desmosome

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Sep 5, 2018
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This is an old discussion but I just caught up with the thread so if you don't want to get into the old stuff again, don't read this...
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The MC is an . This scene was colored from MC's recollection of the events. They don't show this specific scene during her explanation of the events, but the other scenes like the science lab and outdoor party invitation scene looks VERY different from what we see from MC's point of view. It's likely he just saw the scene in this way due to the trauma and rage.
 

Rocc46

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Sep 1, 2020
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The MC is an unreliable narrator. This scene was colored from MC's recollection of the events. They don't show this specific scene during her explanation of the events, but the other scenes like the science lab and outdoor party invitation scene looks VERY different from what we see from MC's point of view. It's likely he just saw the scene in this way due to the trauma and rage.
But they don't look different, we just see them from different perspective. Everything that Mc has seen, the lab thing and the party invitation actually happened. In the lab he couldn't hear them and then he arrived mid conversation when Rachel was talking to the other guy. It's not like he sees things that didn't happen.
From what I remember atleast...
 
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desmosome

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But they don't look different, we just see them from different perspective. Everything that Mc has seen, the lab thing and the party invitation actually happened. In the lab he couldn't hear them and then he arrived mid conversation when Rachel was talking to the other guy. It's not like he sees things that didn't happen.
From what I remember atleast...
Perhaps... maybe that was just the impression I got. Regardless, that kissing scene is ambiguous on purpose. Notice the other hand. It's flailing on the side. The cheek touching could be construed as an attempt to to push his head/neck away. And can we really tell what the whole action is like from one still frame? If you take a picture during any activity it can look quite different than whats actually going on.

The point of making the render so ambiguous is because the players were supposed to feel shitty at that point, like the MC. And later we are supposed to believe her explanation. Getting hung up on that when the dev already said that she didn't cheat seems a bit insecure to me.
 

Rocc46

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Sep 1, 2020
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Perhaps... maybe that was just the impression I got. Regardless, that kissing scene is ambiguous on purpose. Notice the other hand. It's flailing on the side. The cheek touching could be construed as an attempt to to push his head/neck away. And can we really tell what the whole action is like from one still frame? If you take a picture during any activity it can look quite different than whats actually going on.

The point of making the render so ambiguous is because the players


were

supposed to feel shitty at that point, like the MC. And later we

are

supposed to believe her explanation. Getting hung up on that when the dev already said that she didn't cheat seems a bit insecure to me.
That's kind of the point I am trying to make, that one still frame is all we got, if we had more maybe the situation would be different.

That's not what I was trying to argue. I know dev said that she didn't cheat etc. and I believe him but I also understand why some would not. A lot of devs here say one thing and do the other and again, her explanation does not match what we've seen. So I understand why some people just don't believe her. I don't see how that makes someone insecure at all.
 

desmosome

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Rocc46
I get you, but there really isn't a reason to not believe her when 1) The kissing render is not conclusive. 2) She is not untrustworthy. 3) MC believes her. 4) Dev believes her.

Mayonesa
At the risk of reviving this dead horse again, let me try to put this one to rest.

Your MC in the prologue was faithful to Rachel. She is the love of his life. This does not necessarily extend to all woman kind. More importantly, a lot of time has passed. How long? I'm not sure. Like 10 years? People can change. Especially when extreme trauma is involved. This young 18 year old kid killed his mentor, got hunted by the entire police force, forced to flee the country, separated from the love of his life, separated from his bro 4 life, went on to work under some other mobster, quite likely involving lots of criminal activity. Yea, he doesn't have to be the same person that he was in the prologue. He can be on the NTR/sharing path for Danna without breaking his character if you choose to do so.

edit: spoiler tag seemed appropriate
 
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monksims

Active Member
Mar 17, 2019
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Finally something that's fun replying to again. Much appreciated!
I'm glad I could provide something of tiny value with my time. ;)

While I do agree that the introduction feels quite long at the moment, it will be taking up less and less of the game's time and may just be perfect once the game is finalized. I also don't find it odd that it's as detailed as it is. After all, who's to say that it all happened exactly like the MC remembers? He may be paraphrasing or filling in dialogue for scenes he mostly remembers the feelings of. Memory can be a most peculiar thing after all.
I did mention in my piece that this is still in early stages by mentioning 0.2.2. But I wanted to inform the dev that it felt weird to me. It still took me about two or three hours total to go through with the prologue and that's a pretty long time. Of course the past events didn't happen the way MC remembers! :D The beating scene should be blank (or red) because he lost it totally. ;)

On the topic of compression...
I didn't spend time with "compressed" JPGs from but I didn't see any changes in 2560x1440 fullscreen between original PNGs and WEBPs I converted with ImageMagick's convert command using their default settings. I just wanted to let the dev know that there was another image format around that could bring a better compression rate for less loss of image quality. It's ultimately his choice what to do with his art and how to bring it to the masses.


- The backstory is the biggest part of the game right now, I know that. I just had to do the whole thing at once or the missing part would disconnect the prologue from the last part.
I understand you wanted to work it out on "one" session. But it sometimes felt it didn't go anywhere. Especially those awkward silences with both characters giving multiple "..." lines in succession. :D

Here's an idea for future and people restarting the game: Make the prologue skippable by letting the player to make choices in the prologue. That way they don't have to skip all prologue.

- The narrator tag came in other to fill the gap left by the MC itself... One thing is the MC narrating facts of his past... Doing the same in the present though... It just felt strange... Maybe I'll do a poll or something to know better what people’s thoughts on that are.
You do what you want to do with your story and your game. I just wanted to let you know that the narrator felt unnecessary to me as I had just got used to MC narrating (and it felt better because I'm MC in the game). I only want you to get better in writing and the only way to do that is to give you feedback. To me, your renders that are brilliant at best, and I'd like your writing be brilliant as well. If you really like the narrator dude(tte) echoing what happens in characters' thoughts and in your renders, keep him/her. :)

- About the saving tags...
Maybe give us a choice to give our own save description instead? :)

- One of the reasons I was thorough in the prologue is because the characters introduced there aren't just people from MC's past. They will be in his future as well.
Awesome!

- About the size:
You should play around with WEBP too. Who knows if you'll find the answer for the size problem there. Many VNs have switched from JPG to WEBP and from MP4 to WEBM to save space and bandwidth. As I mentioned earlier to Hordragg, I didn't see big differences in image quality between PNG and converted WEBP on my 1440p screen. It has 70% more pixels than 1080p so I should see if there was big differences in image quality.

Keep on going and keep your vision! Keep improving yourself but remember to enjoy!
 

kantigura

Newbie
Mar 17, 2019
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Rocc46
I get you, but there really isn't a reason to not believe her when 1) The kissing render is not conclusive. 2) She is not untrustworthy. 3) MC believes her. 4) Dev believes her.

Mayonesa
At the risk of reviving this dead horse again, let me try to put this one to rest.

Your MC in the prologue was faithful to Rachel. She is the love of his life. This does not necessarily extend to all woman kind. More importantly, a lot of time has passed. How long? I'm not sure. Like 10 years? People can change. Especially when extreme trauma is involved. This young 18 year old kid killed his mentor, got hunted by the entire police force, forced to flee the country, separated from the love of his life, separated from his bro 4 life, went on to work under some other mobster, quite likely involving lots of criminal activity. Yea, he doesn't have to be the same person that he was in the prologue. He can be on the NTR/sharing path for Danna without breaking his character if you choose to do so.

edit: spoiler tag seemed appropriate
22 years have passed MC is 40.
 

Kinky Shop

Life Happened dev.
Game Developer
Jul 8, 2017
242
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This is an old discussion but I just caught up with the thread so if you don't want to get into the old stuff again, don't read this...
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The Dev wants you to believe whatever you want. The ambiguous look of the scene is intended to do just that... I provided you the data I felt you needed, how you compile it is up to you... Don't shoot the messenger. I just didn't set up a breakup forever path because the whole story goes around his love for Rachel (That's what drives the MC to do whatever he's going to do in the present story, that's a given...

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Some details on that pic:
- Her left hand is touching that dude's face;
- Her right hand never touches him, instead it's positioned far from him like he just grabbed her by surprise;
- She is almost breaking her low back;
- The dude's hands are all over her holding her as close as he can;
- Her eyes are open;
- Her lips dows not form a kiss. They are just there open.

That's the data the pic gives you guys at first glance. Now decide yourselves... I made it that way intentionaly by the way.

And Rocc46, thank you for your feedback man.
Hope to hear more from you soon.
 
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Kinky Shop

Life Happened dev.
Game Developer
Jul 8, 2017
242
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I'm getting this error on android when I open the game.Any help pls?
open script, delete that line, save and see what happens... worst than it is right now it will not get...
Android is player made... there is not much I can do about it...
 

Kinky Shop

Life Happened dev.
Game Developer
Jul 8, 2017
242
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I loved the prologue and the emotions it made me feel, It was like being a teenager again with all the insecurities.

About the poll, you should be able to make a poll here on F95, as I dont think many here have a Patreon account.

Thanks for this great escape from my boring life ;)
Thanks M'95.

By doing this game I'm escaping my boring life as well so I get perfectly where you're coming from...
 
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MrFriendly

Officially Dead Inside
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The Dev wants you to believe whatever you want. The ambiguous look of the scene is intended to do just that... I provided you the data I felt you needed, how you compile it is up to you... Don't shoot the messenger. I just didn't set up a breakup forever path because the whole story goes around his love for Rachel (That's what drives the MC to do whatever he's going to do in the present story, that's a given... In the future of the present story you'll have the oportunity to choose if you want her or not. In the prologue which is canon by the way, no...

Some details on that pic:
- Her left hand is touching that dude's face;
- Her right hand never touches him, instead it's positioned far from him like he just grabbed her by surprise;
- She is almost breaking her low back;
- The dude's hands are all over her holding her as close as he can;
- Her eyes are open;
- Her lips dows not form a kiss. They are just there open.

That's the data the pic gives you guys at first glance. Now decide yourselves... I made it that way intentionaly by the way.

And Rocc46, thank you for your feedback man.
Hope to hear more from you soon.
I know, I know... But if her hand wasn't on his cheek I feel like a lot of this heated "discussion" wouldn't have happened. Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know, I mean obviously there is interest in the game so that's good but the pages and pages of back and forth make me wonder.

Of course people could interpret her hand being on his face because she is in the middle of slapping the guy but it seems everyone wants to believe the worst about her based on a single image. I don't understand why so many see one picture of a character being kissed against her will and immediately think the absolute worst about her. She and the MC talked it out and he accepted her version of the events, there shouldn't be anything further. If they can't trust her when the MC does then I also don't understand why they are continuing the play this game.
 
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Kinky Shop

Life Happened dev.
Game Developer
Jul 8, 2017
242
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I know, I know... But if her hand wasn't on his cheek I feel like a lot of this heated "discussion" wouldn't have happened. Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know, I mean obviously there is interest in the game so that's good but the pages and pages of back and forth make me wonder.

Of course people could interpret her hand being on his face because she is in the middle of slapping the guy but it seems everyone wants to believe the worst about her based on a single image. I don't understand why so many see one picture of a character being kissed against her will and immediately think the absolute worst about her. She and the MC talked it out and he accepted her version of the events, there shouldn't be anything further. If they can't trust her when the MC does then I also don't understand why they are continuing the play this game.
That was a Nice discussion and a valid one.
But humanity is bound to see the worst in whatever whenever it's possible. That's just how we are built... Sadly...
 

desmosome

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Sep 5, 2018
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now for some speculation... I feel like our homeboy Anderson will turn into an antagonist of sorts. MC is obviously quite a big timer now in the criminal organization. What has Anderson been up to? Probably climbing his own criminal ladder back at home. Maybe there will be some beef between the groups and the old friends have to become reluctant enemies. This is a pretty common scenario in TV/movies right?

That brings us to Rachel. What has SHE been doing? She had to get an identity change. Likely stuck around with Anderson. Maybe even ended up joining his organization...? That could lead to some Romeo and Juiliett type of deal.

I'm looking very forward to where the dev goes from here. I have not seen such a great set up for some major drama in a long time.
 
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kantigura

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Mar 17, 2019
90
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I know, I know... But if her hand wasn't on his cheek I feel like a lot of this heated "discussion" wouldn't have happened. Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know, I mean obviously there is interest in the game so that's good but the pages and pages of back and forth make me wonder.

Of course people could interpret her hand being on his face because she is in the middle of slapping the guy but it seems everyone wants to believe the worst about her based on a single image. I don't understand why so many see one picture of a character being kissed against her will and immediately think the absolute worst about her. She and the MC talked it out and he accepted her version of the events, there shouldn't be anything further. If they can't trust her when the MC does then I also don't understand why they are continuing the play this game.
When we the player see that scene it is from the MC memory 22 years later and from his prospective. It's one single render, not and animation, not a series of renders. To me it is a traumatic moment frozen in time for the MC, hence why we as the player only see that one image of the kiss, it's the part burned into his memory. From there it is up to us as the player to get the rest of picture from others, like Anderson or Rachel.
 

MrFriendly

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Feb 23, 2020
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now for some speculation... I feel like our homeboy Anderson will turn into an antagonist of sorts. MC is obviously quite a big timer now in the criminal organization. What has Anderson been up to? Probably climbing his own criminal ladder back at home. Maybe there will be some beef between the groups and the old friends have to become reluctant enemies. This is a pretty common scenario in TV/movies right?

That brings us to Rachel. What has SHE been doing? She had to get an identity change. Likely stuck around with Anderson. Maybe even ended up joining his organization...? That could lead to some Romeo and Juiliett type of deal.

I'm looking very forward to where the dev goes from here. I have not seen such a great set up for some major drama in a long time.
Well, as I understand it, Jackie survived being shot so she is still in charge of her criminal organization back in Eastern Place. Anderson and Rachel (plus baby?) had to go on the run to survive. Where is the big question. It seems unlikely that they would then join a rival organization, that the MC wouldn't know that it was them for 20 years, and then he suddenly bumps into them right after dreaming about them. Also unlikely since I'd expect Jackie would find them much easier that way.

What if Anderson and Rachel left and started new lives and Anderson went into law enforcement (deputy sheriff of a small town?) as a way to protect Rachel, legally own and carry a firearm, and control the environment around them? I could totally see them living in a podunk middle of nowhere town in the southwestern united states where everything is cash only, no questions asked.

Perhaps the MC will want to go back and take on Jackie, who has even more power and control now, and he has to go find Alex, Charlie, Anderson, and Rachel to help him get revenge on her - and to help them get revenge on her.

Or maybe he settles down with Danna and has a quiet life of animalistic sex while living off his smart investments.

When we the player see that scene it is from the MC memory 22 years later and from his prospective. It's one single render, not and animation, not a series of renders. To me it is a traumatic moment frozen in time for the MC, hence why we as the player only see that one image of the kiss, it's the part burned into his memory. From there it is up to us as the player to get the rest of picture from others, like Anderson or Rachel.
Yeah, that's why I get frustrated with so much of the whole "cheating, lying whore" argument. Just because that is what he remembers doesn't mean that's the way it happened. He is biased (as we all are) to try and cast himself in the best light. I doubt he has a perfect memory after 22 years, no matter how traumatic an event. Just wish people would let Kinky tell his story and wait to see what happens instead of trying to argue that everything should be changed.
 

kantigura

Newbie
Mar 17, 2019
90
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What if Anderson and Rachel left and started new lives and Anderson went into law enforcement (deputy sheriff of a small town?) as a way to protect Rachel, legally own and carry a firearm, and control the environment around them? I could totally see them living in a podunk middle of nowhere town in the southwestern united states where everything is cash only, no questions asked.

Perhaps the MC will want to go back and take on Jackie, who has even more power and control now, and he has to go find Alex, Charlie, Anderson, and Rachel to help him get revenge on her - and to help them get revenge on her.
That would be a really cool story arc, and of course revenge on Jackie would be legendary. Of course hopefully this time the MC learns the value of a good double-tap!
 

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
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Well, as I understand it, Jackie survived being shot so she is still in charge of her criminal organization back in Eastern Place. Anderson and Rachel (plus baby?) had to go on the run to survive. Where is the big question. It seems unlikely that they would then join a rival organization, that the MC wouldn't know that it was them for 20 years, and then he suddenly bumps into them right after dreaming about them. Also unlikely since I'd expect Jackie would find them much easier that way.

What if Anderson and Rachel left and started new lives and Anderson went into law enforcement (deputy sheriff of a small town?) as a way to protect Rachel, legally own and carry a firearm, and control the environment around them? I could totally see them living in a podunk middle of nowhere town in the southwestern united states where everything is cash only, no questions asked.

Perhaps the MC will want to go back and take on Jackie, who has even more power and control now, and he has to go find Alex, Charlie, Anderson, and Rachel to help him get revenge on her - and to help them get revenge on her.

Or maybe he settles down with Danna and has a quiet life of animalistic sex while living off his smart investments.



Yeah, that's why I get frustrated with so much of the whole "cheating, lying whore" argument. Just because that is what he remembers doesn't mean that's the way it happened. He is biased (as we all are) to try and cast himself in the best light. I doubt he has a perfect memory after 22 years, no matter how traumatic an event. Just wish people would let Kinky tell his story and wait to see what happens instead of trying to argue that everything should be changed.
hmmm I am quite certain Jakie is ded as a rock. She just called up the dude with her final breath. As batshit as she was, her role was to pass on the torch to the MC. To make him "king" according to her. Her dying to make way for a new king seems fitting.

Your point about Anderson joining law enforcement could be interesting though. That still makes a path for the old friends turned enemies trope, not that I'm like hell bent on seeing this outcome. I just think it's a possibility and an interesting one at that.
 
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MrFriendly

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hmmm I am quite certain Jakie is ded as a rock. She just called up the dude with her final breath. As batshit as she was, her role was to pass on the torch to the MC. To make him "king" according to her. Her dying to make way for a new king seems fitting.

Your point about Anderson joining law enforcement could be interesting though. That still makes a path for the old friends turned enemies trope, not that I'm like hell bent on seeing this outcome. I just think it's a possibility and an interesting one at that.
Yeah, fairly sure Jackie survived since at the end her eye turns and looks at "you". Also I believe Kinky Shop said so or eluded to it on this thread (somewhere).

As for Anderson I want to see a drastic change of scenery, we've seen the MC's "hometown" and... well... his bedroom somewhere in Europe (maybe?). Just would be interesting to see the MC in the middle of a small town, sticking out like a sore thumb, and trying to reconcile with Anderson and Rachel (if possible).

Not sure which person I want to see first - Alex, Rachel, or Charlie. LOL
 
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