selberdreher

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Dec 29, 2017
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There is so much to reply to... where should i start?
First of all i need to gather evidence and references to actually back up my lines of reasoning.
So this will take some time.

Generally in my opinion it's not a bad idea to substantiate your claims, or mark them clearly as assumption or opinion.
I understand that everyones time is limited, and that it's nearly impossible to proof every single line we write, nor does repeating the same proof over and over again brings any additional value, but in a highly controversial environment just stating "it was proven already somewhere by someone" will just don't cut it. Atleast a link to the relevant source should be in order. Afterall not everyone is familiar with discussions and post from days, weeks or even months ago.
 
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selberdreher

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Dec 29, 2017
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we know that she had not much more than the clothes on her back when she and Edwin were thrown out into the streets.
Now, lets start with this.
This is a claim i wanted to dispute from the first day it surfaced, but i annoyingly got distracted always or deemed other subjects more important, and now it festered to a point where it is apparently "common knowledge". If you have actual proof from PaleCarnation i'd really like to see it, because i couldn't find anywhere the fact Victoria and Edwins' Father lived with the in-laws of her in their (the parents of Edwins Father) house.
If they weren't living with the in-laws, she could not been thrown out into the streets with nothing, because instead they lived of course in their own home as a little family with one child.

In case you based your claim on this scene
screenshot0010.png
i need to break it to you, that this is Victorias Husbands burial scene. It's obviously on a graveyard, she wears black and is crying and comforting little Edwin (around 6 years old at that time, that's why she can still carry him). As we can read here, her in-laws just didn't want to support her and their grandchild in any way and refused contact. She was alone, but nothing more.

If this would have been the alleged booting out, it would very likely show her on the streets, perhaps even with her in-laws house in the background of the picture. And since she was married for at least a few years (it's never mentioned that Edwin was born out of wedlock, and he carries his Fathers' last name) it's absurd to say she had not much more than her clothes. Even if we couldn't see her suitcase with her most private belongings due the framing, Edwin would very likely carry his backpack with his schoolstuff and/or his necessities.
She needed money fast
You state this as a fact, based on your claim that she is homeless and without any wordly possessions:

Of course she needed money, but unless her husband didn't assign his parents as the sole beneficiaries in his testament (and why should a happily married father of a child do that?), she is entitled to at least the half of his property and assets, even without a testament, which could be of course next to nothing, granted. Although, it's also never mentioned ingame, that they were poor or suffering from crippling debts as long as Edwins' father was still alive. Or that he never signed a Risk Life Insurance for his little family as normally sole providers do. So it's more likely to assume she inherited a little something than nothing.
Which kicks out the immediate pressure and dire need of earning money fast, as in right now.

It's also reasonable to assume, that a grieving widow and mother of a son, not living unsheltered on the streets, without acute pressing and life-threatening money problems, would not immediately turn to do porn, but instead try to exhaust other reasonable alternatives, like working multiple jobs, as suggested in this thread here
Same goes for Veronica Victoria, sure she could have easily gotten a second Job, cutting down on their Living expenses and Living from paycheck to paycheck like Millions of other Single Parents do.
Which infact she did
screenshot0011.png
(puh, this took hours to dig up, damn that screenshot)

We know for sure that Vicky made several porn movies
That's correct technically, because we know for sure she did three of them, any more shoots are more or less well-founded, but ultimately speculative. If you insist on screenshots with the dates again, i will deliver them at later date.
Edwin and Kath being able to find her movies just by surfing around.
Atleast Kathleen didn't find Victorias movies by chance, she was actively and thoroughly vetting Edwin and his Mother (as his only relative), and the business of vetting is literally to dig up stuff that may be interesting, insulting, compromising or of any other matter of special importance. With Victorias real first name revealed in her casting video, the use of databases like theNude, IndeXXX, Boobpedia (to name just a few, there are more), porn forums like Forumophilia, where 'fans' publish real names and mailing adresses, reverse ImageSearch and NameThatPornstar you would be surprised how easy even a layman can dig up 'obscure' models from 15 years ago, who did porn just once, let alone a dedicated investigator.
And all this leaves completely aside the possibility that Chuck as well as August in fact could have known her rather... intimately.
Even if you are a talented bit actor/actress, it will be near impossible to find your couple movies by chance.
Generally spoken, yes. However the more specific the niche is the greater is the chance to stumble upon stuff. simpgor already provided anecdotal evidence, and i could personally add another (about two former friends of mine). However, we know anecdotal evidence is not real evidence, so lets leave that aside. So, yes, very, very unlikely but not impossible. And as stated above, as soon as you start to actively search there is a good chance indeed that you dig something up if anything is there.
But in Victoria´s case a teenager Edwin stumbled on his mom´s porn shots. For this to happen, she must have been in more porn movies than just a handfull.
Two things to mention here.
First as shown above, a single movie can be enough to be found. The more specific Edwins porn interests were, the higher the likelihood. MyEdwin for instance has the [Voyeur] trait, he shot, filmed and sold nudes (and perhaps more, if he were lucky) of neighborhood moms. So perhaps he looked for "Shameless Neighborhood Moms of Moorehead Hills".
But again, even without this trait, the relatively specific porn search of "Amateur MILF interracial rimming" narrows millions of porn videos down to some few hundreds, scroll a bit around and voila, there you have it.
Or try "Amateur MILF gangbang Morehead Hills" or "Amateur MILF gangbang Maryland" or "Brunette amateur MILF huge tits" or or or or. We don't know what rocked Edwins boat at that time. It's not impossible, and not even very, very unlikely.

However the more important thing is: if you want to make a film about "Aliens attacking Planet Earth", you don't care about the probability of this event in reality, it just happens. And if our Devs want to create a AVN with the central premise of "a boy whose mother did porn and he found out", it just happened.
that she enjoyed some shots. The snippet from Rosi´s porn shot and one of the gangbangs are rather clear on this.
The authenticity of the scene shown in Rosies exhibition is still contested. Neither side can provide a proof of their claim yet.
I would be very interested which one of the gangbangs showed rather clearly that she enjoyed it.
I don't dispute that she may have enjoyed it.
 
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Turret

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Jun 23, 2017
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Now, lets start with this.
This is a claim i wanted to dispute from the first day it surfaced, but i annoyingly got distracted always or deemed other subjects more important, and now it festered to a point where it is apparently "common knowledge". If you have actual proof from PaleCarnation i'd really like to see it, because i couldn't find anywhere the fact Victoria and Edwins' Father lived with the in-laws of her in their (the parents of Edwins Father) house.
If they weren't living with the in-laws, she could not been thrown out into the streets with nothing, because instead they lived of course in their own home as a little family with one child.

In case you based your claim on this scene
View attachment 2001734
i need to break it to you, that this is Victorias Husbands burial scene. It's obviously on a graveyard, she wears black and is crying and comforting little Edwin (around 6 years old at that time, that's why she can still carry him). As we can read here, her in-laws just didn't want to support her and their grandchild in any way and refused contact. She was alone, but nothing more.

If this would have been the alleged booting out, it would very likely show her on the streets, perhaps even with her in-laws house in the background of the picture. And since she was married for at least a few years (it's never mentioned that Edwin was born out of wedlock, and he carries his Fathers' last name) it's absurd to say she had not much more than her clothes. Even if we couldn't see her suitcase with her most private belongings due the framing, Edwin would very likely carry his backpack with his schoolstuff and/or his necessities.

You state this as a fact, based on your claim that she is homeless and without any wordly possessions:

Of course she needed money, but unless her husband didn't assign his parents as the sole beneficiaries in his testament (and why should a happily married father of a child do that?), she is entitled to at least the half of his property and assets, even without a testament, which could be of course next to nothing, granted. Although, it's also never mentioned ingame, that they were poor or suffering from crippling debts as long as Edwins' father was still alive. Or that he never signed a Risk Life Insurance for his little family as normally sole providers do. So it's more likely to assume she inherited a little something than nothing.
Which kicks out the immediate pressure and dire need of earning money fast, as in right now.

It's also reasonable to assume, that a grieving widow and mother of a son, not living unsheltered on the streets, without acute pressing and life-threatening money problems, would not immediately turn to do porn, but instead try to exhaust other reasonable alternatives, like working multiple jobs, as suggested in this thread here

Which infact she did
View attachment 2001856
(puh, this took hours to dig up, damn that screenshot)


That's correct technically, because we know for sure she did three of them, any more shoots are more or less well-founded, but ultimately speculative. If you insist on screenshots with the dates again, i will deliver them at later date.

Atleast Kathleen didn't find Victorias movies by chance, she was actively and thoroughly vetting Edwin and his Mother (as his only relative), and the business of vetting is literally to dig up stuff that may be interesting, insulting, compromising or of any other matter of special importance. With Victorias real first name revealed in her casting video, the use of databases like theNude, IndeXXX, Boobpedia (to name just a few, there are more), porn forums like Forumophilia, where 'fans' publish real names and mailing adresses, reverse ImageSearch and NameThatPornstar you would be surprised how easy even a layman can dig up 'obscure' models from 15 years ago, who did porn just once, let alone a dedicated investigator.
And all this leaves completely aside the possibility that Chuck as well as August in fact could have known her rather... intimately.

Generally spoken, yes. However the more specific the niche is the greater is the chance to stumble upon stuff. simpgor already provided anecdotal evidence, and i could personally add another (about two former friends of mine). However, we know anecdotal evidence is not real evidence, so lets leave that aside. So, yes, very, very unlikely but not impossible. And as stated above, as soon as you start to actively search there is a good chance indeed that you dig something up if anything is there.

Two things to mention here.
First as shown above, a single movie can be enough to be found. The more specific Edwins porn interests were, the higher the likelihood. MyEdwin for instance has the [Voyeur] trait, he shot, filmed and sold nudes (and perhaps more, if he were lucky) of neighborhood moms. So perhaps he looked for "Shameless Neighborhood Moms of Moorehead Hills".
But again, even without this trait, the relatively specific porn search of "Amateur MILF interracial rimming" narrows millions of porn videos down to some few hundreds, scroll a bit around and voila, there you have it.
Or try "Amateur MILF gangbang Morehead Hills" or "Amateur MILF gangbang Maryland" or "Brunette amateur MILF huge tits" or or or or. We don't know what rocked Edwins boat at that time. It's not impossible, and not even very, very unlikely.

However the more important thing is: if you want to make a film about "Aliens attacking Planet Earth", you don't care about the probability of this event in reality, it just happens. And if our Devs want to create a AVN with the central premise of "a boy whose mother did porn and he found out", it just happened.

The authenticity of the scene shown in Rosies exhibition is still contested. Neither side can provide a proof of their claim yet.
I would be very interested which one of the gangbangs showed rather clearly that she enjoyed it.
I don't dispute that she may have enjoyed it.
Hi selberdreher !
Long post, some very nice points by you! Now a few notes of mine.

During the talk with Hana in the "Magenta room" Edwin states that "Yeah, I told you she endured a lot for my sake. After my father died, it was just the two of us. My mother didn´t have anyone." and during a talk with Rosi in the park he mentions that his Dad´s family "washed their hands clean of us". They were clearly on their own. And during one of the saturday lunches with the Carnations Edwin mentions that his Mom did a lot to make sure that Edwin´s life stayed stable and did not really change.

Hate to break it to you, but unless Edwin lived in West-Baltimore, Berea, Cherry Hill or some other dives(which I truly doubt), a single Mom with a small kid and no other family will be VERY hard pressed to cough up the money needed to keep the standard they had as a full family. The money for school alone would have been hell. Ian´s parents are clearly loaded, no way that their son went onto a state school. For them to meet, Edwin must have been on one of the private schools and that means school fees. Fees in numbers which make our European eyes water.
Sorry, while I might have misinterpreted the falling out with Edwin´s Dad´s family quite harsher than it was, it does not impact my estimation how extremly serious their money situation after his Dad´s death was.

As for the gangbang: When Edwin and Rosi have their romp in her kitchen, she enjoying herself very much, he has a flashback of a gangbang Vicky made.
 
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ename144

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Victoria and the mystery of her background, along with what Edwin knows (what movies has he seen that we have not?) about her, vs. what everyone else knows and what her experiences were and will be are the single thread that weaves the entire story together. I am sure some dispute that and say that Edwin's story is the single binding agent, but think of this; everything Edwin is or what he thinks he is, plans for the future, everything revolves around his thoughts of Victoria. Every single action he makes, every single person he interacts with, all are shaped from his experiences not just growing up but since he found those tapes.
People keep making very interesting, detailed posts and unfortunately I'm just too busy right now to address all of them. But I did want to say something about this bit, because I think it's significant. IMHO, there isn't a mystery about Victoria. The MC isn't on a quest to learn the truth about his mom's porn career, and Kathleen never hints about some dark, secret layers to Victoria's porn career. The whole thing is presented very matter-of-factly: for a brief time after his father died, the MC's mom made a living in porn. The exact details of that aren't presented as important.

I think reading more into it than that is looking for a twist that may not be there. Yes, given the setup it's possible we'll get some revelation about her working with August or Chuck, but I think it's a lot more likely that we'll never delve too deeply into the details because they don't matter. The important things are how the MC feels about the basic premise of his mom doing porn to stay afloat, and how his relationship with his mother changes once she realizes he knows her secret.
 

selberdreher

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Ian´s parents are clearly loaded, no way that their son went onto a state school.
One of Killians bullies at school lives in a trailer park as far as i a can remember. I don't think a trailer park kid would go to an expensive school, bear with me, i'll try to get a screenshot, but i am short on time right now.
Also probably an interesting fact, which i wanted to show you as i was searching for hours for my second screenshot above:
Apparently Edwin's Father graduated from law school, and got an expensive looking golden wrist watch as a graduation gift. Edwin thinks when Victoria gives the watch to him "The ingraving alone must have cost a fortune" or something like that. Again i'll add some thumbnails, just not right now, but the scene should be a quick find, it's when Vicky and Hana meet for the second time.
Allegedly, as Victoia says, it was 'lost' in some boxes for all those years. This hints to having a home with moving boxes and stuff.
So Victorias husband graduated from law school, married at one point a - as Edwins paternal grandparents, may have seen it - a runaway tramp (Vicky left her parents home in her teens), which he got pregnant. Or even - as the grandparents may have seen it -, Vicky tricked their promising son into a pregnancy, and adding insult to injury, he worked for a meager non-profit organization instead of making full use of his law degree and start a career as lawyer in a big office. This all points to me to upper middle class parents, who were disappointed in their sons life choices and pinned all the blame on Vicky, that's why they refused contact after he died.
a single Mom with a small kid and no other family will be VERY hard pressed to cough up the money needed to keep the standard they had as a full family.
it does not impact my estimation how extremly serious their money situation after his Dad´s death was.
Even if Edwin didn't go to a private school, this is true, any family loosing one source of income, will get into trouble to keep their former living standard. I am with you on the fact, that Victoria was financially struggling, alot. That's why she worked her ass off (literally and metaphorically) and i am also, pretty sure that they had to downsize from perhaps living in a small house as family to living in a flat after he died. I just don't think she was in a direly desperate situation right from the start.

As for the gangbang: When Edwin and Rosi have their romp in her kitchen, she enjoying herself very much, he has a flashback of a gangbang Vicky made.
I have to admit i am inclined to believe, that Victoria 'enjoyed' (that's the wrong word, but i just can't put my finger on the right one, at the moment) her shoots.
I expected you will give me this example, and although i don't think you're wrong with this one, it's just too ambiguous. Victoria just uttering this words in this situation don't really convince me, that she isn't faking it.
Could be true either way. I think there are more hints than this specific one, and if we put them together, the picture is still misty, but a little clearer. Expect a post about this issue later. But be assured that i don't right out reject your notion.

Other than that, i loved that you gave me this (no irony or sarcasm here!)
Hate to break it to you, but unless Edwin lived in West-Baltimore, Berea, Cherry Hill or some other dives
I assume that's the not-so well put together parts of the town? Always nice to get new info! My honest thanks.
Although Morehead Hills is not Baltimore, i think Edwins first flat we see at the start of the game could be located there.
I am really glad we are back to a better founded discussion.

to conclude this post, i will try to deliver the trailer park bully scene and the wrist watch situation, i am on the issue about Victorias [ - still missing the right word - ] in her videos. Probably tonight.

Cheers, Turret, being salty from time to time shows that we care, no offense taken on my side, i hope on yours neither?!
 
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selberdreher

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People keep making very interesting, detailed posts and unfortunately I'm just too busy right now to address all of them. But I did want to say something about this bit, because I think it's significant. IMHO, there isn't a mystery about Victoria. The MC isn't on a quest to learn the truth about his mom's porn career, and Kathleen never hints about some dark, secret layers to Victoria's porn career. The whole thing is presented very matter-of-factly: for a brief time after his father died, the MC's mom made a living in porn. The exact details of that aren't presented as important.

I think reading more into it than that is looking for a twist that may not be there. Yes, given the setup it's possible we'll get some revelation about her working with August or Chuck, but I think it's a lot more likely that we'll never delve too deeply into the details because they don't matter. The important things are how the MC feels about the basic premise of his mom doing porn to stay afloat, and how his relationship with his mother changes once she realizes he knows her secret.
i wished we could like and set a thinking face under those posts, because that's how i often feel. In this case a thinking face has to do it, as a little ellbowing, since you are so generous with yours. Everytime you do i'll take them serious, thinking "damn, you ename144 still skeptical, really? I have to work harder then to finally convince you."

You and Turret and of course a handfull others constantly challenge me to hone my posts.
Seriously, i want to thank all of you, you guys (and girls, if there are some) force me on a regular basis to revisit my favourite AVN to delve even deeper into the mysteries of the story. Honestly i discovered alot, which was overlooked by me on my first few runs.
I very much appreciate that.

You, my fellow pervs - this goes out to everyone, who adds valuable insights to this thread -, provide me with the energy and motivation to do that.
Thank you, earnestly.

PS: lol, sorry i didn't reply to the actual content of your post.
 
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Ozygator

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1) Kathleen says "how that must have colored your view of women" and Edwin replies that it did not change how he views women whether you want to take that at face value or think he was lying to Kathleen and us the player (since there is no hint that is a lie). I don't think that it would have much influence on his "depravity" or fetishes but i will go (too) in depth on that later on....



2) Has anybody looked to see exactly how similar the pantyhose or whatever are to the ones that we see house girls wearing? I seem to remember the color of them being pretty close. If they are the same and that is more than just a repeated texture that could have big implications whether she was involved the club or something similar should the scene be real, or if it's not a real scene because because of something we learn in the future them being the same could be a hint........ or it could just mean August/Chuck/Whoever shot the movie all buy the same brand of pantyhouse



3.
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4. The conclusion I draw from this is that if everything is true and consistent is that there is an extremely high likelihood that Victoria got involved with something beyond porn very quickly and it was likely the main thing that supported them through his childhood. She would have to be making dozens and dozens of videos over the almost decade that Edwin was growing up all while not arousing a hint of suspicion until Edwin finally found 1-3 (which she made within a year) online. The amount of videos she would have to do with different "companies" along with the location of Maryland and the years she would have to be doing it rules out Amateur Porn as what funded her life. I think semi professional or professional porn (working under a stage name) is ruled out as well because she would still have to many videos over the years and it would be much easier for Edwin to find not just 2 or 3 but 10's of videos she would have to make keep a steady income/amount of money in the bank, we also have to consider the fact that as Edwin gets older it gets harder for her to hide and it costs more money to raise him which would mean an increase in videos not a decrease.

5. Unfun fact if she was somehow able to provide for Edwin with the (probably bad pay) at the rate we have seen the videos be shot she would have made: 50+ videos minimum :eek:
I took the liberty of numbering your points/parragraphs so as to not have to snip them all to bits. :)

1. Edwin replies with what he believes to be true. Is that the real truth? Who knows. He could have a *very* colored/biased view of women based on rationalizing that his mom is not a whore/slut/insert degrading societial term here.. Often those with the development, behavior or psychological issues are the last people to recognize that they have them, so asking someone "are you crazy?" and them not realizing they are, doesn't not refute the fact they may well be. Fetishes can develop without outside input, but they can get the initial kernal for the beginning based on our circunstances and environment.

2. I already had a similar thought, was Vic involved with the club or maybe a pre-curser of the club/less 'fancy' bordello, and was mentioned in thread that the CC is too new for that to have occured. I agree with the CC (but could be a shocker if revealed she was involved/knew of the club) timeline but nothing so far I hav seen in the game refutes that Vic could have been part of a different set-up that had a similar function, just maybe not catering to the upscale clientele.

3. One major thing to point out here.. It's a fallacy to think that the "only" films done were the three we have seen. Some may have thought she was only in 1, until the second appeared, so on and so forth. We don't know the trrue extent of her 'career', only that we have seen at least 3, possibly 4, films or scenes she was in. Someone *could* keep that as a hard stance, the "it only occured if I saw it happen" mentality, but I would caution it may be like building a sandcastle below high-tide mark as the beach; sooner or laterr it will all erode away due to no foundation...

Be that as it may, your 5-9 year potential time span also meshes with Turret's expanded time frame thoughts, and I would agree. However... We have no idea when these films may have stopped either. Just because Edwin found them when he was 16 (hypothetical age) doesn't mean more could not have been made after that, we simply don't know. What we could realistically assume is that he was likely in his mid teen years since it would be expected to have been done with a PC and if they struggled as much as implied then I'd have a hard time believeing that extra cash was spent to get him a internet capable PC when he was under 12-14 range, but who knows really?

Regarding Edwin's "dark tendencies", how do we know those weren't due to him trying to deal with discovering the truth? As noted in my earlier post, having a young boy finding porn from his mom would rattle *anyone* and unless you have been in that situation none of us know how we would react. Especially if it was young enough that the "mom is an angel" mentality was still the major impression, and then BOOM it's all crashing down. Here's a kid who is obviously horny, otherwise why lok for porn, he finds some exciting stuff, see's a hot chick and realizes it's his mom!?!? It would be hard to turn off those hormones, I can guarentee, and him trying to deal with it could have easily led to any/all of the behaviors as either lashing out, or a pre-curser to corruption in himself (like the selling nude pics from voyeur activites)

Regarding Victoria being absent, again, we don't know. Just because it has not bewen mentioned does not mean that she didn't have "girls night out" or "overnight trip with friends", etc, etc. We also can assume, back-tracking through the timeline that Edwin was in high school 4(ish) years prior, and that's when he also knew Chuck. So we can assume that the Edwin/Chuck interactions were approx 4-8 years prior to current time. That's within the earliest stages of the CC being open, and (unknown when Chuck's wife passed away) we can assume he was potentiall involved in something perverted and perhaps encounted Vic that way too, as far back as 7-8 years ago. If my math is right that's perhaps half of the 15 year gap between origional video we have seen and curent time. Who's to say that Vic and Chuck meeting didn't get her out of the business because he had more info, and this also (weakly) links to my earlier thought that Vic's comments/distruct of Chuck was founded on something else. If she met him on a porn shoot, or he made mention to herr that he knew of her films, it adds an entire new layer on the storry for motivations and things.

One final thought for this section... For those who had Edwin with the pyro tendencies trait.. I can't recall if he mentioned his exact age, but look at Vic's pic there when she was crying when he told her, and she was worried about the money to pay for the burnt building. Does her characterr at that point in time look like her origional porn videos or not? I thought they did, and it stood out to me, what if this act of Edwin's was one of those that got her into the industrry to make quick cash for repayment? I know all Edwins wouldn't have this storry, but in this case if he did the math in his head, how do we know he didn't also connect those dots and feel even more guilt and remorse on what his actions caused his mother to "have to do"?

4. Like to request something here that you've vaguely mentioned several times... The idea of "Victoria got involved into something *more* than porn", what exactly are you proposing? What did she get involved with? What thoughts do you have around that specific idea, etc? TYossing out "someone, somewher, did something!" and not offering specifics, assumptions, wild-ass guesses (WAG's) pretty much squashes people discussing the thought, so thrrow it out here and let's all hear it.. :)

I agre that she'd either 1) have to have made a ton og amateur vids to get the nest egg others have implied she might have worked for, 2) maybe she stayed amateur and only used the occasional film to bolster the current 'real job' she had. Edwin mentions she alwasy worked, but how much of that 'work' was in adult industry but she told him something else. or even dressed in props to get into her role? we simply don't know. 3) Maybe she went semi-pro until Edwin hit high school and she was scared off or realized, through others recognizing her (i.e. Chuck) that she needed to stop, 4) perhaps as I mentioned in an earlier post, she went into the escort business. This would fit the "more than adult videos" concept you've mentioned, and also would have potentially made her a LOT more cash.

5. Well.. I personally hope not, but we'll see. Or maybe we won't, and all this talk is for nothing, and the game dev's never really get into her history, and all we ever see are snippits of film as Edwin needs to re-evaluate something in his personal philisophy.

This last item is why I think her character is the hidden gem in the story, where we're dying to know more, but (speaking forr myself only) am dreading what could come out.. What if she was a Carnation, or the earlierr version of it, etc. Side-note.. Unrelated, but do the previous CXarnation loserrs really get nothing, or does anyone think they get at least part of what they were asking for, but sign on as a house whore (HW) for X months/years to work off their debt? There are multiple mentions of the HW's "being on the hook" so wondered if anyone caught that...
 

Ozygator

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People keep making very interesting, detailed posts and unfortunately I'm just too busy right now to address all of them. But I did want to say something about this bit, because I think it's significant. IMHO, there isn't a mystery about Victoria. The MC isn't on a quest to learn the truth about his mom's porn career, and Kathleen never hints about some dark, secret layers to Victoria's porn career. The whole thing is presented very matter-of-factly: for a brief time after his father died, the MC's mom made a living in porn. The exact details of that aren't presented as important.

I think reading more into it than that is looking for a twist that may not be there. Yes, given the setup it's possible we'll get some revelation about her working with August or Chuck, but I think it's a lot more likely that we'll never delve too deeply into the details because they don't matter. The important things are how the MC feels about the basic premise of his mom doing porn to stay afloat, and how his relationship with his mother changes once she realizes he knows her secret.
Good points!

If more of her backgrond aren't present then that will be that, we will likely never know, as you mention. I do hope that when/if a discussion does occur with Edwin and Vic and she learns he knows, it does have some impact on the story. Otherwise it's a seriously wasted premise that could make an ok story exceptional.

I say this bit because without the mystery of Victoria, what her trrue past and experiences were, how much Edwin saw of her, that all plays a huge role in his perceptions that the story is trying to break down. Without Victoria then PC becaomes a rather run-of-the-mill corruption game, and frankly middle-of-the road otherwise.

I get the premise of the game is supposed to be the 'Carnations' but that's not really true, the story is about Edwin and how he relates to them and everyone else. Victoria, and his history outside the family, i.e. her porn career and how her doing that influended him once he found out, is the heart of Edwin's psyche and the true story. The rest is fluff and not super exciting IMHO.
 

SanaeS

Active Member
Jun 22, 2018
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What do you all think about a possible Carnations strike right before one of the next exhibitions?

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Assuming Vero, Rosa and Feli actually agree with this and tell Kath they will not perform at the last minute she would be forced to give them something or the club would take a massive income and reputation hit, right?

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Machete

Engaged Member
Apr 7, 2020
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This is where I think the "Canon Edwin" and "Your/Mine/His/Hers" Edwin need to have a distinction in our discussions, I made different choices regarding the carnations but that does not make my or your Edwin any less valid. However every Edwin HAS to lie about working at the club (so far), every Edwin HAS to take his dick out when he first meets Veronica and Lucy etc. A perfect example of what I mean is Every Edwin HAS to meet Hana on the first day but you can choose not to go to concert, not to talk to her while she is in the parking lot, not pursue sex with her at all.

Honestly hoping this update is like 80% Ian, 15% Hana, 5% Intros just so that this Ian and Mina discussion can move forward :KEK:
Absolutely. Sure some run have a better Edwin in them then others. Wouldn't i myself have opted for the pursuit of Hana and having kept Edwin's involvment with the club at the bare minimum necessary i would have probably considered to also pursuit a redemption arc with Mina.

At this point of a game release it's hard to see what will happen moving forward, but we can say, so far, that the authors know how to tell a story and how to build a well working character pshycology. Therefore i'm very confident that all the possible endings of the game will feel solid and deserved.
 

Machete

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Apr 7, 2020
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I agree that the endings will all feel solid and deserved, the post you quoted is more about the idea that there are things that happen to every Edwin and there are choices that influence him that we the players make. I think that more weight should given to things that happen regardless of our choice (as far as story discussion goes) ie you shouldnt say Edwin is as bad as Ian when edwin is only forced to have have sex/get a blowjob like 3-4 times during the time the game has takes place.
Yes, but i don't think you can partake in a run where Edwin completely abstain from having sexual acts at least during the showtime, but i might be wrong with this, i haven't tryed.
And i don't personally find entirely compatible this situation with a relationship with the unaware Mina. Hana on the other hand knows what's going on and she can decide to be on board. While to Mina Edwin would be, at the very least, starting the relationship under false premises "i work in a sort of gentlemen club, i do nothing weird". It's not even the sex per se, it's more about the lack of honesty, which is what destroyes Mina's faith in Ian in the first place.
 

RC-1138 Boss

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Apr 26, 2017
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What do you all think about a possible Carnations strike right before one of the next exhibitions?

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Assuming Vero, Rosa and Feli actually agree with this and tell Kath they will not perform at the last minute she would be forced to give them something or the club would take a massive income and reputation hit, right?

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Don't think they would be able to because of how different their issues are. For instance doubt Rosalind would be willing to wait extra weeks when she has loan shark thugs going to her home to threaten she and her daughter.

Ian lies and fucks more women than Edwin is FORCED to
Ian fucks more women. Period. :LOL: :LOL:
The guy pratically lives inside the Carnation club and it is implied he likely had sex with most if not all of the prostitutes working there.
 
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Sep 26, 2021
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Or a bad end where they drug the hell out of the MC with some super-aphrodiasic and bring mom in to see just how much the drug kills any morals he might have. A truly bad end would be them both drugged and part of a giant orgy (or poor Victoria used by the entire club after Edwin has his way with her and the drug wears off for him). Not really sure how that end would occur unless he somehow tried to break the club and Kathleen found out about it and wanted to punish/nreak him.
Not sure if someone has already made this point, but I don't think there is any possibility that Victoria and Edwin ever become sexually involved with each other, if only because the game is on Patreon.
 
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tiofrodo

Newbie
Nov 19, 2017
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I am not sure what the amount of enjoyment she got from doing the porn has to do with not looking for a partner? Especially considering the last confirmed tape was 13 years ago? Or how that ties into Edwins Naivety at all? Since you say " if Victoria actually enjoyed doing the porn" Where is the evidence for the fact she did not enjoy it? Because it is logical (and often the case) for women in the real world?

In case there is a miscommunication I dont think Victoria (or Rose/Veronica/Felica) are whores because they enjoy(ed) having sex. I just think that they are characters (who like the male ones) can enjoy having sex.

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The point I was trying to make is that Victoria is more or less explicitly said to be sexually inactive and satisfied with her life since a long time ago, IE: not looking for a sexual partner or sexual release. The suspension of disbelief comes from thinking that there is no rhyme or reason for this to be even a discussion in the story because it is irrelevant to her character without retconning the fact that she is very much fine being sexless and making Edwin be more oblivious that he has shown to be, to be completely blindsided by his mom's sexual activity, something that wouldn't even need 'hiding' between them either.

To the discussion at large, to me, focusing on things like that just seem to be trying to make her into another victim of the club/club adjacent people and that, to be completely honest, would just be a boring development. Like using your talking points that Chuck and August might have been involved with her, that development would just make them more villains than they already are, which would destroy any nuance that this story might have while also throwing away a good character in Victoria just so she could fit in the same role that the other carnations already are.

Victoria's character isn't only refreshing because you aren't gonna dick her down, she is refreshing because she exists as the grouding character to Edwin's high flying one.
 
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