VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[selberdreher]

Side question.. Can you reference any good responses that dive into what these secondary stat's might mean? Appreciate it!

Simpgor gave the quick and dirty answer from the only authority in this thread which really counts, but if you are more interested in a discussion itself, you could start looking here and read the following posts. Although, and i simply can't find it quickly, there was a lot more earlier than that. Perhaps i can post a link later.

 

[selberdreher]

For me it is just a bit to early to start making concrete plans beyond wanting to stay of leave

Oh, there's no concrete plan, i don't even know if MyEdwins gonna stay or leave.
But the general idea, my playthrough is based on, would be to try some kind of 'undercover- /double-agent' thing in which i'll try to destroy the club from within, with the very real risk of failing completely and pathetically.

And end up as Kathleens plaything and watchdog, overseeing the shared gangbang of Hana, Mina and Victoria between the club members, while Rosie is milked in an industrial grade mechanical milker and Feli tries to stretch her asshole with a horsedick dildo. Veronica can play the human toilet for all he cares then.
Very bleak, i try to avoid that.

 

[Turret]

There are a few trails of thought i wanted to reply to, so bear with me if i necro them at a later point. Right now i would like to contribute to this quite heated discussion.
As a disclaimer i think it's fair to say that i am like 95% in line with Simpgor, RC-1138 Boss, axeafxas, McGreed and starkj about Ian and his relationship to Mina.
Turret i hope you are aware, that i respect and appreciate your opinion highly, precisely because of your different view on this matter. Let me try to incorporate your reasoning into this post, because i don't think everything you said is completely outlandish.

Let's start with your main premise: Ian loves Mina
You said you need a bit of time to back your claim, that's okey take all the time you need. So for now lets keep this premise.

Another important premise of you is: Ian is a good friend to Edwin, there aren't too many good friends in a single lifetime, so cherish the few you have and help and support them, if they are in need.
Lets drop the question for now, whether or not Ian is really a good friend to Edwin or for Edwin, and just say he is.

That's an honorable notion, which i can support: help a friend in need.

There is also a third premise we shouldn't overlook in this context:

Now i am starting to smell a conflict of interests:
Are you really convinced by helping Ian you do help Mina equally? Is it possible for Edwin to be an honest broker to them both?
Are the issues in this relationship not very one-sided? What exactly did Mina wrong in this relationship?

Let's say you succeed miraculously with this endeavour. How would you handle it? How much degradation and suffering, how many sacrifices should Mina undergo to save his relation to her? And why?

Well, we said you succeeded, they talked about their sexual preferences, realized they match well, and have now the sexlife they always dreamed of. Happy End.

Hmmmmm, No?
Because none of the other issues of Ian has been solved yet, not his Mothercomplex, not his misogynistic asshole attitude and also not his inability to commit to and to navigate in a relationship. Neither the more than unhealthy influence his 'Uncle' has on him.
Better sex does not solve these issues, nor does a heart to heart talk with his best friend.

If you want to be a true friend and really want to help him say:
"Bro, get a good therapist, work out those issues, and if you really love Mina try to win her back when you are ready for her. Don't let her shoulder your burden for the years to come, because this isn't solved in a few weeks. I will support you on your journey, you will always have me to talk to or to crash on my couch if you're lonely, or just to hang out and play a few games, if you don't feel like talking."

Nonetheless, go on and try, i will celebrate your success against all odds, and you will tell me if that was worth it.
But if you fail, and that risk is high and real, brace for multiples: "Told you so"

Hi and Greetings, selberdreher and ename144 and Ozygator !
Thumbs up for your nuanced posts!

As for some other posters, after reading several posts of the last days, I am rather pissed off! I am no friend of someone trying to either put or turn the words in my mouth or let onesided assumptions run free. I was seriously debating with myself if I should sacrifice some of my free time for another discussion post or simply give the longbowman salute about it and save the time.

So right at the beginning:
I stated several times in the thread that repairing or renewing Ian´s and Mina´s relationship would not be easy, precisely because they have a lot of baggage. Neither would a success be a given thing, but a possibility..
Another point is that Mina is very reluctant to end it with Ian and there is obviously more to their relationship than shown. I got flak for saying this, but that is a fact of the game! Read the posts correctly, that as a foreword to those riding high on the selfrighteous horse!

Now for some points to make
-Ian, no matter his problems, is a good friend to Edwin(I think that is something we can agree on), which is a rare thing in life. So trying to help him should be a no-brainer! That as a statement to those persons, who cannot wait to cuck him or so.
- We know that Ian was not always the chauvinist ass he now is. A lifetime of neglect by his parents, nearly a decade of "mentoring" by Chuck and a couple years in the Club made him that way. Even the decade to decade and a half (with the last 3 years only sporadic contact) of friendship with Edwin (and Victoria) could counteract only so much against the wave of negativity.
- We can either try to bring more of old Ian back (that is something we will need time for), helping Ian seeing the light that his put on player personality will likely destroy his relationship with Mina if he does not do something(that can be done within the constraints of the game) or for some players it might be a choice, help Ian corrupting Mina.

- Once again, we have seen few of Mina´s and Ian´s interactions, but if you look at the drinking games, selfies and some other events, there are obvious hints that there is more to their relationship (ename144 even put screenshots about in one post). The main problem they have is that Ian has been mentored to put on a "player" personality.
- I am very opposed to help Mina cheating, that would be a total dick move, would send Mina on a path I seriously doubt would be good and might push Ian closer to the moral abyss. Cheating with Mina would only underscore what Chuck told Ian for years.
- In several talks there are hints that deep down Ian knows that Mina is special and the best thing that happened to him since meeting Edwin.
It seems I have to make a continuation post sometime in the coming days, I simply lack the drive to spent another hour writing on several arguments now.

 

[starkj]

Maybe we are here getting angry for nothing and Ian wont even mind if Mina and MC end up with each other lol.

 

[selberdreher]

Maybe we are here getting angry for nothing and Ian wont even mind if Mina and MC end up with each other lol.

I wrote in an earlier post (here):
"I even get the feeling Ian would be relieved if Edwin takes Mina out of his hands, because he knows that he cant do her justice."

This was part of a broader discussion, in which we already exchanged our positions on Ian and Mina. Looks like our views have changed little since then, which is not surprising, because Ch3Upd4 didn't bring new developments on this matter.
Anyway it doesn't hurt to repeat some viewpoints from time to time, because not everyone is familiar with posts from 7 months ago. Nonetheless i encourage to revisit those old posts, because i still think they are high quality and some members shared their opinions back then, but are not participating in the present discussion, while others are debating now, but not seven months ago.

 

[starkj]

I wrote in an earlier post (here):
"I even get the feeling Ian would be relieved if Edwin takes Mina out of his hands, because he knows that he cant do her justice."

Maybe our friendship points might have an impact on that or even what we choose when we talk to Mina in the bathtub.

 

[Ozygator]

Dropping in to remind people that Women in porn videos are in fact actors and more often than not they are acting the enjoyment that appears on screen. Filming porn is nothing like having sex and even if the actors would enjoy the sex that supposedly happen within the scene, chances are that they can't enjoy themselves because they have to stop and change with the whims of the director.

Understood, but also know that 'amateur' women are more likely to show their true reactions because they may not have compartmentalized that aspect of things and actually enjoy it when they do it. Can some fake it? Yes, non-actoresses do it all the time (ouch), but would be much more inclined to believe that unless Victoria's time in porn was signifigant she (based on the bits we have seen of unfiltered behavior) did in fact enjoy at least some part of it, or was not so jaded that it was "just another J.O.B.' to do.

 

[Turret]

Understood, but also know that 'amateur' women are more likely to show their true reactions because they may not have compartmentalized that aspect of things and actually enjoy it when they do it. Can some fake it? Yes, non-actoresses do it all the time (ouch), but would be much more inclined to believe that unless Victoria's time in porn was signifigant she (based on the bits we have seen of unfiltered behavior) did in fact enjoy at least some part of it, or was not so jaded that it was "just another J.O.B.' to do.

That is quite correct and one reason "amateur" porn is on the rise and why some big whigs of the porn industry are very annoyed with that. Most, not all, but most amateur porn actors and actresses are doing it for the fun and it can be seen in their movies, so this is becoming popular, which cuts into the profits of the "main" porn industry.
In the main porn industry there are also actors and actresses who have fun doing it, but they are a rather small minority and likely becoming rather well-known, since they do not fake it most of the time.
From the bits and pieces of Vicky´s porn career we´ve seen, we can conclude at least tentatively, that she enjoyed some shots. The snippet from Rosi´s porn shot and one of the gangbangs are rather clear on this.

It is one reason why I speculate that Victoria´s porn career was longer than some members may think, but not overly long. She enjoyed parts of it, which was a bonus and good for her, considering she had to make money.
As I wrote in another post, I speculate that Vicky was in porn for about 2-3, maybe 4 years. Long enough to build up some small nestegg for when she stopped doing porn, but not long enough to become a fully "household" name. Considering she had fun doing some porn genres, had she been longer in porn than 2-4 years, she would have become known.
She cannot have made just a couple movies, because she had to make money for herself and little Edwin (and that costs) and she had to make enough movies and become at least somewhat popular for Edwin and Kath being able to find her movies just by surfing around. Even if you are a talented bit actor/actress, it will be near impossible to find your couple movies by chance.
But in Victoria´s case a teenager Edwin stumbled on his mom´s porn shots. For this to happen, she must have been in more porn movies than just a handfull.

 

[Machete]

I also disagree that Mina broke up with Ian just because he was a "lying manwhore", I think a fair bit of it had to due with the fact that seemingly any and all cheating by Ian was done in an effort to make Mina try harder (sexually only as far as we know), I wont get into why that fits the definition of emotional abuse but I do think its fair to say if Ian was just as bad as Edwin (Only required sex at work, lying about the illegal sex club) Mina would not be wanting to dance with Edwin just to "show Ian she can play too".

I think the psychology in this game is more complex than this, and that's why i really like it. Ian is actively pushing away Mina, even leaving obvious proofs of his infidelities around her apartment. Not because he wants to keep her on the edge but because he wants her to dump him. He even asked himself how she could stay with him for whole 10 months. He knows he is no good for her and she deserves better yet he's kinda a spineless passive individual so he doesn't just leave her for greener pastures, but he give her very good reasons to be done with him.

That also why he's happy when he sees the MC (which he sees as a better person) getting close to her.

But this is where i disagreed. MC might be better then him, but he's also walking on a very similar path.

At least in my gameplay he agreed to help Rosalind and he gets sex out of it, and i personally would have tried to help Rosalind myself if i met her in real life, short of pimping her, of course. She's the only one of the 3 who actually has a problem. The other two? They dig their grave. One is just too stubborn and self assorbed to just sell a failing business and the other married a dick for money and now she's unhappy he's a dick? Fuck off!

Also i had him agree to be the lover of the blondie, at least for now.

Then he does his job at the club.

And he pursuits Hama, who, at least knows (almost) all of that and she's involved, so she can't complain much.

All this would have been behind the back of Mina. That's why i found more immersive to avoid her.

 

[Turret]

Do you have any evidence for this? Like things in game that indicate this not how you feel about it?



Why do you get to decide it would take her that long? We have no evidnce how much she was paid per shoot or that she only ever did porn (I assume you know because you know why she stopped apparently)



Do you really think Kathleen just found them "while surfing"? Edwin has admitted to this but Kathleen just happens to find out her new employees mom did porn over a decade ago? (confirmed times). It is much much much more likely that while doing her due diligence on Edwin (which includes talking to his family even if she did not do porn) she found out Victoria's past. I do think it would be much funnier if this whole Kathleen/Edwin/Victoria stuff started just because Kathleen liked Victoria's porn a decade ago and her being Edwins mom is just 100% lucky chance" .



Again where is your evidence for this or is this just how you personally feel on the subject? I have found porn videos of people I know that are 100% amateur (screen recorded while they were on webcam), I found the video 4 years after it was posted. Are you telling me that the person I know (who does not even have an onlyfans) is in more porn because I happened to find them online? Even if you want to disregard my personal experience on the matter we know for a fact that Edwin was able to find atleast 2 or 3 videos with his mom (the dates being messed up kind of confuse this) but we know it is more than 1, however he wasnt able to find the years worth of porn?


I am not replying to you because I dont think we can have any fruitful discussion on the matter I am just posting this because it is my right to reply to any post made on this thread, and if you get "pissed off" enough to go and get evidence beyond your emotions or opinions (or at least back them up) then everybody wins!

I am not replying to your "not reply" to me, just letting our cats walk over the keyboard Considering your rather sour tone (even as a non-native English speaker it is plain to see), it seems you think yourself to be one of the recipients of my sidenote. Since you think that we cannot have any fruitful discussion, your loss, I won´t tell you if you were meant or not in that sidenote, because it won´t make a difference.

"Do you have any evidence for this" seems to be your goto reply when opinions not fitting yours are on the table, even when it was stated that iit is speculation!
And that "evidence call" comes even after dozens of posts from several authors, with examples given, in various discussions. But that seems to not sate your appetite, because you can nag those of differing opinions with it. To put it bluntly, I sometimes have long days at work and composing halfway good posts in a second language can take quite a while. I simply do not have the time, muse or desire to bolster some argument posts with multiple hints and evidence every time.
Especially when I or some other poster already made that argument with examples in earlier posts! And because I know perfectly well that sometimes you just want to send a snug, little post about a topic, I do not, unlike you, expect a multi-page essay everytime!

As for finding porn on the net, your finding of some aquaintances´ porn and your following " Are you telling me that the person I know (who does not even have an onlyfans) is in more porn because I happened to find them online? ", how do you arrive at this strange idea?
First, I am not telling you something, it is simply a thing of mathematics. If someone has only 1 porn online, the chance for you to stumble over it is very small, unless you know specifics when searching (which you did, the guys were not unknown to you).
If you have a couple or more porn shots out on the net, the chances someone stumbles over it are rising fast.

We know for sure that Vicky made several porn movies and we know that she had not much more than the clothes on her back when she and Edwin were thrown out into the streets. She needed money fast and even wellpaid porn goes only so far in giving quick money. It is a educated guess to make the hypothese that Vicky was in porn between 2-4 years to gain enough money to life and build a bit of nestegg for when she would stop doing porn.
It is unlikely she was in porn longer, unless she made some single movies now and then later on, because a porn actress having fun doing it and is at least semipro will become known if she is in porn business this long or longer. So unless TD someday gives us evidence that Victoria was a major porn actress, we can estimate that Vicky´s time in porn was about 2-4 years, given our current info.
Is that evidence enough for you now?

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Maybe we are here getting angry for nothing and Ian wont even mind if Mina and MC end up with each other lol.

Isn't there a moment ingame when Edwin wonders about if Ian would even care if their relationship broke or my mind is playing tricks on me?

 

[Turret]

Isn't there a moment ingame when Edwin wonders about if Ian would even care if their relationship broke or my mind is playing tricks on me?

That depends in part how you play the bromance and how close your relationship with Mina is, but there is such a scene.

 

[Ozygator]

Had a thought or two today and thought to share.

I like the Ian and Mina discussion, I think everyone has very valid points, and I especially liked the idea that Ian was passive-aggresively trying to get her to break up with him. I think this couldbe poor actual self-confidence from him (she's too good for me) and possibly as a way to try to push her to see how she will react. We already know he was pushing her buttons to spice up we can assume was what he thought a boring sex life based on his comments way back in the club when firrst meeting him. It would not be surprising, after being heavily involved in the mind-fuck of the club for 3+ years that he treats everything as a manipulation game to see what results he can get. Is he bored? Jaded? Sadistic? Horny? Maybe yes to all, but perhaps he thinks this is normal nor, much like the old "Friends" episode where the TV was stock on porn for weeks and Chandler and Joey started treating the rest of the world like it was a porn set-up.. lol..

The main thoughts I had today related to Victoria, namely why I kep coming back to her in this story and why her characterr quite frankly makes me as a player, nervous and slightly agitated. It finally hit me, while Edwin may be the heart of the story and the pivot around while everything else turns, Victoria is the soul of the story and the contemplation of what her 'true' story may be and how it will impact this narrative is the thread that ties everything together.

Victoria and the mystery of her background, along with what Edwin knows (what movies has he seen that we have not?) about her, vs. what everyone else knows and what her experiences were and will be are the single thread that weaves the entire story together. I am sure some dispute that and say that Edwin's story is the single binding agent, but think of this; everything Edwin is or what he thinks he is, plans for the future, everything revolves around his thoughts of Victoria. Every single action he makes, every single person he interacts with, all are shaped from his experiences not just growing up but since he found those tapes.

I cannot imagine what that would have been like to find porn takes of your mom online, not only that, when your mom is arguably one of the best looking in the game at the time of making the films (girls next door for sure) and finding her videos at a time when puberty is raging and hormones out of control. What was his reaction? Was he ashamed? Aroused? Both? Was he afraid someone else would find out? How did finding that influence his relationshops and approach to sex? How did his perception of her change in that moment? Over the next day? Week? Month? Year? We know how he relates to those videos now, but what was his immediate reaction? If he was arounsed, was he later ashamed for it? Does he have lingering issues because of it?

None of this is to drive an incest related srotyline, but more to explore the psyche of how the actions of someone dear to you may have unknowingly shattered innocence and had a huge impact on another, even if they don't fully understand the consequences themselves. And not just in that initial and short term reaction, what will happen in the future, and will those circumstances strengthen, erode or completely implode and destroy the psyche of Edwin? Has everything been a lie? Will Edwin ever really know the truth of all his mom did and what she really thought about it?

I like Victoria as a characrter and while her overall 'screen time' is small it's monumental in impact and scope. I am not ashamed to say that I literally sat stunned as a player for a good 5-10 seconds when it was revealed that the woman in the initial pic you first see him watrching was his mom. A complete and utter "WTF just happened?" moment. The rest of the story loses the majority of it's weight without her and becomes "just another" corruption story, but it's that small little thing that makes me both nervous for what's to come and yet at the same time excited to learn more of her story and how it will impact/fit in to the narrative. It's a sign of good writing (or perhaps just a good twist) when an author can have someone both looking forward to, and dreading, the next tidbit revealed about a character because of what the ramifications could be...

Now speaking of tidbits, after all the disucssion the past few days, I had a thought about the scene that comes to mind for Edwin during the Rose scene.. Some have metioned they think it's a figment of imagination, coping mechanism, or legit movie. Those who state it's not reality point to Vic loking much different and no time stamp in the corner. There has been debate on how long she was in porn and what level of fame or success she had and how wel known she was (or not). With all that in mind this popped into my brain...

Most say that the scene during the Rose movie was a legit movie, or at least had the border but no time/date stamp and Vic was dressed much differently.. Well how about the idea that that was her first 'legit' porn movie with a decent studio, not just using a handi-cam, but sets, props, a real crew, equipment, etc? Perhaps that was the start of her "semi-pro" career? Hell it could (assuming August did know her or shoot her) be the first movie August shot with her as a star. The upgraded clothing and sets fit, as does her appearance being more 'refined', but she could have been 'role-playing' a MILF, basically just channeling herself as part of the role. I mean she IS a MILF, and what better way to hide in plain sight than shoot a movie role like that, but have it more of an upscale production. This would also fit in with how Edwin may have initially found her, if this was the start of her "better money" side of the porn business...

In any event, Victoria is the character I most, and least, want to know more about. It will be interesting to see where things go and honestly, depending on how her story plays out will greatly influence the overall story. Or maybe it won't and nothing much will ever be done with her; with no grand reveal, no real discussion with Edwin to know the truth, just more snippets of the past and leave us all up in the air guessing. Time will tell.

 

[McGreed]

Had a thought or two today and thought to share.

I like the Ian and Mina discussion, I think everyone has very valid points, and I especially liked the idea that Ian was passive-aggresively trying to get her to break up with him. I think this couldbe poor actual self-confidence from him (she's too good for me) and possibly as a way to try to push her to see how she will react. We already know he was pushing her buttons to spice up we can assume was what he thought a boring sex life based on his comments way back in the club when firrst meeting him. It would not be surprising, after being heavily involved in the mind-fuck of the club for 3+ years that he treats everything as a manipulation game to see what results he can get. Is he bored? Jaded? Sadistic? Horny? Maybe yes to all, but perhaps he thinks this is normal nor, much like the old "Friends" episode where the TV was stock on porn for weeks and Chandler and Joey started treating the rest of the world like it was a porn set-up.. lol..

The main thoughts I had today related to Victoria, namely why I kep coming back to her in this story and why her characterr quite frankly makes me as a player, nervous and slightly agitated. It finally hit me, while Edwin may be the heart of the story and the pivot around while everything else turns, Victoria is the soul of the story and the contemplation of what her 'true' story may be and how it will impact this narrative is the thread that ties everything together.

Victoria and the mystery of her background, along with what Edwin knows (what movies has he seen that we have not?) about her, vs. what everyone else knows and what her experiences were and will be are the single thread that weaves the entire story together. I am sure some dispute that and say that Edwin's story is the single binding agent, but think of this; everything Edwin is or what he thinks he is, plans for the future, everything revolves around his thoughts of Victoria. Every single action he makes, every single person he interacts with, all are shaped from his experiences not just growing up but since he found those tapes.

I cannot imagine what that would have been like to find porn takes of your mom online, not only that, when your mom is arguably one of the best looking in the game at the time of making the films (girls next door for sure) and finding her videos at a time when puberty is raging and hormones out of control. What was his reaction? Was he ashamed? Aroused? Both? Was he afraid someone else would find out? How did finding that influence his relationshops and approach to sex? How did his perception of her change in that moment? Over the next day? Week? Month? Year? We know how he relates to those videos now, but what was his immediate reaction? If he was arounsed, was he later ashamed for it? Does he have lingering issues because of it?

None of this is to drive an incest related srotyline, but more to explore the psyche of how the actions of someone dear to you may have unknowingly shattered innocence and had a huge impact on another, even if they don't fully understand the consequences themselves. And not just in that initial and short term reaction, what will happen in the future, and will those circumstances strengthen, erode or completely implode and destroy the psyche of Edwin? Has everything been a lie? Will Edwin ever really know the truth of all his mom did and what she really thought about it?

I like Victoria as a characrter and while her overall 'screen time' is small it's monumental in impact and scope. I am not ashamed to say that I literally sat stunned as a player for a good 5-10 seconds when it was revealed that the woman in the initial pic you first see him watrching was his mom. A complete and utter "WTF just happened?" moment. The rest of the story loses the majority of it's weight without her and becomes "just another" corruption story, but it's that small little thing that makes me both nervous for what's to come and yet at the same time excited to learn more of her story and how it will impact/fit in to the narrative. It's a sign of good writing (or perhaps just a good twist) when an author can have someone both looking forward to, and dreading, the next tidbit revealed about a character because of what the ramifications could be...

Now speaking of tidbits, after all the disucssion the past few days, I had a thought about the scene that comes to mind for Edwin during the Rose scene.. Some have metioned they think it's a figment of imagination, coping mechanism, or legit movie. Those who state it's not reality point to Vic loking much different and no time stamp in the corner. There has been debate on how long she was in porn and what level of fame or success she had and how wel known she was (or not). With all that in mind this popped into my brain...

Most say that the scene during the Rose movie was a legit movie, or at least had the border but no time/date stamp and Vic was dressed much differently.. Well how about the idea that that was her first 'legit' porn movie with a decent studio, not just using a handi-cam, but sets, props, a real crew, equipment, etc? Perhaps that was the start of her "semi-pro" career? Hell it could (assuming August did know her or shoot her) be the first movie August shot with her as a star. The upgraded clothing and sets fit, as does her appearance being more 'refined', but she could have been 'role-playing' a MILF, basically just channeling herself as part of the role. I mean she IS a MILF, and what better way to hide in plain sight than shoot a movie role like that, but have it more of an upscale production. This would also fit in with how Edwin may have initially found her, if this was the start of her "better money" side of the porn business...

In any event, Victoria is the character I most, and least, want to know more about. It will be interesting to see where things go and honestly, depending on how her story plays out will greatly influence the overall story. Or maybe it won't and nothing much will ever be done with her; with no grand reveal, no real discussion with Edwin to know the truth, just more snippets of the past and leave us all up in the air guessing. Time will tell.

Damn, what a long thoughts you have, sir
But jokes aside, it was interesting. I rarely read such long comments to the very end.
And I want to clarify as well, that all these conversations and theories about Ian, Mina and Victoria were incredibly interesting to read. That's a shame that I dont have popcorn, when someone raises those topics again

 

[Turret]

(...)Most say that the scene during the Rose movie was a legit movie, or at least had the border but no time/date stamp and Vic was dressed much differently.. Well how about the idea that that was her first 'legit' porn movie with a decent studio, not just using a handi-cam, but sets, props, a real crew, equipment, etc? Perhaps that was the start of her "semi-pro" career? Hell it could (assuming August did know her or shoot her) be the first movie August shot with her as a star. The upgraded clothing and sets fit, as does her appearance being more 'refined', but she could have been 'role-playing' a MILF, basically just channeling herself as part of the role. I mean she IS a MILF, and what better way to hide in plain sight than shoot a movie role like that, but have it more of an upscale production. This would also fit in with how Edwin may have initially found her, if this was the start of her "better money" side of the porn business...

Very good post about Victoria in general and the part above in special. That is quite similar to my thoughts about the "coping movie shot". It would not make sense for Edwin to conjure up a "non-existing porn shot" to feel better, in the situation he is in at that point only something he knew to be true could help.
And the better set and circumstances are one point for my estimation that Vicky was in porn for a couple years. I already explained my calculation, based on the stuff we know. But your point about it being her "real start" as a semipro porn actress is a good one. That she luckily for her had fun doing it too, can be read in two variants. One is the obvious, Edwin coping with his porn shot by remembering his Mom had fun doing her porn movies, so no real biggie. Or it might be the backdoor entrance for all paths, mainly the corrupting, but even a couple light ones, that Victoria might even been a greater pornstar than we knew.

 

[selberdreher]

There is so much to reply to... where should i start?
First of all i need to gather evidence and references to actually back up my lines of reasoning.
So this will take some time.

Generally in my opinion it's not a bad idea to substantiate your claims, or mark them clearly as assumption or opinion.
I understand that everyones time is limited, and that it's nearly impossible to proof every single line we write, nor does repeating the same proof over and over again brings any additional value, but in a highly controversial environment just stating "it was proven already somewhere by someone" will just don't cut it. Atleast a link to the relevant source should be in order. Afterall not everyone is familiar with discussions and post from days, weeks or even months ago.

 

[selberdreher]

we know that she had not much more than the clothes on her back when she and Edwin were thrown out into the streets.

Now, lets start with this.
This is a claim i wanted to dispute from the first day it surfaced, but i annoyingly got distracted always or deemed other subjects more important, and now it festered to a point where it is apparently "common knowledge". If you have actual proof from PaleCarnation i'd really like to see it, because i couldn't find anywhere the fact Victoria and Edwins' Father lived with the in-laws of her in their (the parents of Edwins Father) house.
If they weren't living with the in-laws, she could not been thrown out into the streets with nothing, because instead they lived of course in their own home as a little family with one child.

In case you based your claim on this scene

i need to break it to you, that this is Victorias Husbands burial scene. It's obviously on a graveyard, she wears black and is crying and comforting little Edwin (around 6 years old at that time, that's why she can still carry him). As we can read here, her in-laws just didn't want to support her and their grandchild in any way and refused contact. She was alone, but nothing more.

If this would have been the alleged booting out, it would very likely show her on the streets, perhaps even with her in-laws house in the background of the picture. And since she was married for at least a few years (it's never mentioned that Edwin was born out of wedlock, and he carries his Fathers' last name) it's absurd to say she had not much more than her clothes. Even if we couldn't see her suitcase with her most private belongings due the framing, Edwin would very likely carry his backpack with his schoolstuff and/or his necessities.

She needed money fast

You state this as a fact, based on your claim that she is homeless and without any wordly possessions:

Of course she needed money, but unless her husband didn't assign his parents as the sole beneficiaries in his testament (and why should a happily married father of a child do that?), she is entitled to at least the half of his property and assets, even without a testament, which could be of course next to nothing, granted. Although, it's also never mentioned ingame, that they were poor or suffering from crippling debts as long as Edwins' father was still alive. Or that he never signed a Risk Life Insurance for his little family as normally sole providers do. So it's more likely to assume she inherited a little something than nothing.
Which kicks out the immediate pressure and dire need of earning money fast, as in right now.

It's also reasonable to assume, that a grieving widow and mother of a son, not living unsheltered on the streets, without acute pressing and life-threatening money problems, would not immediately turn to do porn, but instead try to exhaust other reasonable alternatives, like working multiple jobs, as suggested in this thread here

Same goes for Veronica Victoria, sure she could have easily gotten a second Job, cutting down on their Living expenses and Living from paycheck to paycheck like Millions of other Single Parents do.

Which infact she did

(puh, this took hours to dig up, damn that screenshot)

We know for sure that Vicky made several porn movies

That's correct technically, because we know for sure she did three of them, any more shoots are more or less well-founded, but ultimately speculative. If you insist on screenshots with the dates again, i will deliver them at later date.

Edwin and Kath being able to find her movies just by surfing around.

Atleast Kathleen didn't find Victorias movies by chance, she was actively and thoroughly vetting Edwin and his Mother (as his only relative), and the business of vetting is literally to dig up stuff that may be interesting, insulting, compromising or of any other matter of special importance. With Victorias real first name revealed in her casting video, the use of databases like theNude, IndeXXX, Boobpedia (to name just a few, there are more), porn forums like Forumophilia, where 'fans' publish real names and mailing adresses, reverse ImageSearch and NameThatPornstar you would be surprised how easy even a layman can dig up 'obscure' models from 15 years ago, who did porn just once, let alone a dedicated investigator.
And all this leaves completely aside the possibility that Chuck as well as August in fact could have known her rather... intimately.

Even if you are a talented bit actor/actress, it will be near impossible to find your couple movies by chance.

Generally spoken, yes. However the more specific the niche is the greater is the chance to stumble upon stuff. simpgor already provided anecdotal evidence, and i could personally add another (about two former friends of mine). However, we know anecdotal evidence is not real evidence, so lets leave that aside. So, yes, very, very unlikely but not impossible. And as stated above, as soon as you start to actively search there is a good chance indeed that you dig something up if anything is there.

But in Victoria´s case a teenager Edwin stumbled on his mom´s porn shots. For this to happen, she must have been in more porn movies than just a handfull.

Two things to mention here.
First as shown above, a single movie can be enough to be found. The more specific Edwins porn interests were, the higher the likelihood. MyEdwin for instance has the [Voyeur] trait, he shot, filmed and sold nudes (and perhaps more, if he were lucky) of neighborhood moms. So perhaps he looked for "Shameless Neighborhood Moms of Moorehead Hills".
But again, even without this trait, the relatively specific porn search of "Amateur MILF interracial rimming" narrows millions of porn videos down to some few hundreds, scroll a bit around and voila, there you have it.
Or try "Amateur MILF gangbang Morehead Hills" or "Amateur MILF gangbang Maryland" or "Brunette amateur MILF huge tits" or or or or. We don't know what rocked Edwins boat at that time. It's not impossible, and not even very, very unlikely.

However the more important thing is: if you want to make a film about "Aliens attacking Planet Earth", you don't care about the probability of this event in reality, it just happens. And if our Devs want to create a AVN with the central premise of "a boy whose mother did porn and he found out", it just happened.

that she enjoyed some shots. The snippet from Rosi´s porn shot and one of the gangbangs are rather clear on this.

The authenticity of the scene shown in Rosies exhibition is still contested. Neither side can provide a proof of their claim yet.
I would be very interested which one of the gangbangs showed rather clearly that she enjoyed it.
I don't dispute that she may have enjoyed it.

 

[Turret]

Now, lets start with this.
This is a claim i wanted to dispute from the first day it surfaced, but i annoyingly got distracted always or deemed other subjects more important, and now it festered to a point where it is apparently "common knowledge". If you have actual proof from PaleCarnation i'd really like to see it, because i couldn't find anywhere the fact Victoria and Edwins' Father lived with the in-laws of her in their (the parents of Edwins Father) house.
If they weren't living with the in-laws, she could not been thrown out into the streets with nothing, because instead they lived of course in their own home as a little family with one child.

In case you based your claim on this scene
View attachment 2001734
i need to break it to you, that this is Victorias Husbands burial scene. It's obviously on a graveyard, she wears black and is crying and comforting little Edwin (around 6 years old at that time, that's why she can still carry him). As we can read here, her in-laws just didn't want to support her and their grandchild in any way and refused contact. She was alone, but nothing more.

If this would have been the alleged booting out, it would very likely show her on the streets, perhaps even with her in-laws house in the background of the picture. And since she was married for at least a few years (it's never mentioned that Edwin was born out of wedlock, and he carries his Fathers' last name) it's absurd to say she had not much more than her clothes. Even if we couldn't see her suitcase with her most private belongings due the framing, Edwin would very likely carry his backpack with his schoolstuff and/or his necessities.

You state this as a fact, based on your claim that she is homeless and without any wordly possessions:

Of course she needed money, but unless her husband didn't assign his parents as the sole beneficiaries in his testament (and why should a happily married father of a child do that?), she is entitled to at least the half of his property and assets, even without a testament, which could be of course next to nothing, granted. Although, it's also never mentioned ingame, that they were poor or suffering from crippling debts as long as Edwins' father was still alive. Or that he never signed a Risk Life Insurance for his little family as normally sole providers do. So it's more likely to assume she inherited a little something than nothing.
Which kicks out the immediate pressure and dire need of earning money fast, as in right now.

It's also reasonable to assume, that a grieving widow and mother of a son, not living unsheltered on the streets, without acute pressing and life-threatening money problems, would not immediately turn to do porn, but instead try to exhaust other reasonable alternatives, like working multiple jobs, as suggested in this thread here

Which infact she did
View attachment 2001856
(puh, this took hours to dig up, damn that screenshot)


That's correct technically, because we know for sure she did three of them, any more shoots are more or less well-founded, but ultimately speculative. If you insist on screenshots with the dates again, i will deliver them at later date.

Atleast Kathleen didn't find Victorias movies by chance, she was actively and thoroughly vetting Edwin and his Mother (as his only relative), and the business of vetting is literally to dig up stuff that may be interesting, insulting, compromising or of any other matter of special importance. With Victorias real first name revealed in her casting video, the use of databases like theNude, IndeXXX, Boobpedia (to name just a few, there are more), porn forums like Forumophilia, where 'fans' publish real names and mailing adresses, reverse ImageSearch and NameThatPornstar you would be surprised how easy even a layman can dig up 'obscure' models from 15 years ago, who did porn just once, let alone a dedicated investigator.
And all this leaves completely aside the possibility that Chuck as well as August in fact could have known her rather... intimately.

Generally spoken, yes. However the more specific the niche is the greater is the chance to stumble upon stuff. simpgor already provided anecdotal evidence, and i could personally add another (about two former friends of mine). However, we know anecdotal evidence is not real evidence, so lets leave that aside. So, yes, very, very unlikely but not impossible. And as stated above, as soon as you start to actively search there is a good chance indeed that you dig something up if anything is there.

Two things to mention here.
First as shown above, a single movie can be enough to be found. The more specific Edwins porn interests were, the higher the likelihood. MyEdwin for instance has the [Voyeur] trait, he shot, filmed and sold nudes (and perhaps more, if he were lucky) of neighborhood moms. So perhaps he looked for "Shameless Neighborhood Moms of Moorehead Hills".
But again, even without this trait, the relatively specific porn search of "Amateur MILF interracial rimming" narrows millions of porn videos down to some few hundreds, scroll a bit around and voila, there you have it.
Or try "Amateur MILF gangbang Morehead Hills" or "Amateur MILF gangbang Maryland" or "Brunette amateur MILF huge tits" or or or or. We don't know what rocked Edwins boat at that time. It's not impossible, and not even very, very unlikely.

However the more important thing is: if you want to make a film about "Aliens attacking Planet Earth", you don't care about the probability of this event in reality, it just happens. And if our Devs want to create a AVN with the central premise of "a boy whose mother did porn and he found out", it just happened.

The authenticity of the scene shown in Rosies exhibition is still contested. Neither side can provide a proof of their claim yet.
I would be very interested which one of the gangbangs showed rather clearly that she enjoyed it.
I don't dispute that she may have enjoyed it.

Hi selberdreher !
Long post, some very nice points by you! Now a few notes of mine.

During the talk with Hana in the "Magenta room" Edwin states that "Yeah, I told you she endured a lot for my sake. After my father died, it was just the two of us. My mother didn´t have anyone." and during a talk with Rosi in the park he mentions that his Dad´s family "washed their hands clean of us". They were clearly on their own. And during one of the saturday lunches with the Carnations Edwin mentions that his Mom did a lot to make sure that Edwin´s life stayed stable and did not really change.

Hate to break it to you, but unless Edwin lived in West-Baltimore, Berea, Cherry Hill or some other dives(which I truly doubt), a single Mom with a small kid and no other family will be VERY hard pressed to cough up the money needed to keep the standard they had as a full family. The money for school alone would have been hell. Ian´s parents are clearly loaded, no way that their son went onto a state school. For them to meet, Edwin must have been on one of the private schools and that means school fees. Fees in numbers which make our European eyes water.
Sorry, while I might have misinterpreted the falling out with Edwin´s Dad´s family quite harsher than it was, it does not impact my estimation how extremly serious their money situation after his Dad´s death was.

As for the gangbang: When Edwin and Rosi have their romp in her kitchen, she enjoying herself very much, he has a flashback of a gangbang Vicky made.

 

[ename144]

Victoria and the mystery of her background, along with what Edwin knows (what movies has he seen that we have not?) about her, vs. what everyone else knows and what her experiences were and will be are the single thread that weaves the entire story together. I am sure some dispute that and say that Edwin's story is the single binding agent, but think of this; everything Edwin is or what he thinks he is, plans for the future, everything revolves around his thoughts of Victoria. Every single action he makes, every single person he interacts with, all are shaped from his experiences not just growing up but since he found those tapes.

People keep making very interesting, detailed posts and unfortunately I'm just too busy right now to address all of them. But I did want to say something about this bit, because I think it's significant. IMHO, there isn't a mystery about Victoria. The MC isn't on a quest to learn the truth about his mom's porn career, and Kathleen never hints about some dark, secret layers to Victoria's porn career. The whole thing is presented very matter-of-factly: for a brief time after his father died, the MC's mom made a living in porn. The exact details of that aren't presented as important.

I think reading more into it than that is looking for a twist that may not be there. Yes, given the setup it's possible we'll get some revelation about her working with August or Chuck, but I think it's a lot more likely that we'll never delve too deeply into the details because they don't matter. The important things are how the MC feels about the basic premise of his mom doing porn to stay afloat, and how his relationship with his mother changes once she realizes he knows her secret.

 

[KKpotato]

I came here to see some fun discussion... what is all this Einstein-level shit?