VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[RC-1138 Boss]

Abel is such a "nice guy" that he is conducting a ilegal drug test in the Carnations club's prostitutes.

Chuck is so "nice" that most the women working there are afraid of him and even the other patrons are afraid when he gets angry. And if that wasn't enough, it is heavily implied he is involved in the reason for the disapearance of the guy who held Edwin's current job.

And let's not forget August. Such a "nice guy" blackmailing his daughter to get her into the family business, just so he can leave a legacy behind.

You can't simply ignore the game's story and events to try to prove your point.

 

[Deleted member 5730975]

what bad did abel or chuck do? or the 'dirty old bastards'?
most of the 'dirty old bastards' (except ~3) have done nothing but normal sex and watching and basically paying the prostitutes life/carnations dreams
see, you put them on the same level as kathleen who is purely sadistic and is responsible so far for almost all suffering we have seen live on screen

and warren is surely the most hated character in the game for most people

You said and I quote 'imagine the outcry if kathleen was a man doing these things lol' and I responded with 'warren is worse'. Also see everything RC-1138 Boss said in the post above.

The point of my post was partly to tell you why I think TD's post makes perfect sense to me - the story would not be compelling and there would not be a moral dilemma if it was not easy to empathize with the whores and carnations. And I made my post partly to stop the political bullshit that was being added to the conversation when there is no need to do so - it never goes well in a forum like this one. People will just argue back and forth in circles.

In any case I am done with this conversation. If we disagree so be it.

 

[Hector Wimbleton]

Can someone send link for Discord?

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Isn't it only for patrons?

Nope

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Honestly I think you're both right -but I dont think the story is contrived to be that way. What I mean is by and large the women are put in a more sympathetic light, in no small part because this is a porn game and the blood has left our rational faculties onto more pressing business - and we wouldnt want it any other way.

Most of the men are over the top scumbags, but I dunno, I just dont get the feeling that it's by design; and believe me I'm no ally of the prog folks (notice my deleted posts earlier were arguing with the other guy talking about blah blah patriarchy.)

All I'm saying is Ive seen bad cases of this - and overall, PC feels like its characters serve their appropriate roles in the story without us, the player, feeling like we're being preached to.

 

[TD1900]

No offense TD, but this about sums up one of biggest problems in the west right now.
All men bad,

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If that's what you got from me essentially saying peoples shouldn't dehumanize "whores", you're bringing the kind of personal baggage that makes me question if this is worth replying to. Nevertheless, notice I didn't say "the women in the game are portrayed in a more empathetic light." Kathleen is widely hated and for a reason; she uses her dead sister's charity, a place vulnerable women turn to in their greatest time of need, to recruit and pit them against each other in a sexual circus fueled by desperation. Now, the Carnations are there by choice, and therefor share culpability in their own fate, but that in no way makes their circumstances unworthy of sympathy.

And come on man, what bad did Abel or Chuck do? Besides profit off of what Kathleen is doing, one is a pharmaceutical CEO and the other got obscenely rich off of weapons manufacturing. You can imagine the skeletons in their closet. It's not a stretch to say that Rosalind, Veronica, and Victoria are more worthy of empathy than the man using prostitutes as test subjects. Nor is any of that representative of a problematic "men bad, women good attitude", as Kathleen aside, Sophia is just as bad as Abel, and Felicia herself is looking to profit off and gain sexual gratification from the club.

Even Victoria, who is venerated as a saint by the player character, turned to sex work not out of pure desperation, but to maintain a comfortable life that many people will never experience. That's not to malign sex work either, far from it, it's to illustrate there's granularity beyond what you purport to be "one of the biggest problem in the west."

 

[cheesetriangles]

The person actually being paid to have sex during the entire plotline is Edwin. This is just more men want have sex with every girl and call us whores if we sleep anyone that isn’t you.

 

[DarkLords00]

It's kind of funny how even in a porn game site this discourse still appears.

Who even is a morally upstanding person in this game?

The carnations are all using the club to solve their own problems. Even if some are more symapthetic than others. They are still selling themselves on the hope that the club can fix their life issues.

The club owners hace zero disregard for the safety and wellbeing of their workers. They see them as simple tools to be use and discarded if they no longer can profit from them. (Remember Warren conversation about the pregnant lady?)

Edwin's mother decided to sell her body instead of changing her son life radically, and by a cruel or ironic twist of fate it ended up affecting his life regardless.

Hana goes along in what Kathleen and August ask of her in the hopes of helping her mother with the slim chance of maybe changing the work situation of the workers. Even if it leads nowhere and she herself realises she is being used by both of them and realises how effed up the situation is for everyone.

Mina does not have many doubts of jumping from her shit boyfriend to said boyfriend bestfriend.

Warren is physical and probably pshycohlogically abusive too. Hell, even Jacob despite him being an upstanding dude still works here and profits from it.


And finally, Killian and Edwin are 2 man-whores that enjoy the benefits of working in the club, with pretty much no drawback(if you consider lying to Victoria a drawback).

Really, everyone here is a morally compromised individual, some more than orthers obviously, but it doesn't change the fact that most characters are guilty of some kind of wrongdoing.

 

[Takkatakka]

No offense TD, but this about sums up one of biggest problems in the west right now.
All men bad,

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Buddy, if you actually think the "overly positive depiction of women in fiction" is one of the "biggest problems in the west right now"...

And for PC:

The - so far - main villain is a woman. And of course the Carnations have to be painted somewhat symptomatic or the story wouldn't work. The player is supposed to emphasis with them and like them. If the player doesn't like any of them or - even worse - hates them, then the whole story structure would be pointless. Also the overall setting of the game also means that most of the "audience" of the events can't be painted in the best of lights either. That doesn't mean all the guys in the game a assholes, but a lot simply have to be, because that is part of the story that is told.

 

[TD1900]

it sounded to me like "its very important to me, to never appear to cast a bad light on problematic female sexual behaviour or sexworkers, but men are free game, especially their problematic sexual behaviour"

now I know that you are super talented in wording your sentences, so I doubted I misunderstood it, but still maybe I took it for more than it meant

...

and now I don't want to distract you any longer from enjoying your release and hopefully some satisfaction and joy with it. and maybe some relaxation =)

good fortune !

Fair enough, but in greater context that highlighted line was in response to the whole "women are locks, men are lock picks" thing that values men for sleeping around and devalues women for doing the same - which is just an asinine double standard, especially on a porn forum. The entire paragraph above that line ran contrary to your "women are wonderful" inference. And I certainly believe you can find examples from the story that runs contrary to that too.

At any rate, thank you for the well wishes. If you play, I hope you will enjoy the update.

In two weeks of course, because we definitely won't leak immediately.

 

[kumenl0l]

I'm really torn on this one. On one hand, I really hope someone leaks the update early, and at the same time, I really don't. TD, GIL, you do amazing work.

 

[Zareem]

Priority access for Ch4Up2 is now available for the Club Owner owner tier.

Everyone
Changelog:
-2,069 static images
-63 animations
-54,657 words
- 6 new musical tracks
- Significant club content featuring 4 branching scenes depending on who lost week 2’s exhibition. Unlocking one will unlock the other 3 in the scene replay gallery for those who don’t want to go through the pain in the ass of manipulating an entire week’s worth of choices.
- Significant Mina content, with branches of varying lengths depending on whether you rejected/she cheated on Ian, as well as your relationship status with Hana.

Get it here:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[sunaboz]

IMO it's the best update so far. It has everything and the pacing is just perfect. Previous one was too monotonous for my taste but this one has so many great scenes that it's hard for me to decide which one is the best. Every render is meaningful, there is no waste here. And the story comes down together nicely, it shows that TD has a clear goal and the dots are being connected in a logical way.

Even disregarding erotic aspect it has some really interesting plot points, we learn some juicy details about certain individuals and cards are laid down on the table. The amount of honesty we're getting here is very refreshing and enjoyable (at least to me). When it comes to graphics GIL has once again surpassed himself but I won't spoil your fun and post examples, at least not until it will be out for everyone.

tl;dr
10/10 update

 

[imagica]

IMO it's the best update so far. It has everything and the pacing is just perfect. Previous one was too monotonous for my taste but this one has so many great scenes that it's hard for me to decide which one is the best. Every render is meaningful, there is no waste here. And the story comes down together nicely, it shows that TD has a clear goal and the dots are being connected in a logical way.

Even disregarding erotic aspect it has some really interesting plot points, we learn some juicy details about certain individuals and cards are laid down on the table. The amount of honesty we're getting here is very refreshing and enjoyable (at least to me). When it comes to graphics GIL has once again surpassed himself but I won't spoil your fun and post examples, at least not until it will be out for everyone.

tl;dr
10/10 update

You finished it in 10 minutes or what? How are you guys so fast.

 

[sunaboz]

You finished it in 10 minutes or what? How are you guys so fast.

I'm one of the beta testers, I've finished it 4 days ago.

 

[Needvdate]

Priority access for Ch4Up2 is now available for the Club Owner owner tier.

Everyone
Changelog:
-2,069 static images
-63 animations
-54,657 words
- 6 new musical tracks
- Significant club content featuring 4 branching scenes depending on who lost week 2’s exhibition. Unlocking one will unlock the other 3 in the scene replay gallery for those who don’t want to go through the pain in the ass of manipulating an entire week’s worth of choices.
- Significant Mina content, with branches of varying lengths depending on whether you rejected/she cheated on Ian, as well as your relationship status with Hana.

Get it here:

You must be registered to see the links

You posting it?

 

[Just a Memer]

Time to watch that scene from Shrek 2 on repeat until the chosen one appears

 

[mahlerbestcomposer97]

I posted a request thread https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-carnations-ch4-up2.154639/ maybe go and give it a +1 will speed up the wait? (if it's inappropriate i will remove it here sorry)

 

[madman11122]

We're waiting , for real though-- support the devs.

 

[ntentacle]

 

[BrockLanders]

In two weeks of course, because we definitely won't leak immediately.

I am fucking down for that. It would be non-toxic of us all to allow Patrons to get some added value for their support more than "a feeling of pride and accomplishment", and I say that as a poor.

At least a week.