to try and pretend that I can present such a dire, impactful event in a proper way that isn't superficial, short sighted and insensitive? I, thank god, never made an experience like that (from neither side). I do, however, work with traumatized youths and I can tell you that the mere thought of what some of them went through makes me sick in my stomach. The last thing coming to my mind is to take those situations and use them as something to make the plot of stuff I write "more interesting" and then go about it and say that I don't want to really deal with how the victims involved feel about it?
I know for a fact that this sort of thing has a tendency to utterly ruin relationships and to make people struggle to build up trust and any sense of self-worth again, sometimes for the rest of their lives. This obviously will impact and effect everything between the protag & the LI from there on.
It truly shouldn't be used as a tool to get the plot going, but it easily ends up that way (even unintentionally) when someone doesn't manage to keep in mind all the consequences of such an atrocious event and also make sure they properly translate into the game. I think everyone can imagine that it all then also needs to be taken into account for future content, not just immediately afterwards.

Let me point out that this applies for situations (in this case games) were the topic is approached in a serious manner. Of course there are tons of porn games with dubious consent and whatnot, but there are different angles to approach things. A Trials in Tainted Space isn't trying to be a deep, emotional/psychologically enlightening depiction of anything. It's a parody, at the end of day, despite having emotional moments and some actually more romance focused chunks, depending on the writer. The things done there work so well because it's "over-the-top".

This game though seems to try and be a realistic, intricate, relationship-focused story. It won't get away with the same sort of approach & you can't make this sort of thing an isolated element, it will tarnish everything from the moment it happened onward.

 

[Lumari]

The problem I see with that sort of stuff in general (aside from finding it really tasteless) is that 1st of all (but that is just a maybe) if it is done by a male that by default makes the whole thing (game/VN) not-really-yuri at the end of day. But that is another topic and might not even apply here.
The major general problem is that this sort of event has repercussions & effects on both characters (protagonist, loveinterest) as well as their entire relationship. Depicting that in a realistic and sensitive manner is borderline impossible, and I would never try to do it because I don't think I am in any position to dive into that topic without triggering potential readers (since I just write stuff and dont make games; AND I mean literally triggering in the medicinal sense) who might have experienced this sort of disgusting shit. Furthermore who am I to try and tell readers how someone would feel in that situation? Who am I to try and pretend that I can present such a dire, impactful event in a proper way that isn't superficial, short sighted and insensitive? I, thank god, never made an experience like that (from neither side). I do, however, work with traumatized youths and I can tell you that the mere thought of what some of them went through makes me sick in my stomach. The last thing coming to my mind is to take those situations and use them as something to make the plot of stuff I write "more interesting" and then go about it and say that I don't want to really deal with how the victims involved feel about it?
I know for a fact that this sort of thing has a tendency to utterly ruin relationships and to make people struggle to build up trust and any sense of self-worth again, sometimes for the rest of their lives. This obviously will impact and effect everything between the protag & the LI from there on.
It truly shouldn't be used as a tool to get the plot going, but it easily ends up that way (even unintentionally) when someone doesn't manage to keep in mind all the consequences of such an atrocious event and also make sure they properly translate into the game. I think everyone can imagine that it all then also needs to be taken into account for future content, not just immediately afterwards.

Let me point out that this applies for situations (in this case games) were the topic is approached in a serious manner. Of course there are tons of porn games with dubious consent and whatnot, but there are different angles to approach things. A Trials in Tainted Space isn't trying to be a deep, emotional/psychologically enlightening depiction of anything. It's a parody, at the end of day, despite having emotional moments and some actually more romance focused chunks, depending on the writer. The things done there work so well because it's "over-the-top".

This game though seems to try and be a realistic, intricate, relationship-focused story. It won't get away with the same sort of approach & you can't make this sort of thing an isolated element, it will tarnish everything from the moment it happened onward.

I really don't want to be this person but I already said: I don't want this thread to be an NTR discussion. I see myself forced to report people who continue this. You can talk about it but not in this thread please.
You can even message me personaly or discuss this on my discord server with me with, but not here. thank you~
On another note: How about waiting until the scene comes before jumping to any conclusions. I know how shity NTR is (I have multiple experiences with it) and I don't like it too. As I said: the game won't focus on the ntr part. There are reasons for that that I can't explain without spoiling a huge junk of the story. So just bear with the information that ntr will happen at some point and I'll make my best to respect this topic and make a huge warning about it.

 

[Deleted member 923548]

Honestly, I'm just happy that people are making any yuri games, my bar is that low at this point c:
Can't really say where NTR belongs better, imo - nowhere. But it is a powerful tool for emotional involvement… I guess?

just asking, but since when is this a yuri game, I asked the dev if there was a lesbian route and they said no.

 

[Orphanus]

just asking, but since when is this a yuri game, I asked the dev if there was a lesbian route and they said no.

That's actually a good point, and there might subsequentially be a major misunderstanding, but the center point of the game seem to be the story + the relationship between the protagonist (female) and Rumi (2nd female main character), which is said to potentially be a romantic one, which would make it a yuri romance, would it not? From what I understand there's no lesbian route cause of forced sex with male npcs, but in case that is wrong I will say I am actually pretty sorry, for at least part of what I wrote to the Dev had to do with my assumption of those 2 things (1st is story, 2nd is the relationship between protag & Rumi) being the center point of the game.

Edit: confusing inter-punctuation

 

[Shinlaw]

just asking, but since when is this a yuri game, I asked the dev if there was a lesbian route and they said no.

Well, I took it for what it is, and so far it's only girl-on-girl stuff. With some futa though, but let's not get into that c:

Anyway, this is the dev's story to create. A well enough reason not to force my opinions on him, not a reason enough to not discuss where it goes with other people. You put it out there, Lumari, I don't understand why you'd want to shut the discussion.

Some people have low filter on their comments, but the general point is that they expected one thing, kinda got it, and then realised that the thing will change drastically. So here you've got it - a bunch of people starving for yuri-romance games not signing up for an emotional trauma. Just roll with it I guess, you'll get the right audience eventually.

 

[Deleted member 923548]

That's actually a good point, and there might subsequentially be a major misunderstanding, but the center point of the game seem to be the story + the relationship between the protagonist (female) and Rumi (2nd female main character), which is said to potentially be a romantic one, which would make it a yuri romance, would it not? From what I understand there's no lesbian route cause of forced sex with male npcs, but in case that is wrong I will say I am actually pretty sorry, for at least part of what I wrote to the Dev had to do with my assumption of those 2 things (1st is story, 2nd is the relationship between protag & Rumi) being the center point of the game.

Edit: confusing inter-punctuation

Well, I took it for what it is, and so far it's only girl-on-girl stuff. With some futa though, but let's not get into that c:

Anyway, this is the dev's story to create. A well enough reason not to force my opinions on him, not a reason enough to not discuss where it goes with other people. You put it out there, Lumari, I don't understand why you'd want to shut the discussion.

Some people have low filter on their comments, but the general point is that they expected one thing, kinda got it, and then realised that the thing will change drastically. So here you've got it - a bunch of people starving for yuri-romance games not signing up for an emotional trauma. Just roll with it I guess, you'll get the right audience eventually.

well, it may be confusion or it depends on what each person thinks,

but I doubt that only the fact of having a story centered on a "possible romance" between 2 women qualifies it as yuri, there must be "more" to qualify it as such, also to say a "yuri game" is to say that the game is only yuri, which by the tags you can see that it is not.

but well, i apologize to the dev for going off topic, i had ignored this game but this site's terrible search system made me see the "yuri" comments and i was confused.
good luck.

 

[Mommysbuttslut]

Anyway, this is the dev's story to create. A well enough reason not to force my opinions on him, not a reason enough to not discuss where it goes with other people. You put it out there, Lumari, I don't understand why you'd want to shut the discussion.

Some people have low filter on their comments, but the general point is that they expected one thing, kinda got it, and then realised that the thing will change drastically. So here you've got it - a bunch of people starving for yuri-romance games not signing up for an emotional trauma. Just roll with it I guess, you'll get the right audience eventually.

Because it had already been discussed to death and back on the first couple pages. There comes a point where a discussion stops being productive and just devolves into borderline harassment territory. Let the dev make the game they want, they've long acknowledged these issues exist and they still want to tell their story.

Like I hate NTR big time so I see where people are coming from, even more than NTR the rape of a LI is especially gross. It hits different with a female protagonist imo though so I'm going to wait until the scene actually drops before I decide if I want to pick the game up or not. Especially after the dev indicated the scene might be skippable, but not avoidable. If the dev can handle the narrative well, at least according to the posters here after it drops, and I won't have to see the scene then I kinda want to see how it all plays out.

 

[Lumari]

That's actually a good point, and there might subsequentially be a major misunderstanding, but the center point of the game seem to be the story + the relationship between the protagonist (female) and Rumi (2nd female main character), which is said to potentially be a romantic one, which would make it a yuri romance, would it not? From what I understand there's no lesbian route cause of forced sex with male npcs, but in case that is wrong I will say I am actually pretty sorry, for at least part of what I wrote to the Dev had to do with my assumption of those 2 things (1st is story, 2nd is the relationship between protag & Rumi) being the center point of the game.

Edit: confusing inter-punctuation

Sorry had things to do so I rushed my last post. If what I said sounded rude I apologize for that of course (and english is not my native language too)~
The big problem I have is that a lot of people see this and think that this event is a huge thing and a major point of the game. It gets narrowed down to this one event and that is exactly what I would like to avoid because this game has much more things to it than this one scene (which isn't even in the game yet.)

And yes this game does not focus on the yuri relationship. I said so in all dev notes. And I should make one more thing clear:
Rumi is important to Hikari yes. But she's not the 'second' protagonist. I thought that was clear. That's why I didn't understood what this long conversation is about. I clearly said: This is NOT a vanila lesbian love story. Of course their relationship has romantic elements. But the main focus of this game is the story. I don't want people to feel shitty about a stolen LI. I want a story about a nobody who gets into something way bigger than she can handle, an adventure that could suddenly end in various ways. (On another note... Still no male character involved. It's a futa that does it.)

If you, and for that all the others, who thought this is a vanila yuri romance game then this whole conversation was a big missunderstanding on both ends and I apologize if I was rude in any way.~

Well, I took it for what it is, and so far it's only girl-on-girl stuff. With some futa though, but let's not get into that c:

Anyway, this is the dev's story to create. A well enough reason not to force my opinions on him, not a reason enough to not discuss where it goes with other people. You put it out there, Lumari, I don't understand why you'd want to shut the discussion.

Some people have low filter on their comments, but the general point is that they expected one thing, kinda got it, and then realised that the thing will change drastically. So here you've got it - a bunch of people starving for yuri-romance games not signing up for an emotional trauma. Just roll with it I guess, you'll get the right audience eventually.

The thing is... I said this game gets dark from v.0.1. It's written in the dev notes in every single update so if anyone complains about dark stuff then sorry... but I don't feel responsible for people not reading dev notes. That's like playing ddlc without reading the description and then complaining about the horror stuff.

So to hopefully end this whole discussion now... outsch...
This game focuses on the story and adventure of the protagonist only! This is a dark fantasy VN and not a yuri romance novel~
I'm kinda worn out by this so I won't answer again for today. Have fun~

 

[Asuminoya]

Hmm.. Guess I misunderstood it somewhat then. I was never fooled into thinking this would be a vanilla romance novel, it says pretty clearly the game's dark at the game page.
Still I got the impression the relationship between MC and Rumi would have a big role in the game and they would experience a lot of the story/adventure together, maybe I was wrong about that.
If Rumi is just largely an irrelevant NPC with some few optional fluff scenes then I suppose the NTR(if it even is that) rape scene will hardly be that impactful and it's whatever.
So more like classic JRPG with everything centered on the FMC being thrown into all sorts of dark sex stuff.

edit: I don't think people thought this would be a 'yuri only game', dev, more like a game with a decent amount of lesbian content (MC and Rumi as a couple) and a lot of other stuff including dark scenes.
I mean hell, just look at game picture at front page, can't blame people thinking them being a couple has a big role.