Green Layer

Member
Aug 8, 2020
132
122
No, but you can only choose one girl to be with at the end, and every girl you you were involved with who you don’t choose doesn’t take it super well. (Except Thorn, the Fairy Queen. She don’t care.) The only way to avoid hurting a girl’s feelings in the end is to never involve yourself with her romantically (because remember kids: infidelity is wrong and will get you into trouble, but raping women while they’re unconscious is consequence-free! :rolleyes:).

Well, there's definitely a harem ending, you need to consume the daemon and get his powers to get it at the final confrontation. That way, you become the king and have all the girls except Belle, who is disappointed in your choice and is trying to find a new sidekick.
 
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glaurung

Member
Jul 17, 2020
418
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Well, there's definitely a harem ending, you need to consume the daemon and get his powers to get it at the final confrontation. That way, you become the king and have all the girls except Belle, who is disappointed in your choice and is trying to find a new sidekick.
That's a bad ending, in which you become evil. It doesn't count.
 

professorx10

Active Member
Game Developer
Jul 22, 2018
601
776
That's a bad ending, in which you become evil. It doesn't count.
ha ha ha... oh what this says about the whole "harem ending" fetish/issue... hah ah ha.... Oh but it does count, just not the way to fulfill the 'harem ending' fetishers.

You're right, it is a bad ending to be a monster, controlling everyone, getting your harem and having it forever. That's what a harem ending is after all, the fantasy wish that a harem of beautiful passionate women lusting after your body can be something that lasts forever. It's not enough for the harem ending dreamers to have a harem during a story, they must be able to get the harem at the end of the story and then believe that it lasts forever. Nothing else 'counts.'

So there we have the raw truth about our irrational thinking of what fulfills our bodily needs. The 'harem ending' is a drug. It's the doper who says, "As I fell to the floor, I cried, Gimme more gimme more!!" An Insatiable craving.

So here is probably the most articulate, well written plot around realistic relationships in a fantasy setting that makes the real point that 'everything costs' and therefore you must be careful in your decisions because they have consequences. The people in this story are well written and have real needs and desires and many readers reveal their own problems by their reactions to how it comes out. I see the same thing in the other well written story that I admire, Callisto, where you actually do get a harem throughout the story but are faced with a real decision at the end. So many guys just can't handle the truth. Wake up guys, it is a good story that reflects real life choices. Life bites. Learn from it.
 

muschi26

Engaged Member
Jun 22, 2019
2,721
4,088
ha ha ha... oh what this says about the whole "harem ending" fetish/issue... hah ah ha.... Oh but it does count, just not the way to fulfill the 'harem ending' fetishers.

You're right, it is a bad ending to be a monster, controlling everyone, getting your harem and having it forever. That's what a harem ending is after all, the fantasy wish that a harem of beautiful passionate women lusting after your body can be something that lasts forever. It's not enough for the harem ending dreamers to have a harem during a story, they must be able to get the harem at the end of the story and then believe that it lasts forever. Nothing else 'counts.'

So there we have the raw truth about our irrational thinking of what fulfills our bodily needs. The 'harem ending' is a drug. It's the doper who says, "As I fell to the floor, I cried, Gimme more gimme more!!" An Insatiable craving.

So here is probably the most articulate, well written plot around realistic relationships in a fantasy setting that makes the real point that 'everything costs' and therefore you must be careful in your decisions because they have consequences. The people in this story are well written and have real needs and desires and many readers reveal their own problems by their reactions to how it comes out. I see the same thing in the other well written story that I admire, Callisto, where you actually do get a harem throughout the story but are faced with a real decision at the end. So many guys just can't handle the truth. Wake up guys, it is a good story that reflects real life choices. Life bites. Learn from it.
See, my reason for discounting the demon–harem ending (and bad ends in general) was just that, like many bad ends, it’s abortive; one doesn’t get to see the narrative to its completion. For comparison, would getting killed and getting a game over in the first ten minutes of the game be considered an ending? It would, in a way; but it certainly wouldn’t fall under the same category as a real ending. One could make the argument that the demon–harem ending comes close enough to the end to be treated as a proper ending; on the other hand, I would counter by pointing out that it does not receive the same level of attention as any of the other endings. Unless I’m mistaken, Belle intentionally made the ending unfulfilling in this manner specifically to discourage haremseeking players. In light of this, I don’t think I could blame a player for not regarding the demon–harem ending as a “real ending”.

In addition to this, while Long Live the Princess is indeed better written and generally more realistic than many of the other games on this site, this does not mean that the “deconstruction” of a harem ending presented in the game is the only valid or realistic interpretation of such an ending. While it’s true that the generic harem ending found in many, less creative games involves every single love interest essentially becoming a live-in sex slave to the MC, a harem—in a nonhistorical context at least—is, at its core, just a polyamorous relationship between one man and multiple women (from my experience, generally understood to be three or more).

There are already two “proper” endings in this game which feature polyamory: that with Evelyn and Callie, and that where Dickon becomes king (he marries Selena, but Lilith remains a part of the arrangement, I believe). What is it that makes a polyamorous situation with one man and two women believable, but one with three or more women suddenly ludicrous? Is it really that impossible to imagine one more woman joining either of these established relationships?

Actually, one doesn’t even have to imagine: Belle the pixie already does tag along in both endings, unless you morph her sexuality. And so one could consider both of these endings harems of sorts (maybe “miniharem” would be more typical, considering not every love interest is present); unless of course Belle is abstaining from sex with Dickon, or Dickon’s having sex with Belle is just cheating, and he keeps her existence secret. I consider the first case unlikely, as it goes against the reason she chooses to keep following Dickon in the first place; the second case is also improbable, as this—Belle being kept as a side piece unbeknownst to the ending’s main girls—would have serious ramifications on all of the “good” endings.

Moreover, harems are already a thing in the world of the game, because concubinage exists. This is revealed when Selena expresses the wish, during Dickon’s confrontation with her, that she had one of the palace concubines at hand, so that she could use her to take care of her sexual urges.

However, even without taking into account the evidence in favour of harems already present in the game, the fact is that Dickon is an accomplished mentalist who has already demonstrated the ability to impose his will on the girls, changing their behaviour, their opinions, and even their sexuality. It’s even him who makes Evelyn seduce Callie in the first place, potentially leading to one of the polyamory endings. I’ve no doubt whatsoever that, if he had truly wanted, he could have gotten the both of them to agree to include a third girl—and then maybe a fourth, and so on. In a sense, Dickon already does things during the normal course of the game which, fundamentally, are not so different from his actions in the demon–harem ending. On one hand, he doesn’t take things nearly as far; on the other, he’s working a lot more gradually, so it’s not at all clear where the end result would lie if he just kept at it. If Dickon continued to slowly warp the girls’ perceptions, morals, opinions of themselves and others, etc., for the next year or so, he could realistically end up with a brainwashed harem, just like the bad end.

It is true that, during all this, I am working under the assumption that Dickon will have sex with every love interest over the course of the game. I would argue, however, that the gameplay encourages this, for three reasons:

The first is that Belle abets this way of playing.

The second is that—and this ties in with your point about the “realism” of the writing—there are absolutely no consequences for infidelity, up until the very end of the game. A game wishing to explore infidelity in a realistic manner could bring up any number of issues for dramatic purposes—schedule conflicts, the need to stay hidden, juggling the different expectations of each girl, etc.—but none of these are touched on. There isn’t even a more general time constraint: one can pursue every single love interest, view every sex scene, and still have ample time to complete the every objective before the deadline, the hard limit on the day counter.

The third—and perhaps the more subjective—is that the game has little immediate replay value. Sister Agnes was added later in development to help shore up this issue, but it remains the case that every puzzle remains the same, in the same order, with the clues in the same location, and there is no gameplay loop, such as combat or exploration, to incentivize trying a new playthrough with a different loadout or destination to keep things fresh; not even Dickon’s interactions with the girls change depending on whether you’re seeing one of them or all, only the endings—and even then, not enough, in my opinion, to justify multiple full playthroughs of the game. And, as good as this game is, it’s not Macbeth—I’m not going to be replaying it for the story alone. (I want to point out that this isn’t a criticism of the game—I’ve seen very few games on this site with significant replay value, and in any case not every game needs it.)

(In any case, even if one chooses to remain monogamous, it’s not possible to progress through the game without practising mind control.)

* * *​

Anyway, harem is just a fetish like any other. It’s not exceptional in any way to see someone hoping for a fetish they enjoy to be included in a game they like. As you may have guessed, I am a “happy harem” fetishist myself. I would’ve liked to see one in this game; I can accept that there isn’t. I won’t be losing any sleep over it.
 

Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,109
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Sister Agnes was added later in development to help shore up this issue
I just want to point out that this isn't true in the slightest. She was part of the design document from before I even made the game's first scene, and she was always intended to be exclusive to NG+. This isn't something I came up with at the last second. LLtP was always intended to be a game with NG+ that unlocked new content on your second playthrough.
 
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muschi26

Engaged Member
Jun 22, 2019
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I just want to point out that this isn't true in the slightest. She was part of the design document from before I even made the game's first scene, and she was always intended to be exclusive to NG+. This isn't something I came up with at the last second. LLtP was always intended to be a game with NG+ that unlocked new content on your second playthrough.
I’m sorry, it wasn’t my intention to imply that she was added as an afterthought; I only meant that she was added to the game towards the end of development. I should’ve said, “Sister Agnes, who was added later in development, helps to shore up this issue … .”
 

gunnnn12345

New Member
Sep 19, 2017
13
42
So finally tried the full game after having played an incomplete version long ago, and it is really well done.
I do have two questions. 1. Is it possible to impregnate Neil without dating her? 2. Does Neil and Samarra have any non-golden endings where they don´t die or Neil becomes the Fey Queen?
 

glaurung

Member
Jul 17, 2020
418
357
So finally tried the full game after having played an incomplete version long ago, and it is really well done.
I do have two questions. 1. Is it possible to impregnate Neil without dating her? 2. Does Neil and Samarra have any non-golden endings where they don´t die or Neil becomes the Fey Queen?
1. No. the only way to have PIV sex with Nell is to become her boyfriend.
2. To get a good ending, among other requirements, Nell must become the new FQ, freeing the old FQ from her duties so she can help you out in your confrontation with the big bad.
 

gunnnn12345

New Member
Sep 19, 2017
13
42
1. No. the only way to have PIV sex with Nell is to become her boyfriend.
2. To get a good ending, among other requirements, Nell must become the new FQ, freeing the old FQ from her duties so she can help you out in your confrontation with the big bad.
I get that. Mainly curious if she has any non-FQ endings where she survives.
But thank you for the answers.
 

Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,109
10,344
I get that. Mainly curious if she has any non-FQ endings where she survives.
But thank you for the answers.
She does, even together with Samarra, but none where you win the game at the same time.
 

gunnnn12345

New Member
Sep 19, 2017
13
42
She does, even together with Samarra, but none where you win the game at the same time.
I am perfectly fine with that. Any hints on how to get them? I have already completed the game, so right now I am just trying to see the different endings.
 
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hirakoshinji2

Member
Sep 5, 2019
157
149
Gettin a lot of people explaining that the reason there's no good harem ending is because it's not realistic......

Y'all really think I'm playin a game where an old wizard traps me in a time loop so I can be repeatedly killed by a demon over and over until I team up with the queen of fairies, an old crone witch that turns out to be a princess and a black person that's ok with racism to finally defeat the demon by talking him down.....

Because I want a game that's REALISTIC!?
 

Belle

Developer of Long Live the Princess
Game Developer
Sep 25, 2017
3,109
10,344
Gettin a lot of people explaining that the reason there's no good harem ending is because it's not realistic......

Y'all really think I'm playin a game where an old wizard traps me in a time loop so I can be repeatedly killed by a demon over and over until I team up with the queen of fairies, an old crone witch that turns out to be a princess and a black person that's ok with racism to finally defeat the demon by talking him down.....

Because I want a game that's REALISTIC!?
I like to differentiate between the words "realistic" and "believable" when talking about stuff like this. When I describe something as "realistic," it means that I feel something like that could actually happen or have happened without breaking any physical laws or fucking up history. When I describe something as "believable," I mean that it could plausibly happen within the setting in which it takes place. Someone getting burns from being hit by a fireball spell is certainly not realistic (fireball spells don't exist), but it is believable in a fantasy setting.

I'd like to point out here that many fantasy stories can be described with neither word, which is one of my big issues with the genre, influencing my own writing.

Long Live the Princess was written to be believable, not realistic.
 

Penitensary

Active Member
May 10, 2020
632
551
Gettin a lot of people explaining that the reason there's no good harem ending is because it's not realistic......

Y'all really think I'm playin a game where an old wizard traps me in a time loop so I can be repeatedly killed by a demon over and over until I team up with the queen of fairies, an old crone witch that turns out to be a princess and a black person that's ok with racism to finally defeat the demon by talking him down.....

Because I want a game that's REALISTIC!?
Similarly, for a harem ending you cheat on a small village worth of women with one another, leaving pretty much all of them thinking they're in a monogamous relationship. Then you're upset that they're not suddenly okay with you having like six side chicks, when some scenes in the game are already giving out the opposite signal, like when Evelyn gives you a BJ under the table in the Library when Primrose is calling you 'My love'?

So by all means, why would you expect this to be a good ending?
 
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hirakoshinji2

Member
Sep 5, 2019
157
149
I like to differentiate between the words "realistic" and "believable" when talking about stuff like this. When I describe something as "realistic," it means that I feel something like that could actually happen or have happened without breaking any physical laws or fucking up history. When I describe something as "believable," I mean that it could plausibly happen within the setting in which it takes place. Someone getting burns from being hit by a fireball spell is certainly not realistic (fireball spells don't exist), but it is believable in a fantasy setting.

I'd like to point out here that many fantasy stories can be described with neither word, which is one of my big issues with the genre, influencing my own writing.

Long Live the Princess was written to be believable, not realistic.
Yeah.... We're talking about a small army of gorgeous, smart, successful, high class women all falling tits over heel in love with the most plain, lazy, backwater peasant in world.

A badass warrior woman/noble knight of the crown that loves Nell like a daughter but is a-ok with you raping her as long as you're pretty good at it.

A bad ending where you die and apparently everything is hunky dorey after you do even though supposedly the antagonist absorbed the demon and ruled over the land raping all your girlfriends after you die

I could go on and on mate, but none of this is believable. If any of this was believable in real life we'd be going out and doing it for realsies, not huddled around our computers in a dark room arguing with strangers about if it's ok to put a harem ending in a fantasy porn game.

The only reason we're here is to experience the unbelievable and escape the believable. Because the believable world sucks!
 
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muschi26

Engaged Member
Jun 22, 2019
2,721
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Similarly, for a harem ending you cheat on a small village worth of women with one another, leaving pretty much all of them thinking they're in a monogamous relationship. Then you're upset that they're not suddenly okay with you having like six side chicks, when some scenes in the game are already giving out the opposite signal, like when Evelyn gives you a BJ under the table in the Library when Primrose is calling you 'My love'?

So by all means, why would you expect this to be a good ending?
Just for discussion’s sake, there are girls for whom it should be clear you’re not in a monogamous relationship: Primrose on the sexfriend path; Samarra (obviously); and Evelyn and Callie, if you either set them up together or go for the threesome path. Also, I suppose it depends on everyone’s subjective reading of each character, but the only two girls I would’ve thought would be categorically against Dickon’s promiscuity are Primrose (on the lover path) and Nell—and even then, Nell looks up to Samarra so much that it’s hard to imagine she could never be swayed by her.

You do bring up a good counterargument with the Evelyn library blowjob scene, but evidently something changes with her by the end of the game, because later you can make her hook up with Callie, and even join in; Dickon’s mind meddling must be strong enough to get over whatever hangup she had about that.

While I won’t argue whether or not it’s realistic in general to hope for a good ending in this situation, I don’t think it’s unrealistic for players to assume this game is going in that direction: Belle (the pixie) encourages you to be promiscuous; Samarra is, in a way, of the same mind; and you can take actions to bring some of the girls together (Evelyn and Callie). Moreover, there are zero negative consequences to cheating on everyone until literally the end of the game; if you want to talk about realism, that one’s a bit farfetched—especially since, as you point out, you’re going out with half the village’s population. Hell, even during the ending, only the girls you don’t end up with have a problem; you still get a happy ending with the one(s) you choose.
 
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