Unity LOK: Rebirth [v0.1.8.0 Test] [The Tribe Devs]

[arimouse]

Doesn't matter if a deadline is made public or not. Without a closed work plan they only know they're working... but they don't know *when* they'll finish until the very last month, or just when they decide to release an unpolished sub-version aka. "tech demo".

It's been two years and they still didn't figure out basic project management.

Project management would seem like a fairly innocuous and pointless component for a lot of people; especially people who maybe are fresh out of college or people who have learned to program on their own but have never been part of a major project.

Most project management systems fall into a variety of categories and multitudes of sub-types within them. Probably the most popular one that a lot of modern companies attempt to adhere to is the agile framework.

So the fun part of agile is that it's designed around quick deployments (sprints), and responding to feedback from those deployments quickly. While it doesn't really make a project go faster, it's designed to make a project better by the end of it because you've taken all of the input from your users and stakeholders along the way and adjusted your build accordingly.

I would consider this method to be preferable for an indie project, especially one where the end goal isn't where the money comes from, but from patrons who are paying for development as the project gets closer to some better form.

Your goal should be that you have some deliverable piece of functional code every sprint. It may not be the final form, but it is the spirit of that piece.

For example the cooking mini-game I believe they were talking about. Well, maybe the very first iteration of that is food on the ground and you can pick it up. Maybe with the next version you can pick up that food and eat it and it does something to your stats. Maybe the next version is now you have to pick up some ingredients and then click on a pan to create your food item. And maybe the final version is you pick up your ingredients, click on a pan, play some mini-game or have a menu where you drag and drop ingredients into it, and then the end result is your food item.

The whole point there is you wanted food, started with food, and slowly built food to be what you want, but at every iteration you had something like "this is food".

Not only that, but you also delivered timely updates to your patrons and made people happy by showing progress.

The complex part is the milestones for all of these iterations, continually planning work to build better food/iterations, and working towards your final goal. Keeping your eye on the ball during the whole project and not being distracted by something else along the way is not an easy thing. It's actually something most companies fail, miserably, to achieve.

Ultimately if you don't have good project management, don't know how to build iterative software, don't know what you need to do to move from A to B to reach C as your final piece, and don't have the ability to manage all of the pieces moving on the board simultaneously to achieve that goal... you're going to spin your wheels a lot and be very slow and probably find yourself rebuilding solutions becuse you really jumped to step 9 and never did 1-8 and as it turns out something in step 2 totally messed your step 9 up that you spent ages building... and now it's useless and has to be dumped or refactored endlessly.

These are huge gotchas. And so far I think this team is very much knee-deep in these kinds of gotchas and I'm super excited to see how/if they can navigate out of them.

 

[Choronzon11]

These are huge gotchas. And so far I think this team is very much knee-deep in these kinds of gotchas and I'm super excited to see how/if they can navigate out of them.

You make it sound more interesting than the action in the game.

Alright. I've got it. Completely scrap the whole jungle aspect. Krystal is now working in indie game development that has poor product management. She has to navigate the office environment, fight off rogue A.I. cables, and convince her boss that she really needs that raise, all while looking like a sexy office lady.

 

[Eepy Poss]

You make it sound more interesting than the action in the game.

Alright. I've got it. Completely scrap the whole jungle aspect. Krystal is now working in indie game development that has poor product management. She has to navigate the office environment, fight off rogue A.I. cables, and convince her boss that she really needs that raise, all while looking like a sexy office lady.

do you have a release date? I'll review it

 

[Jinsoyun]

Doesn't matter if a deadline is made public or not. Without a closed work plan they only know they're working... but they don't know *when* they'll finish until the very last month, or just when they decide to release an unpolished sub-version aka. "tech demo".

It's been two years and they still didn't figure out basic project management.

I won't repeat myself, but just in case you didn't read it and are willing to do so, you can find my last post here.
As evident by your comments you yourself have failed to figure out some fundamentals of project management in 4 years now? At least 2 since the project collapsed, so a bit of introspection might benefit you.

 

[Porn_Jesus]

Something to remember when speaking about a project: It is unique, has a starting point and an end. Daily business work comes again and again and is called "recurring processes" which have no true start or end.

Some Patreon supported dev hotshots might think their little project falls under recurring processes, which means they take all the time in the world and milk that cow until it turns into dust. Some of them are christians but might have forgotten there's this one little commandment that speaks about "thou shalt not steal" but hey... we only pretend to be faithful as long as it suits us, right? =3

The dust I was speaking about before is the patience and wallet of all the supporters and not the pirates here. Just to avoid the usual "you get it here for free" BS that gets thrown like candy and works like a free ticket for some of the light hearted devs here.

I just find it amusing to see the same crap over and over again. Humans are truly the most advanced lifeform on the planet.

 

[arimouse]

You make it sound more interesting than the action in the game.

Alright. I've got it. Completely scrap the whole jungle aspect. Krystal is now working in indie game development that has poor product management. She has to navigate the office environment, fight off rogue A.I. cables, and convince her boss that she really needs that raise, all while looking like a sexy office lady.

lol

You actually just created a game concept I never thought of haha

I'm gonna have to deeply consider this as a fun game jam concept now that could be silly fun!

 

[Jinsoyun]

There is a lot here, so i'll just go one step at a time if you don't mind.

Yes, I read it at the time.

The thing is, in the first half of the post you say I indeed delivered results in the two years I took upon myself the responsibility of being the acting project manager. Okay.

And in the second half you say I failed to take into account the emotional factor of the team. Not so okay. Why? Because we're not talking about the corporate world here, man.

Project management basics again. The emotional factor is way more important in small teams than in the corporate world, because key figures leaving, like, i don't know, the only artist can and do grind a small game to a halt.

The "team" at that time was...:

Project Manager: Abelius
Game Designer: Abelius
Coder: Abelius
Animator: Abelius
Co-Writer: Abelius
Other "minor" roles: Abelius

and then...

Illustrator: Kuja
Co-writer: Vlad

...and a guy that made some songs for free, who *wanted* to do it for free.

So, what "team" are you referring to?

In this part you out right confirm MightyAltroll 's (Vlad, right?) accusations that you didn't consider anyone else to be a teammate. I'll come back to this.

Kuja NEVER complained he was unhappy with me before he decided to backstab me that way he did. And Vlad, of course he was unhappy after I fired him for what he thought were "unreasonable expectations". Thee months for one dialogue chain, FFS...

I already had my hands full managing my own crazy working schedule, setting the bar so high that of course I knew nobody was going to be at my level. And that was FINE. I worked my ass off to get my 60% share, and the rest Kuja kept it for basically doing nothing, because I didn't ask for more assets I couldn't implement at the same speed he could draw them.

You know what was going to be next? The tavern jobs. And the graphics for that were already done. The only thing I needed from Kuja by that summer of 2019 was the monkey model and their nest in the forest. Again, something he could draw in two weeks max.

So, you did the design, coding, animation, management, writing and various other things in the project while the artist, a founding member of the project was told to just sit back, do nothing important and take some cash for it. And that was fine?

Let me just ask you a rhetorical question: If someone came into this project and he told you that "you know what? here is a bit of cash and a minor job, just sit back and i'll continue instead of you", then what would your reaction be?
The question is, again rhetorical, because we know your reaction since this has happened. Two years ago and you are still furious about it.

You got kicked out of the project, got some pity money and pity role for it and the others stopped considering you a teammate. Exactly the things you did before and when the tide turned you became incredibly angry about it. Before you say that i'm twisting your words, i do not. These are all things you said either before or just now to me.

So what emotional factor are you referring to, man? It was me the one person that would have needed mental therapy to bear the stress I was under, because both Kuja and Vlad were, and still are, total incompetents at making decisions that make a project going forward. I saw that early on, and that's why I put the responsility upon myself. Simple as that.

That argument of me being a tyranical dictator to everyone (more like myself) is already very old and a excuse for them to "depose" me. They were desperate for picturing themselves as the saviours of a project that didn't need to be saved. So yeah, dehumanizing the enemy is the first step in getting soldiers for your war.

Small project rarely succeed in a democratic system so i never cared about that argument. I don't want to demonize you either. As i said multiple times now: i liked the things you created and there are many things both this team and every other could really learn from you.

But you made mistakes. You either still don't see them or refuse to acknowledge them openly. And these are the kind of mistakes and lack of self reflection that can hurt you or anyone else who makes them in the future. I never wrote a post here with the intention of excusing the current team's problems or to paint you as a cartoon villain. I'm just confident in my point that the mistakes i highlight are real and anyone who bothers to read my posts can benefit from looking into them.

And what the hell do you mean with this...:


Do you think I've been idle in these two years? LOL.

Okay, let's play a game. I've already said in the "other thread" I'm going to release my game in September.

Why am I so sure? Because I made a Gantt chart along with the Trello board, and I see it happening. Not because I wishfully say so, like these guys, but because I have identified every task remaining, coordinated with Naikal (my new illustrator) and WE have a closed plan.

If we don't launch the game in September I'll return here and publicly apologize for being the same as these guys: making promises I can't uphold to, because I suck at WORKING ETHICS.

Okay...? Fine.

The fundametals of project management i mentioned that you haven't learned are the things i criticized. That's what i meant there and i said that you didn't learn them because everything you wrote indicates that you haven't even considered them yet.

I don't care about your challenge. If your game succeeds in the end then that's good. If i like it, then that's good for me. That's the extent of my interest in it at the moment since i didn't read anything else about it yet.

But this final part is the confirmation that you either didn't understand me or didn't bother considering what i wrote.
I never said that you are the same as anyone else, i never questioned your work ethics and if you read it again, you will notice how i praised your focus on delivering results. You just bundled me up with a strawman because i criticized some things about your comments and actions.

If you take a deep breath and think it through, you'll see that the challenge you issued is absolutely pointless when it's directed towards me.

Have a nice day.

 

[Jinsoyun]

Ah, I see. A cherry-picking Sophist...

I'll keep working then. No problem.

A sophist maybe in the original term and not the contemporary use, but cherry picking? That part would only apply if the collapse of the first project was unimportant and you don't seem to think that.

Either way if that is is all you can say and really what you think of me just because i don't just praise everything, but also criticize what was bad, then you probably should really only focus on your current project. Every reply you wrote to me, including this last one has supported Vlads claims and i honestly don't think that to be your intention.

Just use your potential wisely and take care.

 

[MightyAltroll]

Coming back here to start more drama I see, Abel. Go work on your project and piss off. I do not care if you are successful or not.

Oh, and three months for that dialogue? You mean that time I had to drive to Arizona with my mother twice to help her clean up my dead grandfather's house, and help her move everything?

Or are you conflating me with those many months you spent in the Philippines trying to find love?

 

[Eepy Poss]

ah, the tea is hot today...

 

[D4n0w4r]

The gift that never stops giving.

 

[galindae]

lets hope this version will be more succesfull for players and team.
and maby with good conqurence will make both commands work better.(rival or something)
p.s why krystall is starfox, but her skin is more wolf? (fur)

 

[dragonsix6969]

lets hope this version will be more succesfull for players and team.
and maby with good conqurence will make both commands work better.(rival or something)
p.s why krystall is starfox, but her skin is more wolf? (fur)

unfortunately art from previous version be amazing but they changed it and not the only arts....

 

[DoorFive]

lets hope this version will be more succesfull for players and team.
and maby with good conqurence will make both commands work better.(rival or something)
p.s why krystall is starfox, but her skin is more wolf? (fur)

I think they are trying to distance themselves from Krystal to dodge the big N's wrath.

 

[helllover]

It's not really surprising that Abelius didn't view them as teammates, from everything that's been written the group wasn't in a team setting and they all were more like different contractors. And I can totally believe Abelius about the rest of the team being bad at making decisions considering the "Rebirth" of the project.

I think also that the team disagreed on their working speed, not hard to guess which one wanted what.

The "Team" all have rights to be angry at each other but I think some of them are a bit holier than thou about the situation.

 

[Eepy Poss]

It's not really surprising that Abelius didn't view them as teammates, from everything that's been written the group wasn't in a team setting and they all were more like different contractors. And I can totally believe Abelius about the rest of the team being bad at making decisions considering the "Rebirth" of the project.

I think also that the team disagreed on their working speed, not hard to guess which one wanted what.

The "Team" all have rights to be angry at each other but I think some of them are a bit holier than thou about the situation.

I think whats most humorous as a third party is that both sides are throwing stones while both sides reside in glass houses. Neither project has taken off the ground and neither one is going anywhere so really, everyone is losing in this situation and nobody is even close to winning. It really is just a fight between the pot and the kettle.

 

[whatever4096]

I think whats most humorous as a third party is that both sides are throwing stones while both sides reside in glass houses. Neither project has taken off the ground and neither one is going anywhere so really, everyone is losing in this situation and nobody is even close to winning. It really is just a fight between the pot and the kettle.

Time that could be better spent working on their projects.

 

[mokak77989]

I think they are trying to distance themselves from Krystal to dodge the big N's wrath.

I think it's about time to spawn the Big N into this shitfest and let these guy figure out new ways to get either vacation money or vodka bucks.

 

[chopolander]

I think they are trying to distance themselves from Krystal to dodge the big N's wrath.

Cheap excuse that we have heard before... or, if it is not an excuse, to have, from day one, done what you say to make things clear to the community.

The Patreon for "Legend of Krystal: Rebirth" should have been closed, if it is no longer Krystal.

Do not open a new topic to be called "Legend of Krystal Rebirth Remake".

That Mr. MightyAltroll did not say from the very first moment that "it was going to be the same game".

Do not create initial designs that clearly resemble Krystal.

Things would have been clearer if we had avoided doing all of the above steps during the first week of the announcement of the new game, but it seems that they were interested in avoiding a massive drain of patrons to have money from the beginning.
Obviously now it is in their interest to keep it looking like a Legend of Krystal, with a similar name "LOK:RE" (they must have broken their brains thinking about it) where the appearance of the characters "look like" or "allow it to look" like Krystal so that all those who "still" expect a Legend of Krystal.

I hope it's clear to you how the world works when money is involved

 

[MightyAltroll]

Cheap excuse that we have heard before... or, if it is not an excuse, to have, from day one, done what you say to make things clear to the community.

You know, every now and then you come across a post like this, and it just makes you think less of humanity as a whole. This post of yours has managed to shake my faith in the species that we share. I should really just ignore things like this, but I'm going to respond anyway just for my own sanity. I'll try to be as nice as I can.

The Patreon for "Legend of Krystal: Rebirth" should have been closed, if it is no longer Krystal.

It is 'Lok:R'. Closing it down when it is the same game is rather idiotic.

Do not open a new topic to be called "Legend of Krystal Rebirth Remake".

It's Lok:R. It's an Acronym. It can mean literally anything, it could mean "Legislative Orangutans Kayak: Revengening"

If you believe that Abel would not have distanced himself from any Nintendo property the moment OTHER games of a similar nature were nuked, then you must have a severe lack of critical thinking in that regard.

That Mr. MightyAltroll did not say from the very first moment that "it was going to be the same game".

It is the same game. It has the same characters, the same setting, and a similar plot. You want to split hairs? Call it a 'remaster'.

Do not create initial designs that clearly resemble Krystal.

Let me know when your time machine is functioning so we can warn Abel/Kuja not to do that. While you're at it, tell Abel to hire more people.

Things would have been clearer if we had avoided doing all of the above steps during the first week of the announcement of the new game, but it seems that they were interested in avoiding a massive drain of patrons to have money from the beginning.

No, actually. We knew there was going to be a massive drain of patrons to 'have money' because we were having to restart the project. The decision was between abandoning the game, or **restarting the game** and potentially making some people angry.

And the reason for **distancing** ourselves from Nintendo came when we heard the news of other projects being taken down. What do you just want us to blindly stumble into legal issues so you can feel pleased about your tattooed blue queen for 3 or 4 more scenes?

This simply goes to show how miniscule your attention span is, Chopolander, because the original version had nothing to do with Krystal beyond a similar appearance. It was a completely original character from the fucking ground up. Abel self-admittedly knew **nothing** about Star Fox, or Krystal.

What you think Krystal was a demon hunter traveling the galaxy to find a lust demon that stole a sacred gemstone so that she could have a totally canon sexcapade with all of the random lizard people on the random lizard planet?

So what are you whining about, Chopolander? Or are you doing it just to whine?

Obviously now it is in their interest to keep it looking like a Legend of Krystal, with a similar name "LOK:RE" (they must have broken their brains thinking about it) where the appearance of the characters "look like" or "allow it to look" like Krystal so that all those who "still" expect a Legend of Krystal.

We are actually trying to keep it as close without actually being the same thing. Because, shockingly, we don't want the project to die after putting so much time, effort, and love into it. Also, what the fuck are you on about constantly referring to the name. The project, from the very **START** was named LOK:R. It still is.

I hope it's clear to you how the world works when money is involved

You have no remote concept of how the world works. If we wanted to scam, there are far easier ways to do it, and we'd be making more money. Not less.

Go away, Chopolander. I do not want your money, nor your presence. You are an incessant whiner who has spent every waking moment on this project complaining. I've seen COD lobbies with less salt and more sense than you.

I think it's about time to spawn the Big N into this shitfest and let these guy figure out new ways to get either vacation money or vodka bucks.

What a massively cunty thing to say. So you want to fuck it over for everyone else, for anyone that might like the project, just because you don't get what **you** want. You are the biggest entitled Karen I've ever seen, and your parents failed you.

And as I've said before, I'd earn more on unemployment than from this project. I'd earn substantially more on minimum wage. We earn almost nothing from this.