VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[selberdreher]

Edwin thinking back to a movie of his Mom having fun to cope better with the filming he was doing with Rosi.

Also just a quick post, because i need to get ready for work.

I agree fully with you why we have this flashback / memory / dreamlike sequence, it's also in my opinion a coping mechanism.
I cannot rule out the possibility that there was indeed a 1 on 1 B/G video of her, that's true.

However for the reasons i mentioned i still believe it's a glorified and sugarcoated version of that supposed B/G video, precisely because it functions as a coping mechanism.

As stated before: i would be surprised if this scene really happened as it's shown to us.

 

[Turret]

Do you have any evidence? We have mountains that they are not having sex at all. I haven't seen anyone mention then but if you think Ian and Victoria are/have had sex why is Ian still having real deep (for Ian) conversations about how Ian feels about Mina/love in general? Why would he then invite you the next day just wanting to hang out? Did he finally decide to tell you after months/years of them fucking? Big bad Ian couldnt lie anymore after he was honest with Edwin? Sorry but your take relies on Ian being simultaneously uncaring and loving towards Edwin.
Ian can tell his maid to clean his Main to clean cum off the floor with her tounge (or tell her to make him a grilled cheese after they fuck) without batting an eye. He visibly becomes awkward and nervous ANYTIME Victoria says penis. I guess that is just part of his master plan to trick Edwin (that Ian has been planning since he was a "loser" and Edwin was literally his only friend).

I agree with you on this. Ian surely has a crush on Victoria, but he never acted on it so far. Ian´s occasional ackwardness with Victoria and Mina are signs that he really likes them. In the whole game Killian only gets ackward with girls/women he truly has feelings for. On one hand he has been mentored to be the big playboy, but on the other hand really likes Vicki and Mina, so the clash between what he thinks he is supposed to do and what he wants to do is inevitable. There are reasons why we should help our friend.

I think that is a valid viewpoint but it is complicated by the fact that you choose to "pursue" Rose, and even more than that you have to choose to preform when Ian is a 100% valid option. Why would he rather think of his mom having fun sex when he is having fun sex with a women he is attracted to (if pursuing)? By that point he has had his dick out in front of the customers no matter what, hell early on the 2nd exhibition night you can whip it out unrelated to the competition on felicas request (for a "measuring contest") so its not being on stage that requires coping.
The only thing I can see that he could be needing to cope with at that time is the fact that it is being "filmed for release" but even if it can be released (I doubt it ever will as it serves nothing other than to piss Rose/Edwin off at this point), given that if you see the scene of Edwin and Rose fucking you 100% see chuck telling kathleen to not fuck with Edwin too much so the chances of the video getting released are really low (unless Kathleen is ready for war)

I think Edwin thinks about Vicki´s having fun pornfilms to cope with the whole situation of this improvised and maybe sold pornshot. Thinking about Rosi does only help on the sex front, but not the other things. His Mom had fun doing several pornfilms, despite her situation and that they were sold and still it turned out ok. So he is thinking about his Mom´s movies more than about Rosi.

Edit: Big disagree on Ian wanting to be a normal boyfriend though, while he does care about Mina (probably 3rd to Chuck/Edwin) he actively cheated on her where she could see so she would try harder in bed (his exact words). His family absolutely fucked his views on love/relationships up but I dont think they taught him that.

I never said we should help Ian becoming a "normal" boyfriend, did I? I am for helping Ian and Mina repair their relationship because those two still click together, there are several hints on that. How normal their "normal" relationship would look after getting together again, is another question.
For instance, just being open to each other more might have prevented that "cheating USB" in the first place. Ian likes wild sex, Mina obviously dreams about wild sex too. Just look at her sex bucket list, she seriously wants to test out!
Helping Ian get more clues how to have a halfway normal relationship and get Killian and Mina to talk to each other openly about what they want, should go a long way to save their relationhip.

 

[starkj]

Mina also says Ian never did what MC did to her, he only cared about his own pleasure and not hers. How can you have a perfect girl like Mina and not treat her well goes beyond me.

 

[ReservoirCreature]

Got a couple questions that I'm too lazy to re-read to get the answers to:

What is Mina's little brother's name?

What is the name of the ambassador from New Zealand that has a thing for Dalia?

Who scouted/sponsored Felicia as a candidate carnation? Was it Ian?

 

[McGreed]

So you want to restore a broken relationship? Also how do you know Mina cares about the relationship in the same way Ian does? She admits to Edwin that she often (like Edwin) has to sort of guess how to feel about things and THIS IS HER FIRST RELATIONSHIP AT ALL. The only "relationship" she had prior were flings to relive sexual tension in her all girls school. So Mina someone who has to guess how to feel and has never been in a relationship really cares about Ian someone who has been cheating on her for the majority of their relationship? Their relationship is manipulative and emotionally abusive (BECAUSE IAN ADMITS TO CHEATING ON MINA WHERE SHE CAN SEE TO HURT HER SO SHE FEELS COMPELLED TO TRY HARDER IN BED) and it is all Ian doing that to Mina, when she finally cheats it is not with a random girl, or two, or a maid, or a prostitute it is with the first person to understand her having to act like a proper human.

Ian likes wild sex? Why did they ever only at best 1 for 1? Ian likes to use women (he gets points when Edwin says "I want to treat women as object during the birthday drinking game with Hana and Mina) not have wild, good, considerate, or equal sex. I mean when you refuse her first offer for a blowjob after you make her cum once she genuinely does not understand, she is not trying to be demure or innocent she really just does not think that is how "sex goes" (at least with Ian). So ask yourself why someone who is fine with making his childhood maid lick his cum off the floor, or fucking in front of 10+ old men, or someone who has had stuff shoved up his ass by kathleen would only be doing the same amount of stuff that Lucy and her husband do?

Think of how Ian treats EVERY GIRL (even Hana) at the club, he constantly berates and excretes his power over them. Felica's punishment game for the first exhibition is the best example of this: Of all the girls Felicia is most ok with being covered in cum, she isnt the happiest in the world but she maintains banter similar to her normal style no matter who is jacking off on her. Until Ian gets there.... At first she thinks nothing of it then he starts to tell her to shut the fuck up, calling her a whore, telling her how long he has been waiting to talk to her like this. Felicia's reaction to this is one of her most confused moments in the entire game even Edwin is like "bro wtf". Now imagine Mina exploring her bucket list is Ian going to help her do them? Maybe. Is Ian going to be supportive the whole time and help her actually explore her feelings about them? lol no. Is Ian going to call her a slut/whore everytime she wants to do anything he does not deem vanilla? absolutely.

Lastly a huge flaw I dont think you've noticed is who is going to be helping them get more clues to a "normal" relationship? Edwin? The character who is currently contemplating if monogamy is possible in his new line of work? If he can even have a girlfriend? That is the blind leading the blind asshole who is trying to stick his dick in any and every hole.

Sorry about the more anger fueld reply than most, I understand wanting to help a "bro" out or not caring about Mina but saying that she should go back to him is borderline illogical.

Edit: Also due to this being a game Edwin would likely have to watch, or be involved with Mina and Ian if we want to see her bucket list scenes, or we would have to watch one or multiple scenes with no Edwin involvement at all (no inner thoughts, no struggle,no growth as a character) just Ian calling Mina a whore for wanting to enjoy sex. (also this would summon a whole new world of NTR posts)

Wow. It's been awhile since I've read long message where I can agree with almost every single word.

 

[ReservoirCreature]

Believe it of not, in my run i actively rejected Mina due to purely story reasons.

Same here. I shut her down because I'm not interested in helping her cheat. If she were to leave Ian then I'd be open to a relationship but she needs to cut it off with Ian first.

Nevermind the fact that I'm already helping Felicia cheat . . .

 

[Turret]

So you want to restore a broken relationship? Also how do you know Mina cares about the relationship in the same way Ian does? She admits to Edwin that she often (like Edwin) has to sort of guess how to feel about things and THIS IS HER FIRST RELATIONSHIP AT ALL. The only "relationship" she had prior were flings to relive sexual tension in her all girls school. So Mina someone who has to guess how to feel and has never been in a relationship really cares about Ian someone who has been cheating on her for the majority of their relationship? Their relationship is manipulative and emotionally abusive (BECAUSE IAN ADMITS TO CHEATING ON MINA WHERE SHE CAN SEE TO HURT HER SO SHE FEELS COMPELLED TO TRY HARDER IN BED) and it is all Ian doing that to Mina, when she finally cheats it is not with a random girl, or two, or a maid, or a prostitute it is with the first person to understand her having to act like a proper human.

Ian likes wild sex? Why did they ever only at best 1 for 1? Ian likes to use women (he gets points when Edwin says "I want to treat women as object during the birthday drinking game with Hana and Mina) not have wild, good, considerate, or equal sex. I mean when you refuse her first offer for a blowjob after you make her cum once she genuinely does not understand, she is not trying to be demure or innocent she really just does not think that is how "sex goes" (at least with Ian). So ask yourself why someone who is fine with making his childhood maid lick his cum off the floor, or fucking in front of 10+ old men, or someone who has had stuff shoved up his ass by kathleen would only be doing the same amount of stuff that Lucy and her husband do?

Think of how Ian treats EVERY GIRL (even Hana) at the club, he constantly berates and excretes his power over them. Felica's punishment game for the first exhibition is the best example of this: Of all the girls Felicia is most ok with being covered in cum, she isnt the happiest in the world but she maintains banter similar to her normal style no matter who is jacking off on her. Until Ian gets there.... At first she thinks nothing of it then he starts to tell her to shut the fuck up, calling her a whore, telling her how long he has been waiting to talk to her like this. Felicia's reaction to this is one of her most confused moments in the entire game even Edwin is like "bro wtf". Now imagine Mina exploring her bucket list is Ian going to help her do them? Maybe. Is Ian going to be supportive the whole time and help her actually explore her feelings about them? lol no. Is Ian going to call her a slut/whore everytime she wants to do anything he does not deem vanilla? absolutely.

Lastly a huge flaw I dont think you've noticed is who is going to be helping them get more clues to a "normal" relationship? Edwin? The character who is currently contemplating if monogamy is possible in his new line of work? If he can even have a girlfriend? That is the blind leading the blind asshole who is trying to stick his dick in any and every hole.

Sorry about the more anger fueld reply than most, I understand wanting to help a "bro" out or not caring about Mina but saying that she should go back to him is borderline illogical.

Edit: Also due to this being a game Edwin would likely have to watch, or be involved with Mina and Ian if we want to see her bucket list scenes, or we would have to watch one or multiple scenes with no Edwin involvement at all (no inner thoughts, no struggle,no growth as a character) just Ian calling Mina a whore for wanting to enjoy sex. (also this would summon a whole new world of NTR posts)

Hi! You are very cherrypicking with your examples and interpreting some sentences in just your way, esp. since we are rather certainly on different routes through the game which are not the same, but that is your choice.
We are discussing standpoints here, nothing more. I never said that repairing their relationship was easy, nor that it is guaranteed to function. Still, when you look at the whole story so far and not just the surface, you can see that Ian and Mina click. They actually made it this far, which is quite a feat considering how messed up relationshipwise current Ian is compared to old Ian and that they made one of the most common mistakes in a relationship: communicating not enough or with too much holding back about important topics.

I could put together some examples for my viewpoint here, which are from scenes and events which might not be quite the same text- and eventwise as the ones you played, but that is considering some of your other posts vergebliche Mühe (vain endavour).
It is quite obvious that you absolutely dislike/hate Ian and see him incapable of change, that is your option to see him so. But I do not need someone going Hulk on me for the Ian of his/her playthrough, which rather certainly is not quite the same Ian of my playthrough. Sorry if that sounded harsh, but as a German I am used to giving it straight.
I have no problems discussing it further, but let me tell you getting so angry over some VN characters is not good for your health. That we are passionate about these characters is good, it shows how well done they are, but you are building up a serious head of steam about it.

 

[Turret]

Spoiler: largely irrelevant for most people

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I would be very interested in some of this alternative scenes/text where Ian is redeemed is posted because after a playthrough with the Universal Ren'py mod (which allows you to see all text/paths/variables) I dont really recall there being much in that way beyond the phone call after the USB which doesn't have an alternative version of Ian it is just a scene where he is more vulnerable.

Spoiler: Irrelevant to most others answer

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As I wrote in a post before, you interpret some of the text very specifically, not necessarilly the whole situation. There are (correctly) scenes where Ian let out an unmitigated a..., behaviour, but there are also scenes where the in-between tones of the situation at hand count a lot.

 

[Deleted member 4058859]

Hi! You are very cherrypicking with your examples and interpreting some sentences in just your way, esp. since we are rather certainly on different routes through the game which are not the same, but that is your choice.
We are discussing standpoints here, nothing more. I never said that repairing their relationship was easy, nor that it is guaranteed to function. Still, when you look at the whole story so far and not just the surface, you can see that Ian and Mina click. They actually made it this far, which is quite a feat considering how messed up relationshipwise current Ian is compared to old Ian and that they made one of the most common mistakes in a relationship: communicating not enough or with too much holding back about important topics.

I could put together some examples for my viewpoint here, which are from scenes and events which might not be quite the same text- and eventwise as the ones you played, but that is considering some of your other posts vergebliche Mühe (vain endavour).
It is quite obvious that you absolutely dislike/hate Ian and see him incapable of change, that is your option to see him so. But I do not need someone going Hulk on me for the Ian of his/her playthrough, which rather certainly is not quite the same Ian of my playthrough. Sorry if that sounded harsh, but as a German I am used to giving it straight.
I have no problems discussing it further, but let me tell you getting so angry over some VN characters is not good for your health. That we are passionate about these characters is good, it shows how well done they are, but you are building up a serious head of steam about it.

While I agree viewpoints can be different I have known plenty of relationships irl that lasted way longer than they should have - it does not mean the people 'clicked' its just that the relationships were abusive. And I personally think Ian and Mina's relationship was a bit abusive at least the way it is portrayed in the game. When you enter your first relationship, it is incredibly easy to be taken advantage of. You dont know your limits you dont know how to properly say no and you dont know how and where to draw the line. There is a lot more to relationships than just sexual compatibility - trust in your partner and not being emotionally manipulative/abusive is far far more important. While Mina was also willing to cheat on Ian with Edwin, I view it as a natural consequence of Ian's actions where he was a total dick to her for several months.

I think as with anything after the first couple of breakups you learn what worked and what did not and you apply what you learnt to future relationships going forward. There is of course the possibility that you may be lucky and you meet someone who is a good fit for you in your very first relationship but I think that when it comes to abusive relationships, someone who has dated and broken up in the past is more likely to stand up to their abusive partner and not be a doormat as compared to someone who is in their first relationship.

Your reasoning sounds extremely flawed to me but again - different viewpoints.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Going to have to agree with Simpgor here.
Ian is a sorry excuse for a human being no matter the player choices. Maybe in the future we will have the chance to help him change, likely by getting rid of "uncle" Chuck's influence, but so far the game paints a grim picture of him.

He is a shitty boyfriend who by Mina's own admission is never there to try to help her with anything unless there is a possibility of having sex with her. And on top of that he cheats right in front of Mina and even has the gall to let videos of his cheating in her house.
All in some effort to make her "try harder" on bed, according to his own words. A manipulative behaviour because Ian knows Mina is inexperienced in relationships (with men at least). Which is also a symptom of the way he treats every women he cross path with: as a piece of meat to be used, abused and discarded. Felicia being the third place in the first week exhibitions is a glaring example of this (as is the way he treats his mother's housekeep - her name escapes me right now).

So even if somehow Ian decides one day to become a decent person the damage he did to Mina is already done. I would not have Edwin help put Mina again in a relationship with someone who manipulated her like that, even if my Edwin isn't interested in Mina other than being friends. Abusive relationships are a no go to me.

 

[ename144]

It's been a while but we got a new dev diary today!

Spoiler: Dev Diary 43

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Sounds like we've made some good progress: in the 28 days since our last diary, TD and GIL have added 429 static renders, 13 animations, and 6990 words. That's an average of roughly 107 statics, 3.3 animations and 1748 words per week. Overall, they are now averaging ~113 statics, 2.2 animations and 2234 words per week since work on Chapter 4 Update 1 began. Here are the charts:

Spoiler: Distant Charts

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As you can see, using the art counts for Chapter 3 Update 1 as a benchmark we're currently looking at a release in the mid-late October timeframe, with animations being the bottleneck (and words having no direct point of comparison). Since TD says the current target is more of a mid-late September timeframe, that suggests the art counts are likely to be a bit lower than Ch3Up1. In theory we could also see a surge in the rendering rates to make up the difference; we have seen rates in the 170+ static/week and 8+ animation/week range in the past, and that would hit the Ch3Up1 numbers by the end of September. But normally one of those high rates comes at the expense of the other and in this case we'd need to redline both statics and animations to hit the target. So I think it's more likely the art count will be a little lower than anticipated and the rendering rates will only increase slightly.

That's my guess, anyway; we'll see how it turns out. Definitely looking forward to seeing Hana, and very curious to see what comes from spending time with Ian as well.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Any info on who else this update will be focused on other than Hana?

 

[TD1900]

Any info on who else this update will be focused on other than Hana?

Ian.

The update has 4 variable opening scenes, there's hanging out with Ian, and then there's Hana.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Ian.

The update has 4 variable opening scenes, there's hanging out with Ian, and then there's Hana.

So we can finally start influencing him to be less of a scumbag or will Edwin accompany him into some debauchery?

 

[ename144]

While I agree viewpoints can be different I have known plenty of relationships irl that lasted way longer than they should have - it does not mean the people 'clicked' its just that the relationships were abusive. And I personally think Ian and Mina's relationship was a bit abusive at least the way it is portrayed in the game. When you enter your first relationship, it is incredibly easy to be taken advantage of. You dont know your limits you dont know how to properly say no and you dont know how and where to draw the line. There is a lot more to relationships than just sexual compatibility - trust in your partner and not being emotionally manipulative/abusive is far far more important. While Mina was also willing to cheat on Ian with Edwin, I view it as a natural consequence of Ian's actions where he was a total dick to her for several months.

I think as with anything after the first couple of breakups you learn what worked and what did not and you apply what you learnt to future relationships going forward. There is of course the possibility that you may be lucky and you meet someone who is a good fit for you in your very first relationship but I think that when it comes to abusive relationships, someone who has dated and broken up in the past is more likely to stand up to their abusive partner and not be a doormat as compared to someone who is in their first relationship.

Your reasoning sounds extremely flawed to me but again - different viewpoints.

I don't think that anyone is debating that Ian has been a shitty boyfriend to Mina (or, for that matter, a relatively shitty person in general). The question is whether he can become something better.

We've seen that Ian wasn't always the toxic asshole he is now, and it seems pretty clear Chuck and the Carnation Club played a large role in why he changed. If negative reinforcement can turn Ian into a misogynistic playah, it seems plausible that positive reinforcement could cause him to develop a functional level of empathy - and the MC is one of the few people who Ian would potentially listen to.

Will that wind up happening? I don't know. Thus far in the story the MC has shown little interest in introspection in general, and no interest in trying to instill introspection in Ian. Still, it seems like introspection is on the menu with Chapter 4, and we know one of the first events will be hanging with our bro Ian. So I hold out hope the MC will finally be able to broach the topic with Ian directly. If so, we should have a much better idea whether repairing the Mina/Ian relationship is possible (or indeed a remotely good idea).

Having said all that, I do think there is one indication that patching up the relationship has always been a possibility - namely the fact that the Killian/Mina romance has a numerical counter in the first place. Ian's USB debacle is hardcoded, so it would seem that there'd be no need to track the variable. Indeed, AFAICT it plays no role in whether Mina will make her play for the MC in Chapter 3, either. Since it seems like the variable is still in play, I'm holding out hope that means we might be able to salvage something if we can get Ian's head screwed on straight and show him the error of his ways.

But that's just me, I've always been something of a hopeless romantic at heart.

Ian.

The update has 4 variable opening scenes, there's hanging out with Ian, and then there's Hana.

A day filled with with Veronica\Victoria, Ian and Hana! Sunday should be a good day. If only we could get both the Victoria and Veronica scenes I think it'd be just about ideal... depending on exactly what happens in those scenes, of course.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

A day filled with with Veronica\Victoria, Ian and Hana! Sunday should be a good day. If only we could get both the Victoria and Veronica scenes I think it'd be just about ideal... depending on exactly what happens in those scenes, of course.

Victoria and Veronica too? Nice.

ps: Hide your mom Edwin unless you want a new (step)mother.

 

[selberdreher]

There are a few trails of thought i wanted to reply to, so bear with me if i necro them at a later point. Right now i would like to contribute to this quite heated discussion.
As a disclaimer i think it's fair to say that i am like 95% in line with Simpgor, RC-1138 Boss, axeafxas, McGreed and starkj about Ian and his relationship to Mina.
Turret i hope you are aware, that i respect and appreciate your opinion highly, precisely because of your different view on this matter. Let me try to incorporate your reasoning into this post, because i don't think everything you said is completely outlandish.

Let's start with your main premise: Ian loves Mina
You said you need a bit of time to back your claim, that's okey take all the time you need. So for now lets keep this premise.

Another important premise of you is: Ian is a good friend to Edwin, there aren't too many good friends in a single lifetime, so cherish the few you have and help and support them, if they are in need.
Lets drop the question for now, whether or not Ian is really a good friend to Edwin or for Edwin, and just say he is.

So we should at least try to help him!

That's an honorable notion, which i can support: help a friend in need.

There is also a third premise we shouldn't overlook in this context:

Mina has become a friend quickly too.

Now i am starting to smell a conflict of interests:
Are you really convinced by helping Ian you do help Mina equally? Is it possible for Edwin to be an honest broker to them both?
Are the issues in this relationship not very one-sided? What exactly did Mina wrong in this relationship?

Let's say you succeed miraculously with this endeavour. How would you handle it? How much degradation and suffering, how many sacrifices should Mina undergo to save his relation to her? And why?

they made one of the most common mistakes in a relationship: communicating not enough or with too much holding back about important topics.

Well, we said you succeeded, they talked about their sexual preferences, realized they match well, and have now the sexlife they always dreamed of. Happy End.

Hmmmmm, No?
Because none of the other issues of Ian has been solved yet, not his Mothercomplex, not his misogynistic asshole attitude and also not his inability to commit to and to navigate in a relationship. Neither the more than unhealthy influence his 'Uncle' has on him.
Better sex does not solve these issues, nor does a heart to heart talk with his best friend.

If you want to be a true friend and really want to help him say:
"Bro, get a good therapist, work out those issues, and if you really love Mina try to win her back when you are ready for her. Don't let her shoulder your burden for the years to come, because this isn't solved in a few weeks. I will support you on your journey, you will always have me to talk to or to crash on my couch if you're lonely, or just to hang out and play a few games, if you don't feel like talking."

Nonetheless, go on and try, i will celebrate your success against all odds, and you will tell me if that was worth it.
But if you fail, and that risk is high and real, brace for multiples: "Told you so"

 

[selberdreher]

The question is whether he can become something better.

We've seen that Ian wasn't always the toxic asshole he is now, and it seems pretty clear Chuck and the Carnation Club played a large role in why he changed. If negative reinforcement can turn Ian into a misogynistic playah, it seems plausible that positive reinforcement could cause him to develop a functional level of empathy

Absolutely, it took 20 years of emotional neglect from his Mother, around 8+ years of influence from Chuck and ~3 years of CarnationClub to mold Ian into the young man he is today.
Victoria and Edwin battled these bad influences by being there for him for lets say 10 to 12+ (minus the last 3 years they hadn't much contact) years now. I think the result of this battle speaks for its own.

Yes, it's plausible that positive reinforcement may turn this around, but i don't believe it is possible in this short amount of time we are looking at in PaleCarnation. And it's not really plausible why we should involve Mina in this process.

In my opinion the right and honorable things to do would be:

• Don't start an affair with Mina, but push for a breakup. Ian is not ready for any relationship in his current condition.
• Get close to Grace and figure out her side of this strange relation she has with her son.
• Try to get Ian into college, to break his player lifestyle as a photographer, and to please Grace as a first step.
• Alienate Ian and his 'Uncle' by any means possible.
• Get Ian out of the Carnation Club by any means possible.
• and last but not least, as already mentioned, push for him to get professional help.

Having said all that, I do think there is one indication that patching up the relationship has always been a possibility - namely the fact that the Killian/Mina romance has a numerical counter in the first place.

The little help a 'patched up' relationship may provide to this steps doesn't outweigh the cost Mina has to pay, because she gains little for just as long as Ian needs to better himself, while still suffering from his personality during that time.
This is lost time she could spend instead with someone else with a healthy personality in a healthy relationship.

As we discussed the secondary stats of the carnations and our little angel and devil (it's up to you to decide who's the angel and who's the devil) we tended to focus on Minas bi-curious stat, whereas i think in truth her Killian Romance Score is more akin to Rosies Libido and Veros Horniness. I'll leave it to you, my fellow thread members, to ponder the implication of this statement.

In a nutshell, yes, it's possible to keep them together, yes, it may be possible to get Ians' head screwed straight, and which development you prefer depends also on your preferences and kinks, this is a porn game afterall.

At the moment i am torn between cucking the hell out of Ian, while Mina stays with him, and pushing for a breakup to officially claim her for MyEdwin as a Lover / Girlfriend.

 

[selberdreher]

To conclude this little trilogy, i'd like to focus on Mina, because sofar Ian was very prominent, while Mina was kind of a backdrop in most of the posts regarding their relationship.

The Question here would be: what course of action is in Minas best interest?

and without adding much more from myself,

i kind of like Machetes take on it here and there:

Nope. Because Mina broke up with Ian because he was a liar manwhore. So it makes not much sense for a white knighting MC to get with her when MC is also a liar manwhore.

in conjunction with axeafxas post on abusive relationships in general and how it can be applied to Mina x Ian. Worth a full repost in my opinion.

While I agree viewpoints can be different I have known plenty of relationships irl that lasted way longer than they should have - it does not mean the people 'clicked' its just that the relationships were abusive. And I personally think Ian and Mina's relationship was a bit abusive at least the way it is portrayed in the game. When you enter your first relationship, it is incredibly easy to be taken advantage of. You dont know your limits you dont know how to properly say no and you dont know how and where to draw the line. There is a lot more to relationships than just sexual compatibility - trust in your partner and not being emotionally manipulative/abusive is far far more important. While Mina was also willing to cheat on Ian with Edwin, I view it as a natural consequence of Ian's actions where he was a total dick to her for several months.

I think as with anything after the first couple of breakups you learn what worked and what did not and you apply what you learnt to future relationships going forward. There is of course the possibility that you may be lucky and you meet someone who is a good fit for you in your very first relationship but I think that when it comes to abusive relationships, someone who has dated and broken up in the past is more likely to stand up to their abusive partner and not be a doormat as compared to someone who is in their first relationship.

Bottomline is: as much as Ian is a threat to her well-being, choosing our MC over him is not necessarily better.

 

[Deleted member 4058859]

I don't think that anyone is debating that Ian has been a shitty boyfriend to Mina (or, for that matter, a relatively shitty person in general).

My post was in response to the statement saying Mina stayed with Ian for so long because they clicked and I disagreed with that viewpoint. I respect people's choices of wanting to explore alternate routes - I am doing that myself and exploring the asshole paths because I think the Kat route is very well written. My post was simply a general statement about relationships in response to the guy trying to justify Ian's behavior.

The right thing to do in my opinion is to give Mina her space and urge her to break up with Ian without taking advantage of her. My canon playthrough though is going to be different because 1) It is a game 2) I am a hypocrite, 3) I am a manwhore and 4) Mina is hot.