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Varxen

Member
Jun 17, 2017
165
321
This guy definitely studies Literature, or at least he's quite the poet. Using plosives, fricatives, imagery, synaesthesia and even other underrated literary devices, he delivers the lines perfectly.

Looking forward to seeing how this story ends. I've gone to from touching my dick to savoring each line. Amazing.
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,420
14,167
I can somewhat agree with this but in the end those interactions are rather short and lack the proper "reward". As good as TD is as a writer it's still only an erotic VN and playing one skipping erotic scenes seems pointless to me. That is unless turning down sex gets us some interesting scene later on, e.g. when you skip the sex scene with Rosalind you get much juicer one later on and with Harper I'm guessing it will be similar. Something like this I approve 100%.

I do like to check out different outcomes, because characters here are very well written and the game is interesting even in "censored" state but if I was here only for the story I would rather replay Planescape: Torment or Age of Decadence and not eroge.
Again, I disagree. This game has the unusual property of making turning down sex feel like a reward, because the struggle between the MC's different aspects is a big part of the story and we are sufficiently inside the MC's head to see how his choices reflect on that struggle. I don't want to take advantage of Rosalind, and by refusing her deal I can feel that I didn't do so. That's a sufficient reward in my book, even if this game is designed as an AVN.

Obviously we'll have to see what happens as time goes on, but I think it's a serious mistake to insist that choices are only valid if they lead to equal lewd scenes on each branch. Lewd scenes are important, definitely, but there are other aspects of the game that matter too. It's nice to see an AVN lean in to those aspects while still delivering on the lewd content.

After all, it's not like porn is required to have bad stories. On the contrary, a good story can enhance the effectiveness of any sex scene tremendously by making us buy into the characters and their actions. Sometimes that can mean not showing a lewd scene to raise expectations for a hotter scene down the line... or simply to provide a wholesome platonic scene as a stark contrast for the depraved sex you'd get by indulging in the dark side. Both options can serve a purpose that an alternative sex scene wouldn't (at least not nearly as well). It doesn't need to be a 1:1 correspondence.

So I say keep offering interesting content even when we turn down sexy fun times. Go for the good story AND good lewd scenes. (And if the story winds up falling short of Planescape: Torment, well, that's hardly a black mark.)
 

sunaboz

Member
Donor
Jun 25, 2018
481
1,742
Obviously we'll have to see what happens as time goes on, but I think it's a serious mistake to insist that choices are only valid if they lead to equal lewd scenes on each branch.
It seems I wasn't clear enough, I merely stated that this being eroge means that erotic scenes should take precedence and later I admitted that even in "censored" state this game is interesting, just not interesting enough for me to waste time on it when in the end it's just a brothel Visual Novel.

Of course I don't think that there should only be lewd choices to choose from, otherwise it wouldn't be a choice, would it? That contrast is needed to better appreciate what we get and there are scenes where we can learn more about characters that way, often in humorous form. E.g. when we turn Felicia down her response is hilarious (see attached images) but in the end I'll reload anyway and go with as much lewd scenes as I can. Simple as that.
 
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bamachine

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2020
1,439
1,954
So far I think it is a very well put together game. I hate non-consensual content and although this flirts with that line, so far it hasn't stepped over that line(please don't cross it). I do hate that Veronica is there because of manipulation, I just hope her manipulator gets what is coming to him. I king of want to setup Mina with Veronica and my character settles down with Hana, after helping all the carnations get what they need.
 

MingoSuave

Newbie
May 30, 2020
76
65
Im still of the opinion that Killians more into the idea of having a girlfriend thats a model than having an actual girlfriend since he clearly doesnt want to put in the work. As for Edwin being bad for her, likely depends on what version of edwin we're talking about.

So we can all agree that Darius is swimming with the fishes, right?
 

RC-1138 Boss

Message Maven
Apr 26, 2017
13,493
20,288
Im still of the opinion that Killians more into the idea of having a girlfriend thats a model than having an actual girlfriend since he clearly doesnt want to put in the work. As for Edwin being bad for her, likely depends on what version of edwin we're talking about.

So we can all agree that Darius is swimming with the fishes, right?
I think Killian suffers from "hero worship" so he wants to be like Chuck: be a playboy who cares for nothing other than debauchery. Having a girlfriend is likely part of his persona he created/copied.


After how sure "uncle Chuck" was the guy wasn't coming back? I would say Chuck gave him some cement shoes himself. :devilish:
 

NukaCola

Engaged Member
Jul 1, 2017
3,936
4,616
Poor Mina. She's screwed either way in my game. Because my Edwin is discovering that he is a sadistic bastard. And he's relishing the idea of taking Mina from Killian.

But yes, you could play the good guy. Or at least as good a guy as you can be while working for the Carnation club. Whether that makes you deserving of Mina is highly questionable. She's the one girl who is innocent (at least in context of the club's activities.) Hana fans may not want to see it but Hana works at the club, which means that, however indirectly, she supports what they do (unless I've missed something and there's some reason she has no choice but to work there.)
If you play as the good guy I think MC is a far better choice than Killian for Mina. And about Hana isn't she working there to support her sick mother?
 

Smarmint

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,220
4,850
What a gem. I just started playing this a few days ago, and it has really stuck in my mind. I had seen it on the Latest Updates page from time to time, and other threads around here, and it was in my "to play" directory for a long time, but I had just never gotten around to it, mainly because of the HS graphics, and the overall theme from the brief description seemed interesting, but didn't grab me immediately.

But, when I started the game, I could see right away that the dialog is really very good. You slowly start to see more and more depth to the characters as this game progresses. I love how each character does not fit into the little box that they would inhabit in most games here. The MC himself starts out as the blank-slate "good-guy" that I see in many games here, but with time, you can see he can subtly change based on his choices throughout the game.

Every other character starts out seeming like one thing, but expands from that simple definition more and more as the game continues. Rosalind starts out as the "mother type", but is showing more and more signs of inner power, which you can see flashes of in some scenes. It is still early, but I can tell that we will see more and more of her true motivations with time. Felicia starts out looking like the easy spurned wife, but despite her vivacious nature, there is a fierce intelligence behind her eyes. I loved how in the first Carnation scene she was the only one to really try to analyze the situation, and adjust her dialog and behavior to match the MCs preferences. I thought she should have won the competition there, just because the other two women just played to their type regardless of how the MC behaved. But it was up to the judges in the audience, so they might not have seen it.

Veronica, while I didn't like her character much at first, grows on you. See seemed one-dimensional at the start, and I am not usually into muscular, overly dominant women, but she slowly starts to open up, and you can see that she is struggling with her inner nature, which isn't just a need for dominance, and it is fun to see. And Kathleen, what a well written character. You start off thinking of her as a business woman, then you see her sadism start to show, but I still get the sense that there is more behind her character than we are seeing. I hope that we can see a little more of her background, to understand her better, and see that there is more depth to her motivations, and that she can show other qualities as well. I am not clear yet, for example, if the MC can help her grow as a character, past her sadistic and selfish tendencies, but I would love to see this. Her character has great potential. Even the relationship with Killian is great. Usually all male characters in these games are sidelined immediately, but I can tell that there is real affection between the MC and Killian, and he is a good foil to play against, good-naturedly.

I could go on and on (too late, haha), but my overall point is that the writing is excellent, and the complexity of most of the characters is far above what I typically see in other VNs here, even ones that I like that I consider top-tier. Great job to the devs for turning what could have been a straightforward story, with cliched stock characters, into something much more interesting, where each character reveals more and more depth and growth as the game progresses.

The graphics are surprisingly great. I generally stick with DAZ games because of the much better graphics and realism, but there are a few HS games I enjoy a lot due to the story (HH, OIAL, a few others). I thought OIAL had the gold medal for pushing the HS graphics quality as far as possible but the Gil and TD have have done an amazing job making the graphics stand out here. I really don't know how they do it. Clearly with lots of mods, but I am very surprised by the high graphics quality they were able to achieve with HS graphics. They have done a great job with both character design, making each character look unique and outside the typical HS mold, and overall graphical quality.

Finally I have to mention the sex scenes. I usually play these games for the story, with the sex scenes as a fun bonus, and something to look forward to eventually, but the dialog, story, and character growth is what drives me to play these games and holds the most sway for me in how much I enjoy the game. So for me, character comes first, then dialog is a close second, then story, and then finally the sex scenes. Some of my favorite games don't have the best sex scene mechanics, or visuals, but with Pale Carnations, the sex scenes here are very good. The combination of choices of the MC, the women's budding personalities showing through, and the situation itself, make the sex scenes very hot. I loved the scenes with Kathleen, and the ability to surprise her a bit, that was a lot of fun. And the carnations scene with Felicia was amazing. I loved the little whispered dialog between her and the MC. I would have loved it to be a lot longer, but I understand that it was limited due to the constraints of the story and scene itself. I hope to see a lot more like that in the future.

All in all, Pale Carnations was a very pleasant surprise, and I enjoyed playing it immensely. The devs have really made something special, and I very much look forward to seeing how things progress with each of the characters, and how the MC guides his character, based on the choices and directions he goes in the game.
 
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TD1900

#701
Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
790
7,358
I thought she should have won the competition there, just because the other two women just played to their type regardless of how the MC behaved. But it was up to the judges in the audience, so they might not have seen it.
Thanks for taking the time sharing your thoughts and writing such a thorough comment. It's the sort of currency that keeps both GIL and I motivated and we appreciate it. :)

You might already know this, but Felicia can win round 1 depending on the choice matrix you pick for the scene. It's been awhile since I designed it, but I think she might have the highest number of winning combination, and if not, it's tied with Veronica. Rosalind has the least iirc.
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,420
14,167
Thanks for taking the time sharing your thoughts and writing such a thorough comment. It's the sort of currency that keeps both GIL and I motivated and we appreciate it. :)

You might already know this, but Felicia can win round 1 depending on the choice matrix you pick for the scene. It's been awhile since I designed it, but I think she might have the highest number of winning combination, and if not, it's tied with Veronica. Rosalind has the least iirc.
You are, unsurprisingly, correct: Felicia wins 5 of the 12 possible combos, Veronica 4 and Rosalind 3.

Interestingly, Felicia can't win any scenario where the MC is looking for an "attentive" woman, nor where his ideal woman will "care for" him. It would seem displaying genuine affection is Felicia's kryptonite (at least in public).
 

MoarDakka123

Active Member
Jul 7, 2020
926
1,240
You are, unsurprisingly, correct: Felicia wins 5 of the 12 possible combos, Veronica 4 and Rosalind 3.

Interestingly, Felicia can't win any scenario where the MC is looking for an "attentive" woman, nor where his ideal woman will "care for" him. It would seem displaying genuine affection is Felicia's kryptonite (at least in public).
Wait, do you have a chart for this scene lying around somewhere?
 

TD1900

#701
Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
790
7,358
Wait, do you have a chart for this scene lying around somewhere?
Here's a a shoddily captured screenshot of the one in ZoeyRaven's walk through, which in turn was originally a shoddily captured screenshot that I gave to him of a word document.

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