Clemency

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Jan 21, 2024
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I made the wrong choice in The Prowler in the Depths mission
, how can I change it?
Which choice exactly? Resetting Winton, resetting the quest, and resetting the trigger for the quest all belong to different variables (winton_sex, quest_winton, and aca_hemme or was it aca_wolf). The fastest way would be to reload an earlier save before you made the choice.
 

Porrvald

Active Member
Sep 12, 2020
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Yeah Z Mark is just a nice to have. For me the mandatory ones are Brainy, Deadly Strike, Manhunter, and Tough. My latest build I only took 2 skill classes to leave more points for boosting stats. For a Rise from the Ashes start I would just take 2 levels of soldier and no other skill classes so I had pts left for traits. I can get those mandatory traits with a Rise start but my stats are pretty ugly.
I consider Debt and Unlucky to be mandatory. 40 creation points for a daily fee of $25 + a few dollars from unlucky events, is super cheap.

The only other traits I always get are Brainy, Big dick and Party animal.

In current Rise from ashes start, I only added Disciplined, 55 points on intelligence (90) and 35 points on manipulate (50).

High level strategy is to have a very small household, do basic training (stamina 100+ first) and hunting for cash, until I have a significant passive income from gardens.

I will then buy a workshop, build cheap plasma rifles or coilguns and let mercenaries do most of the fighting. At some point I will get around to train mc fighting stats, but, I don't see it as a priority.
 
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Clemency

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Jan 21, 2024
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Huh. I have always considered Manhunter the best trait personally, especially now with the addition of male captures. +15 to capture AND +15% to their auction sell price? Yes. Unless you plan a pacifist run I guess.
 
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khumak

Engaged Member
Oct 2, 2017
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I consider Debt and Unlucky to be mandatory. 40 creation points for a daily fee of $25 + a few dollars from unlucky events, is super cheap.

The only other traits I always get are Brainy, Big dick and Party animal.

In current Rise from ashes start, I only added Disciplined, 55 points on intelligence (90) and 35 points on manipulate (50).

High level strategy is to have a very small household, do basic training (stamina 100+ first) and hunting for cash, until I have a significant passive income from gardens.

I will then buy a workshop, build cheap plasma rifles or coilguns and let mercenaries do most of the fighting. At some point I will get around to train mc fighting stats, but, I don't see it as a priority.
Yeah I think Debt and Unlucky are the 2 least obnoxious disadvantages (especially Debt). The other disadvantages I would consider are the one that caps dexterity at 70 since dex is not really very useful anyway, and probably BO since I usually take a bath with the girls before getting it on anyway. I could see an argument for Gluttonous since you're probably going to do a ton of stamina training anyway but I don't like perpetually declining stats so I would probably avoid that one. Limp is another option I guess but it's extremely annoying until you get your stables maxed out.

Tough is the only trait I would never play without because I refuse to allow stat losses on MC from combat so any extra soak I can get I'm taking. The existence of the Stryker Implant at the mastersphere also makes Deadly Strike the superior combat damage perk to take over the ranged option IMO and extra damage kind of falls into the same category as extra soak for me so I can't see skipping Deadly Strike unless I'm playing a game where I take Pacifist (haven't tried that yet). With slave capture being such a big part of the game now I can't see not taking Manhunter (again, unless I take Pacifist). Brainy would be very painful to give up. Grinding stats is already a long slog, especially in a Rise play through where all of your stats suck. I want those bonus skill pts from books and classes.
 

Porrvald

Active Member
Sep 12, 2020
596
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Huh. I have always considered Manhunter the best trait personally, especially now with the addition of male captures. +15 to capture AND +15% to their auction sell price? Yes. Unless you plan a pacifist run I guess.
I also used to consider Manhunter to be mandatory, but starting with current Rise from Ashes start, I figured that I don't really need the 15% extra sale price and 85% vs 100% capture rate is not really significant.

I may regret it if I fail to capture some unique slave though.
 

khumak

Engaged Member
Oct 2, 2017
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I also used to consider Manhunter to be mandatory, but starting with current Rise from Ashes start, I figured that I don't really need the 15% extra sale price and 85% vs 100% capture rate is not really significant.

I may regret it if I fail to capture some unique slave though.
I think with a whip you're at 100% without Manhunter. The real appeal to Manhunter for me is the improved capture chance with weapons other than a whip (like a greatsword), plus the extra sale price. So I'm significantly more likely to capture that Hulk armor wearing, plasma wielding guy in a tier 7 bounty with my great sword with Manhunter meaning I don't have to switch to a whip and potentially eat an extra plasma blast to the face.
 
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Seamonkey

Member
Oct 24, 2017
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I think with a whip you're at 100% without Manhunter. The real appeal to Manhunter for me is the improved capture chance with weapons other than a whip (like a greatsword), plus the extra sale price. So I'm significantly more likely to capture that Hulk armor wearing, plasma wielding guy in a tier 7 bounty with my great sword with Manhunter meaning I don't have to switch to a whip and potentially eat an extra plasma blast to the face.
Without modifiers like manhunter, the base chance to capture someone using the whip is 90% (5% base + 85% Whipping Cane)
 

Clemency

Active Member
Jan 21, 2024
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I also used to consider Manhunter to be mandatory, but starting with current Rise from Ashes start, I figured that I don't really need the 15% extra sale price and 85% vs 100% capture rate is not really significant.

I may regret it if I fail to capture some unique slave though.
Actually, maybe I should try some game starts without Manhunter. It's still an S tier trait but me calling it the best trait might need some more thought. Its really really loaded for a 15 cost trait though and it makes starting on Grimdark A Dying World easier. That's what I call a capture rich environment.
 

khumak

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Oct 2, 2017
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Without modifiers like manhunter, the base chance to capture someone using the whip is 90% (5% base + 85% Whipping Cane)
Ok if that's the case then that would definitely make Manhunter mandatory to me. No way am I going to accidentally kill a unique I want to capture. I always take it anyway since slave capture/sale is such a huge part of the early game for me.
 
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trulul

Newbie
Aug 11, 2023
42
20
I think with a whip you're at 100% without Manhunter.
I am fairly certain I have seen manhunter fail to capture even with a whipping cane. But I acknowledge that it could have been somebody scripted to be uncapturable. It was definitely not the first of a random bounty at least.
 

khumak

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Oct 2, 2017
3,717
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I am fairly certain I have seen manhunter fail to capture even with a whipping cane. But I acknowledge that it could have been somebody scripted to be uncapturable. It was definitely not the first of a random bounty at least.
I've never failed a capture with manhunter with a whip except on targets that are impossible to capture. There are a few targets around town that you wouldn't think would be uncaptureable but are aside from the primary bounty target. Also some quest targets.
 

Porrvald

Active Member
Sep 12, 2020
596
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Actually, maybe I should try some game starts without Manhunter. It's still an S tier trait but me calling it the best trait might need some more thought. Its really really loaded for a 15 cost trait though and it makes starting on Grimdark A Dying World easier. That's what I call a capture rich environment.
Most of the games, where I have done a turtle start on Grimdark + dying world, prosperity and control are typically trending downward via random events. So, you will still have a very capture rich environment even if you delay a few months before harvesting them.

I think the most questionable choice, I usually do during creation, is to max out intelligence. As far as I know, it doesn't really affect much, and it is mostly done because I don't want to be annoyed later, that I am forever stuck with a halfwit mc.

I also like to think, that if mc can have 90 IQ in the game, maybe one day I could also have that in the real world :p
 
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Porrvald

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Sep 12, 2020
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I've never failed a capture with manhunter with a whip except on targets that are impossible to capture. There are a few targets around town that you wouldn't think would be uncaptureable but are aside from the primary bounty target. Also some quest targets.
Does anyone know if the manhunter trait affects the capture chance for the allied npcs or only mc?
 
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khumak

Engaged Member
Oct 2, 2017
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Most of the games, where I have done a turtle start on Grimdark + dying world, prosperity and control are typically trending downward via random events. So, you will still have a very capture rich environment even if you delay a few months before harvesting them.

I think the most questionable choice, I usually do during creation, is to max out intelligence. As far as I know, it doesn't really affect much, and it is mostly done because I don't want to be annoyed later, that I am forever stuck with a halfwit mc.

I also like to think, that if mc can have 90 IQ in the game, maybe one day I could also have that in the real world :p
I actually have the opposite luck with control. In my current game I started on Grimdark with Dying World active and I'm already up to 30 control on day 5. So most of the extra bandits that spawn around town with low control are gone now. That event that boosts control by 12 happened on day 2 for me and there was at least 1 other that boosts control that also happened in the first few days. So your mileage may vary. Prosperity I usually have more issues with, typically I get pestilence and vermin dropping my prosperity into negative territory right off the bat.

As far as I know the only real reason to boost Int to 90+ now is to get Master Tactician. Having low int just means books take longer to read. I got so programmed to train up Int from previous versions that I always do it anyway but I don't put more points into it than required for the books/classes to get me to 90 for Master Tactician.
 

Porrvald

Active Member
Sep 12, 2020
596
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I actually have the opposite luck with control. In my current game I started on Grimdark with Dying World active and I'm already up to 30 control on day 5. So most of the extra bandits that spawn around town with low control are gone now. That event that boosts control by 12 happened on day 2 for me and there was at least 1 other that boosts control that also happened in the first few days. So your mileage may vary. Prosperity I usually have more issues with, typically I get pestilence and vermin dropping my prosperity into negative territory right off the bat.

As far as I know the only real reason to boost Int to 90+ now is to get Master Tactician. Having low int just means books take longer to read. I got so programmed to train up Int from previous versions that I always do it anyway but I don't put more points into it than required for the books/classes to get me to 90 for Master Tactician.
The warship event with 12 added control does happen occasionally, but from my experience Alien vermin and other bad events keeps the trend down. I think you just had an extremely "unlucky" rng in this case and even so, I would expect that it will eventually crawl down to anarchy unless you interfere and do things which affects control in a postive direction.
 

khumak

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Oct 2, 2017
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Decided to play around a little with a Rise start and it definitely requires some painful decisions. Had to take 2 levels of soldier to unlock the Traits in green that are mandatory for me. Massive load isn't really mandatory but it's free, so why not? The traits in red are the least bad options I saw to use to pay for the ones in green. Wildborn is just a bonus with leftover points since I can't afford Brainy without taking some much more unpleasant traits, and it's especially painful since this build is dumb as a box of rocks.

rise2.jpg rise.jpg

The best option I could see to also get Brainy was to drop Wildborn and take both BO and Near-Sighted which would make me a bad hunter. Not the biggest problem but would make progress with the bandits harder.
 
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Porrvald

Active Member
Sep 12, 2020
596
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Decided to play around a little with a Rise start and it definitely requires some painful decisions. Had to take 2 levels of soldier to unlock the Traits in green that are mandatory for me. Massive load isn't really mandatory but it's free, so why not? The traits in red are the least bad options I saw to use to pay for the ones in green. Wildborn is just a bonus with leftover points since I can't afford Brainy without taking some much more unpleasant traits, and it's especially painful since this build is dumb as a box of rocks.

View attachment 3609829 View attachment 3609830
I would definitely have chosen Huge penis instead of wild born. Better to be stupid with a big penis than being stupid without a big penis.
 

khumak

Engaged Member
Oct 2, 2017
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I would definitely have chosen Huge penis instead of wild born. Better to be stupid with a big penis than being stupid without a big penis.
Yeah that's an option. Another interesting option for a Rise start could be something like this if you were ok with saving some of the bigger fights til your mercs are really pumped up to the max. I have no idea if the hardest fights are even theoretically possible with MC contributing zero damage to them, but other than combat this build could ramp up to be good at everything else fairly easily and that workshop and investment bonus is actually pretty significant. Might even be worth dropping something else to grab Manhunter just for the sale price bonus. You can't capture them yourself but your mercs can. Have never actually tried a pacifist build so far. Master Tactician would theoretically still be useful but Master of War wouldn't.

pacifist1.jpg pacifist2.jpg pacifist3.jpg
 
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Mar 5, 2024
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Hilarious, here we go again, about whipping canes and whether the chance is 100% or not with them (and what the base capture chance is). The only think I am writing about that is: The code has not changed from v8.23 to v8.3h to v8.31 about the slave capture (aside from a few more enemies becoming captureable), the rest is still the same and could be found in a post of mine (if I had not deleted that post), but then again everybody has their own opinion about it (eventhough the html-code is crystal clear about it, eventhough it needs some elementary school math to understand it) and some might not realize it, that some capture might fail, because a capture already happened and they were just unable to discern that, eventhough there are different images used for captured and not-captured (but downed) enemies.

Does anyone know if the manhunter trait affects the capture chance for the allied npcs or only mc?
Only mc (info given, as I am fairly certain, that I have not written about that directly in the past).
 
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