VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Idontplay]

He will bring the club in Mina.

Poor Mina…

 

[ename144]

Absolutely, it took 20 years of emotional neglect from his Mother, around 8+ years of influence from Chuck and ~3 years of CarnationClub to mold Ian into the young man he is today.
Victoria and Edwin battled these bad influences by being there for him for lets say 10 to 12+ (minus the last 3 years they hadn't much contact) years now. I think the result of this battle speaks for its own.

Yes, it's plausible that positive reinforcement may turn this around, but i don't believe it is possible in this short amount of time we are looking at in PaleCarnation. And it's not really plausible why we should involve Mina in this process.

In my opinion the right and honorable things to do would be:

• Don't start an affair with Mina, but push for a breakup. Ian is not ready for any relationship in his current condition.
• Get close to Grace and figure out her side of this strange relation she has with her son.
• Try to get Ian into college, to break his player lifestyle as a photographer, and to please Grace as a first step.
• Alienate Ian and his 'Uncle' by any means possible.
• Get Ian out of the Carnation Club by any means possible.
• and last but not least, as already mentioned, push for him to get professional help.

The little help a 'patched up' relationship may provide to this steps doesn't outweigh the cost Mina has to pay, because she gains little for just as long as Ian needs to better himself, while still suffering from his personality during that time.
This is lost time she could spend instead with someone else with a healthy personality in a healthy relationship.

I'd say that's her choice to make, though. You said in a later post that what's in Mina's best interest is the important point, but I think that's only true if Mina is the one deciding what's in her interest. People keep saying we should encourage her to break up with Ian, but that skips the question of just why Mina hasn't already done so. It's not like she needs our help to realize dumping him is an option.

To me, the step that's missing from your list is to drill into why Mina is still so reluctant to end things with Ian. Sure, maybe she's the sheltered ingenue she seems to be on the surface (even though we've learned the initial impression wasn't accurate); if she's just nervous about finding someone else, then yeah, there's nothing here worth saving. But if Mina really does see something meaningful in Ian and still wants to make things work, it seems somewhat presumptuous to override her wishes on the assumption we know best based purely on the small snippet of their relationship that we've been shown.

It seems better to help Mina make sense of her feelings. Lay out the options, the stakes and the pitfalls, and let her decide for herself what she wants. If she still wants Ian, I'm not going to turn away a willing ally just because she might wind up being mistaken.

 

[selberdreher]

I'd say that's her choice to make, though.

Ultimately it's her choice, we can't break up for her, she will do this step or not (probably based on her Killian Romance Score).
It's not unusual to turn to friends or other persons of trust, if someone is faced with a hard decision. And instead of being ambiguous and basically saying you're on your own there (which you, ename144, don't, by showing her the pros and cons), i prefer to give an honest assessment of the situation (which is quite close to your approach) and a clear recommendation (which she can ignore or not). Especially in relationships where someone gets the short end of the stick, they often have a hard time to end things without any external input and push. Your approach is in my opinion the better one for less distinct situations.
I'd like to recall also (again) axeafxas

When you enter your first relationship, it is incredibly easy to be taken advantage of. You dont know your limits you dont know how to properly say no and you dont know how and where to draw the line.

Which i believe pinpoints the situation here.

Lay out the options, the stakes and the pitfalls, and let her decide for herself what she wants.

This works with a grown-up person and not a child, less exaggerated and more related to Mina: she is just too inexperienced and perhaps immature to make full use of your concept.

Just checked in my canon playthrough, MyEdwin chose to kiss her in the bathtub (Casual Lovers) and let her handle things at her own pace, trusting that her Killian Romance Score of zero will seal the deal. Don't really know if that fits into our two categories, but it's probably closer to mine.

 

[Ozygator]

Could be one of those "Japanese game show" videos where you cant see their face (because they are half in a wall) .

Or a bad end where they drug the hell out of the MC with some super-aphrodiasic and bring mom in to see just how much the drug kills any morals he might have. A truly bad end would be them both drugged and part of a giant orgy (or poor Victoria used by the entire club after Edwin has his way with her and the drug wears off for him). Not really sure how that end would occur unless he somehow tried to break the club and Kathleen found out about it and wanted to punish/nreak him.

 

[selberdreher]

To me, the step that's missing from your list is to drill into why Mina is still so reluctant to end things with Ian.

I wouldn't call her reluctant, afterall she just found the USB-Stick on Thursday, before this discovery she had no tangible proof of Ians infidelity. And don't forget her bucket list, her alledged first item was "I wanted to know what it felt like to be unfaithful."
Thursdays discovery gave her the justification for it, but she couldn't break up right there and then, if she wanted to act on it.

I try to imagine at the moment how much time i would need after i found out my girlfriend cheated on me until i gathered the guts to actually break-up with her. Stalling the decision for like 1-3 days doesn't seem too reluctant to me. Hm, probably would depend on how exactly i found out...

 

[selberdreher]

God, Simpgor slow down a bit, i know i write a lot, but it takes me hours!
Since i logged in hadn't the chance to reply to one of your post i wanted to and you posted already like 4 more!
Give me some time to catch up, will you?

 

[Ozygator]

To conclude this little trilogy, i'd like to focus on Mina, because sofar Ian was very prominent, while Mina was kind of a backdrop in most of the posts regarding their relationship.

The Question here would be: what course of action is in Minas best interest?

and without adding much more from myself,

i kind of like Machetes take on it here and there:

in conjunction with axeafxas post on abusive relationships in general and how it can be applied to Mina x Ian. Worth a full repost in my opinion.

Bottomline is: as much as Ian is a threat to her well-being, choosing our MC over him is not necessarily better.

I think the last sentence really depends o how you've played Edwin to this point. In my version he never once lied to Mina. he helped her out, offered to be someone to listen to her and basically did all the 'good' things that Ian should have done as her BF. Did he chase her sexually? Yep he did. Why? Well why the hell not, she was hot, and he had fun being around her and she was going to break up with Ian anyway from all the clues that she was throwing out, so instead of some schlub why not step into the role?

You could say he's a man-whore for the actions in the club and otherwise but he's never claimed otherwise with Mina, she knows who he is, yet he's never done a single thing to break her trust or show that he would take advantage of her. He also showed her that there are other options, and guys that wull treat her better, even if they are just FwB currently. She seems ok with it too, and recognizes that he is someone 'safe' she can play and have fun with as a learning experience.

So yeah, I'd say that the myEdwin is a far cry above Ian thus far, he's always tried to make the best of whatever shitty hand he's been dealt, not taken advantage of others (some of it is definitely mutal taking advantage of each other due to the poor circumstances some of the women are in, we all know the deal) and kept his word when given. Now that doesn't mean he's a white knight by any means, but he doesn't play people false, or lie (just may not tell them everything going on) which is a far cry from how Ian has acted.

 

[ename144]

Ultimately it's her choice, we can't break up for her, she will do this step or not (probably based on her Killian Romance Score).
It's not unusual to turn to friends or other persons of trust, if someone is faced with a hard decision. And instead of being ambiguous and basically saying you're on your own there (which you don't, by showing her the pros and cons), i prefer to give an honest assessment of the situation (which is quite close to your approach) and a clear recommendation (which she can ignore or not). Especially in relationships where someone gets the short end of the stick, they often have a hard time to end things without any external input and push. Your approach is in my opinion the better one for less distinct situations.
I'd like to recall also (again) axeafxas

Which i believe pinpoints the situation here.

This works with a grown-up person and not a child, less exaggerated and more related to Mina: she is just to inexperienced and perhaps immature to make full use of your concept.

I don't agree. Mina certainly has insecurities, but she isn't a child. She doesn't need us to do her thinking for her, anymore than she needs her mother to keep smothering her. You can give her a recommendation, of course, but if you don't listen to her thoughts before you issue that recommendation I fear you may do more harm than good.

Just checked in my canon playthrough, MyEdwin chose to kiss her in the bathtub (Casual Lovers) and let her handle things at her own pace, trusting that her Killian Romance Score of zero will seal the deal. Don't really know if that fits into our two categories, but it's probably closer to mine.

Ummm, if you're in a tub with Mina I think you're well past merely making a recommendation.

Mina chooses to cheat even if it is not with Edwin, we know for fact that at the bar with Felicia she is already looking for someone to show Ian that she can play around too. If Mina wanted to cuck Ian in revenge would you support that? What if she just wanted do it because it turned her on more? Like you say she should do what is in her best interest and not me, or you have any say in what that is.

I'm firmly opposed to helping Mina cheat. That's just not cool.

I'm already annoyed the MC is so passive when Killian pulls that shit, the last thing I want to do is turn him into a role model. Not only might encouraging Mina to cheat do bad things to Mina as a person, it will almost certainly drive Ian even further into the abyss.

If the topic came up, I'd prefer to ask Mina why she wants to cheat and proceed from there. If Mina thinks it will make her feel better, I'd try to direct her to less extreme alternatives. If it turns out she enjoys the thrill, well, it's ultimately her prerogative, but she'll have to do it without the MC's help.

I might be mistaken but she never implies that she sees anything deep or at least deep enough to imply why she stayed with him so long. Edwin also wonders this until he realizes Ian is her first boyfriend at all. If she cant find a reason for why they stayed together so long why would she have a reason to make things work? She has been wanting to "prove she can play too" for weeks by the time the USB happens regardless of how much you do or dont interact. I personally think that she does not hate Ian, nor does she particularly want to hurt his feelings since she doesnt demand that you cuck him or anything like that, I think the much bigger issue is Ian's (intentional or not) emotional abuse.

She does imply it, you just don't believe her.

I think it's important to recognize how little of the interactions between the two we've seen. It's possible this is all there ever was, but it's also possible we've just never seen the positive side of Ian. That's why I'd prefer to delve a little deeper into the matter before I encourage Mina to write the whole thing off.

I wouldn't call her reluctant, afterall she just found the USB-Stick on Thursday, before this discovery she had no tangible proof of Ians infidelity. And don't forget her bucket list, her alledged first item was "I wanted to know what it felt like to be unfaithful."
Thursdays discovery gave her the justification to act on it, but she couldn't break up right there and then, if she wanted to act on it.

I try to imagine at the moment how much time i would need after i found out my girlfriend cheated on me until i gathered the guts to actually break-up with her. Stalling the decision for like 1-3 days doesn't seem too reluctant to me. Hm, probably would depend on how exactly i found out...

I was thinking more about the tub scene where the MC can encourage Mina to break up with Ian:

If that's her response after the MC has become her new lover, I'd call it reluctant - whatever the actual reason. Sure, it could just be inertia or inexperience, but I'd prefer not to blindly assume that. We know there's a lot more to Mina than meets the eye, after all.

 

[Ozygator]

Regarding the porn career there are now at least four (or three) videos of Victoria with different timestamps in them, which validates them as real. I am not sure if i found them all, because they are sprinkled throughout the game and some of them we see only after very specific choices.
Since the timestamps were messed up in the last update i don't have visual proof readily available, and i have to play a recently downloaded Ch3Upd3 compressed version to have access to them again.
But so far, in case you and our fellow thread members take my word for it until i can provide those screenshots, these are the dates:

08. Jan 2009 Victorias casting video, from roughly 14:30 to 15:30, the colouring is greyish.
27. Feb 2009 Victorias supposedly second video, from ca 17:45 to 18:40, its the yellowish bukkake gangbang we see at the start.
24. Mar 2009 visually and thematically very close to the second one with a 17:05 timestamp, also yellowish with three men.

and last an again very likely mislabeled one
08. Jan 2009 11:37 Victoria partially undressed on a violet bed surrounded by two men.

as claimed in my post here, i don't think the flashback video in Rosies second exhibition took place in reality, but this claim could be wrong.

As far as the timestamps go, they are all located in the first half of 2009, that's why i concluded Vickys porn career was more a matter of months than years. Until a Video surfaces which has an 2010 or later timestamp, i will stick to my assumption.

Hmm, I agree with Turret that I think her porn career was longer than some expect. I also think the scene with Rose was a true recap from a movie Edwin saw her in.

Your time stamps are interesting and make me want to parse through the images to review. Not sure it's worth noting that when the firs timage showed the 24 March date, the next image (in what seemed to be the camera viewfinder scene not the recorded video being watch on PC screen) showed the 27 Feb date, as did all the others in that sequence. I assumed (probably wrongly) that was just a glitch in the rendering for the scene, but it could easily have been a deliberate nose tweak to see if the players really caught the fact it was TWO seperate gang-bang scenes that had been done.

I did catch the initial 08 Jan scene, although I had forgotten the grey scale casting video, I assumed the later video on the violet bed to be part of that same initial movie shot. It interesting to note that the first three apparent videos we have seen was Victoria with multiple men at a time, they really broke her in well it seems...

As mentioned i think the recap that Edwin saw during the scene with Rose was legit, and was a later film with his mom, most likely after her 'shame' wore off and she was a semi-pro star who just came in, got screwed and paid and left and apparently enjoyed the sex, which is one way I assume to also get over the grief of her husband. I am curious to see just how long she did porn and how that impacted her dating.

I mean beyond the obvious, but she wouldn't be feeling lonely or horny since porn "scratched the itch" so maybe she was less inclined to date and just focused on Edwin and used porn when she was feeling particularly antsy. Hell she could easily have done porn for years off and on (back to Turret's idea) until Edwin was about to start middle/high school and only stopped on the off chance that more films would equal more potential to get caught and it's harder to hide. "Oh Ms. Smith, what do you do for a living?" if she met other parents, or realized that high school teachers are a bit more adult in their outlook so more potential to get found out.

In any event, can't wait to see how this all plays out and find out more answers. Great discussion everyone, appreciate the feedback.

 

[Ozygator]

I had forgotten about that scene not that I did not believe her, as for the tub I think that just shows hesitation not any clues one way or the other. I would ask is the scene with them having a moment before or after she was given evidence by Ian (willingly or not) of his cheating?

Mina will 100% want to cheat as it is one of the top things on her fucket list which exists regardless of the Ian/Mine score and thus Edwin as whole. You will have to go against her wishes if you want to prevent her being unfaithful with Edwin or others.

Disagree with the last sentence. It doesn't jive with Mina. Sure 'wanting to cheat' was the top of her list, but why?? It's not a random thing, she's had exmaples of Ian cheating on her (unknowingly knowing) for likely months and then finally finda hard proof of it, which only confirms what she's felt was going on for awhile.

She seemed to have that at the top of her list to just see what the big attrraction to it was. I mean, her supposed BF had been cheating on her for days/weeks/months, and she seemed to want to know what was so 'special' about it? What made it so absolutely fantastic that this guy she cared about and he supposedly cared about her, would continually treat her that way. I mean if this guy was continually doing it, then it must be magical right? I mean the best thing you could ever do in sex! That had to be it, right? Right? RIGHT?

And then she did it and was like.. "oh, BFD..." and it was a let-down and thats when she realized it wasn't magical, it wasn't the best thing ever you could do for sex, it wasn't this supreme act that transcended sex to a spiritual nirvana. No, it was just a dude with no ability yo keep his dick in his pants, and she was just a girl who was cheated on.

With that as the backdrop of the situation, two things come to mind.... 1) That she's not prone to cheat just because she can, because that's not her personality (at least currently) and 2) she wouldn't be cheating on Edwin because they aren't even a couple. She trust him enough to explore the deviant fantasies she has, and thinks of him as a friend (with benefits now if the player took things that way) but that's it.

You can't cheat without a monomagous relationship and she doesn't even have that with Edwin, so she can't cheat on him.

 

[Ozygator]

As we discussed the secondary stats of the carnations and our little angel and devil (it's up to you to decide who's the angel and who's the devil) we tended to focus on Minas bi-curious stat, whereas i think in truth her Killian Romance Score is more akin to Rosies Libido and Veros Horniness. I'll leave it to you, my fellow thread members, to ponder the implication of this statement.

Side question.. Can you reference any good responses that dive into what these secondary stat's might mean? Appreciate it!

 

[Ozygator]

Isnt Kathleen surprised when Edwin knows his mom did porn or is that only if you answer it calmly? If her surprise is due to Edwin knowing wouldnt that imply that she did not make very many videos? We know she used her real first name in one of them and Kathleen does not bring up a porn stars name like she might if Victoria was more known under a different name she just brings up the fact it was his mom.

In fact do we know that all she did was porn? Her having done more willingly or under coercion could fill in some holes/questions in Her, Chucks, and Edwins backstories.

I felt that i might be misinterpreted when i wrote that so I will go back and fix it but I meant that Mina will want to cheat on Ian 100% whether that is with Edwin or someone else.

Hmm, not sure. I think myEdwin answered that angrily, but can't recall, I played the game over like 2 marathon 10 hour sessions (geeeze it was damn long, lol) so it became a blur after awhile. I took that as more she was surprised he knew, not that his mom had not done several films. Let's face it, with the modern internet the randomness of stumbling accross some random peron you know's porn movie is pretty rare, unless they did it for a decently sized studio or did enough of them to be found (which I know could go either way for how many of them she did).

Vic's films could have been limited release or on very obscure/old websites or limited access now, I mean assuming her career was 10 years ago in game time, or even just 6-8 years, thats a LOT of old footage to randomly parse through, literally thousands of hours worth just for new "casting couch" type films. Even if a half dozen or more films were made, if they are 5+ years old, and the actress not well known it's unlikley they'd be found.

And you second question is more relevant and brings me back to one post I made about Victoria's involvement with Chuck in the past.. Who's to say she was not an escort or something similar? I mean if she didn't want to have her face plastered all over the internet, perhaps she realized she was at the point where she might be recognized, she could have easily swapped into escorting. It's the same concept, less audience, rarely if ever taped, and probably a LOT more up-front money. Assuming August was a porn director/producer of any of her films, and knowing his connections to prostitution and what appears to be organized crime, if she knew him she could have asked him, or hell he could have propositioned her to swap into a much more high level 'career' that way. Lot's of upside, less chance to get caught, more time to perform (career wise) without needing to stop, he makes more profits, she does too, and assuming the last video was legit, with her dressed up, perhaps that was a portent of the future for Vic?

We'll just have to wait and see. One thing for sure, at this point, as open minded as she appears to be, and assuming the scene during the Rose video was legit and not a coping mechanism fantasy, she definitely didn't seem to be under duress or stresed out that she was doing a film or having sex for money or on film.. *shrugs*

 

[selberdreher]

but she isn't a child

I feared you read it this way, that's why i added that this comparison is exaggerated.

To be crystal clear: I don't see her as a child, and i don't think she is a mindless doll who needs us to do the thinking for her or an helpless puppy which survives only if we take care of her and make all the decisions because she is too naive for her own good.
But i stick to my latter part: she is just too inexperienced and perhaps immature to make full use of your concept.

It's bit like 19yo signing a fourty year life-insurance contract with premiums which raise from year to year. Started at like 100€ at a month and will be like 2500€+ (per month!) in the last five years or so.
I tried exactly your approach with them, layed out the pro and cons, (Pro: they get a shit ton of payout at the end of the contract, if they are able to stick to the payment plan, and even then they accounted for like 80% of the payout with their own money, interest rates were actually lousy; Con: if they aren't able to stick to the payment plan it'll all bust into their faces) held back my recommendation (don't do it! and if you do choose either a shorter run time like 20 years or start with higher premiums and let them raise slower!), but alas missing life experience and the inability to grasp the imponderables which life can bring unto them made them do it anyway.
Sigh.
Such are the whims of the younglings....

Ummm, if you're in a tub with Mina I think you're well past merely making a recommendation.

Aaaahm, you could be right there, but i prefer the notion that i made a quite impactful recommendation.

 

[Ozygator]

TL;DR: Victoria will have sex scenes, not necessarily incest related. Part 2 of 2

However lets steer away from the incest and look at some other scenarios regarding Edwins Mother:

It will depend a bit on how you play your MC, but i think there is indeed a quite high possibility that we eventually see Victoria involved in sex that doesnt only happen in Pornvideos from the past.

Infact with her Porn Background she is a very easy Prey, because although Edwin knows about it, she doesnt know that he knows: blackmailing her into sex and/or other stuff should be rather easy, if someone threatens to expose her.
So Why should someone try to blackmail her?
The reasoning behind it would be prominently that Victoria is Edwins biggest weakness, anybody who would try to gain leverage or an advantage over Edwin would rather target Victoria than him.
Of course pure horniness or perversion or sadistic impulses would work also to a lesser degree as motives.

i think there are primarily three contenders, who could make this happen: Kathleen (ofc), "Uncle" Chuck and Killian.

Lets start with Killian:
he is a horndog and he has obviously a thing for Victoria, who is on the one hand more a like a mother to him than his real one, but on the other hand he fucked his nanny, who took care of him as child, without remorse, since she was "just an employee". Killian has quite a few character flaws, but perhaps his ugliest would be that he treats people he doesnt respect like playthings. As long as he holds Victoria in high regard she should be rather safe from his whims, but this could drastically change, if he should ever get his hands on those videos.
Nonetheless i think he is overall the weakest contender of the three to make it happen.

Regarding Chuck and Kathleen:
Kathleen has a Coup d Etat in the making, so there will be a big power struggle in the club with lots of scheming.
Nominally there are 2 Factions:
Kathleen allied with Abel and Sophia VS August and Chuck
Since August and Chuck are at the moment unaware of Kathleens plans they are not allied.
Killian would side with Chuck since he will inherit his uncle share of the club.
Hana hates Kathleen, she will begrudgingly ally with her old man, and in my playthrough Edwin is Hanas (not-boy) friend.

Chuck:
He is a pervert, has high interest in playing strategic games, doesnt like to loose, plays the long game. A real wildcard.
i dont think he would be a natural ally to August, he could as well try to stay neutral until he is forced to join a side, or side with the expected winning side, or even try to form his own faction and oust the other twos.
Victoria and Chuck seem to share a certain past, he could have brought her into the pornbiz, if so he has definetly material to blackmail her.
if he thinks Edwin could be of assistance in this power-struggle he could play this card to gain leverage.
or if he think it could be interesting or funny he could play the videos in Killian hands, to see how it plays out.
Chuck is really hard to assess in that matter.

Kathleen:
She knows of Victorias past since at least Edwin confessed to Hana after the pool party that his mother was in porn, which she taped with the security cams. But since she vetted Victoria thoroughly i totally expect her that she already knew all along. (*Edit: Kathleen tells Edwin about his Mothers PornCareer in the car scene, before the Lucy - Veronica competition for carnation slot3.)
She views (at least in my Playthrough) Edwin as a capable asset.
Having Edwin on her side would strengthen her attack and weaken her opponents. She could also try to take him out of the equation. Having access to the Bimbo-Drug would make Edwin extremly vulnerable should she ever decide to try it on Victoria.
or because she seeks revenge on Edwin, or she wants to break him to unleash the monster in him, or just because she is a sadist who revels in the pain of others.
In my opinion Kathleen is the strongest contender to make Victoria sex scenes available.

Again: Victoria is Edwins biggest weakness, anybody who would try to gain leverage or an advantage over Edwin would rather target his Mother than him.
And a sex club which exploits its victims weaknesses by forcing them into degrading acts of all kind, would surely target Victoria in a similar way.

Your thoughts?

Part 2/2: Why Victoria will have Sex Scenes, ofc depending on your Playthrough

Hahahah, now I see why my post last week you said we were on the same page! Yep, it's spooky how close you called out scenario's I agree with 100%.

 

[selberdreher]

I think it is fairly disingenuous to claim Edwin is as much of a liar as Ian or a as much of a "manwhore" for that matter.

Now finally for the reply i wanted to do in the first place.

I am aware that Machetes post about being a "lying manwhore" is a bit exaggerated and less subtly nuanced.

I don't really recall, if myEdwin actually lied to Mina, but he did at least once when i opted for "Caution her, but you believe she can do it" instead of "She IS being dumb" with Feli in her heart to heart on the secret roof garden.
If i run again my canon playthrough i expect to stumble upon quite a few more decisions with multiple ladies in which myEdwin was not completely truthful, but instead played into the situations appropriate behaviour... with Kathleen definetly, since i have the second(?) highest affection score with her and shitloads of her Trust, but myEdwin (or me) despises her. So the lying part atleast for myEdwin isn't wrong.
Well, and the manwhore part i have to unashamedly call true. Because the only woman myEdwin hadn't sex with is Hana, and not all the other trysts were purely work related.

unless you want to we the player could purposefully be bad for Mina

which is exactly the point, Edwin can be a much better (boy-)friend to her than Ian, but i believe he can be relative easily even worse.
I have to admit i am very tempted to go down this rabbithole with her, although my primary goal is to keep it sane. Who can tell where precisely the event horizon, the point of no return is located, if we embark on this journey with Mina (i am talking about her bucket list mainly). MyEdwin is for sure not a pure white knight anymore.
Infact my playthrough revolves around balancing on the edge of the abyss without falling in.

That's why it would be probably better for the Mina in my playthrough to stay away from Edwin.

 

[ename144]

I feared you read it this way, that's why i added that this comparison is exaggerated.

To be crystal clear: I don't see her as a child, and i don't think she is a mindless doll who needs us to do the thinking for her or an helpless puppy which survives only if we take care of her and make all the decisions because she is too naive for her own good.
But i stick to my latter part: she is just too inexperienced and perhaps immature to make full use of your concept.

I take your point, but allow me likewise to be clear: I don't see Mina as immature. She's actually quite mature, able to recognize not only what's 'expected' of her, but to question where those expectations end and where she begins. Mina lacks experience and confidence (at least in some arenas), but she has a very capable head on her shoulders.

It's bit like 19yo signing a fourty year life-insurance contract with premiums which raise from year to year. Started at like 100€ at a month and will be like 2500€+ (per month!) in the last five years or so.
I tried exactly your approach with them, layed out the pro and cons, (Pro: they get a shit ton of payout at the end of the contract, if they are able to stick to the payment plan, and even then they accounted for like 80% of the payout with their own money, interest rates were actually lousy; Con: if they aren't able to stick to the payment plan it'll all bust into their faces) held back my recommendation (don't do it! and if you do choose either a shorter run time like 20 years or start with higher premiums and let them raise slower!), but alas missing life experience and the inability to grasp the imponderables which life can bring unto them made them do it anyway.
Sigh.
Such are the whims of the younglings....

I'd say it's more akin to a teenager writing a will. It's never a pleasant topic and obviously not something they'd normally be expected to do, but it's hardly beyond their grasp if they're willing to take it seriously.

So the question isn't really whether Mina can handle it, just whether she'd benefit from it. And IMHO she could. Ian's already forced the issue, might as well meet it head on.

 

[tiofrodo]

Dropping in to remind people that Women in porn videos are in fact actors and more often than not they are acting the enjoyment that appears on screen. Filming porn is nothing like having sex and even if the actors would enjoy the sex that supposedly happen within the scene, chances are that they can't enjoy themselves because they have to stop and change with the whims of the director.

 

[selberdreher]

So yeah, I'd say that the myEdwin is a far cry above Ian thus far, he's always tried to make the best of whatever shitty hand he's been dealt, not taken advantage of others (some of it is definitely mutal taking advantage of each other due to the poor circumstances some of the women are in, we all know the deal) and kept his word when given. Now that doesn't mean he's a white knight by any means, but he doesn't play people false, or lie (just may not tell them everything going on)

I like your playstyle and believe it's relatively close to mine, except the lying part (i believe it's necessary in my run), which i'd like to call 'Tainted White Knight'.
MyEdwin really tries to help those girls which he has in his care, but he also has to face the reality that he has to handle them for the exhibition. MyEdwin realizes his influence and power is at the moment very limited, so same as yourEdwin he needs to make the best out of the hand he has been given.
There is a relatively old post i'd like to share in which i explain my approach with Rosie and Feli for instance (slightly edited):

"Back in my youthful days i was a member of a club, which central purpose is to provide help to drowning people as a first responder and to assist professional rescue services on water based accidents (at the Sea, at Lakes and Public Pools).
So the thing is, drowning people often are understandably panicking, thus endangering and hampering the rescue process, and in worst case this can lead to the death of both the accident victim and the helper.
So the rescuer is allowed to make them... comply, including stuff like dislocating joints, breaking an arm or choking them to unconsciousness. Literally 'the ends justifies the means'.

I took a similar approach with Rosie, making her docile and following my lead, she doesnt need to like Edwin to profit from his help. It doesnt look like it, but i am indeed fond of her, and i plan to crawl back out of the cellar relationship wise. I do also believe, that this harsh approach hardens her resilience against the trials she has to face, and making a deal elevates her out of a dependent and receiving role, because she gets something for giving something. MyEdwins help is not charity, it's a commodity she earned.

The same stands true with Felicias Sugar-Mama Date: i was tempted to do it for free, because it is obviously nicer and helps her with her confidence, and i really like her as a person, but opted against it. Experiencing the power she can wield with her money, being able to reverse the role she was used to her whole life, may also gain her some confidence.
Not to forget, with his own funds at his disposal, without having to ask someone for it, MyEdwin can act faster and more freely if the necessity arises."

As you can see myEdwin doesn't try to be an asshole, but sometimes he believes he has to be an asshole to be in better position to achieve his goals, which are - since the last update - to bring down Kathleen and Chuck (formerly only Kathleen). And since he has chosen the probably most dangerous and resourcefull owners as opponents he has to be extra careful.

 

[selberdreher]

Mina is the same as far as scores go but I want it to be as soon as possible (maybe as soon as you guys hanging out next update wink wink) so that any fallout from it can die down a bit before the big stay or leave split as I plan (maybe hope) to work with Ian especially if I decide to stay which I am leaning toward because it sounds like the more interesting option.

Yeah, i am also inclined to stay at the club, and i think MyEdwin has a high enough Bromance score with Ian to soak up potential damage to their relation caused by the Mina issue.

 

[tiofrodo]

Not sure if you mean this to imply that Victoria enjoyed it less than is implied so far? Victoria was not an actor she would have been an amateur at the time. Either way I do agree she could be faking it but given the vibe of the game I am more inclined to believe Victoria enjoyed it more than someone in the real world would.

Yes, even amateurs one can and do fake it, otherwise OF wouldn't be as popular as it is now. But to the bigger point, I think if Victoria actually enjoyed doing the porn, either because of the sex or because of the the filming, it would take an unbelievable amount of suspension of disbelief to make Edwin character way more naive than he has ever been shown, specially as I am pretty sure that in earlier conversations between the two it is established that she is satisfied not looking for a partner.