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- Dec 4, 2017
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Even if Ian is bicurious, it doesn't mean that he would be willing to act on this curiosity. And no, he didn't have any past experience with a guy. Jerking off to Jeremy's pictures makes him feel guilty and weird about himself and he doesn't want it to become a habit. If he was into guys previously, that wouldn't be that weird for him. Or if it's just the friendship aspect that weirds him out, then he'd at least mention his attraction to Axel in his thoughts, but he never does.
If Ian's anything like me, he'd be comfortable being a voyeur and admiring Jeremy's (or Axel's) dick, admitting that they're hot, but when it comes to actually imagining himself with a guy, that image might actually make him very uncomfortable because that's just something he never desired (never had a crush on a dude). I can imagine him be willing to try pegging with a girl though.
And if you wanted to build a bi-Ian story, it'd need to be VERY slow-paced, starting with UNEXPECTED option to fantasize about Jeremy or Axel (without the girls for the first time) and if you select those options, that makes him actually question his sexuality and be willing to dig deeper, or if you ignore them, he buries those thoughts deep inside. And that might lead to a dream similar to Lena's where he accepts or rejects those urges. That said, until his first MFM threesome that might reawaken those repressed thoughts again. But most likely Eva would have to introduce another male character for Ian, who'd either be gay or bisexual as well, because I just can't see Jeremy or Axel being into that (unless Axel is in a closet as well). Perry seems more plausible, but not sure if he's an attractive option.
Jeremy being a homophobe does though. He has this "dudebro" mentality and casually mentions how grappling is "too gay", etc. There's no way Jeremy would want to do anything with a dude, he'd rather cut his dick off.
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- Dec 4, 2017
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There is no "side" or "main" content. It's all your choice. Your active storyline is the MAIN content for YOU only. Check the last update for example. It was mostly Holly-focused, while Cindy took a backseat. Is it disappointing for Cindy fans? Sure. But next time Holly (or someone else) might take a backseat while those who pursue Cindy enjoy themselves.
Ian and Lena can have various types of relationships. You could argue the same things about their VANILLA loving relationship. Why is it in the game if the player won't see 80% of the rest of the game (Robert, Mike, Axel, Cindy, Alison, Cherry, Holly, etc)? Because it fits into the concept of MULTIPLE CHOICES. Just like the player could decide whether Ian loves Lena or Lena loves Ian, or one/both of them treat it as a casual hook-up... I'm sure the same can be achieved with potential voyeur/cuck content as well where the players decide how each of the characters feel about this kink. OR, their reaction might be decided based on a combination of your past choices.
For example: If you previously asked Jeremy to send pictures of Alison or/and Louise, thus triggering his voyeuristic kink, it might give you an opportunity to ask Lena about it. And Lena's response would depend on your playstyle as well. Is she faithful to Ian? Or has she slept with any of the guys/girls? Does she have an exhibitionism kink? Did she have sex with Jeremy? Any combination of those factors might trigger her positive response without giving the player an opportunity to decline (because she would want to continue cheating, and cucking Ian would give her the opportunity to do that openly). Or, if Lena was exclusively interested in Ian, but he has been dominant with her and she has a sex-slave fetish, then she would probably obey his kink as well and would fuck anyone "her master" commands her to fuck. Otherwise, if she has a very low Lust value, she would auto-decline. In other instances, she might "consider" it, and then you can decide as Lena if you want to pursue that and try sleeping with other guys (or girls), or you could tell Ian that it's not really something you're interested in, but that might still open some role-playing and teasing opportunities. Lena isn't prude enough to break up with Ian over some fantasy.
But knowing Eva, the cuck content would probably be triggered in one of the Ivy-related events. If they have another sexy game, with Ian participating, Ivy might want to test their relationship and tell Lena to do something sexy with another guy while Ian would have to watch (or the opposite scenario with Lena watching Ian with another girl). And that might lead them to reflect on that experience and their feelings that would develop or lock that kink.
However, whether or not to do all that content with lots of additional branches, it's up to Eva to decide. If it proves to be too much for her, she probably wouldn't do it, though it would be a massive wasted opportunity. No need to tell others to stop talking about a particular kink that might fit into the narrative, because it's kinda rude. Just because you think ORS is "too developed" for that, it doesn't mean that Eva necessarily thinks the same way.
Why do you think that a particular kink needs to be equally applied to ALL and ANY characters? Clearly, some character types are "locked into" scenarios that only their path unlocks. Obviously, there won't be any "cucking Axel" route or "cheating on Mike". Mike has a cheating fetish where Lena is the other girl in the relationship and his poor girlfriend is in the dark, while with Ian it doesn't work like that at all, she at best tolerates the other girls in his life, and some other girls, like Holly, end up breaking their relationship. Eva cuts corners by making some paths character or other path-exclusive. In GGGB, Ash could have a threesome with Eva and Dave only if she broke up with Eric and Eva is not a slut anymore. Dave content was the same, you needed to be single to date him. You couldn't cuck "Alpha-Eric", only have an open relationship with him. As you can see, there is some wiggle-room for Eva to include potential kinks into the game, she's been doing it for quite a while.
You have a wrong interpretation of what "cucking" means. You can't be a cuckold if you're not in a relationship with a girl. Just because a girl you have a crush on started fucking or dating someone else, and you feel some jealousy, it means just that, that you haven't moved on. Gillian broke Ian's heart by cheating on him, but it's clear that he still has some unresolved feelings for her because thinking about her makes him sad that he lost her, not angry that she betrayed him. Does it make Ian a cuck because Gillian is enjoying some other dick in her private life now? No, it doesn't. And cucking is always voluntary. If he starts dating Lena for real and she cheats on him, it would only make her a cheater. Ian would need to know about it, and consent to it for him to be a cuck. Otherwise, he's just a victim of the cheating. Perhaps a fool. But not a cuck.
I'm still not sure about one Thing. If I remember correctly there are two Scenes in the Game where Ian and Lena can fall in Love with each other (Telling Jeremy you falling for Lena as Ian and after one Sex Scene to snuggle with Ian as Lena right?) Does this mean you need both Scenes for them to fall in Love or does it mean if you just do one Scene then just Ian falls in Love with Lena or the other way around?
I'm just wondering if you can make one of them fall in love but not the other one or if you just can make them both fall in love with each other? I never play them falling in Love but I'm interested how this works.
- Mar 8, 2018
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You're probably right. I haven't tried it either, but I imagine there isn't a huge amount of payoff yet. Why don't you try it and let us know?
- Nov 25, 2019
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Just cheating behind Ian's back is very nice or nicer than full on cuckolding to me... Call it whatever you want... Netorare is hot shit. Especially if Ian doesn't want it to happen or he doesn't want to admit he likes seeing or knowing Mike is using Lena's holes...
- Dec 4, 2017
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Yes, you can make it so that only one of them loves the other, while the other one only treats it as a casual relationship. In that case, the love would be unrequited, and it would probably be similar to Ian/Cherry or Lena/Robert relationships, where one wants to become more serious while another wants freedom. If it leads into a conflict, I imagine they could decide whether to stop their ongoing relationship due to the conflict of interests, or still continue dating, but on agreed terms (open or exclusive relationship).
- Jun 3, 2018
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Not really. I'd have to look at the exact phrasing of his thoughts in that scene (I never played his voyeur content), but feeling weird and/or guilty about jerking to your friend's hetero sex pics doesn't have to say anything against Ian's potential interest in guys whatsoever. It's WHY he feels weird/guilt/etc that's important.
Firstly, the fact he feels weird or guilt is chiefly due to it being a new experience - voyeurism with a friend's picture; something he probably hadn't had the chance to get used to or feel comfortable with for multiple reasons - it's personal, it's perverted, it goes against his nature (at that time). Which leads to the fact that...
Second, Ian is quite self-aware, introspective and has a certain level of discipline, so he has a high awareness of most of his actions and what that could mean - time and time again we see evidence of that regardless of the players choices, because that's the backbone of his personality (at the start, at least). The fact that he doesn't want to make a habit of it says he recognizes voyeurism is 'wrong' and doesn't want to become desensitized to it. Of course, the more he does it the less misgivings he'll have.
Just cos Jeremy is a dude, doesn't mean that Ian has to salivate over his dick, or when he doesn't, that it means he can't be bi. Being bi (or any sexuality) doesn't mean you're automatically attracted to every guy or girl, or their bodies/genitals, and even straight guys will check out other guys dicks - if only to compare - and that doesn't say anything against their heterosexuality. People will like what they like, and people will have their own morals too - conscious and subconscious. I can safely say that, being bi, I could look at the naked bodies of most of my friends and feel no sexual urges toward them whatsoever - not all of them, but almost all of them - because most of them are akin to family, and that's a moral line my subconscious would never even consider crossing.
When it comes to Axel, besides the obvious fact that Eva doesn't plan to add gay content in the game, Ian not verbalizing or internalizing his attraction to Axel also says nothing about his potential bisexuality. Again, being bisexual doesn't mean you're automatically attracted to someone. You can find that they're a good looking guy at the start (which Ian acknowledges of Axel), and quite easily begin to feel more if you find yourself in certain situations with them, or if you connect with them. Like a moment where it hits you like a ton of bricks -'fuck, he's actually pretty hot'. This comes back to what I said about sex being more then just purely physical, at least some of the time, and more for some then others.
Of course, if Ian specifically said he felt weird/wrong jerking to Jeremy's dick, that's another matter entirely, and I stand corrected.
EDIT: though if he was specifically jerking to Jeremy's dick he could still feel weird or wrong all he wanted - you'd have to ask why he wasn't looking at Louise. lolUnless I'm wrong, Ian is new to voyeurism - at least where his friends are concerned. I already mentioned all this above so I won't go into it beyond that but to say: if he is new to voyeurism, or this more personal aspect of it, then there would be every reason for him not to feel quite comfortable with it.
When it comes to imagining being with a guy, it's ineffective to put your own feeling about being with a guy on Ian if you're straight. If Ian is hypothetically bisexual, he probably wouldn't feel deeply uncomfortable over the thought of bisexual acts, because at some point he probably would have considered them (even if he never acted on them). Even if it was the first time he'd ever considered it and it did make him uncomfortable because the thought was foreign and new (or against some belief he had), it would still come with a hint of arousal, because that's sort of the point - if he's bisexual, he's not going to feel only disgust over the idea of being with someone of the same sex.
Jeremy I can understand not being an option - unless he's a closet case or secretly curious; you never know, honestly - just as he might be against it, some of the biggest advocates against something are the deepest in denial.
However, I'm not sure why Axel is out of contention? I mean, so far we've not heard him talk about sex, nor established his personality, to the point where it would rule out bisexuality. Sure, he could be in the closet, but he could equally be confident enough in who he is not to make a big deal of, or get defensive over, his bisexuality. Being very attractive and an 'artist' would also give him a pass in the eyes of his social circle, without any real judgement.
Speaking from my own experience, bisexuals kind of have it simultaneously easier and (arguably, in some ways) harder then other sexualities. Easier because we largely slip under the radar of discerning society because we're 'at least "half normal"' and so 'less threatening' to societies still-ingrained sensibilities; and harder because, as a result of society not really paying attention, bisexuality is misunderstood and as a result either dismissed or blanket assumptions are made about being loose/promiscuous/wanting to fuck anything that moves. IDK if you read my post quite a way back about bisexuality, but in it I mentioned how varied bisexuality can be, and how it's not just a case of, 'bisexuals like both men and women'.
Anyway, feel free to correct me on anything to do with the voyeurism content in the game that would invalidate what I said, as it's not something I have played, or ever plan to.
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Thanks for the Clarification! So this means Ian telling Jeremy he falls for Lena locks him falling in love and when you as Lena chose snuggling after Sex with Ian it locks her falling in Love right?
- Nov 5, 2018
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This is what I think could have been an option to explore Ian's bisexuality. When he's wanking to Jeremy's pics, we could have an option to either focus on the girl, or focus on the cock, as Ian cums. That would flag him as bi-curious, similar to how Lena's BBC kink is flagged when peeking on Jeremy and Louise, and having the option to focus on Louise (lesbian feelings) or Jeremy's dick (BBC thoughts).
Those that don't want bi Ian obviously wouldn't focus on the dick and never have that content come up again.
- Dec 4, 2017
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Someone mentioned that Ian might not be openly bisexual but merely bicurious which I personally find more believable. That's why I tried to imagine myself in his shoes because I'm aware of my bi-curiosity. However, while I might sometimes focus a bit of extra attention on a guy while watching porn, I never had an urge to fuck or date a dude, and the idea itself makes me quite uncomfortable personally. I don't say that it's impossible to end up in a scenario where Ian (if he's bicurious) finds himself not only attracted to a guy but wanting to act on it, just that the decision wouldn't be easy. It would most likely make him anxious due to the novelty of these emotions and he'd have to gradually open himself up to the idea, or deny those feelings and bury them just to stay in his comfort zone. Both options are possible. That's why I said, if Ian's bi-curiosity is similar to mine, he'd find himself more comfortable limited to being a voyeur, or satisfy his curiosity with some MFM action where he might feel safer to explore his bisexuality than on his own with a guy, like if there's a double penetration happening and he might "accidentally" "cross the swords" with a dude which is still considered pretty straight by the porn standards, but it might make him more aroused, and having a girl in the mix wouldn't make him ashamed for having an erection caused by the mild sexual contact with another guy.
Correct.
- Jun 11, 2017
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To me it seems all pretty shoe horned to make Ian, Axel, or Jeremy gay when there's really not evidence. If Eva had intended that she would've had much clearer hints about it far earlier like what's been done with Lena. Jeremy and Ian (depending on choices) are simply really good friends. There's a such thing as two guys having a very strong bond and camaraderie. It doesn't automatically mean gay. For example, and I'm sure there's many others here with the same experience, I've had a male friend since I was a child and we have no qualms whatsoever about stripping down and changing clothes in front of each other. We might even throw out a compliment about how we look good or something. That doesn't come from us being gay or secretly wanting to fuck each other, it comes from a long lasting friendship and respect for one another. If someone can refresh my memory, I don't think Ian ever looked at the pics sent to him by Jeremy and thought "I want to fuck him or have him fuck me." To me it seemed the main focus was a good friend of his sending hot pics of the chicks he's banging, not on Ian being gay and longing for homosexual relations with Jeremy. With this said, depending on what Eva's patrons think and what she herself thinks, after the game is completed or in a later chapter she might add a dlc of sorts in which a gay/bi male character or transgender is added as an option for Ian but I believe Eva has said she doesn't really feel comfortable about writing that for male characters.
- Dec 15, 2020
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I don't think evidence is needed to portray beleivable non-heterosexuality, although there is certainly an argument to be made that if bisexuality were to be added to Ian it'd need some retrospective implementation and not just thrown in from any coming chapter onwards only.
I'm pretty sure you can play the game without Lena's bisexuality being hinted at ever too, yet if someone was to play like that first and then discover Lena's lesbian options on a following playthrough, I doubt they would perceive it as "shoe horned"
I'm pretty sure you can play the game without Lena's bisexuality being hinted at ever too, yet if someone was to play like that first and then discover Lena's lesbian options on a following playthrough, I doubt they would perceive it as "shoe horned"
- Jun 11, 2017
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But it is hinted at as you have the choice, multiple times, to masturbate thinking about women or to focus on them. When Ian gets Jeremy's pics, there's no option for Ian to hyper focus on his dick and fantasize about it. Or for him to fantasize about any other male. So, in the way Eva has written his character, there's no concrete reason to say Ian is gay or bi
- Jun 3, 2018
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It may have been me that mention bi-curiosity that you're referring to, I'm not sure. I did mention it in relation to bisexual content in the game, but I believe it was a while back. In any case, one thing I was adamant about when originally putting the case out there for a bisexual Ian was the fact that it had to be believable, not shoehorned in. As much as I'd love the option for Ian to get with a guy, or guys, if it's not well-planned and executed it's better not to be written at all. Not that I have the fear when it comes to Eva's writing, but I wanted to put that out there. I'm not blindly advocating it.
Naturally bi-curiosity is going to seem more believable to you for Ian, because it's what you're familiar with - we identify aspects of ourselves in characters we connect with. But it doesn't mean that's the way he actually is. Context is important; the more we emotionally connect with a character the more we tend to press upon them ideals we value, and dislike it when they take a direction we don't value or 'see' for them - one inconvenient detail can shatter our image of a character. The fact that this is a game where we have choice on how our Ian acts on things is what's important - player agency is king.
For that reason, if Ian's bisexuality was based upon player's choice, or how they'd developed Ian up until then, then yeah - you could have Ian keep his bi-curiosity internalized, OR seek to sate his curiosity. Example, Ian with a high lust score could have less reservations about acting on his bisexuality, whereas anything less would mean he take a more tentative approach - that seems rather natural to me. If you add in one or two extra criteria just to subtly/subconsciously make sure that guy on guy sexy times is what the player actually wants before you go there, then all the better.
Though Princess Groundhog's idea was good, for the choice to actually be bisexual or bi-curious, or lock that content out and never mention it again, I'd choose an event on the main storyline, not the voyeur route. Reason being that some people (like me!) might not like to take part in the voyeur content. Throw a porn picture or a movie, or something Perry wants to show Ian, in some event, and let the player choose what Ian's gaze focuses on. Simple.
I do think you've made some really good suggestions (both in this post and your last one) in how bisexuality could be implemented, particularly if bisexuality is something that Ian may have only recently come upon. A person can be so sure about their sexuality until they meet someone that breaks that mold, and they discover that their taste may be a little broader then they thought, even if it's still quite niche (eg. a guy liking girls in general, but discovers theirs a particular type of guy he's attracted to, but no others). There's a lot of psychology that comes into discerning who and what we're attracted to based off of what we've experienced in life so far, and it's not always cut and dry, but that's a whole other rabbit hole to travel down.
If Ian was 'niche bisexual', I would be perfectly happy if his niche was Axel-shaped (obviously. lol). If he was bi-curious, or bisexual with no experience, and he got comfortable enough with Axel on account of them bonding over and supporting each other's art, or such, then it could be made to feel pretty natural for it to lead to more. Comfort is a major, if not the most important factor, in taking this step for bisexual Ian. It could start out as jerking each other off to straight porn, maybe a video of Lena.. lol.. they could bond over their experience with Lena. The only way Ian would dive into bisexual acts more broadly is if he had no real reservations about what he liked, which is a point he could get to, but it needs to be established first.
Personally I would like for there to be an opportunity, if Ian ever became bisexual, to choose whether or not we want to see Ian in MFM content or only MM content - I wouldn't want to be forced to share whatever guy Ian gets with with some girl simply for the sake of a bisexual threesome. I have nothing against MFM where it potentially makes sense -- like Ian/Lena/Axel -- but I wouldn't want MFM with a third character I might not care about simply for the sake of having a bisexual threesome, AND I wouldn't want it at the expense of MM. I'm more interested in the dynamic between two men in a bisexual relationship, and all the good and bad that comes with a well-written, well developed story route; in the same way that some players restrict bisexual Lena to just FF interactions - it doesn't make her lesbian, but it's just what they prefer to see.
- Jun 3, 2018
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There is a concrete way of saying Ian isn't gay - the fact that he can and does fuck women. If he was gay there would be, at the very least, some serious reluctance there (even if he was trying to convince himself he wasn't gay by fucking women). The case is still open for bisexuality - I mean, not technically since we know Eva's stance, but.. creatively?
And the case for Ian not having a choice to focus on Jeremy's dick could be down to the simple fact that it's Jeremy, and he doesn't want to look at his friend's dick. I don't think it's that abnormal not to want to look at your friend's genitals, even if they are of the gender you feel sexually attracted to. But seriously, we know the reason why the option isn't in there, it just doesn't mean it can't be added. There hasn't been any definitive proof that Ian wouldn't consider any dicks, yet.
- Nov 5, 2018
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I mean… Jeremy’s cock takes up like 75% of the screen. It’s sort of hard to not focus on it, isn’t it?
- Aug 28, 2017
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i see a lot of essays here just for the question of if cuck content can be integrated into ORS or not. and even though i very much liked BloodyMares essay, i think this can be narrowed down very easily:
in the last update if you started a relationship between Ian and Lena, the game continued in two ways. either your Ian fooled around with Holly, or your Ian didn't. whatever you did it had a huge impact on the relationship between Ian and Lena, yet it actually just changed a couple of dialogues and altered how some scenes proceeded. the huge impact happens with you as you read and get a different feel for the situation. it is the same with any new content that gonna get included into the game, in the future. it doesn't have to be cuck stuff, it can be anything else also. it's gonna be implemented in the same kind of fashion, like everything else already is. cuck stuff or any other kink won't need an integral structural change to work for the game.
actually herrzimm1, ORS is the perfect game to include cuck related stuff into later iterations of the game, as it has branching choices and it is recursive in it's story (the branching doesn't hurt the flow of the main story-line). especially since the story revolves around two different people, who both at the start got out of an relationship based on trust issues.
i'm not saying i want cuck in ORS, i'm just saying it's easily possible.
in the last update if you started a relationship between Ian and Lena, the game continued in two ways. either your Ian fooled around with Holly, or your Ian didn't. whatever you did it had a huge impact on the relationship between Ian and Lena, yet it actually just changed a couple of dialogues and altered how some scenes proceeded. the huge impact happens with you as you read and get a different feel for the situation. it is the same with any new content that gonna get included into the game, in the future. it doesn't have to be cuck stuff, it can be anything else also. it's gonna be implemented in the same kind of fashion, like everything else already is. cuck stuff or any other kink won't need an integral structural change to work for the game.
actually herrzimm1, ORS is the perfect game to include cuck related stuff into later iterations of the game, as it has branching choices and it is recursive in it's story (the branching doesn't hurt the flow of the main story-line). especially since the story revolves around two different people, who both at the start got out of an relationship based on trust issues.
i'm not saying i want cuck in ORS, i'm just saying it's easily possible.