3.90 star(s) 61 Votes

Meridian

Active Member
Jan 24, 2018
975
3,413
Kind of agree that vanilla mc make sex scenes a bit bland. It feels like the most exciting sex scene so far was aunt with that other guy since they at least had some basic dirty talk going on. Like with Bella mc could have roleplayed a bit. She always goes on about how she fuck guys for information so let mc propose scenario where she needs to get some information out of him and he would make her work for it, that would make things at least a little bit spicier.

I get what writer says about equal enjoyment and stuff but this is video game and not real life. Here we dont have physical stimulation or emotional connection so its just hard to feel vanilla sex scenes in this game. Need more spice or sugar as right now it feels like characters just go through the motions during sex. Since the game has kind and ruthless routes it makes sense to have options for our mc to be more selfish and demanding during sex if you go ruthless route. :unsure:

edit: Also please add some text during animations. It feels very awkward to have just animations without any text during them.
 
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Silk_Ari

Active Member
Game Developer
Dec 21, 2017
710
1,869
Kind of agree that vanilla mc make sex scenes a bit too bland. It feels like the most exciting sex scene so far was aunt with that other guy since they at least had some basic dirty talk going on. Like with Bella mc could have roleplayed a bit. She always goes ...
The entire point of developing the MC's personality ruthless Vs leader was just that to develop his personality... He started as a blank slate and is slowly being formed to your choices. It's like you expect him to be totally out of character within 5 chapters because he made one "ruthless" decision. You need the build up in order to reap the rewards IMHO. Will he become more dominant in sex scenes as his personally changes...of course. I think we're just starting to reach that point. Where his choices now actively impact his personality.
 

kurupt87

Member
Jul 23, 2017
125
157
If I might advice you and rev_01, there is a handy little button called "ignore" - it could be useful sometimes;)
I dont think you will get much by discussing your game with that particular member.
I really dont mind if people have their opinions, it's fine really, it's THEIR opinions. I welcome peoples feedback ... when it's at least constructive. I mean people will have their own biased opinions of EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING. It's not believable to him, well okay then move on to another game I guess? What can I tell you. We'll agree to disagree. I appreciate his suggestions but it's not like I'm going to all of sudden halt the game and rewrite it to fit what he believes the game should be. I mean if he wants that, then he just has to go make his own god damn game so I can criticize it lmao (Hey it's fair game). So what ever. He argued his points, I argued mine. Not much more to say about it.

edit: Frankly I'm surprised people have the energy to argue and willingness to write such long posts about stuff they dislike It's fascinating to me.
Everything I've written has been constructive. My posts are part of a group of perhaps 20 constuctive posts in the entire thread. The majority being "omg its great" "omg its shit" "omg whens the update" and then posts from people asking and answering questions about the game. None of those are constructive.
I've listed perceived problems, listed why I think that they're problematic and then even listed possible solutions. I struggle to imagine how more constructive I could be.
Non-constructive criticism would be, "it's shit," which I don't even think it is. I just think it could be better.
 

Silk_Ari

Active Member
Game Developer
Dec 21, 2017
710
1,869
Everything I've written has been constructive. My posts are part of a group of perhaps 20 constuctive posts in the entire thread. The majority being "omg its great" "omg its shit" "omg whens the update" and then posts from people asking and answering questions about the game....
Never said your posts werent constructive criticism? I was not referring to your posts specifically. I also said we both argued our points and we'll agree to disagree! (Also said I appreciate your suggestions)
 

kurupt87

Member
Jul 23, 2017
125
157
Never said your posts werent constructive criticism? I was not referring to your posts specifically. I also said we both argued our points and we'll agree to disagree! (Also said I appreciate your suggestions)
Fair comeback, my response was mostly at the other guy (he was pretty rude).
I guess you did rebuke him in your own response, I shouldn't have included you in my own.
And yeah, what you said is more or less all I could want. It's certainly more than I would expect, my default low opinion of people tends to make me assume that they're more like the other guy than they're like you.
Good luck with the game, hopefully what I've said might be useful one day. And with your next.
 
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Abhai

Devoted Member
Sep 12, 2018
9,397
38,263
Fair comeback, my response was mostly at the other guy (he was pretty rude).
I guess you did rebuke him in your own response, I shouldn't have included you in my own.
And yeah, what you said is more or less all I could want. It's certainly more than I would expect, my default low opinion of people tends to make me assume that they're more like the other guy than they're like you...
well, yep, sorry if thats sounded rude to you, i would reformulate it, if ive knew you had such a low opinion of people, yet such a high opinion of you.
your posts, or should i say the walls of text with your "thoughts", have started to strangle this thread a bit.
yet, if dev can endure it, there is no problems at all.
anyway, glad you have found this game/thread entertaining enough to go to such texting/posting frenzy as you have did.
god luck to you and your further advices to the devs around here, and who knows perhaps one day we will be posting kinda similar posts in your very own game thread.
that is something to look for surely.
cheers
 

mordred93

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2017
1,574
2,397
Why cant we all just get along lmao.
Because opinions are like assholes - everyone has one - and everyone else's stinks. Some people want to sit behind their keyboard and try to watch the world burn. If someone doesn't believe what they believe, they are wrong as they can never even contemplate that somewhere in the world, someone might think differently than them. So they just sit there and push an agenda and stick to it, with no repercussions what so ever. As a modern society, we have gotten away from the ability to punch someone in the mouth when they say something so outrageous that it causes offense.

My favorite scene of revenge was in the movie "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back". At the end, they got a million dollars and they got a list of people who logged into the movie website and left stupid, trolling remarks. They showed up at someone's house and a 15 year old boy answered. They asked, "Are you Troll 93894 and did you say on this day on this website that Jay and Silent Bob are gay and suck each other's dicks." Kid was like "Yeah" and they proceeded to curb stomp him. Jay spits on him and says "How gay is that"
 

rev_01

Member
Game Developer
Apr 25, 2020
220
600
No, not true.
The MC is already sexually experienced, he's not the usual idiot virgin character.
Therefore, if he has any dominant tendencies they will already have shown themselves in his sexuality.
As he doesn't show any in the bedroom, this means he doesn't have any.
This means that he will never be able to rise to the top of criminal organisations like those in this game because he doesn't have the necessary inclination or personality.
UNLESS, he goes through a character destroyingly traumatic change. And that'd break the guy, make him a psycho.


All of that is fine on the leader/love/caring path, where sex is an expression of the emotional bond between the characters.
It is not fine on the ruthless/lust path, where the sex should have little to no emotional component at all and is about control.
On the leader/love path the MC cares about the women, so give-take in the bedroom is expected (though there is always a dominant partner, it is far less explicit).
On the ruthless/lust path the MC should not care about the women, they're just more notch marks on his bedpost.
It's a failing on the games part to differentiate between the two paths because, as far as I can tell, they're identical in their lewd scenes' tone.


No, again you fail to understand.
It is possible for a man to be both dominant and good.
Because, shock horror, most women want their man to be dominant.
A good dom makes sure their sub enjoys him/herself before the dom does.
BUT, our MC will happily fuck everything that walks which (if you're trying to be realistic) precludes him really giving a shit about them to begin with. (If you want him to be honourable/loyal and that be an inherent part of his character, that must be reflected in the choices/repurcussions given to the player, ie if he cheats he'd choose to break up with his girlfriend himself with no input from her - maybe she could talk him into staying around because she doesn't mind but the only personailty so far that would realistically do that is Donna).
So, he'd make sure that they have enough fun that they become a fuck buddy or remain friendly so that they don't cause him problems (opposition daughters, cop lady) but outside of that, 0 shits given.
I’mma be honest. I feel like you barely ready my post because when you’re talking about ruthless and leader and the scenes varying depending on that I literally talked about that in one of the parts you quoted. It does not make any sense for the MC to be part of the family business for a few weeks/months and instantly be this dom guy. He’s not going to instantly be ruthless like “oh im a crime lord now guess I better start being extremely ruthless and ignore my morals just cos,” no thats not how it works. The story will need to progress more for us to see the MC like this.

Also in a previous post, you said the male’s wants/needs should always come first in the bedroom. Mate, I don’t know if you’ve ever had a girlfriend, but I’m 100% certain most women would not be fine with this. Women have wants/needs too and saying that yours come first is saying that you’re more important and hinting towards that women exist for your sexual pleasure, which is wrong on so many levels. You also said in this post that most women prefer their men to be dom, and again I have to ask, have you ever had a girlfriend or are you just basing this off porn and porn games? My girlfriend doesn’t like dom, nor do literally any of my female friends. I think I know one woman out of literally over a hundred who likes dom and i also know a lot of my mates and even just people i meet online, their gf’s don’t like dom either. It’s not as common as you think for women to like dom.

In this game, we will always prioritise equality in the bedroom. Both partner’s needs are equally important and they will both get what they want. The MC will not be a sub, but he will not be a dom either (except for a few scenes). The game was never tagged male dom so if you were expecting it, you’re looking in the wrong place for it. I suggest you find another game for dom because you’ll have to wait a while for dom in this game and do it on the ruthless path which is basically the asshole path. I don’t think you understand for the most part what this game is. Yes, it’s a crime game but one of the main focuses of the game is showing how the MC is very different from Frank and how he will toughen up but be a different type of mob boss, unless he’s on the ruthless path, then he will develop to be similar to Frank.
 
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kurupt87

Member
Jul 23, 2017
125
157
I’mma be honest. I feel like you barely ready my post because when you’re talking about ruthless and leader and the scenes varying depending on that I literally talked about that in one of the parts you quoted.
I promise that I did, I just still disagree for the most part. I'll try to be precise in hope that you can understand where I am coming from. I also hope nobody else (not directed at you rev_01) starts getting pissy about our furthering this conversation about the game. /eyeroll
It does not make any sense for the MC to be part of the family business for a few weeks/months and instantly be this dom guy. He’s not going to instantly be ruthless like “oh im a crime lord now guess I better start being extremely ruthless and ignore my morals just cos,” no thats not how it works. The story will need to progress more for us to see the MC like this.
Agreed, if by "dom guy" you mean the perfect alpha guy - late 30s early 40s, physically fit & strong, smart, well groomed and smartly dressed, doesn't make mistakes, rich & powerful, sexually very skilled, women cannot help but cream themselves with him etc
No, the MC should not be that guy.
But, he can still be dominant, he'll just be a bad one. That's when you're a bad dom, when you're young. That's when you're a bad everything, because you've not yet learned how to be good at anything.
This is when he'd be calling her names that go too far, spanking too hard or too soft etc. He hasn't learned how to read people yet, nor how to be good in bed.

Also in a previous post, you said the male’s wants/needs should always come first in the bedroom.
I've said that about a dom's internal perspective (which of the MC we get), not all males.
A dom puts his or her needs above the subs needs.
However, he or she understands that the sub needs to get pleasure too or they won't come back for more. And, if there's a relationship too then obviously there's love too, and they can have intimate sex as well as lustful sex where the dom guarantees that his or her love enjoys him/herself too.
This promotion of the dom/MC's needs above the women's is especially true for the MC as he is fucking (or trying to) or lusting over everything that walks past, including his mother and sister. This implies that he doesn't care about most or any of them. Because if you care about someone you exclusively date them and you don't cheat on them.
Because the desire to fuck as many partners as possible is either
a. an aspect of collection and control (bedpost notches) and therefore domination OR
b. an aspect of pleasing (wanting to be loved, to pleasure and please the partners) and therefore submission.
Neither is wrong for the young and single to be about the town doing but, they're different and for the high mileage fuck bois and girls it is absolutely one or the other.

Mate, I don’t know if you’ve ever had a girlfriend, but I’m 100% certain most women would not be fine with this. Women have wants/needs too and saying that yours come first is saying that you’re more important and hinting towards that women exist for your sexual pleasure, which is wrong on so many levels. You also said in this post that most women prefer their men to be dom, and again I have to ask, have you ever had a girlfriend or are you just basing this off porn and porn games? My girlfriend doesn’t like dom, nor do literally any of my female friends. I think I know one woman out of literally over a hundred who likes dom and i also know a lot of my mates and even just people i meet online, their gf’s don’t like dom either. It’s not as common as you think for women to like dom.
Whether people admit to liking it or not is irrelevant. Women like to be dominated, this is a fact that has long been known. The most recent casual proof of this is a little book and then film adaptation you might have heard of called 50 Shades of Grey, the 5th best selling book of all time and the fastest selling paperback of all time. And those stats reached with a 99% female audience (aka max target audience is half the population, half the prospective audience of any other book). Indicative, you could say.

In this game, we will always prioritise equality in the bedroom. Both partner’s needs are equally important and they will both get what they want.
But that is very foolish because only one of the "people" with choices and needs is real, the player. Whose needs and choices are represented by the MC.
Your story has the main protagonist be an up and coming criminal overlord - this attracts players that are attracted by the fantasy of being someone like that. Someone that has overwhelming power, is hugely corrupt, happy to ruin innocent lives for little to no reason, happy to murder his enemies and will use all of these things to get what he wants.
This is who the protagonist you guys chose has to become.
And if we can't see a seed of that future evil bastard in the current protag then it's weird and a problem.
The MC will not be a sub, but he will not be a dom either (except for a few scenes). The game was never tagged male dom so if you were expecting it, you’re looking in the wrong place for it. I suggest you find another game for dom because you’ll have to wait a while for dom in this game and do it on the ruthless path which is basically the asshole path. I don’t think you understand for the most part what this game is. Yes, it’s a crime game but one of the main focuses of the game is showing how the MC is very different from Frank and how he will toughen up but be a different type of mob boss, unless he’s on the ruthless path, then he will develop to be similar to Frank.
Ok I guess, but why make the protag a baby Capo then? Why not simply make him a businessman, a lawyer, a doctor or any other high status person that doesn't have "evil cunt" as an integral core component of the role? Strikes me as bizarre that you plan to write a character that is simultaneously able to dominate and command the respect and obedience of all the most evil and depraved people in the city whilst also remaining a Nice Guy™.
-
I hope that is clearer? And helps you understand my perspective a bit more.
 

rev_01

Member
Game Developer
Apr 25, 2020
220
600
I promise that I did, I just still disagree for the most part. I'll try to be precise in hope that you can understand where I am coming from. I also hope nobody else (not directed at you rev_01) starts getting pissy about our furthering this conversation about the game. /eyeroll

Agreed, if by "dom guy" you mean the perfect alpha guy - late 30s early 40s, physically fit & strong, smart, well groomed and smartly dressed, doesn't make mistakes, rich & powerful, sexually very skilled, women cannot help but cream themselves with him etc
No, the MC should not be that guy.
But, he can still be dominant, he'll just be a bad one. That's when you're a bad dom, when you're young. That's when you're a bad everything, because you've not yet learned how to be good at anything.
This is when he'd be calling her names that go too far, spanking too hard or too soft etc. He hasn't learned how to read people yet, nor how to be good in bed.


I've said that about a dom's internal perspective (which of the MC we get), not all males.
A dom puts his or her needs above the subs needs.
However, he or she understands that the sub needs to get pleasure too or they won't come back for more. And, if there's a relationship too then obviously there's love too, and they can have intimate sex as well as lustful sex where the dom guarantees that his or her love enjoys him/herself too.
This promotion of the dom/MC's needs above the women's is especially true for the MC as he is fucking (or trying to) or lusting over everything that walks past, including his mother and sister. This implies that he doesn't care about most or any of them. Because if you care about someone you exclusively date them and you don't cheat on them.
Because the desire to fuck as many partners as possible is either
a. an aspect of collection and control (bedpost notches) and therefore domination OR
b. an aspect of pleasing (wanting to be loved, to pleasure and please the partners) and therefore submission.
Neither is wrong for the young and single to be about the town doing but, they're different and for the high mileage fuck bois and girls it is absolutely one or the other.


Whether people admit to liking it or not is irrelevant. Women like to be dominated, this is a fact that has long been known. The most recent casual proof of this is a little book and then film adaptation you might have heard of called 50 Shades of Grey, the 5th best selling book of all time and the fastest selling paperback of all time. And those stats reached with a 99% female audience (aka max target audience is half the population, half the prospective audience of any other book). Indicative, you could say.


But that is very foolish because only one of the "people" with choices and needs is real, the player. Whose needs and choices are represented by the MC.
Your story has the main protagonist be an up and coming criminal overlord - this attracts players that are attracted by the fantasy of being someone like that. Someone that has overwhelming power, is hugely corrupt, happy to ruin innocent lives for little to no reason, happy to murder his enemies and will use all of these things to get what he wants.
This is who the protagonist you guys chose has to become.
And if we can't see a seed of that future evil bastard in the current protag then it's weird and a problem.

Ok I guess, but why make the protag a baby Capo then? Why not simply make him a businessman, a lawyer, a doctor or any other high status person that doesn't have "evil cunt" as an integral core component of the role? Strikes me as bizarre that you plan to write a character that is simultaneously able to dominate and command the respect and obedience of all the most evil and depraved people in the city whilst also remaining a Nice Guy™.
-
I hope that is clearer? And helps you understand my perspective a bit more.
This will be my final post in responding to you as we're not going to change the game for one person, which I'm sure you can understand. Before you said the MC was sexually experienced, yet now you're saying that he's not experienced enough to be a good dom, which is a bit contradictive to be honest.

Secondly, the player is not forced to pursue more than one woman. Yes there may be the odd forced sex scene (e.g - Daniela which had to happen as it was important to the plot but was also before MC had an official girlfriend, and Marcy which you only get on the ruthless route and starts to show the dom tendencies so it suits what you ask about the ruthless route being the dom route), but it's ultimately the player that decides to pursue more than one girl so it's not the MC that doesn't care about any of them, it's the player. The player can make choices which make others hate/like/love the MC but is not forced into multiple relationships, so him being a dom does not apply when it's the player not caring, not the MC.

Like I said, depending on the route, the outcome will vary. Ruthless, you will be dominant. Leader, you will still be kind of dominant in the sense that you make choices, but the woman can make choices too and it will be more romance focused. We see Frank, the MCs dad, with his outdated views that women only exist for the males sexual pleasure and to do the housework and such. That's the way he was raised. But then we see the MC who was raised to care and respect everyone, regardless of status, sex, age, etc. The ruthless route undoes and causes the MC to be more like Frank where he cares very little for people and just stomps on them to get to the top. But the Leader route will see MC be a different type of crime lord. He will still do what he needs to do and get stuff done, he will command respect, but he will be more caring and compassionate. There will be lines he won't cross and will find alternate ways to get stuff done.

It's a different take on crime games. We strive for realism with many elements in the game, but ultimately at the end of the day, it's an adult visual novel, not real life. There are some things that won't be realistic and that will have to be accepted because it's how we wish to tell the story. If you want dom, stick to the ruthless route. It will take time and even when the MC starts to show his dom tendencies, it won't dive in straight away, but as the story continues to progress, you will see them more. Beyond that, the game won't be changed per the suggestions you offered unfortunately.
 

kurupt87

Member
Jul 23, 2017
125
157
This will be my final post in responding to you as we're not going to change the game for one person, which I'm sure you can understand. Before you said the MC was sexually experienced, yet now you're saying that he's not experienced enough to be a good dom, which is a bit contradictive to be honest.
There's a difference between experienced and good.
Experienced simply means two things really;
1. he's done it enough to not be so overwhelmed with lust that he cums as soon as she touches him and
2. he's done it enough that he doesn't get so nervous that the stress causes him to lose his erection.
Those things together simply mean he is physically capable of lasting long enough to please his partner too. But, he's not a sexual expert, able to please with whatever he choose, a whisper, a pinch, a finger, tongue etc etc.
That is what I expect from this MC, what his character implies. His max ceiling, he can give his partner an ok orgasm.
-
On top of that, the scenes actually imply that he's some sort of ero wizard because all the woman cum hard but, hey, this is an ero game, I get it.

Secondly, the player is not forced to pursue more than one woman. Yes there may be the odd forced sex scene (e.g - Daniela which had to happen as it was important to the plot but was also before MC had an official girlfriend, and Marcy which you only get on the ruthless route and starts to show the dom tendencies so it suits what you ask about the ruthless route being the dom route), but it's ultimately the player that decides to pursue more than one girl so it's not the MC that doesn't care about any of them, it's the player. The player can make choices which make others hate/like/love the MC but is not forced into multiple relationships, so him being a dom does not apply when it's the player not caring, not the MC.
But the player is rp'ing as the MC. Ergo, anything the player does the MC does and has to be ok with. You're not writing the MC as a puppet on a string, you're writing him as a self contained character - we just get to make the odd decision for him. But, those choices would still be choices he would make.
The MC has the choice of doing it and there are no apparent repercussions or changes to his character as a result. As I said to Silk_Ari, if your MC is a noble and good guy as you say - after the player chooses to have him cheat or perv over his sister then the MC should react to that. He should split up from his gf out of guilt, and god knows what he'd do to himself about his perving on his mother and sister.

But anyhoo, as I don't expect to hear from you, I hope you'll be able to take something or two from this that will be useful to you. I wish you luck with the game and future endeavours. Ciao o/
 
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KING VR

Member
Nov 28, 2019
252
98
Why is there a group sex tag? Hmmm...maybe there's group sex? NTR? depends on your definition I guess lol ... but I'd say no.
How bad is the Group Sex content. Is it related to Main Chars and has effect on Story.

Not into it. Would avoid it if possible. Is it avoidable.
 

MrFriendly

Officially Dead Inside
Donor
Feb 23, 2020
5,875
14,449
How bad is the Group Sex content. Is it related to Main Chars and has effect on Story.

Not into it. Would avoid it if possible. Is it avoidable.
As of right now it is possible to have a threesome, it is also possible not to have the threesome. I'd suggest following a walkthrough if available.
 

Alfius

Engaged Member
Modder
Sep 30, 2017
2,327
4,880
Loved the game! I have to compare it a bit to TDF and Godfather.

The Godfather is strong in this one...I don't know how I feel about that. Godfather 1 and 2 are probably my all time favourite movies (3 don't exists!) So in terms of strong reference and inspiration you can not go wrong.

Bella vs Luna.... I like Bella, but no contest. I do not think any character male or female will top Luna in the crazy stakes. She's on a league of their own. Bella was still quite good IMO.

I loved that the mom and sis are not all over the MC sexually....kinda nice buildup there. Daniella was very well done for me. Jane was also a nice role (I managed to lose her in my first playthrough, so it shows consequences from actions). (Almost like a Kate to Michael). I found Angela to be extremely sexy.... I like how she is not the "perfect" body type. broader hips, small pot belly. It made her soooo sexy. Very little interaction with Julia, so hard to tell.

Marcy sex scene were awesome! If that were not a dom performance, I don't know what is.

I liked the scens with Donna, but my least favourite female character. Not sure if I trust her.

Speaking of Donna... Silk_Ari
I found a bug. Even through I fucked Donna, before meeting Jane and movie night with Sophie, The update board said.
"You spoke to Donna about your feelings... Clearly she wanted to get physical, but you thought it best to decline. Things are way to fucked up right now."

Maybe just have a look at that.


All in all...I enjoyed the game a lot. Interface were awesome. I like the progress board. Girls are awsome and actions have consequences. What's not to like?
 
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Sep 9, 2020
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The point of that, was that he was originally angry and extremely upset, thus why he punched Tommy (also it goes against MCs character to punch a woman so that wouldn’t make sense), but time can heal wounds, and instead of holding a grudge and dwelling on the past for months/years, he moved on, accepted it happened and lived a better and happier life. Obviously he wasn’t fine with getting cucked, that’s why he acted out but no point in letting it destroy you and your life for years to come.
There's a difference between not letting it bother you and wishing someone well on the specific thing that broke your heart. "A better and happier life" is simply false, and something that people say to cope with trauma. His ex amd his ex friend are clearly sociopaths and don't deserve to be wished well in the first place. MC would show his maturity by ignoring them after the incident has blown over, rather than wishing them well like a living doormat.
 

Silk_Ari

Active Member
Game Developer
Dec 21, 2017
710
1,869
Loved the game! I have to compare it a bit to TDF and Godfather.
...

All in all...I enjoyed the game a lot. Interface were awesome. I like the progress board. Girls are awsome and actions have consequences. What's not to like?
Thanks for the kind words. They're very appreciated and thanks for spotting the bug.

It's really. Really hard not to be completely exasperated with the lack of support though. I mean, we appreciate all our patrons, they're what keeps us going. But, working on this game is almost a full time job since we're basically only 2 people + 1 person that's helping story wise. Sometimes I wonder if people even grasp the amount of work that's put into it. When I read posts about wanting more choices, more complexity, more points systems... do they even realize how much more work that means for us? That we're trying to produce a monthly update so that current patrons don't drop us. Add the COVID situation and man, I;m telling you there are days I just want to put all of it in the recycle bin and flush it for ever.

Sorry for the rant! Of course, not going to flush anything, and you guys can look forward to an update at the end of the month :)

Thanks again for the kind words!
 
3.90 star(s) 61 Votes