TD1900

#701
Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
747
6,584
To be honest, I'm a little disappointed that all the girls in this game are complete whores. Even cute Mina is also a whore. It would be better if Mina remained a gentle sweet girl for a romantic relationship in order to diversify the casts of characters and give MC hope that not all girls are whores and his mother really could not find the best way out of a difficult situation and did everything against her will for the sake of her beloved son.
The Carnations aside, if Mina and Hana fit your definition of a whore and that's all you're getting there, I think you will continue to be disappointed by what the story is clumsily trying to portray. And that's okay, you can keep masturbating to the whores, but just know you are unlikely to find satisfaction in this area by the project's end.

I try to cultivate a certain voice with my writing. If that voice caused you a knee-jerk reaction (e.g. SJW? REEEEEEE!), I think that says more about you than it does me.
I appreciate you taking the time to discuss and for staying on topic. Unfortunately, some people rather address an imaginary caricature when they read certain phrasing rather than the actual content of a post. I would've just thrown up my hands by now.
 

EvolutionKills

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2021
1,101
3,579
I would've just thrown up my hands by now.
To be fair, I am having good fun. I also had to fire up the game again just to double check that my recollection of the events wasn't off (e.g. Chuck's text to Edwin before meeting Rosalind for the first time), and that's got me jonesing to do another play through again.

Plus I feel like a huge douche-canoe for getting caught up in the moment with both Hana and then Mina, so I kinda need to go back and correct that before it inevitably blows up in Edwin's face. I love that this game makes me care enough to do that, that I feel genuine guilt and remorse over how I've treated these characters.
 
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lubering

Member
Sep 12, 2022
143
272
The Carnations aside, if Mina and Hana fit your definition of a whore and that's all you're getting there, I think you will continue to be disappointed by what the story is clumsily trying to portray. And that's okay, you can keep masturbating to the whores, but just know you are unlikely to find satisfaction in this area by the project's end.
Ok ok, not whores but too slutty girls, maybe I used the word "whores" in relation to Mina and Hana in the wrong way. And I enjoy the game exactly what I expected, but as always it wants more. For Mina, I’ll say that it would be better if she remained a nice girl for romantic relations without obsession with sex pleasure, this would distinguish her from other girls, and so she is practically no different. Well, many people like Mina not because of her character, but only because of her cute face, if she could look like, for example, Ian's nanny Alice, would Mina be so popular?
 

dolfe67

Forum Fanatic
Apr 25, 2020
4,641
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Ok ok, not whores but too slutty girls, maybe I used the word "whores" in relation to Mina and Hana in the wrong way. And I enjoy the game exactly what I expected, but as always it wants more. For Mina, I’ll say that it would be better if she remained a nice girl for romantic relations without obsession with sex pleasure, this would distinguish her from other girls, and so she is practically no different. Well, many people like Mina not because of her character, but only because of her cute face, if she could look like, for example, Ian's nanny Alice, would Mina be so popular?
If your kink is "pure", innocent and sexually inexperienced girls, you won't find that in this game.
 

TD1900

#701
Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
747
6,584
For Mina, I’ll say that it would be better if she remained a nice girl for romantic relations without obsession with sex pleasure, this would distinguish her from other girls, and so she is practically no different.
I understand where you're coming from. A straightforward romance without the porn conceits would support the push and pull of deciding to leave the club or not by the story's end, but we are a porn game and many roads lead to Rome. Mina's current character does have a purpose in a greater context. How well executed that will turn out remains to be seen, but I'm confident that her only distinguishing feature isn't just hurr durr dick.

And honestly, how does liking and wanting to explore sex disqualify you from being a sweet and nice person? Now, you can argue that cheating on your maid-plowing boyfriend might, but that has clearly been open to discussion.
 

Zod666

Member
Nov 1, 2020
117
218
Loads of Images missing in last scene with Able, anyone has same problem?
Not that important, but still a bit annoying.
 

TD1900

#701
Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
747
6,584
Loads of Images missing in last scene with Able, anyone has same problem?
Not that important, but still a bit annoying.
Are you using a walkthrough mod? I'm thinking you might've had the early release version before we added to that scene, but replaced it with the new script via the mod. So you wouldn't have the images it's calling for.
 

lubering

Member
Sep 12, 2022
143
272
I understand where you're coming from. A straightforward romance without the porn conceits would support the push and pull of deciding to leave the club or not by the story's end, but we are a porn game and many roads lead to Rome. Mina's current character does have a purpose in a greater context. How well executed that will turn out remains to be seen, but I'm confident that her only distinguishing feature isn't just hurr durr dick.

And honestly, how does liking and wanting to explore sex disqualify you from being a sweet and nice person? Now, you can argue that cheating on your maid-plowing boyfriend might, but that has clearly been open to discussion.
The more variety, the more people will be interested in the project, the greater the benefits for you. But this is not my story and it is not for me to write it.
 

Zod666

Member
Nov 1, 2020
117
218
Mina is different, she's the only main heroine that is a slut by choice.
Not only that, she is your slut by choice. She is a really goodhearted and nice person that just lets it go with you.
There are enough of slow burn hand holding romance games out there, needs more live out your dark fantasies with someone you care for types of games imo. And Mina is perfect for it, sweet curious girl that want to experience new kinks with MC.
 
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EvolutionKills

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2021
1,101
3,579
I wrote the first post where I called all the girls in this game whores, but they began to convince me that I was wrong. Now you're telling me that I was right and all girls are whores. :unsure:
Or, and hear me out here, it's not a case of just one or the other.

People are complex. Mina being sexually adventurous does not make her a whore, but she sure isn't a virgin either; and that is perfectly normal. She is a relatively young and inexperienced sexual partner, but she's looking to spread her wings for adventure, and is hoping that Edwin is willing to go on that journey with her. Mina is an absolute peach, she doesn't need to be a virgin or act virginal. She's allowed to let her freak-flag fly freely with whomever she is comfortable enough to do so.

These characters exist across the spectrum of experiences and motivations, and branding all of them with any singular label is probably going to do them a disservice.
 

TD1900

#701
Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
747
6,584
Should we consider it canon then that Rose is "coerced" during her first meeting with Edwin and there's a "breach of trust" between them there? Also, her predicament is "unearned circumstances.".
You can read, interpret, and discuss the text however you like. The fun thing I've learned from seeing our project discuss over the past three years is that people have wildly different and valid takes on the scenario. Sure, I have my own reading of the morality and culpability the characters share in the story, but authorial intent is bullshit. It's not my place to comment on that.

What you quoted is only me thinking it's pretty crappy to reduce someone's take down to a Boogeyman of generalizations and personal attacks just because of sensitivity over certain commonly used phrases and ideas.
 

EvolutionKills

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2021
1,101
3,579
at first i considered ignoring your continuing insults and just reply to some of your legit points... but then i realized I HAVE A BINGO!!


View attachment 2582532


also, have you considered that you might be a cuck?
I mean, maybe check your reading comprehension there?

I mean, are you a supremely insecure? Cause you sound like it, but I don't know for sure. It's meant to illustrate the line of thinking that you're espousing, one that appears to feel threatened by a girl hanging out with a guy friend who isn't their partner.

Now you could try to clarify things, maybe try to better express you point. Maybe you're just not as skilled at getting your point across in words. But nope, that was giving you too much credit it seems.
 

Pr0GamerJohnny

Forum Fanatic
Sep 7, 2022
5,324
7,591
I appreciate you taking the time to discuss and for staying on topic. Unfortunately, some people rather address an imaginary caricature when they read certain phrasing rather than the actual content of a post. I would've just thrown up my hands by now.
This cuts both ways though, and such is one of my chief complaints of that group (oh no I'm participating in it now! :confused: ).
It's this simplistic binary view of the world, and I fear you're almost falling into that trap here.

I try to cultivate a certain voice with my writing. If that voice caused you a knee-jerk reaction (e.g. SJW? REEEEEEE!), I think that says more about you than it does me.

That's not even remotely close to what I'm doing. I'm trying to point out how context matters, something you seem to conveniently forget or ignore when it's not conducive to the point you're trying to argue. The game is a complex mural of ethical dilemmas and choices, and someone running around going 'they're all just whores' as a blanket pejorative statement needs to be called out on their bullshit. Ditto when others ignore coercion and pretend like someone's trust isn't being violated.
By simplistic binary view; I mean you have a similiar kneejerk reaction to people disagreeing or reacting negatively to your tone. Unfortunately for that view, I don't fit that stereotype at all, without getting too political, I'm no friend of the rightwing-nutjobs or trumpers or all that stuff, I tend to be fairly moderate in politics and agree with dems on some things and repubs on others.

One of the reasons I've enjoyed these back and forths on this game over the past few thread pages is the variety of viewpoints expressed. Saying something like "someone needs to be called out on their bullshit" attempts to strengthen a "us vs them" coalition. It's an incubation of the worst parts of reddit and twitter. Do I agree with lubering back there? No, I didn't, and I expressed as much - but he had different views from antoniomontana who had different views from you who had different views from me, so on and so forth. That's what a healthy forum looks like (as long as everyone's polite).

I also had to fire up the game again just to double check that my recollection of the events wasn't off
Indeed, I've had to do the same, which perhaps means we've all wandered away from the story as it was written into a land of personal agendas, I know I have.

-edit:
You can read, interpret, and discuss the text however you like. The fun thing I've learned from seeing our project discuss over the past three years is that people have wildly different and valid takes on the scenario. Sure, I have my own reading of the morality and culpability the characters share in the story, but authorial intent is bullshit. It's not my place to comment on that.

What you quoted is only me thinking it's pretty crappy to reduce someone's take down to a Boogeyman of generalizations and personal attacks just because of sensitivity over certain commonly used phrases and ideas.
I enthusiastically liked everything about your response here and wholeheartedly agree, except for the last sentence, which risks betraying the uplifting yet neutral observer voice.
 
Last edited:

lubering

Member
Sep 12, 2022
143
272
Or, and hear me out here, it's not a case of just one or the other.

People are complex. Mina being sexually adventurous does not make her a whore, but she sure isn't a virgin either; and that is perfectly normal. She is a relatively young and inexperienced sexual partner, but she's looking to spread her wings for adventure, and is hoping that Edwin is willing to go on that journey with her. Mina is an absolute peach, she doesn't need to be a virgin or act virginal. She's allowed to let her freak-flag fly freely with whomever she is comfortable enough to do so.

These characters exist across the spectrum of experiences and motivations, and branding all of them with any singular label is probably going to do them a disservice.
I see no reason to continue this conversation.Sorry ;)
 
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