Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

4.20 star(s) 296 Votes
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PervySageKem

PervySageKem

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Apr 12, 2020
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I'm interested in giving this a shot, but I read a few reviews and got a little scared. Is it true that there are a bunch of girls that simply do not like the MC but are kinda forced/shoehorned into being involved with him?

The suicidal girl's crush being stolen sounds fucking horrible.
 
barglenarglezous

barglenarglezous

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Sep 5, 2020
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PervySageKem said:
I'm interested in giving this a shot, but I read a few reviews and got a little scared. Is it true that there are a bunch of girls that simply do not like the MC but are kinda forced/shoehorned into being involved with him?

The suicidal girl's crush being stolen sounds fucking horrible.
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None of the girls who are romantically or sexually involved with MC are forced or shoehorned into it. Groomed and manipulated happens in abundance, however. MC is NOT a good person, and has disassociative episodes where he gets even worse, and there are two moments where the line of consent is very clearly crossed, but that isn't handwaved and each of them is having long-term implications on the narrative and characters.

As for the crush stealing, you have agency on whether or not you pursue the girl before or after she takes her shot, and there are very significant story implications both ways.
 
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PervySageKem

PervySageKem

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Apr 12, 2020
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barglenarglezous said:
None of the girls who are romantically or sexually involved with MC are forced or shoehorned into it. Groomed and manipulated happens in abundance, however. MC is NOT a good person, and has disassociative episodes where he gets even worse, and there are two moments where the line of consent is very clearly crossed, but that isn't handwaved and each of them is having long-term implications on the narrative and characters.

As for the crush stealing, you have agency on whether or not you pursue the girl before or after she takes her shot, and there are very significant story implications both ways.
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Thank you for the answer! Do the girls hate the guy, though? Or do they end up liking him in some way?
 
barglenarglezous

barglenarglezous

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PervySageKem said:
Thank you for the answer! Do the girls hate the guy, though? Or do they end up liking him in some way?
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Putting it behind spoiler text because to go further does get a bit spoilery.

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There is some early content with a few of the girls that does feel a bit forced -- none of them hate the MC, though, they're just progressing into physical intimacy far too quickly. The developer is in the process of rewriting those arcs to progress those stories a bit more naturally like the other girls arcs, and those changes will be added to the game early spring based on the current timetable.
 
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moodle

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Nov 26, 2016
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In addition to what barglenarglezous says, which is all absolutely correct, while the girls do end up liking him we are repeatedly told through character dialogue that people in this setting likes the MC far more and far faster than they should, and they don't quite know why. It's meant to be weird and unsettling how he becomes emotionally crucial for so many people so quickly, though at time of writing we don't know why this has happened or if there's anything to be done about it.
 
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ansc

ansc

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Jan 16, 2018
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I would be much more understanding of the constant misunderstandings due to lack of reading if they weren't being asked in regards to a visual novel that has more words in it than any novel besides maybe In Search of Lost Time (which has around 1.3 million).
 
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ansc

ansc

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Jan 16, 2018
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"indeed- too many words - too few events"

Perhaps we could agree that there is a general overvaluing of wordcount in the script but I think the problem in regards to events isnt a lack of them, but too small a proportion of meaningful plot-driving events.

Selebus made it clear that his goal is to give all the girls a full story, and with there being 20 of them the main plot has slowed considerably so there can be time for that.

I don't think it's ideal- it drops the pacing thus reducing the mad Dionysian energy that makes the game interesting in the first place. And I just don't think there are enough novel events to equally flesh out all 20 girls (I'm trying to think of any author that could do that well and I come up short).

But then again, it's not like the game has any competition besides playing one of the denpa games that inspired it.

(Suba-Hibi, Cross Channel, You and Me and Her. I think that's most of the ones Selebus mentioned.)

So, for the people that like what this game is selling, it has more or less a captive audience as long as the action is rising, even if slowly, and story beats do not start to be repeated in any obvious way.
 
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crustlord12

crustlord12

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ansc said:
"indeed- too many words - too few events"

Perhaps we could agree that there is a general overvaluing of wordcount in the script but I think the problem in regards to events isnt a lack of them, but too small a proportion of meaningful plot-driving events.

Selebus made it clear that his goal is to give all the girls a full story, and with there being 20 of them the main plot has slowed considerably so there can be time for that.

I don't think it's ideal- it drops the pacing thus reducing the mad Dionysian energy that makes the game interesting in the first place. And I just don't think there are enough novel events to equally flesh out all 20 girls (I'm trying to think of any author that could do that well and I come up short).

But then again, it's not like the game has any competition besides playing one of the denpa games that inspired it.

(Suba-Hibi, Cross Channel, You and Me and Her. I think that's most of the ones Selebus mentioned.)

So, for the people that like what this game is selling, it has more or less a captive audience as long as the action is rising, even if slowly, and story beats do not start to be repeated in any obvious way.
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I was thinking something similar today. Still love the game, but it having a ton of words doesn't necessarily mean it's good (I'm not saying it's bad, because it IS good, but for more than just having more words than the bible or whatever). If you can say something with 1000 words that you could also say with 100 words and not lose the meaning or power behind it, well, brevity is the soul of wit

In any case, I'm still enjoying the ride, I'm still giving Sel money, and I'm still looking forward to where it's all going. But we have characters like Miku who've fallen by the wayside, because there's just so much going on, and I hope we don't lose quality.
 
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PrimeGuy

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Dec 16, 2019
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I'm not as concerned with the overall plot going faster so long as I'm seeing each girl's story progress. There's a lot of stories going on at once, after all, and I'm liking them all! I think what makes things feel drawn out the most is the development process, and that we skip from story to story. The feel of the progress will/would be different if we were playing a complete game, I think.
 
EllisL4D2

EllisL4D2

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Jul 6, 2019
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PrimeGuy said:
I'm not as concerned with the overall plot going faster so long as I'm seeing each girl's story progress. There's a lot of stories going on at once, after all, and I'm liking them all! I think what makes things feel drawn out the most is the development process, and that we skip from story to story. The feel of the progress will/would be different if we were playing a complete game, I think.
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i am concerned for the people asking simple questions in this thread though
 
barglenarglezous

barglenarglezous

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PrimeGuy said:
I'm not as concerned with the overall plot going faster so long as I'm seeing each girl's story progress. There's a lot of stories going on at once, after all, and I'm liking them all! I think what makes things feel drawn out the most is the development process, and that we skip from story to story. The feel of the progress will/would be different if we were playing a complete game, I think.
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The fact that it can be six months between character arc updates makes it feel like the game isn't progressing at all when your favorite character is the one getting very little content over those six months. The recent trend in big events helps mitigate that somewhat, since most of these big events advance most of the girls' arcs, even if only a little bit.

But I definitely think the focus on word count is misguided. Because branching paths exist, a VN is going to have more words than a novel of equivalent length, because some scenes have to be written multiple times to account for various variables. The average player only sees that scene once, though.

Towards the end, when there are FAR more variables being tracked, a single scene may need to be written a dozen or more times. That pads the word count, but it doesn't actually extend the length of the game for the player.
 
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linus.quotes

linus.quotes

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Aug 27, 2021
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"v0.21.5 Part 1 Public
Completely removed:
- All adult content
- Replay system
- Headpats
- Lust names
- Several "MISC" images
- Multiple options on Sensei's PC
- Picture message system
- 1GB+ in file size"

Wait, what's that supposed to mean, actually?
I thought that the +18 version would continue at least on here, I misunderstood something?


EDIT: Nvm I think I've figured it out
 
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4.20 star(s) 296 Votes