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SharkVampire

Active Member
Sep 12, 2018
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I tend to prefer the way Honey Select and Koikatsu look to DAZ and the like.

The more realistic 3D games can look absolutely beautiful. But if it's the slightest bit wrong it can give me an uncanny valley feeling.

Even a giant game like Being a Dik, which usually looks great, has moments where certain characters just look creepy and inhuman to me. Or they zoom in on a character and their skin doesn't look like real skin. Just some weird leathery gross substance.
Ha-ha I know what you mean. Jill in BDIK despite having a huge fan base give me uncanny valley, she basically look like doll with some human features and creeps me off, lol. Sage in that regard looks more like a human being.
Aside from that, I like both types of games Daz and HS. HS certainly has it's own charm: this eastern approach to graphic in girls looks exotic and perhaps therefore attractive, as happens with anime, for example, which has huge Western fanbase for a reason.
 

forthewins

Member
Feb 5, 2021
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401
Ha-ha I know what you mean. Jill in BDIK despite having a huge fan base give me uncanny valley, she basically look like doll with some human features and creeps me off, lol.
Exactly. Both Jill and Maya often don't look human to me. Really takes you out of the story when that's happening.
 
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Turret

Forum Fanatic
Jun 23, 2017
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Ha-ha I know what you mean. Jill in BDIK despite having a huge fan base give me uncanny valley, she basically look like doll with some human features and creeps me off, lol. Sage in that regard looks more like a human being.
Aside from that, I like both types of games Daz and HS. HS certainly has it's own charm: this eastern approach to graphic in girls looks exotic and perhaps therefore attractive, as happens with anime, for example, which has huge Western fanbase for a reason.
Exactly. Both Jill and Maya often don't look human to me. Really takes you out of the story when that's happening.
I know what you mean! There are more than a couple of games with characters whose DAZ likeness is, let us say, "interesting". Ever seen the Celebrity collection for DAZ? Some are wellmade, but the vast majority makes a Zombie from the movies more lifelike und fitting!
As I wrote in an earlier post, for a free, at least the basics, program, DAZ is quite powerful and you can get some amazing results. But since the really useful assets, presets and tools are way overpriced (and few very rarely free) to balance the free Base, Devs of comics and games have to balance their expenses for DAZ too. You then reach uncanny valley territory quite quickly, in special because getting the scenes right without a couple of presets and tools would be fiddly and more important time-consuming to make 100% by hand.
That might be ok for fan artists or those who just render specific scene types, but if you make a game, you have to either buy lots of pricey DAZ assets or make it by hand, which then is time-consuming. That is one reason so many Devs use the DAZ stuff they have right out of the box, with few variations.
 
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Smarmint

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Mar 23, 2019
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For me, I wouldn't go so far as to say that HS graphics are can be superior or even really on par with DAZ graphics. There are bad examples of both around here, but with a little effort, Daz renders far surpass the capability of HS-based graphics in terms of realism, natural character expressions, lighting definitely, shadows, and environments. Look at Halfway House or AOA Academy for the best examples of smaller games. Of course, games like CoBD, blow everything else out of the water in terms of graphical quality. Yes, there are some uncanny valley renders I've seen, even in the best games, but some of the renders I've seen I have to blink a few times to be sure I am not looking at a photograph.

I think the biggest limitation are the character models and skin detail. Also, HS Studio is still limited by the asian-model based engine of the HS Studio. You can extend it quite a lot with mods to make more western style characters, but it is not really possible to get the kind of amazing diversity of characters you can get with Daz. Take a look at the hundreds and hundreds of unique, distinctive, and quite beautiful models on Daz store, and you won't find anything like this if you look at HS cards on the many sites that have them.

As an example, look at the very beautiful and unique Daz models of , , or (below) for example.



There is no way to make anything compatible in HS. Even if you get the face shape and features sort of close, you will never see the skin detail, the eye reflections, texture on the lips, detailed teeth, or natural facial expressions. etc.

Most HS games have quite limited graphics and use the default animations and terrible looking MCs. Pale Carnations does the best with the limitations of the engine, and I haven't seen a better example of HS graphics done well, as with this game. Some others such as Once in a Lifetime also do such a good job that I tend to forget that the graphics are not rendered, when I am focusing on the story.

Not everyone has a super-powered rendering machine, or the ability to spend hundreds of hours and lots of money on electricity to keep a rendering PC running full-out to make detailed renders. I am amazed with games like Pale Carnations, just how good they have been able to make the graphics with HS, and I want to specifically give credit to the devs for going way past the limitations of the HS Studio engine with mods, that really bump up the realism of the characters.

Also, if the story and characters are good enough, I can mostly forget about even sub-par graphics. There are quite a few Daz games here that have pretty basic graphics that are nowhere near the quality that is possible, usually because of lack of sophistication in lighting techniques and using old generation models, that I still enjoy a lot due to the storytelling and dialog, and there are even one or two Kokatsu based games here, which can never have realistic looking graphics because of the engine, that are fun to play.
 
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Smarmint

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Mar 23, 2019
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Well, I agree you are technically Hana and tight that Mina could be half-sisters, I don't see how it adds to the story, nor does it make a lot of sense, it would be one thing if they were huge enemies, or had some kind of interaction other than aquaintences, but I tend to think that long lost relatives in stories need a reason. I think their similarity of appearance is more due to the limitations of HS than intentional by the devs, but what do I know!
 
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desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
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It may be better to keep this Daz/HS talk via private messages before a zealous mod delete everything.
I think mods going berserk on a thread usually happens when some butthurt kids report a bunch of stuff. That it didn't happen in this thread yet, afaik, is an indication that the fan base for this game is on the mature side.
 

Turret

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Jun 23, 2017
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Well, I agree you are technically Hana and tight that Mina could be half-sisters, I don't see how it adds to the story, nor does it make a lot of sense, it would be one thing if they were huge enemies, or had some kind of interaction other than aquaintences, but I tend to think that long lost relatives in stories need a reason. I think their similarity of appearance is more due to the limitations of HS than intentional by the devs, but what do I know!
I agree that the similarities of several characters are likely more related to HS renders being used than them being related storywise. And if there were more to it than just HS style pics, then it would only be a thing in some storylines, not all. But in the end this was just some shot into the blue speculation during the wait for the next update.
PC is one of the most wellwritten games on site, it is really fun to speculate and make scenarios of what could happen.
 
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forthewins

Member
Feb 5, 2021
198
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For me, I wouldn't go so far as to say that HS graphics are can be superior or even really on par with DAZ graphics.
Yes, there are some uncanny valley renders I've seen, even in the best games
Don't you see the contradiction here, though? Personally if a game has ANY uncanny valley stuff going on it's never going to look as beautiful as a game like Pale Carnations does to me. I'd rather lose the absolute high end of realistic graphics to avoid ever having to deal with the low end, that as you say even the best games often have.

Personally I think if you're a master at this stuff, i.e. the creator of Summer's Gone, then by all means, go for the ultra realism. If you're not a master though I'd prefer graphics that leave more to the imagination instead of clearly showing you things that look all kinds of wrong.

Just my opinion though, and for the sake of not going further off topic I'll stop posting on this matter.
 

SharkVampire

Active Member
Sep 12, 2018
679
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When I wrote my post I didn't remember Mina's father was shown in game. Well, there is still room for speculation, she could be adopted, or her father is a brother for August. Wild theory, but why not, actually?:D
What it would give for the plot? Hmm, aside from the Santa Barbara effect, it can justify Mina's joining the club and in long run some perverted insect staff like can be possible with Hana: August will watch Hana sexually serving PC members (which is hot stuff, IMO), or he trying to seduce Mina knowing she is his niece.

But if no of these speculations are true, there is still justification for this. Even in real life, there is always a person who can live in another part of the world and looks exactly like you. We are all same species. It's like with one of my friends, I always joke about him that when he was born he took standard settings for generating his character's appearance, because I swear, I've seen around 5-7 people who look really like him lol (around 70% match), and it's just in my city, so we laugh about this.
 

Mograx

Active Member
Oct 16, 2019
668
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You can speculate all you want while waiting for the update, but Mina and Hana being relatives is a bit ridiculous and far-fetched. I have a theory too : Rosalind is the real mother of the MC, and I swear it's not because I'm a fan of incest :4Head:
lol I genuinely like the idea. But I think it would have much more merit if he grew up an orphan or something. His mother seems to be an integral staple of his character. A sort of tether to stability as to not lose himself. To throw in a twist like that would kind of undermine her already established role in Edwin's life, making her character largely pointless.

The lack of an incest tag makes it questionable as well, ALTHOUGH I will concede I have played a game or 2 on here where the tag was specifically not added to avoid spoilers lol.

Maybe if it's revealed Mom and Rosalind were BFFs back in the day at some point. Now that would spice things up for this theory. Until then though, I just don't see it happening.
 

Turret

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Jun 23, 2017
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You can speculate all you want while waiting for the update, but Mina and Hana being relatives is a bit ridiculous and far-fetched. I have a theory too : Rosalind is the real mother of the MC, and I swear it's not because I'm a fan of incest :4Head:
While that is an interesting speculation, with all kinds of consequences, I agree with Mograx that Edwin´s Mum being his Mum and all she has done, is a very integral part of who he is. I doubt such a curveball will be thrown storywise, it is rather clear the main casts personalities were chosen like this with something in mind.

When I wrote my post I didn't remember Mina's father was shown in game. Well, there is still room for speculation, she could be adopted, or her father is a brother for August. Wild theory, but why not, actually?:D
What it would give for the plot? Hmm, aside from the Santa Barbara effect, it can justify Mina's joining the club and in long run some perverted insect staff like can be possible with Hana: August will watch Hana sexually serving PC members (which is hot stuff, IMO), or he trying to seduce Mina knowing she is his niece.
Likewise an interesting speculation. But I cannot see something with August and Hana with what we know at the moment.
While August botched his introduction into Hana´s life massivly, him being a frequent visitor at Hana´s concerts and you gettiing RPs with August for defending Hana aggressively against the Lech in the Club, shows that he might be late in recognising his offspring, but he definitely cares deeply now.

My take on these hints is that the "tasks" for good and/or slightly perverted Edwin would be along the line to help repair Hana and Augusts relationship, pursuing Hana and maybe convince Hana to "let loose and be adventurous" a bit, but only moderately. I can imagine August and Chuck trying to groom Edwin and Hana to be their successors (and married) on one of the good paths. In a more "wholesome" way if on a good path, in an "interesting" way on "not so good" playthroughs.

Bringing Hana completely into PC or warping Hana´s relations with August and the others I would see as something "to do" for bad and/or in league with Kate Edwin. Kate´s talk with Warren about Hana and Edwin showed that a) August cares what happens in the club and b) he might have some shady sides to him, but August has higher standards than both Kate and Warren.
While a slightly corrupted Hana will be possible on a good path, be it in the Club and/or inside/outside with Edwin, a fully corrupted Hana is probably only possible on bad playthroughs.

But besides new Hana stuff, I am looking forward to see how TP and Gil will bring Mina into closer orbit of PC. At the moment she is "only in it" slightly due to her relations with Killian and Edwin. One of the things might be Mina´s curiousity. Her coming from a sheltered (and not really nice going by the hints given) all Girls school, has given her a curiousity about life shady characters can abuse. That becomes clear during the Truth or Dare game. Hana only did a friendly teasing and ribbing, people like Kate, Warren or some of the club members could be much more predatory.
 

Turret

Forum Fanatic
Jun 23, 2017
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Understandably, it looks like this game will be on hold for a while.

Condolences to TD.
What do you mean, Watcher X ? Oh Frak!

While the words might sound hollow for those who lost a loved one, I mean them sincerely: Death is the last border of Life, but not for Love! Keep the good times in your heart, you will meet each other again one day.
My condolences to TD and his family
 
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