- Thread starter Young Griff
- Start date
I played the last version and i cant find the fighting scene with rapto before meeting evelyn ? Could somebody tell me how to unlock it ?
- Jun 19, 2018
- 57
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Young Griff Everything okay dev? Patreon and Itch looks like it's been down for a few days.
Agreed. Please don't include the option to stop Sheva, that just sounds unrealistic.
oh come on, did you give in to the anti-ntr whiners? if you give them an inch they'll take the arm dude
there are a thousand games with no ntr in it but they always harass the ones that have it, to remove it
It would seem like the frustration over everything, sadly, caused him to take down his Patreon & Itch, nor has he been on Twitter lately. 
meh, he wrote a "badass" developer notes section about not taking any shit, and in the end he couldn't hold upIt would seem like the frustration over everything, sadly, caused him to take down his Patreon & Itch, nor has he been on Twitter lately.
then he gave in and removed ntr too
I think it was more than just the anti-NTR crowd crap that was giving him trouble, he was getting review bombed on Itch by people who never even bought his title and it dropped his rating down and Itch wasn't very helpful at all... so, when his sales started to take a hit, I think that was the final straw for him.
In my own extremely unlettered opinion, it's all framing. If those debates are humored or if any indication is given that the creative direction is open to influence, it will be so.
Or, you can frame your game as your own creative vision, and that's how you'll proceed on a set course. Sales will rise and fall with the ebb and flow of new releases.
Not necessarily true.
True it can come from places like here, where the creator can have direct interaction with some of their players and fans... but there are many of whom play but never pay... want an example, my first game has had over 3 million downloads from here alone. Despite that fact, I still would've made more money working at McDonalds flipping hamburgers than what I made from the sale of my game...
...though, admittedly, I only sold on Patreon and advertised here, which won't be the case with my next game.
Our best chance of making money is by selling it in multiple locations, to sell it in areas where people who may never have heard of us will take the chance and buy our game... and those people tend to pay attention to reviews before they buy and if you have some assholes who decide to review bomb your product and you can't do anything about it, then you aren't going to make sales.
These games take time to make, they take a lot of work, a lot of dedication, a lot of money and the hope is that effort is rewarded and pays off... for some, they count on at least breaking even for their effort, when they get treated unfairly by assholes who can't just play some other game that is more to their liking and fucking ruin the creator's efforts by going and ruining the chance that they might break even or even make money for their effort in entertaining all of you, then why bother...
...not when you can save yourself a shitload of time, hassle, money and effort while not having to deal with assholes pissing and moaning because they don't like something that your creating and trying to fuck you over... sometimes the bullshit just isn't worth it to some... so, yeah... they pack their shit up and do something else.
Who can blame them?
What I'm trying to say is no matter what industry you're in, and no matter what market your product exists in, you're going to have some bad press. That's a universal constant.
If a product is so susceptible to be tanked by negative reviews anonymously posted at a single location, perhaps that speaks to a problem with the overall business plan. (Or the overall business ecosystem, but that invites a nastier conversation particularly given the platform where we're talking about this)
- Oct 17, 2022
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I think he really couldn't deal with pressure wether it was on Itchio or not.
It is the whole story around NTR-stuff - first he created game with optional (or he said), then he made it unavoidable and updated tags, then after some harassment he said he will make it avoidable even though it doesn't suit the story, and after a while eventually he told everybody to fuck off and that he will make the game he wanted to make. My opinion - he had to do that right from the start - you do you and that's it. Who doesn't like will avoid.
But all this wiggling back and forth never ends well.
Oh bad press is inevitable, not everyone is going to like your product and there is nothing you can do about it. And there are some people out there that doesn't know how to handle getting critiqued, or know how to separate valuable critique from just straight up bullshit.
And yeah, going to be honest, there is a bit of a problem with the business ecosystem as well... but that is a whole different can of worms.
I think in Griff's case, he... like a lot of other people, it seems... wasn't really sure what is considered 'NTR' and what isn't when he first started out.
I think that played a pretty good role in it.
Add to the fact that you seem to also have a lot of people who scream NTR whenever there is another dick in a scene with any female character in the game (whether she is an LI or not) because they are insecure over the fact that people in this world can fuck too and they aren't the only male with a dick on the planet.
Just because a character has boobs, pussy, ass and looks fuckable and is getting dick from someone OTHER THAN the MC of the game does NOT make the game an NTR one.
Personally, Griff should've just told people what I tell people: "This is MY game, MY story and I HAVE to tell the story MY WAY... if you can't handle it, then this isn't a game you should play."
Even after that, you are still going to get some individuals who will whine and complain, promising that they "will never support the game" and using that line as some sort of cudgel to try and convince or threaten the creator into bending to their desires. (my answer: "Fuck you, your lousy $1 a month... should you really seek or even intended to part with it, isn't worth it when compared to the $5, $10 OR more that I get from others.")
Personally, IMHO, the situation with Sheva... though she does become a potential LI if players want, bobbing the knob of some slave running prick to try and make her life easier after a 5 minute conversation with the MC is NOT NTR. She hasn't committed or pledged her love to the MC, hell, the MC isn't even really a blip on her radar... the only thing that is, is trying to make her life as easy as possible and looking out for herself.
But, hey... try telling that to people who are threatened with the fact that the game contains other characters with a dick in it.
One last point I'd add is this:
Part of the problem, I think, is the tagging system... not just here, but at other places.
A lot of creators play the "tagging" game... trying to create a game and story around the popular tags in the hopes of "striking gold/oil" out of the vast number of other games out there.
AND THEN, you also have a system where you CAN'T ADD a tag to the game UNTIL IT IS IN THE GAME... which then catches some people off guard, when it suddenly appears in the game, and then freak out or are, sometimes, understandably disappointed when it does... because they've already invested time (and sometimes money) with characters, the story and a format that they were comfortable with.
This... and the fact that you have some creators willing to capitulate to vocal people to make such things "avoidable" only helps to foster a belief to some visitors/players that if they are vocal enough or start a campaign of creator harassments that the creator will kowtow to them and fuck the game and story that they originally had planned to try and silence it... thereby reducing the value of what the product was or could be and just causing the creator to lose interest because they are no longer telling the story that they originally wanted to tell.
Being a creator in this kind of environment is EXTREMELY difficult.
It requires the creator to be thick skinned to all manners of critique and harassment, while also being willing to bend and navigate through the creative process of meeting the goals and expectations of your supporters. It also requires a creator to invest a lot of time, dedication and work for pennies in the hopes of having a financially successful product/game down the road, because too many customers have been fucked in the past by "pump & dump" creators, or by some... like Griff here... who start telling a really good story, only to get discouraged or frustrated to the point that the product/game never gets finished and frustrates the living fuck out of the people that were heavily invested in the story, either emotionally or financially themselves.
There really isn't a cure for this, except to complete the entire project, cross your fingers, release it and hope people likes it... which many of us are simply unable to do, because we need money to survive and these things take a long time to create (and often times, we can't do it alone).
It sucks that Griff likely got frustrated and seemed to have quit. I was a supporter of his, not just a "hey... this is a really great story/game" but was also a financial supporter of his game... plus, it was both of our intention to do a crossover between both of our games and was in the process of doing that... so, yeah... this situation really sucked for everyone involved.
Personally, I hope that with a little time, he'll calm down, return and go back to creating the interesting game that they were creating... but, I am not holding out hope that he does.
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- Oct 7, 2020
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So I'm a nsfw game developer as well, and I've been talking with YoungGriff on and off for a couple of years now. Before he released his game and after, we chatted about developing games, gave each other feedback on our latest builds, etc.
He hasn't spoken to me in a over a month and he's not responding on discord/twitter/etc. To be honest, I feel bummed out that he seems to have just disappeared because I considered him a friend.
I guess it must have been a lot of stress.
Many players don't appreciate that for some indies, the creator is making art. That really means investing a lot of yourself in the product, not just time and effort, but your artistic soul. At best, consumers view our work as porn, and at worst, they feel entitled to the creator's work for free while whining and harassing the dev.
Sometimes people just need to take a break, so I hope that he comes back. However, I wouldn't be surprised if he focused his attention more on sfw stuff where at least he doesn't have to face the stigmas we face for making porn games.
He hasn't spoken to me in a over a month and he's not responding on discord/twitter/etc. To be honest, I feel bummed out that he seems to have just disappeared because I considered him a friend.
I guess it must have been a lot of stress.
Many players don't appreciate that for some indies, the creator is making art. That really means investing a lot of yourself in the product, not just time and effort, but your artistic soul. At best, consumers view our work as porn, and at worst, they feel entitled to the creator's work for free while whining and harassing the dev.
Sometimes people just need to take a break, so I hope that he comes back. However, I wouldn't be surprised if he focused his attention more on sfw stuff where at least he doesn't have to face the stigmas we face for making porn games.
Couldn't agree more with the fact that we pump a lot of ourselves into the creations we make... most don't see it or care to see it beyond their own needs, unfortunately.
Sadly, I've not heard back from him to any of my messages on Twitter/Twix or whatever the hell it is called, on Patreon or Discord either. I am hoping he is just taking a break and getting away from the toxic crap he was dealing with. Hopefully, he didn't let it get too deep inside of him that he'd do something... well... just hope it didn't get any more than just turning things off and walking away.
Wish people could just be mature enough to say: "This isn't my kind of game..." and just leave it at that, let others who DO enjoy it, enjoy it without a bunch of stupid drama... but no, some have to be whiny children and feel the need to harass others.
Assholes... what goes around comes around and hope they get it right where they deserve it, because Griff didn't.
Big oof, one of the games I've been looking forward to the most in recent times. Assuming that him vanishing isn't due to irl issues, I do hope that he finds the willpower and selective blindness necessary to keep being a dev, even if he has to revamp this to wipe the slate clean, or, hell, even outright scrap it. I think not only this game, but he as well are just that promising.
I will be honest. I lean more on the "Not MC dick = NTR" side of the tracks in this debate. If a woman was never available or intended to be available to the MC then it's fine, but forced/unavoaidable scenes (even if skippable) are a pass to me. However, the review bombing and harassment is unacceptable and petty, especially over a game that was never financially backed by almost all of the crowd.
I tried this game out, liked the story and mechanics, didn't like the bit I considered NTR but played the build to that point. It was a finely crafted game and I feel bad for fans who can stomach things that I just am not a fan of because the game was great.
One thing I think a lot of the "No (MC) NTR EVER (Netorase is fine to most I think....)" mobs forget. When you drive out a talented dev and make them quit. Who's to say their next game may have not been even better and free of NTR?
I tried this game out, liked the story and mechanics, didn't like the bit I considered NTR but played the build to that point. It was a finely crafted game and I feel bad for fans who can stomach things that I just am not a fan of because the game was great.
One thing I think a lot of the "No (MC) NTR EVER (Netorase is fine to most I think....)" mobs forget. When you drive out a talented dev and make them quit. Who's to say their next game may have not been even better and free of NTR?
You are an exceptionally rare sort of person and have my greatest respect, you have my thanks for being mature in your thinking!