Stil996

Conversation Conqueror
Jan 11, 2018
6,507
5,934
Heh you all acting like I am the unreasonable one.

"Well, akchyually, he has not obligation to do anything... so uhm... no contract"

Yeah, you also have no obligation to say thank you after getting your meal. You also have no obligation to help out your friend. No real obligation to leave that seat to a grandma. Not taking 5 secs to tell whats up to the people that are giving you money, when you promised you would, is in my book an asshole move.

But hey, his wife could be having a child while an asteroid is falling down on the earth and the whole mankinds survival is dependent on him not using any form of communication for 3 weeks, how dare I.
It's definitely true that good communication is the key to any good relationship, particularly in business, you have no chance of growing trust without it.

I don't know anything about this Dev, but I know it is a common complaint about many of the Devs that have games here. I think in most cases it is simply a neglected skill, something that few of the Devs have ever developed and a skill that is hard for many to grow, particularly in the face of so many trolls and impatient subscribers (not to mention those that struggle to communicate because of language barriers).

It seems that for many it feels easier to hide and hope that the next update will sooth the angry masses, than face them with excuses and apologies. It's unfortunate that this leads to a vicious cycle of people getting angrier and less willing to forgive, which leads to the Devs getting more depressed & fearful and so more inclined to hide. (not to mention as their confidence shrinks so does productivity, increasing the stresses further)
 
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Count Morado

Conversation Conqueror
Respected User
Jan 21, 2022
7,050
13,161
Heh you all acting like I am the unreasonable one.

"Well, akchyually, he has not obligation to do anything... so uhm... no contract"

Yeah, you also have no obligation to say thank you after getting your meal. You also have no obligation to help out your friend. No real obligation to leave that seat to a grandma. Not taking 5 secs to tell whats up to the people that are giving you money, when you promised you would, is in my book an asshole move.

But hey, his wife could be having a child while an asteroid is falling down on the earth and the whole mankinds survival is dependent on him not using any form of communication for 3 weeks, how dare I.
Yeah, no. I'm not akchyually-ing you. You seem to be the one providing those responses with each of your replies. But I appreciate your projections.
 

UncleFredo

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2020
1,934
3,646
Heh you all acting like I am the unreasonable one.
Yup. Whether or not you're a patron the dev owes you nothing. NOT A DAMN THING. As you mentioned in the part of your response that I dropped, there is no contractual relationship between you and the dev. So feel butt hurt all you like that he was more silent than you'd prefer. Your feelings are your privilege. But in the real world you have the choice. If you're a patron you can pull your support. If you're not you can stop following the game. That's about it.

You might ask yourself a question about why you're getting push back. The reason is this is a very good VN and the dev has generally been very responsive and transparent about his releases. So he's garnered a lot of loyal support. Support that's been earned over the three years and three months that he's devoted to this game.

So don't be surprised that the overwhelming majority of us that follow this VN give him the benefit of the doubt if occasionally he's a few weeks late.
 

Hordragg

Lesser-Known Mesmer
Donor
Compressor
Apr 2, 2019
2,932
10,534
I want the wife and the black couple to finally happen... And I want more Haley, perhaps with a schoolmate... Also the secretary. Need more of her.
Ah, I see you are a grouch of culture as well. Yes, that swinging scene is way overdue, there can never be enough Hailey in one update, and Steph is due for a scene or two. Maybe the dark skinned beauty shown in the very last renders of the last update is a schoolmate of Hailey.
 

jaw1986baby

Chasing Redhead sm0ls
Donor
Jun 2, 2017
2,333
7,130
When a few hundred guys give you money to pursue your hobby, yeah I think you do have some obligation. Maybe not a contractual one, but it is common courtesy to at least let people know what is happening. I mean really, how long does it take to write: sorry guys, got called to work, update might be later.

Took me 5 seconds.

I get when depression hits, even that can be hard, so I am not really harping on that. But if you get called to work then yeah, sorry, there is literally 0 reason not to let people know.
Yup. Whether or not you're a patron the dev owes you nothing. NOT A DAMN THING. As you mentioned in the part of your response that I dropped, there is no contractual relationship between you and the dev. So feel butt hurt all you like that he was more silent than you'd prefer. Your feelings are your privilege. But in the real world you have the choice. If you're a patron you can pull your support. If you're not you can stop following the game. That's about it.

You might ask yourself a question about why you're getting push back. The reason is this is a very good VN and the dev has generally been very responsive and transparent about his releases. So he's garnered a lot of loyal support. Support that's been earned over the three years and three months that he's devoted to this game.

So don't be surprised that the overwhelming majority of us that follow this VN give him the benefit of the doubt if occasionally he's a few weeks late.
OK as a Subscriber:


We give Nef our money and he posts on SubStar about real life BS getting in the way (because it does to all of us) and we all say some form of:

No sweat, take your time, we can wait, we love your work




So don't fukkin speak for us unless that is what you are saying





And Also UncleFredo takes the point on that argument
 

401Grem

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2017
1,792
1,559
When a few hundred guys give you money to pursue your hobby, yeah I think you do have some obligation. Maybe not a contractual one, but it is common courtesy to at least let people know what is happening. I mean really, how long does it take to write: sorry guys, got called to work, update might be later.

Took me 5 seconds.

I get when depression hits, even that can be hard, so I am not really harping on that. But if you get called to work then yeah, sorry, there is literally 0 reason not to let people know.
Devs owe you nothing here.
 

Kulman

Engaged Member
Sep 28, 2017
2,146
5,872
Yep, always love it when people come on a pirate site, download the games, refuse to support the developers, and then complain that the developers aren't updating their pirated games fast enough...


The only thing this game needs is more redheads.
You are right I do not support this dev, but I support many others and if dev had a schedule, stuck to it and communicated, I would.

Actually most patreon subs come from these sites. All the games I support I learned about on this site.

But hey, if you see a dude not let a grandma have a seat, you have no say in that, right? No right to be angry, because you are not the grandma and you did not build that bus?

I call an asshole move when I see one. And yeah, I did expect pushback. Its like going into a discord for a game with valid criticism for it. People who are on that discord probably suck the devs cock, so you are just going into their echo chamber with an opposing opinion.

Look at it this way. The dev thinks his patrons and his supporters are not worth 10 seconds of his time. I will leave it at that. You can go back to your kumbaya, peace.
 

Mahony

Member
Jun 2, 2017
109
270
You are right I do not support this dev, but I support many others and if dev had a schedule, stuck to it and communicated, I would.

Actually most patreon subs come from these sites. All the games I support I learned about on this site.

But hey, if you see a dude not let a grandma have a seat, you have no say in that, right? No right to be angry, because you are not the grandma and you did not build that bus?

I call an asshole move when I see one. And yeah, I did expect pushback. Its like going into a discord for a game with valid criticism for it. People who are on that discord probably suck the devs cock, so you are just going into their echo chamber with an opposing opinion.

Look at it this way. The dev thinks his patrons and his supporters are not worth 10 seconds of his time. I will leave it at that. You can go back to your kumbaya, peace.

Mate there's no point arguing with some people, they think devs can do no wrong because they like the game. There's still people defending Ecchi Sensei to this day despite there's being no update in over a year. Like I was a subscriber to Nef and a good few pages back I've even defended him but now the delays and the fading in and out of activity is getting a bit too much.
 

Dir.Fred

Member
Sep 20, 2021
143
250
Not everything has to be a transaction. Not everything has to be a virtual blood contract where expectations must be met or one party has defaulted and betrayed some notional trust.

Not every vote of sympathy is kissing a dev's ass. It's really a shame some people have to see it that way.

Sometimes it's just good old patience and empathy; prized virtues in a world rife with the entitled and over-privileged don't you think? Worth striving to be our better selves for, I reckon.
 

Cartageno

Devoted Member
Dec 1, 2019
8,571
14,567
The dev did not think about it because of other priorities. Yes, he should have, and it would have been physically possible, but he didn't. However that does not mean "does not care", sometimes you forget about tasks when urgent stuff comes round. I forgot to set my status to "absent" at work when suddenly private stuff occured and I had to leave, not because I didn't care but because I had other things on my mind.
 

WALTR

New Member
Dec 4, 2017
9
13
Unfortunately, it's been almost a week since his last post, and it is still quiet on the Patreon side of things. But I am (pretty) sure he is still typing away trying to get this update out.
Yea... i know but at this point kinda used to long updates honestly just hoping its not abandoned *crosses fingers*
 

Dir.Fred

Member
Sep 20, 2021
143
250
I would just like to mention one further point, from the perspective of an old developer (although not -yet- in any F95-related sense).

Communication is, contrary to popular belief, not zero effort. Especially for developers.

For most, it's just stream-of-consciousness-direct-to-keyboard-clickity-click-no-brainer. For any maker/creator with an online 'following', it is very, very different. Emotionally, psychologically and occasionally physically.

Even a sentence takes way more time you than you give it credit for and, crucially, way more emotional capital. This is something that I really think only experienced creators understand.

Just coming up with the right words to say in itself takes way more effort than the actual act of posting. Especially after a long period of silence - in fact the effort required tends to grow exponentially over time. Because, unlike your posts, the creator's posts will be dissected and subject to commentary. And they know it.

It is intense to feel the immense obligation of having hundreds or thousands of people waiting to tear apart every word you utter in the hopes of either a) finding a cool bit of information or b) finding justification for their current grudge.

It is, in fact, immensely stressful - physically so. The stress sits behind your thoughts, hanging over you at all times, making it virtually impossible to relax, which ironically is precisely what you need to do to get back to business.

If you think about both perspectives using extreme examples, this makes a lot of sense. When you read something offensive on Internet, it's just some faceless troll and is easily ignored. But if a celebrity says the same thing on twitter, damn they're an idiot; that's career-ending cancellation for sure. So there are two identical posts: one is completely ignored and one has massive consequences.

I have ignored communities myself and I daresay I will do it again. I'm not proud of it, but it happens. Sometimes I have excellent legitimate excuses. Sometimes I feel like I don't (although I probably do).

Sometimes I just, really, really need to shut the whole world out for like, a while. It is neither a discourtesy nor is it disrespect. It's humanity.

Let me try to use a non-developer analogy.

When was the last time you rang your mother? You know she appreciates it every time you do and you definitely love her. But when did you ring her? Ring her right now. No? Got something better to do, right? But you love her. And it's your mother ffs. So ring her. But you won't. Because somehow, somewhere in your brain that feels, quite paradoxically, like a stressful and oppressive task.

Of course, well, usually, when you do ring her it's great and actually turns out to be cathartic and restorative for both of you.

I'm hoping that, in that example, you can recognize some of that humanity; some glimmer of a relatable human experience.

With experience and maturity you may begin to recognize those moments in peoples' lives and, if it's not ruining any families, causing anyone any harm or directly damaging you in any particular way, maybe just stfu and back off. You can almost certainly just get on with your life in the quiet hope that something may change. Empathy and patience are, after all, both free.

As somebody's grandma no doubt used to say, "If you've got nothing nice to say, better to say nothing at all."

:cool:

P.S. Seriously, call your parents. :)
 
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Turret

Engaged Member
Jun 23, 2017
3,758
6,468
Back to discussing the actual game; what are those two scheming back there? Hailey and her new friend, I mean. I am dying to find out.

View attachment 1677061
I have to agree with you, those two in the background seem pretty conspirational, Hailey is definitely planning something, but will it succeed? This scene seems to be happening at Rock´s home, so what can they plan?
But there are some other things to mention, the MC´s sister Angela is with them, as is Sarah, but Jen is not there. In addition, Amanda, who is relatively reserved among the female cast, is wearing a pretty bold bikini for her standards.
 

Master of Puppets

Conversation Conqueror
Oct 5, 2017
7,368
9,738
I have to agree with you, those two in the background seem pretty conspirational, Hailey is definitely planning something, but will it succeed? This scene seems to be happening at Rock´s home, so what can they plan?
But there are some other things to mention, the MC´s sister Angela is with them, as is Sarah, but Jen is not there. In addition, Amanda, who is relatively reserved among the female cast, is wearing a pretty bold bikini for her standards.
I don't see Amanda there, where is she?
 
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