Well, if you intend to leave it that way, it's okay, I can see how it could work. I didn't go through that option myself, but does it emphasize how Sensei could confess right now and probably hurting Rin a lot more than now in the future but lol who the fuck wants to bother, let's just delay and lie, that will never backfire?
- Nov 3, 2019
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The reason they call it a visual novel is because it is a computerized novel with visual aids. It is a text medium with pictures, the text is ALWAYS the focus of the developer behind the novel except in instances where sex is thrown in just to have sex scenes. No, there is not plenty of information in the visuals, you could have a rape scene depicted and have the text say it was consensual. In this, admittedly very extreme, example, the act is not a rape scene because the text says she consented. The reverse is also possible, the visual looks consensual, but in the text she resists, so it is rape. A visual aid does not transform the medium. A physical novel, by which I mean an actual book, doesn't become a visual medium just because it was published with some pictures in it, so a visual novel doesn't either. There are plenty of physical novels that, yes, have pictures, usually an illustration at the beginning of a chapter if anything unless it is adapted from a film, in which case actual scenes from the film might be placed on inserted photo paper. Things are already balanced exactly as Selebus wants, with the text taking priority. 'too much text' is NEVER a valid argument in anything short of a school assignment with a maximum word limit.
Nope, it is yours. You proceeded to have a sexual relationship with the girl she likes. You took an action that resulted in betraying her trust and you also failed to take actions in game, in this thread, and in all other media related to the game that would warn you of this betrayal. It is EXTREMELY common knowledge that this can occur and WILL under specific conditions. It is THE most talked about thing in this thread with another scene being a close second. It is fully intended to be as it is, life is not always clear on what is the right course of action and this game portrays that perfectly.
It isn't the fault of the player that they broke the promise in that case, it is the fault of the player that they did things in a way so that they were unable to fulfill the promise before it was even made. Holding off on Schadenfreude is the best course of action as is restarting from a point before it if you fail to do so.
They may know and just not pay specific attention to which they use. I'm usually an extreme grammar Nazi and have to hold back from correcting literally every spelling and grammar error I see or hear, but I am much more relaxed about it on here.
Please tell me that pun was not intended, those of you who have yet to play the game will know what I mean when you see it. The 'happy' event is actually extremely linear, but there is a main event right after that is not. If you mean the whole terminal puzzle, that was actually part of there is nothing. I'm starting to believe that theory of yours might be the case as well.
Exactly, boring, monotonous, dull. Words I don't want anything to do with unless I'm using them in a writing project. Life needs some adventure, some fun, some things that don't always go the way we want, and that is exactly how life is. The same can be said of this game. It would be extremely boring to be able to predict everything and just make decisions based on that knowledge that will get us the best outcome. No offense to Selebus, of course.
It isn't about promising not to do something you already have, it's about not making decisions that bear the possibility of hurting people. Unlike this game, you don't have a game thread on a forum or a wiki telling you not to do something or you'll hurt somebody by doing it. You have to either take the chance with the risk or play it safe and potentially risk not getting what the former would get you with potentially zero information to help make that decision. The bottom line is you had the information readily available in multiple places and did not use it, you went ahead and began a sexual relationship with Chika before Rin got the chance to try and you hurt Rin in the process, badly.
To be fair, he basically coceals all his relationships. The only ones I can think of who know are Ayane, *looks over shoulder in fear of a knife wielding blonde*, Ami, *looks over shoulder again for a knife wielding redhead*, Maya, Rin, Yumi, Kirin, Makoto, Haruka, Sara, probably Sana because of the bar's acoustics, and Chika. I didn't get the feeling the rest were aware, though Chinami might suspect player Sensei and Chika, she seems a bit more intelligent than she lets on and more than average for her age or at least more attentive to such things, but she doesn't seem to know.
I wouldn't want it any other way than yours. Challenge accepted, by the way. I'm going to get that perfect run no matter the cost.
I keep forgetting about that one, can't wait to see what the dark routes have in store. Do your worst, Selebus. I'll take anything and everything you throw at me.
Indeed, there aren't many games where the choices truly matter. Some may say the choices matter, but this is one of the few that bear grave consequences for even the tiniest mistake, just like life itself. That feeling when you've already gone too far with Chika and Rin asks you not to, that feeling when you know you've already screwed up before even getting a chance, you can't beat that. The feeling you get when you know, but do it anyway. Even that doesn't hold a candle to the dread of the 'oh shit' realization that dawns when you're already finger blasting Chika when Rin asks you to hold back for a while. It was a brilliant move by Selebus, really. Now, I will admit that my case was different. There was no promise at the time I started relations at that level with Chika, it hadn't been added yet, but the result is the same. I had still already done what Rin asked me not to. That dread still persists in me now. I actually didn't expect her to react as she did, she burned me for it, but I was fully resigned to getting chewed out by a VERY irate Rin. I was expecting her to be pissed, I was expecting her to yell at me, to beat me to a pulp, something out of anger, but she didn't. She showed incredible restraint in the aftermath. Personally, I am a full blown pacifist that would only ever use violence when there was no other option, but even I don't have the restraint in me she showed. In fact, the fact that she didn't is even worse now that I think about it. She blew right passed reacting out of anger. She was so angry that her calmness in the aftermath did all her talking for her. She might have said she wasn't angry, I honestly forgot her exact words, but I do remember the general scene and you can tell that isn't true. That calm anger is the absolute worst. If a girl is perfectly calm after you do something this severe, it's time to leave the freaking planet for your own safety. Calm anger is when they are at their angriest and it won't be pretty if you let it boil over. Luckily, she didn't seem to boil over after. As for 'destroying everyone,' I can't, I just can't. Go ahead, HOPE-Sama, force me to do it, but I refuse to do it of my own accord.
All events not counted as lust events are important to progression. There are multiple events with other events needed to see them. If you cannot progress, raise affection with each girl. If something doesn't trigger automatically, use the weekends and the call and invite options to see if it is a scene that only triggers by your interaction. That said, only events that serve as prerequisites are necessary before the event that needs them. Events like Schadenfreude don't need to be done in any specific order as long as they are done at some point. You have to do them to progress, but the order is entirely your decision with any event that isn't a prerequisite or any event that doesn't have prerequisites besides affection level.
That's almost guaranteed in this genre. I'm not sure it will become an Utsuge, but the true ending probably won't be a positive ending. Selebus seems to be going more of the Denpa route, but either way, positive isn't likely.
For those of us considered bad homies, it already has backfired, spectacularly at that.
Maybe, maybe not. The genre of VN this pulls from doesn't bode well, but we might get a little happiness thrown our way.Hopefully the purity routes will at least be happy
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- Sep 15, 2020
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Lol, guys, you're all talking and crying about "bad homie" thing and reverting it, and here am I, who since that update hadn't even tried to go the good way. Like, isn't that cool to stick to your decisions, good or bad, until the end? Of course, I'll take all routes when Sel finishes the game (he will, right? right..?), but for now I just enjoy the things he said about player not having control. So many devs are jumping around their players and their mostly stupid demands that it almost nauseating to watch. Thanks, Selebus for returning me HOPE in gamedev, where author's vision is author's vision, with soul and dedication, and not a kindergarten for scared and oversensitive!
Its because, when given the choice, people will hit the reset button as they either feel horrible, feel they didn't get a choice, or feel its not the outcome they were aiming for so why not revert this world with the click of a save. However, good on you for your convictions!
It's good to have principles you stick to and enjoy being challenged on that notion by developers wanting to give you a proper experience, and I'm sure he'll keep working on this as its what he wants to do-or shit maybe he's just HOPE and he's bored as shit and needs outsider interlopers to fuck his children.
I know, and the game suffers when they do that because the dev's vision of it gets thrown completely out the window. That's one thing I like about Selebus as a dev, he hasn't thrown any of his vision out, he intends to do it his way no matter what. Don't worry, he'll finish this, I have faith in that much at least. As for sticking to our decisions, in a real play through, sure, I agree, but I don't do a real play through until the game is complete. I'm trying to develop a save on which I can watch everything, then I will play it again and THAT play through will be handled how I normally would, including any bad decisions.
IRL, I have an extreme fear of failure, so much so that it causes me to fail, as ironic as that sounds. I am so afraid of failing that even attempting something I don't have 100% faith I will succeed in causes me to mess up and ultimately leads exactly where I don't want it to. Tests are a prime example, I literally blank on even my most passionate topics the second the test begins. Given the chance to reset, my fear has no chance to manifest because I am secure in my faith that there is still a way out of failure even if a poor decision is made, even if I don't take the opportunity to reset. So yeah, you're right about what we will do if given the chance. I've already got a reset planned that I keep putting off for some reason. I meant to do it in 0.9.0, then 0.10.0 part 2, and then in 0.11.0 and still haven't yet I've already done everything.
Nah, I mean specifically the "I already fingerblasted Chika, but I am going to lie you still have a chance" thing. I do know what happens if you decide to be a bad homie in general.
- Sep 6, 2017
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If you chose to finger blast Chika before Rin got her chance, regardless of circumstances, you were a bad homie. That's the meaning of the term bad homie in the context of this game. Assuming player Sensei somehow managed to both keep Rin from noticing and Chika from blabbing, yes, it would hurt Rin far more to keep it secret over a longer period than what happened. It would do damage not only because of your betrayal by finger blasting Chika before she got to confess, but it would hurt her that you then proceeded to keep that from her, or worse, lied right to her face about it, and even more so if Chika did as well considering their friendship. That's two betrayals from the man she trusted to keep a single, very simple promise and one from the person she considers one of her dearest friends. The closer the bond, the more damage betrayal does to a person. We would probably have seen FAR worse than her bawling her eyes out after if both player Sensei and Chika betrayed her like that. She's already in an extremely dangerous state of mind with her depression, but betrayal by the two people closest to her could mean her end by her own hand. This much is fairly obvious once you take into account her deep feelings for Chika, her trust in you, and her depression being on the level of self harm and delirium. She's teetering on a VERY dangerous cliff edge and that level of betrayal could have easily been the final push needed to send her over it. I have no doubt it WOULD have been if she hadn't had player Sensei to comfort her after or if player Sensei and Chika both tried to hide it from her and/or lied to her face. She would feel helpless, she would feel she has nowhere to go, she would feel she has no one to turn to, and then we would discover her in her dorm room far too late to save her. Yes, she has her roommate, Futaba, but Futaba alone would not be enough at this level, not with this much damage done. Rin would feel far too betrayed to trust even her.
Holy wall of text Batman. While I appreciate you sharing your theories about Rin's hypothetical emotional state - though I would appreciate them more if you used line breaks - what I was asking is what happens during the event itself, and what are Sensei's thoughts there.
Pun was not intended, especially with the subject matter, I was just trying to find a way to convey that things went from 0 to 100 real fast. Yeah it was the terminal, thought it was a happy event since thats mostly when these types of things happen, but i couldn't figure out the username for the longest time in both instances.
- Mar 29, 2020
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Bruh, comic books are analyzed as visual medium and understood as such, you can tell a story with zero text and only visuals. Can you argue in good faith that comics/manga are visual medium, but vn are not? I can't. I can't exactly tell you where is a cut off point between a textual and visual mediums, what ratio of text to picture it is, but vn are definitely visual medium.
"Too much text" is absolutely a valid argument, if it wasn't there will be no editing. If it doesn't serve any valid purpose, cut it out. There's a meme going around, that the "left can't meme" or whatever. It usually goes with examples of such butched attempts, with walls of text attached. I understand, that's a bit reaching, but if enything mems are visual mediums, they require the least amount of text.
Visual part in vn goes beyond "aid", it's a parallel avenue of telling a story, and in Lessons of Love there are many examples of "showing, but not telling", in other words delivering information exclusively through visual means.
The "too much text" argument isn't about overall word count. You have an impression that there's too much text if it doesn't do anything for you. It repeats things that are already said, establish already established things, doesn't do anything for characters or story etc. It's entirely subjective, but it's there.
If you keep hearing "there's too much _blank_" in your story, movie, whatever, even if medium that you use to tell said story relies heavily on this _blank_ to the point of being defined as a medium by this thing, it's time to tweak things around, shorten this a and that, smart it up, change the way you deliver this piece of info, if it's important, or cut it away if it's not. This apply to anything, be it books or movies.
Even in my response I cut things away, that I deemed unimportant, or too poorly worded to be meaningful and broke it down by paragraphs to make it somewhat easier to read. I bet you did that too with your answer. Because "too much" is still too much.
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- Dec 1, 2017
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For what it's worth, I don't agree it's a betrayal if you don't know beforehand how Rin feels. I know you don't agree and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But I think you're really downplaying the following aspects
1.) There is a path that you can engage with Chika BEFORE you know Rin is into her.
2.) There is no indication before you start Schadenfreude that it will go down the path it does.
3.) Once you realize where Schadenfreude is going, you have no choices to stop except to load a old save (or rollback if you're not too far into it).
4.) If you haven't made the promise to Rin and she hasn't told her your feelings, you have no reason to stop. This event might not be required for the beach event but it is required in general to progress. And neither of these things can be known by a first time player.
5.) Comparing this to real life is a bad comparison because a game cannot possibly address all the different aspects and choices a real person can make in this situation.
All that being said, Selebus has said that the intent is to be unfair here. That you are meant to fail in situations like this. So if that is the intent, then so be it. I still don't like that particular situation but it's not even close to making me not want to play the game. I like the game enough to redo a significant portion not to hurt Rin's feelings and not cheat. I don't want to be a "Bad Homie" and if given all the information up front, I would have made decisions to that effect.
Now... just to head off the "real life" argument. Could this happen in real life? Sure. I could ask someone out that a friend of mine is into without knowing they are into them. I could do so in a way that they don't know I've done it. That in and of itself is not a betrayal in my book. As based on the information I have at the time, I don't know that I'm hurting anyone.
Once I /do/ know that my friend is into them, I have four choices.
1. Tell them what has happened and break it off --> Good Homie
2. Tell them what has happened and not break it off --> Bad Homie
3. Don't tell them what has happened and break it off --> Still probably Bad Homie
4. Do what Sensai did --> Definitely Bad Homie and the only option we're given in the game.
So once again, I'm not asking it be changed because Selebus has communicated that it was the intent here. I don't like it and that's fine. There are other things about games I love that I don't like. There are very few that love EVERY aspect of a game 100%. We still love them, we still play them as I will with this game.
So I'm here baking cookies for Santa, and instead of thinking of delicious baked goods or Christmas cheer, I'm sitting here worrying about Makoto and cursing myself Sensei for being such a shit friend.
Fuck you, Selebus, and your masterfully written characters and narrative. Also, Merry Christmas Selebus (and everyone here)! HOPE your holiday season is full ofclocks crucifixion existential dread watermelons happiness and blessings! Praise be
Fuck you, Selebus, and your masterfully written characters and narrative. Also, Merry Christmas Selebus (and everyone here)! HOPE your holiday season is full of
I can get a little wordy in my replies depending on what needs said. That one isn't a theory, it is a series of observations based on her events both leading up to and resulting from her cofession. Her mental state isn't hypothetical, it is very much a reality within the world of the game. Play her events and you'll see before you ever even get to her confession. I had assumed your question was a what if on what would happen if player Sensei had successfully managed not to be found out, so apologies if that turned out to be a misinterpretation. Because of the nature of the answer to your question, in this comment I am replying to, it will be spoilered due to having a direct description of the events.
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Oh boy was that painful to watch again, lasting emotional impact is a great sign, well done Selebus. I had to go through from the point we first learn of her feelings to the last scene using my bad homie save. The spoiler tells the gist of the entire line of events from finding out about Rin's crush to the end of her event line in the case of betrayal, including what happens if you betray her when there is a divergence from the non-betrayal line. This will tell you all you need to know both about how severe her depression is as well as what happens throughout the event line, including the specific event in question. I went ahead and broke up the text by event for you, that should make it easier to read. I don't normally worry about formatting on forums.
Yeah, that can happen in this game. No, the terminal is not in a 'happy' event. I suggest going into the event tracker and replaying the last 'happy' event and the main event There Is Nothing. You will notice the terminal never comes up in the former, but does in the latter.
Because comics ARE a visual medium, the text doesn't tell you what is going on in most scenes and rarely conveys most of the important information. Visual novels, however, convey ALL the important information in the text.
No, there is no such thing as 'too much text' in a work of fiction of ANY medium. In fact, the more text you have, the more information you have, the better you can understand what is going on. The same works with having visual aids like the pictures in a visual novel, they give you further detail that the text often doesn't go into in order to keep the story going at a consistent pace.
Editing is often more about mistakes than too many words and in only one case does editing involve a slimming down of the word count, when there is a maximum word count limit involved.
ALL text in a visual novel or any other text medium serves a purpose or it would not be there.
No, the visuals in a visual novel are merely to aid the player in understanding what is going on, hence visual aid. If it doesn't do anything for you, that's on you, collective you, not personal you. It isn't the text's fault that it doesn't do something for you.
No, it is NEVER time to 'tweak things around' just because someone says it. It is ALWAYS time to follow your vision as the developer and your vision alone. 'Tweaking things' based on feedback in the manner you are suggesting is how a lot of games, visual novel or otherwise, end up with feature and content creep through requests and such and then get so tedious the deeloper simply abandons them with half-finished content still in place. There is a time and a place for tweaks, that time is when a bug or typo is found and that place is whatever line it is on in the code.
No, I don't break my replies down, except maybe some formatting on occasion for reading purposes, because I always reply with exactly what I want to say. No more, no less.
It is a betrayal because you trampled all over her feelings, regardless of if you knew about them. Also, in the event where the warnings are given, even player Sensei states that her crush is blatantly obvious. You had a chance to be warned and didn't take it. There are two VERY distinct lines in one of Rin's events that specifically say DO NOT touch Chika. Not word for word, but you get the idea.
1) The only way to get this path is to purposely skip the warnings Rin gives you, collective you, not personal. You made the decision to skip the warning, so it is still you who bears the blame.
2) Yes there is, Rin's warnings that you, collective you, chose to skip.
3) Yes, you, collective you, made the choice to proceed with the one thing Rin asked you not to do in the one event you decided to skip. (Selebus Here's an idea, I don't know how viable it is at this point, but maybe disable rollback so the player cannot simply undo their decision without the drastic measure of reloading?)
4) Because you, collective you, skipped the event where she said these things, still on you because you didn't read the warnings.
5) The outcome that is in is the same both in real life and in the game, you, collective you, failed to heed the warnings, you proceeded to trample all over a young maiden's heart, and you damaged her ability to trust the people around her. Think of this, what if she goes into yet another episode of delirium down the line? She has now learned she can't trust the people around her, so she doesn't know where to turn and possibly turns to the one thing she can't take back in this scenario. Nobody has the ability to stop her all because you betrayed her.
Yes, the intent is to be unfair, because that's how it is in the real world. That's just how these types of things work. Granted that's also just how things work in the Denpa genre. Yes, we are meant to fail, though I do intend to beat the system in that regard.
I'm not so sure #3 is a bad homie situation. You didn't tell the person, but you did break off the relationship, which would allow them to get with the one they love if they choose to pursue them. That sounds more like a noble sacrifice after a mistake was made to me.
I'm still worried about Rin going into another delirium episode. Anyway, merry Christmas to you as well and to everyone here. Praise be to all who walk the righteous path of HOPE-Sama, and since it is officially one of the days involved in a holiday of peace and goodwill, the heretics who deny him as well. (I really should probably stop this, I'm starting to sound like a freaking cultist, but I'm having so much fun and it has my creative juices flowing. I was able to pump out two handwritten musical parts last night because of all this HOPE-Sama talk.)So I'm here baking cookies for Santa, and instead of thinking of delicious baked goods or Christmas cheer, I'm sitting here worrying about Makoto and cursingmyselfSensei for being such a shit friend.
Fuck you, Selebus, and your masterfully written characters and narrative. Also, Merry Christmas Selebus (and everyone here)! HOPE your holiday season is full ofclockscrucifixionexistential dreadwatermelonshappiness and blessings! Praise be
- Dec 1, 2017
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Still disagree on the betrayal but at the risk of dragging this out to infinity, I'll say the last of my peace on this.
With the logic you are using, you shouldn't pursue ANY of the girls at all. Were there hints that something was off with Rin? Sure. But I read every word and did not pick up on Rin having feelings for Chika. Does that make my oblivious? Maybe. But people don't always pick up on hints or read them in the right way. That shouldn't make me a bad homie because I didn't read the clues right.
If you avoid Chika simply because someone, somewhere might also be into her, keeping in mind, we don't know Rin is yet, then you can apply that logic to ALL of the girls. There are hints that Ayane is into Ami and vice versa. If the game reveals that down the road, are we bad friends to Ami and Ayane now too? Even though that can't possibly be known to us yet? (putting aside of course, the whole "hiding relationship thing", cause that makes the sensai a bad uncle and friend regardless)
If you want to call it a mistake? Fine. I can live with calling it a mistake. But betrayal? Betrayal requires knowing you are hurting someone. If I have no clue that Rin likes Chika and I proceed, I don't have the knowledge. Does it still hurt her? Sure. But if she can't understand that I had no idea she felt that way at the time, then honestly, she's the bad homie, not me. Luckily, Rin is the type of person that even if you did know ahead of time, she doesn't cut you out. So I think she would be understanding if you didn't know about her feelings before went further with Chika.
Final thought. If you extend this out to it's logical conclusion. You should never pursue anyone in real life ever. Cause one of your friends or one of your future friends might have already met them and has feelings for them. And if you pursue them, you're a "bad homie" to them cause you betrayed them, even though there was no possible way to know you were doing it.
Anyway, like I said, that's my final peace on the matter. If you still disagree, that's cool. In the grand scheme, doesn't really matter.
Edit: Just did a double check and you can get the Schadenfreude event without having talked to Rin AT ALL. So if I focused on Chika from the start, there aren't even hints to interpret.
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No, that is incorrect. You SHOULD pursue them, just not when they aren't willing to be pursued or are being pursued by someone other than you. Rin was trying to get with Chika, she specifically tells you not to go after Chika for this reason, you, collective you, ignored her and went after Chika anyway or ignored her blatantly obvious crush on a very specific young lady and pursued Chika anyway. Events pertaining to this issue include almost every Rin event from Rin's Secret until the beach event ends with Cafe Mocha being the most important event of the bunch prior to the beach event because you are warned TWICE in that event alone AND it tells you who she's got a crush on, not necessarily in that order.
No, Ami is into you, probably part of her issues stemming from the loss of her parents, as is Ayane, the only character so far that has a known love interest that isn't you is Rin. There will be no hints for Ami and Ayane because they are already known. Miku isn't confident enough in herself to pursue a relationship, neither is Futaba. Kirin and Karin are into you. Maki, Haruka, and Sara are into you. Yumi isn't into anyone and is actually openly hostile, more toward you, but to practically everyone except Chika, who she considers a friend at best. Chinami, let's not go there. Kaori has shown zero interest in anyone at all and is just plain weird. You're already in a relationship with Makoto. Maya keeps her distance from everyone emotionally. Molly and Tsuneyo have shown no interest with subtle hints leading toward an interest popping up for you.
It doesn't just hint in Cafe Mocha that Rin doesn't want you picking up Chika before she can try or that she is in love with Chika, it outright tells you both of these. If you didn't get it, you weren't paying sufficient attention, still making you a bad homie. Your logic also doesn't account for the numerous times 'don't do Schadenfreude before the beach event is done' has been said in this thread, a number of them by me.
When someone has feelings so blatantly obvious that the main character even openly states it, the only way you can't know is to not pay attention. That still means a betrayal. The information is readily available in the event Cafe Mocha, it is the player's responsibility to trigger Cafe Mocha in order to learn this information. Disregarding it shows intent to ignore the warnings contained within, whether you , collective you, mean to go for Chika as a bad homie on purpose, there is no reason to do this, or you decide to ignore Rin as a character. It was still you, collective you, that made the decision that led to her getting hurt when you could have just as easily found the information to avoid hurting her. Both the knowledge that she likes Chika and the warnings not to pursue Chika are in that event.
Rin would be understanding, hence why she holds herslef back after the beach event, seriously, she fires so many shots at you for the betrayal, yet she doesn't go any further when she clearly wants to wring player Sensei's neck for it. Of course, that still means you're out of the running for future love interests. Bad homies don't get the love interest treatment, we're lucky she's willing to give us the time of day.
The logic in your final thought doesn't hold up. In real life, no, there is no way to know, but there are ways to fix the situation and earn back good homie status. In this, you are given every piece of information necessary to know what to avoid and for how long in one single very specific event, Cafe Mocha.
On your edit, we've already established Schadenfreude is possible with no Rin events, this is because it is a Chika event, not a Rin event. Character events are ONLY locked by the affection level of the character they are listed under with very few exceptions for interactivity between other characters' events. Schadenfreude has already been established to be of the standard, affection level only variety. Cafe Mocha is also of the affection only variety, it only requires the player to get Rin up to the necessary affection.
- Nov 3, 2019
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I'm enjoying the very articulate and well-written arguments between alex2011 and Drew Anderson...
When the game's well-written and complicating, the arguments about the game become sophisticated as well...
When the game's well-written and complicating, the arguments about the game become sophisticated as well...
- Sep 5, 2017
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It assumes that players play the game in "right" order. But how should they know what it is?
Forget any warnings in this thread. I for one found this game few days ago, and I can assure you that I didn't start by first reading 200+ pages thread about it (that would be crazy for multiple reasons, no one ever did that).
It's actually very easy to do it wrong. While I may have misread or misunderstood something, I don't even think there was clear indication that you have to pursue all girls to progress. Without being aware of that (actually, I'd say always), the natural choice is to (first) focus on the ones I like most. If it happens to be Chika before Rin, then there's none of those no-matter-how-much-obvious warnings, until it's too late. In other words, if it's so easily missable, can you really blame the player for that?
And it's not the only thing like that. I had to resort to looking at walkthough after about 200 in-game days, because I run out of ideas what else I could do. It turned out it was the probably quite early "The Letter T" event, it just didn't occur to me to select the choice leading to it. I don't know what's the soonest you can trigger it, but since another event that depends on it is listed at day 102+, it took me at least double time. And I don't think it was entirely my fault either. Sure, it was me who missed it, but there's quite a lot of choices, so it can easily happen when hunting for the one that moves you forward, when you have no idea in advance when and where it will be.
I'm not really complaining, just saying that things may be obvious to hardcore fans who know the game inside and out, but not so much to everyone else.