Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[Jaxxyr]

To be clear though, I don't think that's what Selebus is doing, and they have every right to feel how they feel, and to voice those feelings, I simply hope that they don't lose sight of all the love and support available here, because it does come with a dose of depression and hate from an ugly side of this community that we sometimes like to ignore a bit too much.

I see where you're coming from and I do think that Selebus has every right to voice but the tone was rather harsh. And as i mentioned I am glad for what we all have here. People made dreams possible after all. But please don't put people in the ugliest corner for voicing there opinion on something controversial. I mean I said it, at least, more or less polite.

Yeah I'm getting called out for my fast food tier list on the Discord rn so I'm a little heated and took it out on you, I'm sorry

I'm actually staring at your reply for 5 minutes and try to put my finger on if you're sincere or not.
But if you are, all good man, thanks for at least reading my rant.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Nah they all trippin' because I put White Castle in S Tier

Man, I haven't even seen a White Castle in person in *uncomfortably large number* years, much less tasted their food. Always been curious, thogh, especially after Harold and Kumar.

 

[zekemckillip]

Nah they all trippin' because I put White Castle in S Tier

Oof... White Castle as S-tier? No wonder this game is so whack. You're clearly crazy!

Man, I haven't even seen a White Castle in person in *uncomfortably large number* years, much less tasted their food. Always been curious, thogh, especially after Harold and Kumar.

Yeah, it's actually been a long while since I've seen a White Castle, probably over a decade. That said, I don't remember being impressed with their food last time I had it.

 

[JC02321]

Nah they all trippin' because I put White Castle in S Tier

And the people hated Jesus because he spoke the truth.

 

[alex2011]

Alright... Wow, can't believe I'm wading into this, because yeah, hornet's nest. I think even Selebus agrees with your basic point, but what you're missing, is that Selebus offers this game, completely free, just 2 weeks delayed, so that he can incentivize Patreon support. He isn't against the free distribution of his hard work, because he gets that he's earning a living developing this game now, and I'm sure he's grateful of the opportunity. Imagine however, that every other week you took all the product in your store and gave it away for free, then restocked the shelves with new product, and people continued to vandalize your store and steal your products... That would be a big bummer.

To Selebus, please keep heart. "The only thing necessary for the Triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." I wish people wouldn't leak the Patreon version of this game, but sites like F95zone are necessary to navigate the works of other devs that aren't as good as you. We all know that there are devs that don't release free versions on their works, and then just disappear with thousands of dollars in funding. Vaporware was an issue for a long time, and it still is, and sites like this combat that. Unfortunately, that promotes opinions of entitlement, and good people, good devs, get abused by those with a devil-may-care attitude. I hope you know that this community does support you, and we hope you'll continue to join us in discussion of your masterful work of art.

Well freaking said

Ok, I'll start by answering this first. I did mention that I saw the game request thread. That's it.


You and I can only speak for ourselves. If you don't feel pressured, that's good. But there may be people who feel guilt tripped but I probably went to far there. But look at the request. It's radio silent there. It seems to me that everyone feels guilty, can wait for the free release or the game isn't that popular, but the activity in this thread paints a different picture. I could dig out some old request threads and compare them but I really don't want to.


Just because Illusion won't sue anyone does not mean it's legal now. I didn't follow the whole developments regarding Fakku's attempts, but i wouldn't go there saying that Illusion told them to 'knock it off'. Their

You must be registered to see the links

still state that any other use than playing is prohibited. That's why I said 'grey zone', making a game out of 'stolen' assets won't protect it from piracy. But that's an assumption, the topic is too complex and I'm not a lawyer. And even if you are one, I don't think that you're authorized in every country.


Yeah, I may have exaggerated there. But I think getting snappy at everyone isn't the right way. It's not the wrong either, especially trying to protect your work.


I didn't say that he doesn't deserve this nor that he doesn't work his ass off.

Anyway, I said what I had to say. You did aswell. As I mentioned the whole thing is rather complex, so I tried to keep it simple. My point is, for me, it feels wrong to lunge at anyone requesting things on a site where requesting things is a core feature. Legality aside, we have quite the nice ecosystem here and I hope it stays that way.

Ok, I'll start by answering this first. I did mention that I saw the game request thread. That's it.

And? I still see no reason for the rant or any reason to return because of a different thread entirely.

You and I can only speak for ourselves. If you don't feel pressured, that's good. But there may be people who feel guilt tripped but I probably went to far there. But look at the request. It's radio silent there. It seems to me that everyone feels guilty, can wait for the free release or the game isn't that popular, but the activity in this thread paints a different picture. I could dig out some old request threads and compare them but I really don't want to.

Actually, I know of several people in this thread who have taken it upon themselves to abstain from the leaks, and have specifically commented as much, so I don't have to stick to speaking for myself. Yeah, I see Selebus is pissed, so what, he has every right to be. Just because this is a piracy site does not excuse any given thread from incurring the rants of the developers the site steals from.

Just because Illusion won't sue anyone does not mean it's legal now. I didn't follow the whole developments regarding Fakku's attempts, but i wouldn't go there saying that Illusion told them to 'knock it off'. Their

You must be registered to see the links

still state that any other use than playing is prohibited. That's why I said 'grey zone', making a game out of 'stolen' assets won't protect it from piracy. But that's an assumption, the topic is too complex and I'm not a lawyer. And even if you are one, I don't think that you're authorized in every country.

I never said it was legal nor did I say anything about protection from piracy because of assets from a different game. What I said was Illusion specifically won't go after anyone for using Illusion assets in a different game, they've specifically said this in the past, so no lawyer is necessary.

Yeah, I may have exaggerated there. But I think getting snappy at everyone isn't the right way. It's not the wrong either, especially trying to protect your work.

You DEFINITELY exaggerated on this one, he has done nothing more than make valid complaints. Getting snappy when his game was stolen, yeah, again, I would as well. Having things stolen from you SHOULD make you angry. I'm actually surprised he's not showing even more anger toward us than he has.

I didn't say that he doesn't deserve this nor that he doesn't work his ass off.

Anyway, I said what I had to say. You did aswell. As I mentioned the whole thing is rather complex, so I tried to keep it simple. My point is, for me, it feels wrong to lunge at anyone requesting things on a site where requesting things is a core feature. Legality aside, we have quite the nice ecosystem here and I hope it stays that way.

I didn't say you said he didn't, I was making a point that your statement was not necessarily correct. It doesn't feel wrong to be upset by things being stolen from you, as is the case every time someone leaks from Selebus.

This is where I agree with you. I think it was a bit out of line to say Selebus has childish tantrums, but you already acknowledged that. And I get what you're saying. Nobody wants to think that them requesting a game because they can't afford it will be the straw that kills off a great game early, and too many devs have already wielded that excuse like a 2 ton warhammer.

To be clear though, I don't think that's what Selebus is doing, and they have every right to feel how they feel, and to voice those feelings, I simply hope that they don't lose sight of all the love and support available here, because it does come with a dose of depression and hate from an ugly side of this community that we sometimes like to ignore a bit too much.

It's actually a lot heavier than the people outside of development realize. It doesn't take much to disrupt a developer's entire development process through financial issues like loss of subscribers resulting in the diminished income that would then result in having to take time out of development for a separate job, which then has the very real potential to cause game death.

Then there's another aspect I failed to touch on previously, the mental aspect. Having something stolen from them causes stress and that stress can lead to health issues, reduction of will to continue development, or both, possibly leading to game death because the will to continue is gone or the developer has become too physically unwell. This stress is, of course, not unique to this case, it would result from any theft.

I, too, hope Selebus realizes there are still people who care here. It would be a real shame if he lost sight of that.

Fuck, overlooked that, my bad. And yeah, maybe I should so I can relate better to this stuff.


I wouldn't call that mature, bro. But yeah, I said I may have exaggerated but instantly calling me a keyboard warrior for stating some stuff (with sources) isn't really legit either. But that depends on the definition of keyboard warrior.

I would give it a try, seriously, it's actually quite fun and gives you a different perspective of things in these matters.

Yeah I'm getting called out for my fast food tier list on the Discord rn so I'm a little heated and took it out on you, I'm sorry

Ouch, have to watch out for Discord sometimes.

I'm reading this as "people upset I ranked Whataburger over In n Out" or "people upset I ranked In n Out over Whataburger."

Probably because 9 out of 10 conversations involving fast food and Texans wind up being exactly this argument in my experience.

That's too funny, I don't even have either of those over here, so I've got no stake in that argument. Again, have to watch out for Discord sometimes.

Nah they all trippin' because I put White Castle in S Tier

You didn't

I see where you're coming from and I do think that Selebus has every right to voice but the tone was rather harsh. And as i mentioned I am glad for what we all have here. People made dreams possible after all. But please don't put people in the ugliest corner for voicing there opinion on something controversial. I mean I said it, at least, more or less polite.


I'm actually staring at your reply for 5 minutes and try to put my finger on if you're sincere or not.
But if you are, all good man, thanks for at least reading my rant.

As is the emotion that the request brought about, harsh cause, harsh effect. You were polite about it, indeed, and thank you for not just coming in here guns blazing over it. You don't want to know how many times I've seen that. Discord can be a little...sensitive about things, so I wouldn't rule out Selebus being completely serious about that.

Oof... White Castle as S-tier? No wonder this game is so whack. You're clearly crazy!


Yeah, it's actually been a long while since I've seen a White Castle, probably over a decade. That said, I don't remember being impressed with their food last time I had it.

Hey, to be fair, I would put them at S as well.

 

[SecretUser95]

I've got to say, threads as crazy as this one are rare. From horny to theories to moral debates about piracy, this thread has it all.

Other than that, Selebus, congratulations. This game is so good that it gave me a nightmare, and I dream very rarely. Reading 16 part 2 just before bed probably helped. PRAISE BE!

 

[Lolicon Kami]

Oh boy, I know I'm gonna stir up a hornet's nest here but I feel this needs to be stated:

1) True. You are objectively right.

2) Again, true. You are objectively right.

3) Please stop treating piracy all the same. It’s one thing to pirate a game because you can’t wait a fucking 2 weeks for the official version to be released, and it’s a wholly different situation from pirating off of professional game companies that never release their games, or indie creators that take months to release a single damn update to the public. Maybe it's not guilt that's keeping people from wanting LiL leaked, but instead their sense of morality stopping them from bashing a dev who freely released their game in 2 weeks.

I don’t want to assume, but have you checked what kind of pirating Selebus was supporting for each of his games? Have you actually confirmed if he was impatient enough to not wait two weeks for a public update, or if was he pirating because of other reasons? If you have, please send me an excel file or some other medium that has compiled all the information. I would be happy to look at it.

Additionally, although piracy is common on this site (as you have mentioned), just because one comments on this site does not mean that they are pirating. Some people come here for community. Have you taken the time to divide Selebus’s posts into those that are for pirating, and those are for the community? Do you objectively have a grasp of how much Selebus has pirated?

On this same not, using Illusion's games to create assets is absolutely not the same as pirating a game. I do not know how you came to that logic. Why do I say so?

1) Because all the models featured in LiL was not made by Illusion, but rather by Selebus. Thus, though it is a grey zone, it is more akin to me using Miku Miku Dance to make my own vocaloid videos, or using Photoshop to edit my own photos. In any case, although the program I used is not my own, the final product is definitively my creation.

2) You miss the topic of how Selebus paid for Koikatsu as a creation engine. Pirates did not pay Selebus for LiL.

3) You also miss the topic of how pirates are simply leaching pleasure off of Selebus with no hard work involved when they pirate LiL. Selebus, on the other hand, is working his tail off using Koikatsu to make an actual game.

4) A great bulk of what makes LiL special is the storytelling. The narration. The plot. That’s why there’s so few Koikatsu games that are popular – @Selebus’s success hinges on his writing ability, which in no way is owned by Illusion, or anyone for that matter. To steal that is not analogous to using Koikatsu as a creation engine

Additionally, one can see that Selebus is not making infantile tantrums – if you analyze his language, his case against pirating is based on

You must be registered to see the links

. He explicitly refutes the point that "pirating is good" and he also supports his stance using data from Graphtreon that shows his income going down in the months where his games are leaked right off the bat. You, on the other hand, rank the lowest on this pyramid as you use the name-calling technique – basically trying to dismiss Selebus’s credibility by saying “your game sucks because MC is named sensei.”

Additionally, if you are not invested in this game, and this is a logical analysis as you have not played it since 0.2, why do you appear now to tear down at Selebus? One can only assume you are doing this to assuage your feelings of inadequacy and your jealousy for those who are successful.

Finally, Selebus, although I really don’t need to tell you this, just note that for ever insensitive critic that tries to tear you down, there are at least 3 fans who have your back. I just don’t want to see you go into hikikomori mode like Arc from Corrupted Kingdoms did.

It’s hard to believe, but because people kept on pirating his game, Arc went from a very active dev on F95zone who listened to all of the fan comments, to a reclusive shut-in who only engages his patrons on Patreon. I don’t want that happening to any of the great devs on this site

Have a great afternoon (or whatever time zone you are in), community.

Well freaking said

Well said. Also, if anyone's interested, it is true that some people abstain for the leaks – one person being myself. I can't own a credit card right now due to various reasons in my life, I don't have the means to support the dev, so I stay straight and gratefully enjoy whatever I can get for free from this game

 

[alex2011]

I've got to say, threads as crazy as this one are rare. From horny to theories to moral debates about piracy, this thread has it all.

Other than that, Selebus, congratulations. This game is so good that it gave me a nightmare, and I dream very rarely. Reading 16 part 2 just before bed probably helped. PRAISE BE!

Indeed, then there's the above mentions of an arguemnt over where on a tier list certain burger restaurants should be, had me laughing for a solid ten minutes, the longest I've ever been unable to stop myself.

I have heard others mention nightmares induced by playing the game, likely too close to bed time, though I haven't experienced this myself. I'm also a rare dreamer and it is more like a few seconds of black to me before I wake to a room full of light from the morning sun. I find it interesting that a game like this can have such an effect.

1) True. You are objectively right.

2) Again, true. You are objectively right.

3) Please stop treating piracy all the same. It’s one thing to pirate a game because you can’t wait a fucking 2 weeks for the official version to be released, and it’s a wholly different situation from pirating off of professional game companies that never release their games, or indie creators that take months to release a single damn update to the public. Maybe it's not guilt that's keeping people from wanting LiL leaked, but instead their sense of morality stopping them from bashing a dev who freely released their game in 2 weeks.

I don’t want to assume, but have you checked what kind of pirating Selebus was supporting for each of his games? Have you actually confirmed if he was impatient enough to not wait two weeks for a public update, or if was he pirating because of other reasons? If you have, please send me an excel file or some other medium that has compiled all the information. I would be happy to look at it.

Additionally, although piracy is common on this site (as you have mentioned), just because one comments on this site does not mean that they are pirating. Some people come here for community. Have you taken the time to divide Selebus’s posts into those that are for pirating, and those are for the community? Do you objectively have a grasp of how much Selebus has pirated?

On this same not, using Illusion's games to create assets is absolutely not the same as pirating a game. I do not know how you came to that logic. Why do I say so?

1) Because all the models featured in LiL was not made by Illusion, but rather by Selebus. Thus, though it is a grey zone, it is more akin to me using Miku Miku Dance to make my own vocaloid videos, or using Photoshop to edit my own photos. In any case, although the program I used is not my own, the final product is definitively my creation.

2) You miss the topic of how Selebus paid for Koikatsu as a creation engine. Pirates did not pay Selebus for LiL.

3) You also miss the topic of how pirates are simply leaching pleasure off of Selebus with no hard work involved when they pirate LiL. Selebus, on the other hand, is working his tail off using Koikatsu to make an actual game.

4) A great bulk of what makes LiL special is the storytelling. The narration. The plot. That’s why there’s so few Koikatsu games that are popular – @Selebus’s success hinges on his writing ability, which in no way is owned by Illusion, or anyone for that matter. To steal that is not analogous to using Koikatsu as a creation engine

Additionally, one can see that Selebus is not making infantile tantrums – if you analyze his language, his case against pirating is based on

You must be registered to see the links

. He explicitly refutes the point that "pirating is good" and he also supports his stance using data from Graphtreon that shows his income going down in the months where his games are leaked right off the bat. You, on the other hand, rank the lowest on this pyramid as you use the name-calling technique – basically trying to dismiss Selebus’s credibility by saying “your game sucks because MC is named sensei.”

Additionally, if you are not invested in this game, and this is a logical analysis as you have not played it since 0.2, why do you appear now to tear down at Selebus? One can only assume you are doing this to assuage your feelings of inadequacy and your jealousy for those who are successful.

Finally, Selebus, although I really don’t need to tell you this, just note that for ever insensitive critic that tries to tear you down, there are at least 3 fans who have your back. I just don’t want to see you go into hikikomori mode like Arc from Corrupted Kingdoms did.

It’s hard to believe, but because people kept on pirating his game, Arc went from a very active dev on F95zone who listened to all of the fan comments, to a reclusive shut-in who only engages his patrons on Patreon. I don’t want that happening to any of the great devs on this site

Have a great afternoon (or whatever time zone you are in), community.



Well said. Also, if anyone's interested, it is true that some people abstain for the leaks – one person being myself. I can't own a credit card right now due to various reasons in my life, I don't have the means to support the dev, so I stay straight and gratefully enjoy whatever I can get for free from this game

The different types of piracy is a valid point, I am a necessity only pirate, I only do it when there is no alternative either for monetary or availability reasons. Example, Illusion, the maker of Koikatsu, which is what was used for graphics in LiL, does NOT normally release to the west. They have a whole four titles out of an extremely long list of games that have gotten an official release, but the ones that have aren't even their best work. Their best work, Artificial Academy 2, has NEVER gotten a western release despite its popularity and Illusion is well aware of the modding community behind it in the west, that's why they probed into the western market using Fakku for Honey Select 1 and Steam for Koikatsu, AI Shoujo, and Honey Select 2 with a potential fourth game for their Steam releases in the next project, Koikatsu Sunshine.

 

[BlackDays]

The different types of piracy is a valid point, I am a necessity only pirate, I only do it when there is no alternative either for monetary or availability reasons. Example, Illusion, the maker of Koikatsu, which is what was used for graphics in LiL, does NOT normally release to the west. They have a whole four titles out of an extremely long list of games that have gotten an official release, but the ones that have aren't even their best work. Their best work, Artificial Academy 2, has NEVER gotten a western release despite its popularity and Illusion is well aware of the modding community behind it in the west, that's why they probed into the western market using Fakku for Honey Select 1 and Steam for Koikatsu, AI Shoujo, and Honey Select 2 with a potential fourth game for their Steam releases in the next project, Koikatsu Sunshine.

I thought that was a government/law thing that such companys like Illusion weren't allowed to publish outside of Japan. And " Originally, its games were not allowed to be sold or used outside Japan, and official support was only given in Japanese and for use in Japan. (wiki)" confirms this i guess. Or it was just their own policy until recently.

 

[JMccovery]

Nah they all trippin' because I put White Castle in S Tier

You just want to see the world burn.

I'd like White Castle more, if I didn't have to travel 3+ hours to get it fresh. Yes, I know we have Krystal's here, but c'mon man, BROWN MUSTARD!

 

[alex2011]

I thought that was a government/law thing that such companys like Illusion weren't allowed to publish outside of Japan. And " Originally, its games were not allowed to be sold or used outside Japan, and official support was only given in Japanese and for use in Japan. (wiki)" confirms this i guess. Or it was just their own policy until recently.

Nope, they are actively doing so now. It used to be that way, but the laws are slowly changing.

You just want to see the world burn.

I'd like White Castle more, if I didn't have to travel 3+ hours to get it fresh. Yes, I know we have Krystal's here, but c'mon man, BROWN MUSTARD!

Same, but I'm still with Selebus on that ranking.

 

[Cerpin]

I don't really know what White Castle is, or why it arouses such feelings.

I may not understand the world as well as I thought I did.

Isn't Texas just BBQ, steaks and burnt ends? Oh and queso;I understand Texans get very worked up about queso. Are you allowed to eat other foods there?

 

[mannice431]

It’s hard to believe, but because people kept on pirating his game, Arc went from a very active dev on F95zone who listened to all of the fan comments, to a reclusive shut-in who only engages his patrons on Patreon.

I remember he stopped slowly coming here as often, but is that really why that's the case? Seems kinda dumb.

What, did he think he was the exception to the rule and everyone would wait the alloted time?

 

[lardtree90]

Nah they all trippin' because I put White Castle in S Tier

If there wasn't enough evidence that you're master troll, this should confirm it you absolute lunatic.

 

[PeterXHunter]

Okay, so where will i begin this? Oh! Okay, i will begin from this :

1. Why are the number 3 on dorm 3 are inverted on weekdays, but get back to normal on weekend? Is that intentional?

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

2. Did.....did Io's cat died?

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

3. Nothing is real, except for Makoto slap, HAHAHA! You kind of deserved it Sensei.....

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[mannice431]

1. Why are the number 3 on dorm 3 are inverted on weekdays, but get back to normal on weekend? Is that intentional?

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I totally failed to notice that, that's weird.

 

[alex2011]

I don't really know what White Castle is, or why it arouses such feelings.

I may not understand the world as well as I thought I did.

Isn't Texas just BBQ, steaks and burnt ends? Oh and queso;I understand Texans get very worked up about queso. Are you allowed to eat other foods there?

White Castle is a burger restaurant to put it simply andone of if not the best out there that happens to be a chain restaurant, a restaurant that has multiple locations in multiple areas.

As for the Texas part, that is a stereotype, it's actually not that much different from the rest of the US once you get over how spread out everything is. I've actually never heard the queso part, that's news to me.

Okay, so where will i begin this? Oh! Okay, i will begin from this :

1. Why are the number 3 on dorm 3 are inverted on weekdays, but get back to normal on weekend? Is that intentional?

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

2. Did.....did Io's cat died?

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

3. Nothing is real, except for Makoto slap, HAHAHA! You kind of deserved it Sensei.....

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

1. I'm just now noticing that.

2. I'm still bitter about Io and Uta interrupting, though also glad they did for Miku's sake.

3. Yes and no, she walked in at the worst possible moment and automatically assumed he was involved, he could have easily been responding to Miku just as Makoto did in this moment since we all know how she reacts in situations like that.

 

[barglenarglezous]

I don't really know what White Castle is, or why it arouses such feelings.

I may not understand the world as well as I thought I did.

Isn't Texas just BBQ, steaks and burnt ends? Oh and queso;I understand Texans get very worked up about queso. Are you allowed to eat other foods there?

Queso, Tex-Mex, and MEAT. Doesn't matter the animal, doesn't matter how it's prepared. Just...all the meat.

Whataburger is our regional fast food chain, and they're nasty-ass greaseburgers, but they are GLORIOUS, especially when you're drunk. Every bar district has one nearby, and they're all open 24 hours for that very reason. They do their best business after last call.

Edit: And Texans and Californians CONSTANTLY try to compare Whataburger to In n Out and put them in competition with one another, even though one's a greaseburger and the other's a more traditional hamburger, and really, they're both highly overrated, so most of this is just the Texas/CA rivalry playiing out via proxy.

 

[Marphey]

I can't be the only one who spend more then 5 minutes listening to main menu song

 

[BlackDays]

So i saw people here like pictures. And i had one in pocket for some time now i'd just like to share.
It's a reimagining of a person/concept/machine we all know and are interested in. This picture might however change how you'll conceive certain parts of the story. Oh and for this whole purpose i adepted to Selebus drawing skills so, um, be warned?
Oh and i recently made the mistake to react to comments to my postings too early,
so i might not respond at all this time. <= There is something a link buried underneath your feet in my sig.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.