VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

4.90 star(s) 498 Votes
Discussion Reviews (498)
P

Pr0GamerJohnny

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 7, 2022
6,565
9,789
Honestly I think you're both right -but I dont think the story is contrived to be that way. What I mean is by and large the women are put in a more sympathetic light, in no small part because this is a porn game and the blood has left our rational faculties onto more pressing business - and we wouldnt want it any other way.

Most of the men are over the top scumbags, but I dunno, I just dont get the feeling that it's by design; and believe me I'm no ally of the prog folks (notice my deleted posts earlier were arguing with the other guy talking about blah blah patriarchy.)

All I'm saying is Ive seen bad cases of this - and overall, PC feels like its characters serve their appropriate roles in the story without us, the player, feeling like we're being preached to.
 
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TD1900

TD1900

#701
Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
786
7,232
endless1m said:
No offense TD, but this about sums up one of biggest problems in the west right now.
All men bad,
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If that's what you got from me essentially saying peoples shouldn't dehumanize "whores", you're bringing the kind of personal baggage that makes me question if this is worth replying to. Nevertheless, notice I didn't say "the women in the game are portrayed in a more empathetic light." Kathleen is widely hated and for a reason; she uses her dead sister's charity, a place vulnerable women turn to in their greatest time of need, to recruit and pit them against each other in a sexual circus fueled by desperation. Now, the Carnations are there by choice, and therefor share culpability in their own fate, but that in no way makes their circumstances unworthy of sympathy.

And come on man, what bad did Abel or Chuck do? Besides profit off of what Kathleen is doing, one is a pharmaceutical CEO and the other got obscenely rich off of weapons manufacturing. You can imagine the skeletons in their closet. It's not a stretch to say that Rosalind, Veronica, and Victoria are more worthy of empathy than the man using prostitutes as test subjects. Nor is any of that representative of a problematic "men bad, women good attitude", as Kathleen aside, Sophia is just as bad as Abel, and Felicia herself is looking to profit off and gain sexual gratification from the club.

Even Victoria, who is venerated as a saint by the player character, turned to sex work not out of pure desperation, but to maintain a comfortable life that many people will never experience. That's not to malign sex work either, far from it, it's to illustrate there's granularity beyond what you purport to be "one of the biggest problem in the west."
 
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cheesetriangles

cheesetriangles

Member
Jul 9, 2020
181
418
The person actually being paid to have sex during the entire plotline is Edwin. This is just more men want have sex with every girl and call us whores if we sleep anyone that isn’t you.
 
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DarkLords00

New Member
Nov 23, 2022
11
47
It's kind of funny how even in a porn game site this discourse still appears.

Who even is a morally upstanding person in this game?

The carnations are all using the club to solve their own problems. Even if some are more symapthetic than others. They are still selling themselves on the hope that the club can fix their life issues.

The club owners hace zero disregard for the safety and wellbeing of their workers. They see them as simple tools to be use and discarded if they no longer can profit from them. (Remember Warren conversation about the pregnant lady?)

Edwin's mother decided to sell her body instead of changing her son life radically, and by a cruel or ironic twist of fate it ended up affecting his life regardless.

Hana goes along in what Kathleen and August ask of her in the hopes of helping her mother with the slim chance of maybe changing the work situation of the workers. Even if it leads nowhere and she herself realises she is being used by both of them and realises how effed up the situation is for everyone.

Mina does not have many doubts of jumping from her shit boyfriend to said boyfriend bestfriend.

Warren is physical and probably pshycohlogically abusive too. Hell, even Jacob despite him being an upstanding dude still works here and profits from it.


And finally, Killian and Edwin are 2 man-whores that enjoy the benefits of working in the club, with pretty much no drawback(if you consider lying to Victoria a drawback).

Really, everyone here is a morally compromised individual, some more than orthers obviously, but it doesn't change the fact that most characters are guilty of some kind of wrongdoing.
 
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Takkatakka

Takkatakka

Engaged Member
Nov 11, 2022
2,917
9,186
endless1m said:
No offense TD, but this about sums up one of biggest problems in the west right now.
All men bad,
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Buddy, if you actually think the "overly positive depiction of women in fiction" is one of the "biggest problems in the west right now"... :ROFLMAO:

And for PC:

The - so far - main villain is a woman. And of course the Carnations have to be painted somewhat symptomatic or the story wouldn't work. The player is supposed to emphasis with them and like them. If the player doesn't like any of them or - even worse - hates them, then the whole story structure would be pointless. Also the overall setting of the game also means that most of the "audience" of the events can't be painted in the best of lights either. That doesn't mean all the guys in the game a assholes, but a lot simply have to be, because that is part of the story that is told.
 
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TD1900

TD1900

#701
Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
786
7,232
endless1m said:
it sounded to me like "its very important to me, to never appear to cast a bad light on problematic female sexual behaviour or sexworkers, but men are free game, especially their problematic sexual behaviour"

now I know that you are super talented in wording your sentences, so I doubted I misunderstood it, but still maybe I took it for more than it meant

...

and now I don't want to distract you any longer from enjoying your release and hopefully some satisfaction and joy with it. and maybe some relaxation =)

good fortune !
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but in greater context that highlighted line was in response to the whole "women are locks, men are lock picks" thing that values men for sleeping around and devalues women for doing the same - which is just an asinine double standard, especially on a porn forum. The entire paragraph above that line ran contrary to your "women are wonderful" inference. And I certainly believe you can find examples from the story that runs contrary to that too.

At any rate, thank you for the well wishes. If you play, I hope you will enjoy the update.

In two weeks of course, because we definitely won't leak immediately.
 
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kumenl0l

Member
Mar 21, 2020
250
700
I'm really torn on this one. On one hand, I really hope someone leaks the update early, and at the same time, I really don't. TD, GIL, you do amazing work.
 
Zareem

Zareem

Active Member
May 20, 2017
647
954
Priority access for Ch4Up2 is now available for the Club Owner owner tier.

Everyone
Changelog:
-2,069 static images
-63 animations
-54,657 words
- 6 new musical tracks
- Significant club content featuring 4 branching scenes depending on who lost week 2’s exhibition. Unlocking one will unlock the other 3 in the scene replay gallery for those who don’t want to go through the pain in the ass of manipulating an entire week’s worth of choices.
- Significant Mina content, with branches of varying lengths depending on whether you rejected/she cheated on Ian, as well as your relationship status with Hana.

Get it here:
You must be registered to see the links
 
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sunaboz

sunaboz

Member
Donor
Jun 25, 2018
467
1,663
IMO it's the best update so far. It has everything and the pacing is just perfect. Previous one was too monotonous for my taste but this one has so many great scenes that it's hard for me to decide which one is the best. Every render is meaningful, there is no waste here. And the story comes down together nicely, it shows that TD has a clear goal and the dots are being connected in a logical way.

Even disregarding erotic aspect it has some really interesting plot points, we learn some juicy details about certain individuals and cards are laid down on the table. The amount of honesty we're getting here is very refreshing and enjoyable (at least to me). When it comes to graphics GIL has once again surpassed himself but I won't spoil your fun and post examples, at least not until it will be out for everyone.

tl;dr
10/10 update
 
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I

imagica

Member
May 2, 2020
145
255
sunaboz said:
IMO it's the best update so far. It has everything and the pacing is just perfect. Previous one was too monotonous for my taste but this one has so many great scenes that it's hard for me to decide which one is the best. Every render is meaningful, there is no waste here. And the story comes down together nicely, it shows that TD has a clear goal and the dots are being connected in a logical way.

Even disregarding erotic aspect it has some really interesting plot points, we learn some juicy details about certain individuals and cards are laid down on the table. The amount of honesty we're getting here is very refreshing and enjoyable (at least to me). When it comes to graphics GIL has once again surpassed himself but I won't spoil your fun and post examples, at least not until it will be out for everyone.

tl;dr
10/10 update
Click to expand...
You finished it in 10 minutes or what? How are you guys so fast.
 
N

Needvdate

Member
Oct 16, 2017
156
154
Zareem said:
Priority access for Ch4Up2 is now available for the Club Owner owner tier.

Everyone
Changelog:
-2,069 static images
-63 animations
-54,657 words
- 6 new musical tracks
- Significant club content featuring 4 branching scenes depending on who lost week 2’s exhibition. Unlocking one will unlock the other 3 in the scene replay gallery for those who don’t want to go through the pain in the ass of manipulating an entire week’s worth of choices.
- Significant Mina content, with branches of varying lengths depending on whether you rejected/she cheated on Ian, as well as your relationship status with Hana.

Get it here:
You must be registered to see the links
Click to expand...
You posting it?
 
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4.90 star(s) 498 Votes