If morality is not subjective then when do various cultures and religions have different moral standards? Half the kink tags on this site are against someone's moral code.
- Thread starter TheRedMyst
- Start date
- Apr 26, 2020
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OH HELL NO!
Get the eff out of here with your logic and cool reasoning! that shit has NO place here!
/s
oh wow that reveal...
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Sorry, sometimes my eyes roll so far they accidentally see the logic centers of the brain and I forget where I am.
NA is not a shining beacon of light on the hill, it's half the reason everything else is a shithole. Vassals are continually plundered and kept down by tribute and taxation. They are economically and technologically deliberately sabotaged which creates such disparity where modern technology is pretty common in NA, while vassal provinces are absolute backwater shitholes.Yeah and then you've got barbarian raiders to the north, pirates in the south, and backwards superstition everywhere else. Like it or not New Antioch is the only place with any stability in the region and the only place as far as we've seen with any technological infrastructure, you literally risk burning and destroying the cure for mankind if you want to take them down. Let's just forget those unplesant facts when it doesn't suit us I guess?
It would be a different story if NA actually made efforts to improve things in provinces, but they don't. They merely use them to fuel decadence of Empire elite.
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First of all it's not that easy to immigrate to NA.What the heck are you talking about? Did you literally not play through the sequence in the first chapter talking to Aquila? You're not a foreigner first off, you are a member of the empire and if you had actually been paying attention to that conversation back in the first chapter you'd know New Antioch is a free city for anyone to relocate and move to within the empire, it's why places like Aqua Palma have a population deficit, too many people move to New Antioch and it leaves a gaping hole in the provinces to where they have to import slaves. It would have been EASY to get into, even under an alias, if the MC didn't have a damn wanted poster calling for his arrest rather then sneaking in by fishing boat when people would be on the lookout for contraband or as it turned out in this case with Gaius and Enzo, waiting for a delivery. It was a horrible plan, one completely unnecessary when MC could literally have just gone through the front door otherwise
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Secondly, You missed a point of how NA immigration works. It's a circular scheme where they sell slaves to people deprived vassals combined with right of slaves to eventually earn freedom. When slaves earn freedom they leave for NA creating a constant demand for new slaves to be sold to vassals. It's another money making/plundering scheme of empire elite where they get both money and population.
Like you said... it's a cover story. The village knows MC didn't do it. As for Empire being falsely accused, it doesn't matter for me. It's like accidentally accusing serial killer of one extra murder. Oooops, you're getting executed anyway.
Look, Dante is obviously making mistakes. I'm not saying he's a good guy or a bad guy. I'm just saying there is presently no evidence he's trying to get MC killed. We'll see how it goes in the future when more content is introduced. MC will no doubt at some point confront Dante because he now knows who killed Patrius and then we'll see what Dante is planning.
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And I never said it didn't, did I ever say in any aspect of my answer that it was some perfect utopia? No, what I said was that it was the only stable government in that region, which it is, and that it was the only thing with the actual technological infrastructure to do anything like develop the cure for the R Virus cause Dante sure as hell isn't gonna be able to do that in Aqua Palma if he does succeed, so everything I actually said true... Sorry I don't subscribe to burning the whole shitty house down when there's no alternate shelter to keep us from freezing to death in the cold once it's gone
I think you're doing this deliberately, I mean you just have to be right? This is not immigration for MC, he's actually a citizen of the Empire, as are those freed slaves you mentioned and if we went back to that conversation the ease of work transit to New Antioch was never wholly exclusive to former slaves but people from the provinces in general. It's s freedom of movement policy period, with former slaves leaving being a cherry on top of it. So again foreigners might be have a hard time getting in but that's not the same within the empire itself or again you'd never see the population disparity with the provinces if the delay was that bad for them as well.
Are you just deliberately not reading my posts? Because it really really feels like that. Read this very carefully, The cover story doesn't matter for the village, it matters for the MC when he infiltrates New Antioch! You have literally just ignored the entire argument again instead of what I was actually talking about, which was the arrest warrant/death sentence New Antioch put on the MC for killing his father! And what did Dante say to justify this cover story? Why, to protect the MC, because since New Antioch was clearly 'guilty' of the crime they wouldn't kill the MC since they'd 'know' he was innocent, right!?
But hey, do some math for me will you? What happens when you add that to Dante knowing New Antioch didn't kill their dad, since he actually did it? It equals Dante's entire argument for making up the cover story being BS, and was in fact going to get the MC killed as soon as he stepped into New Antioch!
That is the evidence! I don't know why you keep just ignoring that evidence like it doesn't exist even though I repeatedly state it. But I will state it again, what is wrong with accusing New Antioch of the dad's death has nothing to actually do with New Antioch, it's about him lying to Aqua Palma and sending them to go get killed for a lie which they would never do if they knew the truth and most importantly, it sends the MC to his death because his cover story blaming the MC for it made him a wanted man with a death sentence hanging over his head! Please actually read and address the point instead of just wholesale missing it this time, please?
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I already explained everything in my previous posts, so I'm not going to waste time re-explaining anything. You're just going in circles now.And I never said it didn't, did I ever say in any aspect of my answer that it was some perfect utopia? No, what I said was that it was the only stable government in that region, which it is, and that it was the only thing with the actual technological infrastructure to do anything like develop the cure for the R Virus cause Dante sure as hell isn't gonna be able to do that in Aqua Palma if he does succeed, so everything I actually said true... Sorry I don't subscribe to burning the whole shitty house down when there's no alternate shelter to keep us from freezing to death in the cold once it's gone
I think you're doing this deliberately, I mean you just have to be right? This is not immigration for MC, he's actually a citizen of the Empire, as are those freed slaves you mentioned and if we went back to that conversation the ease of work transit to New Antioch was never wholly exclusive to former slaves but people from the provinces in general. It's s freedom of movement policy period, with former slaves leaving being a cherry on top of it. So again foreigners might be have a hard time getting in but that's not the same within the empire itself or again you'd never see the population disparity with the provinces if the delay was that bad for them as well.
Are you just deliberately not reading my posts? Because it really really feels like that. Read this very carefully, The cover story doesn't matter for the village, it matters for the MC when he infiltrates New Antioch! You have literally just ignored the entire argument again instead of what I was actually talking about, which was the arrest warrant/death sentence New Antioch put on the MC for killing his father! And what did Dante say to justify this cover story? Why, to protect the MC, because since New Antioch was clearly 'guilty' of the crime they wouldn't kill the MC since they'd 'know' he was innocent, right!?
But hey, do some math for me will you? What happens when you add that to Dante knowing New Antioch didn't kill their dad, since he actually did it? It equals Dante's entire argument for making up the cover story being BS, and was in fact going to get the MC killed as soon as he stepped into New Antioch!
That is the evidence! I don't know why you keep just ignoring that evidence like it doesn't exist even though I repeatedly state it. But I will state it again, what is wrong with accusing New Antioch of the dad's death has nothing to actually do with New Antioch, it's about him lying to Aqua Palma and sending them to go get killed for a lie which they would never do if they knew the truth and most importantly, it sends the MC to his death because his cover story blaming the MC for it made him a wanted man with a death sentence hanging over his head! Please actually read and address the point instead of just wholesale missing it this time, please?
Are you serious? I mean really? Ignore the first two portions and focus solely, solely on the last part. At what point in any of your previous posts did you address the cover story being a literal death sentence for the MC by Dante as soon as he went into New Antioch? You said some nonsense about Aqua Palma or New Antioch being falsely blamed, which had NOTHING to do with that point which was the main betrayal. Literally sending the MC to go get executed and killed sounds like text book betrayal to me, so I'm concerned you seem to think that's not even worth talking about. So no, don't say you explained anything when you clearly avoided the entire point, just seriously stop acting like you said anything about it when you clearly didn't.
- Sep 16, 2020
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Does this game have magic, superpowers or transformation? Just from the into it seems so but, I've been wrong before.
Thats an interesting way to recognize youre wrong
Are you serious? I mean really? Ignore the first two portions and focus solely, solely on the last part. At what point in any of your previous posts did you address the cover story being a literal death sentence for the MC by Dante as soon as he went into New Antioch? You said some nonsense about Aqua Palma or New Antioch being falsely blamed, which had NOTHING to do with that point which was the main betrayal. Literally sending the MC to go get executed and killed sounds like text book betrayal to me, so I'm concerned you seem to think that's not even worth talking about. So no, don't say you explained anything when you clearly avoided the entire point, just seriously stop acting like you said anything about it when you clearly didn't.
Sigh, I didn't ignore anything. I meant it in general. As I said, I explained everything several times and backed it up by screenshots from the game. The game says what it says.In short:
There is no definitive evidence Dante is trying to kill MC yet in my game. Future updates may or may not provide some.
MC needs to get into NA quickly, otherwise it would take months or years [more on this at the end]
He needs to definitively cut ties with Aqua Palma otherwise he would not be trusted in NA and would get nowhere as a spy/infiltrator
Additionally, Faustina already wants MC killed because she doesn't want him as a potential successor to Patrius since she perceives him as a more dangerous person than Dante. That's the real reason Aquila was supposed to kill him. It would be actual suicide for MC to just waltz into NA as an immigrant for no reason. She would probably kill him on day one. Since he no longer has ties to Aqua Palma he no longer represents that threat.
Frankly, I'm not sure why you're so fixated on him, but discussion about Dante is largely pointless for one simple reason. He has points. That is to say, his behavior depends on player input. If you treat him like shit, it's possible he will reciprocate and maybe even try to murder MC. On the other hand, if you treat him better you will likely get better treatment. Everyone will probably be able to adjust his behavior.
In my game I treated him well and as of now, 0.5 update, it does not look like he's trying to kill MC. He's jealous, maybe depressed and suffers from inferiority complex because everyone always had higher opinion of MC rather than him, but that is understandable. It could not have been easy being compared to MC. Dante is unaware MC is basically bio-engineered superhuman and in fact no one can compete with MC.
I'm not going to endlessly argue over the same opinion you have because you don't like what you see.
Going by the tone of your last post or two we're done discussing anything in a normal way, so before this turns into usual internet shitposting, I'll wave goodbye to you here.
Now, before I throw you to the deepest depths of blacklist along with your buddies, here is one last hint. There is no freedom of movement you speak of in your idealized happy going version of the empire. Provinces are basically vassals who have to pay tribute. You seem to be confusing the city/province of New Antioch with entire empire and immigration into the city is very much restricted for credible reasons. As usual, I'll back it up by screenshots from the game.
/bye
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Also, in order for Dante to want MC dead, he have to know he'd get caught. I think he sent him on a dangerous mission, so a risk of death, but not a hope for it. And the way MC got caught was not like the guards were tipped off. Plot twist: Dante spent years training the dog to sniff the crate to draw suspicion.
If Dante wanted MC dead, wouldn't he frame, arrest, and execute MC in AP?
- Jun 30, 2023
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There is a character that has some sort of future prediction powers, and there are some characters that are enhanced psychically and mentally.
The ending for this chapter was phenomenal, again, great storytelling. Don't click the spoiler if you haven't finished this chapter.
Excellent storytelling.
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Excellent storytelling.
- Oct 30, 2019
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- May 15, 2018
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Dante was quick to jump to the conclusion that the empire had murdered his father and turned everyone against it in a bid to conceal his crime. Moreover, the only point of inventing this false story accusing the MC of being the perpetrator of the murder is to break the ties between the two men and Aqua Palma in case things go wrong, but this puts a target on our character's back right from the start, which for an infiltration and intelligence-gathering mission isn't a great thing, let's face it. So while it's not clear that Dante deliberately set out to kill his adopted brother, we can nonetheless conclude that he wanted to create a diversion for his brother and the whole of Aqua Palma, to cover his tracks, to get his brother out of the way by sending him on a mission that is highly uncertain at best, if not suicidal, and by doing so, he gets rid of a pretender to the Princeps throne who, whether the MC likes it or not, could have raised doubts among the people of Aqua Palma.
Admittedly, Dante isn't particularly clever, but he's probably savvy enough not to want to stir up dissension around him as soon as he's invested as the new Princeps of Aqua Palma. I think he's sufficiently aware that he has a relative legitimacy and that some people would have preferred his brother to take charge, as in their eyes he's already proved his worth. As for the rest, yes, I too feel that these are mere speculations, hot air and theses that don't hold a single bit of water.
I'm not sure Gaius knows, but it's possible. I think the discussions we've had with him were mainly intended to test us, and check that our character is possibly suitable to succeed him one day, that's how I see it.
Indeed, it's a fairly common trope in SF and dystopian works in general, and will no doubt pose a certain ethical dilemma for many of the characters in the plot. I share your view that Luciana's dissociative personality disorder will undoubtedly play a role in this army-machine business, and shed light on how she came to create it. I suspect that as far as Faustina is involved, she sees these machines as a solution to maintaining her power and ensuring the empire's future against the declining birth rate and the threat of extinction of the human species. It would be interesting to know how the flawed relationship between Faustina and her children led them to develop such psychiatric disorders, and what role this played in the whole story.
It seems that Milena has been involved in experiments on human beings, possibly against her will, and perhaps she has a role to play in this machine soldier business too. She's not necessarily a bad person, but her inability to read and take into account the feelings of others, and her lack of moral restraint in conducting experiments for the sole sake of her scientific curiosity, certainly puts her in a rather gray moral position. In any case, many of the characters seem to have shortcomings, if not ambiguous personalities. And it's a good thing for the storytelling to have characters who are ambivalent in terms of morality and personality, it makes the whole thing that much richer and more interesting. They're all imperfect, and much more convincing that way.
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- Nov 15, 2022
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I think Faustina might just be aware about Luciana's "chaos" personality, and even uses that to her advantage on occasion (like creating the cyborg slaves), but never told her.
And just an FYI, it's not Faustina's "flawed" relationship with her children that caused them psychological disorders (though it probably didn't help either), the in-game lore book says that Faustina's unorthodox method of conception is the primary culprit (AFAIK, Faustina refused to get "naturally" inseminated by her husband, the now deceased Emperor of NA, as she considered him disgusting in that way - so she arranged for a surrogate pregnancy, where another woman was implanted with her fertilized eggs). It's also why Milena talked Faustina into keeping MC around, as he could be her last chance to "naturally" conceive a proper, biological child (due to her age & virus).
I'm not sure I disagree with much of this, but it is fiction. So, I think more like James Bond, the spy everyone knows. Also, personally, I think Dante is a twit and don't really care what he thinks.
- May 15, 2018
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I was aware that the Empress's children had been conceived in an irregular manner, and it's likely that this contributed in part to their psychiatric disorders, although I didn't know the details. In my opinion, the driving force or catalyst behind their psychological problems lies in the toxic relationship they have maintained with their mother throughout their growth. Again, I guess it's a matter of perception or opinion. Of course we can always quibble, debate and thus end up going round in circles about which phenomenon or factor has more impact than the other if it pleases you. x)
The fact that a work is fictional in no way diminishes the need for a story to be coherent. I do agree that Dante is fundamentally a person lacking in judgment, prone to succumb to various temptations, to get angry rather quickly and to be easily manipulated. That's why I've noticed a few inconsistencies with the spy mission/arena and Luciana's dialogue (mentioned by others here), in which she hints at her double persona. Maybe, after all, the developer was simply too keen on the story arc around the arena, and didn't care much about the details of how to get his main character there - my guess. Perhaps the dev just wanted a dramatic death, a semblance of downfall or back to scratch for the MC and a “Gladiator”-style plot revolving around a struggle for survival in the arena.I'm not sure I disagree with much of this, but it is fiction. So, I think more like James Bond, the spy everyone knows. Also, personally, I think Dante is a twit and don't really care what he thinks.
But I don't know, I'm just pointing out inconsistencies and making assumptions. I don't hold the absolute truth.
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I was talking about Dante wanting him dead aspect. And, again, people accept James Bond as entertaining stories, despite not being remotely covert.
As for the focus on the arena, I suppose we have to see if that plot continues. I doubt it goes back there.