VN Ren'Py Abandoned Oath of Loyalty [Ch. 10] [Silk Ari/REV]

[kurupt87]

I just got to the part where he's talking about how he didn't do anything to his cheating ex but gave his friend a black eye, and also how he wished them a happy engagement a few years later. Crazy. No one should be cool with getting cucked like that, and if you're gonna beat up your friend you should beat up your ex girlfriend too since she's the one who betrayed you the most. Who even writes this shit? At least the art and plot is good I suppose.

As far as I remember, literally every single position change and ejaculation was done at the behest of, or assent of, the woman. Every single one. Not once does he say something like "I'm coming, I want you to swallow" or "Turn over and get on your knees, I'm going to fuck you doggy now."
It's always, "where do you want me to come" (or there's dialogue to it at all, just a selection menu) or, "can we do it doggy now?" and the ever reliable best, "oh, I'm sorry I came on you" instead "christ you're hot as fuck, I couldn't control myself; you look amazing covered in my spunk."
Jesus, find your bollocks son. (This is directed at the MC)

 

[rev_01]

As far as I remember, literally every single position change and ejaculation was done at the behest of, or assent of, the woman. Every single one. Not once does he say something like "I'm coming, I want you to swallow" or "Turn over and get on your knees, I'm going to fuck you doggy now."
It's always, "where do you want me to come" (or there's dialogue to it at all, just a selection menu) or, "can we do it doggy now?" and the ever reliable best, "oh, I'm sorry I came on you" instead "christ you're hot as fuck, I couldn't control myself; you look amazing covered in my spunk."
Jesus, find your bollocks son. (This is directed at the MC)

I can literally confirm as a writer for the game it is not every single one, infact I think it’a barely any. The MC rarely asks where to cum theres an option asking the player where they want to cum and they decide. Sure he doesn’t dominate and he isn’t like “i want you to get on your knees and suck my dick”, etc. but he doesn’t ask permission.

 

[Mormont]

I hope for the next update the MC speaks up for Donna rather than just sit there and let her be fired. Paulie is wrong to get rid of her.

 

[Abhai]

I hope for the next update the MC speaks up for Donna rather than just sit there and let her be fired. Paulie is wrong to get rid of her.

This is Paulie's five minutes of power/glory...Soonish he could be down, or even out, and (bella) Donna should be back.

 

[kurupt87]

I can literally confirm as a writer for the game it is not every single one, infact I think it’a barely any. The MC rarely asks where to cum theres an option asking the player where they want to cum and they decide.

If cumming is mentioned, it is done at the request of or with the permission of the woman.
If you leave it to player choice with the option box but then put in 0 zero dialogue regarding the choice (which is what you do by the way, numerous times) you're basically ignoring it.
It should go:
"Ahh, I'm going to cum!"
(Player cum location choice presented)
"I'm going to paint/creampie/swallow etc you!"
woman: "You want to..? Oh my god, mmm..."
Cum pictures
"Jesus, that was hot, you good?"
her: "You're a bastard... I came so hard. Go get me a towel, I can't see."
"*grin & chuckle* Sure babe, might take a photo first."
her: "You best fucking not!"
etc etc
/endscene

Instead of this we get:
"Ahh, I'm going to cum!"
(Player choice presented)
cum pictures
/endscene

The tone of the problem is in the difference between him saying something like:
"I want to x you," rather than, "I'm going to x you."
Want to = bitch, requires her assent before becoming "going to"
Going to = alpha, the thing is happening unless she freaks out
He makes the choice, not her.

Sure he doesn’t dominate and he isn’t like “i want you to get on your knees and suck my dick”, etc. but he doesn’t ask permission.

He does need to dominate though, otherwise his character makes no sense.
He's supposed to be an up and coming crime lord for crying out loud, if he can't even muster up the stones to dominate a woman in the bedroom (where a man is expected to be dominant) then how are we supposed to believe he's going to be able to dominate a(t least one) murderous criminal syndicate?
You don't need to treat her like shit to be dominant, or delve into sadism. He just needs to be the one making the decisions. He's the top, the dom, the one in charge. What he wants is more important than what she wants. He can want her to enjoy herself, to cum too, that is fine and doesn't stop him being dominant but his wants/needs come first.

I'm almost certainly overreacting but I'm just so fed up of wimpy MC's that don't realise that they're wimpy, it's my number one gripe with these games.
At least this game doesn't do my second biggest problem (it happens slightly less), the whole "sexual reward for male MC is eating pussy". Every time that happens I just sigh and think of the facepalm montage meme.

 

[Cokebaths]

I hope for the next update the MC speaks up for Donna rather than just sit there and let her be fired. Paulie is wrong to get rid of her.

I sincerely doubt it. Usually when he does "speak up" he immediately shuts the fuck up when they very rudely demand him to. He doesn't seem to have much of a backbone for someone who's supposed to ruthless or a leader unfortunately.

 

[rev_01]

If cumming is mentioned, it is done at the request of or with the permission of the woman.
If you leave it to player choice with the option box but then put in 0 zero dialogue regarding the choice (which is what you do by the way, numerous times) you're basically ignoring it.
It should go:
"Ahh, I'm going to cum!"
(Player cum location choice presented)
"I'm going to paint/creampie/swallow etc you!"
woman: "You want to..? Oh my god, mmm..."
Cum pictures
"Jesus, that was hot, you good?"
her: "You're a bastard... I came so hard. Go get me a towel, I can't see."
"*grin & chuckle* Sure babe, might take a photo first."
her: "You best fucking not!"
etc etc
/endscene

Instead of this we get:
"Ahh, I'm going to cum!"
(Player choice presented)
cum pictures
/endscene

The tone of the problem is in the difference between him saying something like:
"I want to x you," rather than, "I'm going to x you."
Want to = bitch, requires her assent before becoming "going to"
Going to = alpha, the thing is happening unless she freaks out
He makes the choice, not her.


He does need to dominate though, otherwise his character makes no sense.
He's supposed to be an up and coming crime lord for crying out loud, if he can't even muster up the stones to dominate a woman in the bedroom (where a man is expected to be dominant) then how are we supposed to believe he's going to be able to dominate a(t least one) murderous criminal syndicate?
You don't need to treat her like shit to be dominant, or delve into sadism. He just needs to be the one making the decisions. He's the top, the dom, the one in charge. What he wants is more important than what she wants. He can want her to enjoy herself, to cum too, that is fine and doesn't stop him being dominant but his wants/needs come first.

I'm almost certainly overreacting but I'm just so fed up of wimpy MC's that don't realise that they're wimpy, it's my number one gripe with these games.
At least this game doesn't do my second biggest problem (it happens slightly less), the whole "sexual reward for male MC is eating pussy". Every time that happens I just sigh and think of the facepalm montage meme.

I’m seriously doubting if you’ve actually seen a single sex scene in this game to be honest. Literally every sex scene I’ve written and pretty sure it’s the same for Ari has dialogue after the choice you make relating to the option you made for cumming.

Also, at this current time it would actually go against the MCs character to be dominant like you suggest he should be due to being an upcoming crime lord. He only discovered the family business not too long ago. He's still getting adjusted to it all and a lot of the time wishes he never discovered it at all. We will see MC progress throughout the game and be shaped by the players choices. Will he be a leader or will he be ruthless. They will play an important part in the scenes, including sex scenes as the story develops more and MC becomes more engrossed in the business as it will control how the scenes play out and what dialogue is presented to you. But currently at this time it would make little sense for the MC to be how you suggest due to how he was raised.

You say he doesn't dominate like he's a bitch in the bedroom, but he definitely isn't dominated either. In fact, he actually makes quite a few choices in the bed room and a lot of the time when he says "want", it's him telling the girl she needs to beg. Might just be me, but that sounds like dominating. Sure, the women say they want the MC to do something too, but I hate to break it to you buddy, but that happens in real life too. Men aren't the only ones making the choices, so we're mimicking real life here too. I disagree MCs wants are more important than what the girl wants, they're both equally important. There may be some girls that prefer dom and MC will make more choices and stuff, but in most scenes he's not gonna be the only one making the choices.

And if being wimpy means that he lets the woman make choices in the bedroom too, well fuck guess that means being a good person is wimpy, because that's how it should be. Two people enjoying sex together getting what they want. Like I said, there will be times MC dominates and the scenes will change as the story progresses based on your points, but there will still be times where the woman says she wants something.

 

[Trapezio]

Well,

I just discovered a new italian word, "stunad".

Anyway, why in the world the Boss and the mobs come straight from "The Godfather", while the MC is the rocker from "Become a Rockstar"?

This is so fucking damn ridiculous.

 

[QBaSS]

Well,

I just discovered a new italian word, "stunad".

Anyway, why in the world the Boss and the mobs come straight from "The Godfather", while the MC is the rocker from "Become a Rockstar"?

This is so fucking damn ridiculous.

The stunad thing is mildly annoying and frankly ridicolous
There are plenty of examples of italian-american slang in every fucking mob movie
It's just the dev being lazy
And the bit about the dad in the army fighting against communists?
Never happened unless he was talking about the russian campaign but in that case, if I remember correctly, the troops deployed there were from the italian mountain troops recruited in the Alps that are far away from Sicily

 

[Silk_Ari]

The stunad thing is mildly annoying and frankly ridicolous
There are plenty of examples of italian-american slang in every fucking mob movie
It's just the dev being lazy
And the bit about the dad in the army fighting against communists?
Never happened unless he was talking about the russian campaign but in that case, if I remember correctly, the troops deployed there were from the italian mountain troops recruited in the Alps that are far away from Sicily

Wait, wait, wait.. you mean Luke Skywalker never really blew up the death star? You have got to be shitting me.

 

[QBaSS]

Wait, wait, wait.. you mean Luke Skywalker never really blew up the death star? You have got to be shitting me.

No I mean if you want to give a realistic background do some research if not go the DeLuca way with rollerblades and shit.
Simple as that

 

[Mmushy]

Lol wanting total realism in a game, a porn game at where every female finds the MC irresistible and wants to have sex with him.

 

[Trapezio]

Mostly, the incest "thing" is totally out of place.

 

[rev_01]

Mostly, the incest "thing" is totally out of place.

What do you mean?

also regarding your previous post, BaRS isn’t the first game to use this MC and it won’t be the last, I’ve seen a lot of games use it.

 

[kurupt87]

Also, at this current time it would actually go against the MCs character to be dominant like you suggest he should be due to being an upcoming crime lord. He only discovered the family business not too long ago. He's still getting adjusted to it all and a lot of the time wishes he never discovered it at all. We will see MC progress throughout the game and be shaped by the players choices. Will he be a leader or will he be ruthless. They will play an important part in the scenes, including sex scenes as the story develops more and MC becomes more engrossed in the business as it will control how the scenes play out and what dialogue is presented to you. But currently at this time it would make little sense for the MC to be how you suggest due to how he was raised.

No, not true.
The MC is already sexually experienced, he's not the usual idiot virgin character.
Therefore, if he has any dominant tendencies they will already have shown themselves in his sexuality.
As he doesn't show any in the bedroom, this means he doesn't have any.
This means that he will never be able to rise to the top of criminal organisations like those in this game because he doesn't have the necessary inclination or personality.
UNLESS, he goes through a character destroyingly traumatic change. And that'd break the guy, make him a psycho.

You say he doesn't dominate like he's a bitch in the bedroom, but he definitely isn't dominated either. In fact, he actually makes quite a few choices in the bed room and a lot of the time when he says "want", it's him telling the girl she needs to beg. Might just be me, but that sounds like dominating. Sure, the women say they want the MC to do something too, but I hate to break it to you buddy, but that happens in real life too. Men aren't the only ones making the choices, so we're mimicking real life here too. I disagree MCs wants are more important than what the girl wants, they're both equally important. There may be some girls that prefer dom and MC will make more choices and stuff, but in most scenes he's not gonna be the only one making the choices.

All of that is fine on the leader/love/caring path, where sex is an expression of the emotional bond between the characters.
It is not fine on the ruthless/lust path, where the sex should have little to no emotional component at all and is about control.
On the leader/love path the MC cares about the women, so give-take in the bedroom is expected (though there is always a dominant partner, it is far less explicit).
On the ruthless/lust path the MC should not care about the women, they're just more notch marks on his bedpost.
It's a failing on the games part to differentiate between the two paths because, as far as I can tell, they're identical in their lewd scenes' tone.

And if being wimpy means that he lets the woman make choices in the bedroom too, well fuck guess that means being a good person is wimpy, because that's how it should be. Two people enjoying sex together getting what they want. Like I said, there will be times MC dominates and the scenes will change as the story progresses based on your points, but there will still be times where the woman says she wants something.

No, again you fail to understand.
It is possible for a man to be both dominant and good.
Because, shock horror, most women want their man to be dominant.
A good dom makes sure their sub enjoys him/herself before the dom does.
BUT, our MC will happily fuck everything that walks which (if you're trying to be realistic) precludes him really giving a shit about them to begin with. (If you want him to be honourable/loyal and that be an inherent part of his character, that must be reflected in the choices/repurcussions given to the player, ie if he cheats he'd choose to break up with his girlfriend himself with no input from her - maybe she could talk him into staying around because she doesn't mind but the only personailty so far that would realistically do that is Donna).
So, he'd make sure that they have enough fun that they become a fuck buddy or remain friendly so that they don't cause him problems (opposition daughters, cop lady) but outside of that, 0 shits given.

 

[kurupt87]

Mostly, the incest "thing" is totally out of place.

This, so much this.
This game is going for realism, which means the incest needs to be realism seeking too.
Incest games for the most part work because they have an idiot savant virgin MC existing in a world where everybody is a very slightly repressed monumental pervert and are equally stupid. They have no genuine realism emulation going on.
The incest games that do are extremely rare, I can think of two; Light of My Life (horrifyingly real) and Gates Motel (weird enough and covering enough disparate perversions to make it unreal enough to enjoy).

Incest happens in three ways:
1. Extreme isolation, no alternative sexual options other than family (Gates Motel approach; tyrannical mother isolation + religion isolation + geographical isolation)
2. Family tragedy & emotional transference (dead father->live son, dead mother->live daughter)(Light of My Life approach; as I implied, terrifyingly real depiction in this game, eww)
3. Evil tyrant, bored with regular sex, seduces/rapes family to spice things up, has overwhelming power through some method.

The only one of those that could possibly happen in this game is #3, or I suppose #2.
But, that'd be in about 20 years time.
After either:
his exposure to the criminal underworld and freely available sluts have completely broken him for #3, or;
whoever the mother of his children is dies for #2.
The incest options in the game just seem so dumb when it is otherwise clearly trying to be realistic.

 

[Silk_Ari]

This, so much this.

I don't know where you're going with this as the only sex that happened was with Daniela. And that's because her character fits the mold.

Secondly, the other characters have only expressed "emotions/feelings" due to them being extremely isolated. For example Mary, who's a mob boss wife, never gets out or socializes anymore and is neglected. Sofia, who is also isolated, never allowed to leave the house or hang out with friends. Both of them have only the MC for emotional support of any kind. So seriously, you're way way off man. But hey, that's just like my opinion man. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[kurupt87]

I don't know where you're going with this as the only sex that happened was with Daniela. And that's because her character fits the mold.

Yeah, no problem with Daniela at all. Cousin stuff is a world apart from immediate family stuff, which is why cousin "incest" is legal in most of the world. My "incest reasons" were regarding immediate family; I thought that was a given but, apologies for not making that clear.
People that have issues with cousin incest are normally those who have more of a brother/sister relationship with their own rl cousins. And in their case they'd be right, that kind of relationship makes it far more incestuous.

Secondly, the other characters have only expressed "emotions/feelings" due to them being extremely isolated. For example Mary, who's a mob boss wife, never gets out or socializes anymore and is neglected. Sofia, who is also isolated, never allowed to leave the house or hang out with friends. Both of them have only the MC for emotional support of any kind. So seriously, you're way way off man. But hey, that's just like my opinion man. Thanks for the feedback!

That is fine for those characters, especially for Mary. That strikes me as 100% believable, it's the same reason she's retreated to the bottle. I'm totally with you there, she could be going slowly mad and desperate enough for a connection that she becomes attached to her son. Fine.
I feel Sofia's isolation is unrealistic though, she'd be a spoiled Princess that gets whatever she wants; typically I feel her trope would be baby-Mistress (think; bratty, arrogant, rich valleygirl - her opinion is that she's better than everyone, people are lucky to be near her), possibly then corrupted into switch or broken into slave.
But, if you want to make her an isolated nice girl too then that is fine (I feel as though swapping Sofia and the other cousin's (Julia?) personality would fit that better - she's more introverted so more likely to self-isolate).

BUT, the MC is not isolated. Not at all.
He has no reason that forces him to dump his erotic feelings onto his family members. Nor is he evil & perverse enough to do so of his own accord.
He's out and about in the world; sexually, socially and academically successful. He's a winner, a bit beta but a winner nonetheless.
The only real reason he would have for considering incest would be pity for his mother/sister. And, pity is nowhere near a strong enough motivator for him to overcome the incest taboo. Not by a long shot.
So, the incest doesn't happen - it remains only a fantasy for the mother/sister because the son/brother wouldn't ever accept it.

Which means, you either end up annoying;
the people that are enjoying the realism of the game by making the incest happen anyway, they now think the game is dumb
OR
you annoy the people that want incest regardless by sticking to realism and letting the incest remain unactualised - teasing the absolute shit out of the perverts playing the game.
Both of those are very bad because I think the playerbase here would be a pretty even split.

My solution, if you want to keep incest, realism and the MC's current personality/character.

• Have to lose the mom as a love interest for the MC, no way to make her work - the only realistic path is splitting her up from the father and getting her a new boyfriend/life (which is unrealistic as fuck obviously because the father is the mob-boss, have to wait for him to be assassinated/die etc). (There is potentially room for something like the MC persuading his father that his mother needs someone, then the father bringing in a guy that he has complete control over, guy pretends to be mother's gay bff to the world but is secretly the mother's gigolo lover; father is in the know & gets to keep image of happy family (important! weakness is literally death in his life - but, that's a bit weird and, frankly, unfulfilling to the player)
• Merge sister and younger cousin (Julia?) into one character, she's a cousin. (Once the MC has lots of experience with sluts like Donna and you could justifiably argue that he might want to spice things up, he could groom/seduce Julia(?) - this would be a few years away from where we are now though, maybe make Julia(?) a kid at the start and stretch the story over many years, so that the seduction starts when she's 18 (so you can still hit the teen perversion))
• Can keep Daniela the same. (Can keep her as the lead pervert during MC's early story, she can even be the route to corrupting/perverting the currently noble MC)
• The predictable blackmail and subjugation of the Aunt can stay I guess, to have a MILF type one too. Though, MC is going to need to go through some dark shit to get there. Also, definitely requires a close relationship between MC and Paulie, for Paulie to be dead and for her to have betrayed Paulie, MC and the family - overwhelming need for revenge on her would be key.

 

[Abhai]

I don't know where you're going with this as the only sex that happened was with Daniela. And that's because her character fits the mold.

Secondly, the other characters have only expressed "emotions/feelings" due to them being extremely isolated. For example Mary, who's a mob boss wife, never gets out or socializes anymore and is neglected. Sofia, who is also isolated, never allowed to leave the house or hang out with friends. Both of them have only the MC for emotional support of any kind. So seriously, you're way way off man. But hey, that's just like my opinion man. Thanks for the feedback!

If I might advice you and rev_01, there is a handy little button called "ignore" - it could be useful sometimes
I dont think you will get much by discussing your game with that particular member.

 

[Silk_Ari]

If I might advice you and rev_01, there is a handy little button called "ignore" - it could be useful sometimes
I dont think you will get much by discussing your game with that particular member.

I really dont mind if people have their opinions, it's fine really, it's THEIR opinions. I welcome peoples feedback ... when it's at least constructive. I mean people will have their own biased opinions of EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING. It's not believable to him, well okay then move on to another game I guess? What can I tell you. We'll agree to disagree. I appreciate his suggestions but it's not like I'm going to all of sudden halt the game and rewrite it to fit what he believes the game should be. I mean if he wants that, then he just has to go make his own god damn game so I can criticize it lmao (Hey it's fair game). So what ever. He argued his points, I argued mine. Not much more to say about it.

edit: Frankly I'm surprised people have the energy to argue and willingness to write such long posts about stuff they dislike It's fascinating to me.