VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[RC-1138 Boss]

All valid possibilities considereing how out of context the quote may be.

 

[ename144]

I figured we wouldn't have another dev diary until next week, but apparently I was wrong!

Spoiler: Dev Diary 59

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As TD said, he and GIL have added 239 statics, 13 animations and 4539 words in the last two weeks. That's an average of roughly 1120 statics, 6.5 animations and 2270 words per week over that period; the overall average is roughly 120 statics, 2.8 animations and 3270 words per week since work on Chapter 4 Update 3 began, Here are the charts for Week 13(ish):

Spoiler: Charts To Finish Strong?

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As you can see, progress on statics and words remains fairly steady, while animation rate has jumped up significantly. That makes sense since we're presumably in the thick of Veronica's event so they're probably a top priority. Oddly we're still well below the animation count for Ch1 Updates 1&2, so I'm guessing Tuesday's activities are going to be less animated than the previous days.

If so, it sounds like we're probably looking at a mid-to-late August release if they decide to release the update before tackling Wednesday's activities. I've been assuming that will be the plan (since I'd expect Wednesday to match the current size of the update), but perhaps that won't be the case since TD is still mulling over the cutoff point.

I'm definitely eager to see Veronica's content so I certainly wouldn't complain about a less massive update in this case. Then again I'm also curious to see the likely events on Wednesday, too (particularly what our interactions with Felicia will be like if we aren't on her path), so it's not like I'm unwilling to wait for a bigger chunk of content. But for now we'll just have to keep waiting patiently and watch the numbers tick up until we know what the next move will be.

 

[TD1900]

Oddly we're still well below the animation count for Ch1 Updates 1&2, so I'm guessing Tuesday's activities are going to be less animated that the previous days.

To be perfectly clear, we're not too deep into stage 3 of Veronica's content.

There's still a lot of animations coming, including some that are already made, but we aren't counting in the totals yet. I don't think (with Tuesday alone) that we'll reach Ch4Up1/Up2 numbers, but it might come respectably close. As an aside, some of the animations might surprise people. GIL has dipped his toe into adding some animated flourishes outside of sex scenes, to awesome results.

 

[ename144]

To be perfectly clear, we're not too deep into stage 3 of Veronica's content.

There's still a lot of animations coming, including some that are already made, but we aren't counting in the totals yet. I don't think (with Tuesday alone) that we'll reach Ch4Up1/Up2 numbers, but it might come respectably close. As an aside, some of the animations might surprise people. GIL has dipped his toe into adding some animated flourishes outside of sex scenes, to awesome results.

Interesting. We're currently at 56% of Chapter 4 Update 1's animation count (not counting any unregistered completions). We're closing ground at ~10.5% per week thanks to the recent growth spurt. So we're still a couple weeks out from what I'd put as the ballpark "respectably close" zone. Not that I'd mind winding up shy of that mark; the game was great even before it added animations, and Ch4 Up3 already has a solid render count and conspicuously high number of words. Plus, 'animations' are a notoriously fungible metric since a given animation can vary widely by length. The important thing is that the update delivers on story, character and sexiness. Animations aren't the only - or even necessarily the best - tool in the toolbox when it comes to meeting those needs.

In fact, I have to admit I'm a little skeptical about adding non-sex animations. They can certainly be a good thing in the right circumstances, but I've seen so many games lose their mind trying to animate utterly trivial details to no real effect beyond ballooning the development time (*cough* BaDIK *cough*cough*). You'd think they were trying to make an animated movie rather than a visual novel.

I don't mean to sound as insulting as I probably do here; you two have done an excellent job making the visuals serve the game's needs so if you say the non-sex animations are worth adding, I believe you. I'm not even sure how long the animations take to create in HS vs a 3D rendering engine. It's basically just a kneejerk reaction on my part. But I'd be lying if I said my eyebrow didn't raise when I read it.

 

[TD1900]

In fact, I have to admit I'm a little skeptical about adding non-sex animations. They can certainly be a good thing in the right circumstances, but I've seen so many games lose their mind trying to animate utterly trivial details to no real effect beyond ballooning the development time (*cough* BaDIK *cough*cough*). You'd think they were trying to make an animated movie rather than a visual novel.

Eh, I tend not to like them either tbh.

For one, with animations that don't loop, it plays against the strengths of the medium. Namely, the precise marriage of text and images. Being able to break up lines and thoughts across different camera angles and other visual punctuation gives you way more narrative control than playing an animation, having it mismatched with player's reading speeds, and necessitating a player wait for it to be done before they can click-to-continue.

There's also the question of execution, because development time aside, they usually don't even look very good. Sex is a relatively simple act, yet animating it to look natural is difficult enough. More complicated, full-body animations is a whole other undertaking and tend to just look unnatural and jarring. Additionally, I can also think of a few examples that have caused me to roll my eyes ("Take it easy, Stanley Kubrick") as the result of unnatural camera dolly/crane-type movements. Like you more or less said, some people forget that they're a visual novel.

Of course, learning new things is half the fun of this job in my opinion, so I'm not going to deride anyone for going out of their comfort zone and attempting something difficult or new, but you can lose sight of the big picture. Keeping things in perspective is one of the most important skills for a lone (or two man) developer in my opinion. Balancing your financial goals against your creative ones, your project's quality vs the time you want to deliver it in, what works for you versus how effective it is for your audience, and keeping in mind why you're doing it in the first place is a lot of balls in the air. In the case of BaDIK, when you're making that kind of money, I suppose things get a lot more freeing if your highest priority is your own sense of quality.

Uh, random tangent aside, trust me when I say it's nothing like you fear in our case. I tried to be exact when I called them flourishes. They're used very sparing and thoughtfully timed to add punch to specific key moments.

However, I would say that myself, wouldn't it?

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Sex is a relatively simple act, yet animating it to look natural is difficult enough. More complicated, full-body animations is a whole other undertaking and tend to just look unnatural and jarring. Additionally, I can also think of a few examples that have caused me to roll my eyes ("Take it easy, Stanley Kubrick") as the result of unnatural camera dolly/crane-type movements. Like you more or less said, some people forget that they're a visual novel.

Yep, this. Anyone who's done animation knows that day-to-day non repetitive motions are HARD. Final boss challenge is like making a full-body dancing animation that's not just twerking or gyrating. I don't think I've ever seen an adult game with realistic dancing.

The most common offender of #2 is the pause-circlepan-resume. Everytime I see that I see a masturbatory exercise for the developer (bonus -points if it's unskippable, holding the captive audience hostage).

Smart devs realize they're not trying to compete with top industry animators at EA, Blizzard, or Respawn etc. They focus on giving us something we CANT see with the others; semi realistic sex animations.



One thing I'll give more credit to PC than other devs/games is the shot direction. Too often in porn games there isn't actually much porn. By that I mean theyll have concealed penetration, or awkward angles etc. Porn isn't supposed to look like real people having sex, it's supposed to show the viewer those people having sex. Off the top of my head two examples of good shot direction/framing in PC are the felicia post truth/dare couch bj/facefuck; with her head and expression in the frame, and the veronica photoshoot bj where it's a low angle behind mc while hes stroking himself in her mouth.

 

[TD1900]

One thing I'll give more credit to PC than other devs/games is the shot direction. Too often in porn games there isn't actually much porn. By that I mean theyll have concealed penetration, or awkward angles etc. Porn isn't supposed to look like real people having sex, it's supposed to show the viewer those people having sex.

As the Romans said, memento porni. Remember that you (have to) porn.

 

[rippertipper]

Uh, random tangent aside, trust me when I say it's nothing like you fear in our case. I tried to be exact when I called them flourishes. They're used very sparing and thoughtfully timed to add punch to specific key moments.

However, I would say that myself, wouldn't it?

Hell yeah. Dope. That's the sort of specific animation type I was more hoping for. I always appreciate when something special is used sparingly to better maintain it's special status. I think having the entire human stream of consciousness, via the internet, at our fingertips has made a lot of people (myself as a writer included a lot of the time) forget the old adage "less is more." Either way, ya got me hyped.

 

[cumsumnida]

Interesting. We're currently at 56% of Chapter 4 Update 1's animation count (not counting any unregistered completions). We're closing ground at ~10.5% per week thanks to the recent growth spurt. So we're still a couple weeks out from what I'd put as the ballpark "respectably close" zone. Not that I'd mind winding up shy of that mark; the game was great even before it added animations, and Ch4 Up3 already has a solid render count and conspicuously high number of words. Plus, 'animations' are a notoriously fungible metric since a given animation can vary widely by length. The important thing is that the update delivers on story, character and sexiness. Animations aren't the only - or even necessarily the best - tool in the toolbox when it comes to meeting those needs.

In fact, I have to admit I'm a little skeptical about adding non-sex animations. They can certainly be a good thing in the right circumstances, but I've seen so many games lose their mind trying to animate utterly trivial details to no real effect beyond ballooning the development time (*cough* BaDIK *cough*cough*). You'd think they were trying to make an animated movie rather than a visual novel.

I don't mean to sound as insulting as I probably do here; you two have done an excellent job making the visuals serve the game's needs so if you say the non-sex animations are worth adding, I believe you. I'm not even sure how long the animations take to create in HS vs a 3D rendering engine. It's basically just a kneejerk reaction on my part. But I'd be lying if I said my eyebrow didn't raise when I read it.

Given the assets, some anime-ish animations could be nice.
Or maybe it’s just animation of the MC setting something on fire.

 

[dolfe67]

I prefer way more several still shots than bad or even average animations

 

[misfolk]

Eh, I tend not to like them either tbh.

For one, with animations that don't loop, it plays against the strengths of the medium. Namely, the precise marriage of text and images. Being able to break up lines and thoughts across different camera angles and other visual punctuation gives you way more narrative control than playing an animation, having it mismatched with player's reading speeds, and necessitating a player wait for it to be done before they can click-to-continue.

I agree. There's a certain highly rated sci-fi AVN that does a couple of porn animations and a regular animated scene in every release. The latter often feels more like a flex than a useful narrative device, "look, I can make them act and talk like it's Mass Effect, I'm not someone who only can make them moan and bump uglies".

There's a different highly-rated urban fantasy AVN that uses much worse-looking animations, but uses them better, when there's a pivotal action scene it wants the player to pause for.

 

[Biscardone]

I agree. There's a certain highly rated sci-fi AVN that does a couple of porn animations and a regular animated scene in every release. The latter often feels more like a flex than a useful narrative device, "look, I can make them act and talk like it's Mass Effect, I'm not someone who only can make them moan and bump uglies".

There's a different highly-rated urban fantasy AVN that uses much worse-looking animations, but uses them better, when there's a pivotal action scene it wants the player to pause for.

I think the main issue here is the repetitiveness of the same animations. A still image is obviously an abstraction of reality, especially when we're dealing with a still of a person: the person is not frozen in space and time, but we've chosen how to represent them in a particular moment. As we do with written word, our imagination fills the gap. On the contrary, an animation is usually meant to represent movement as-is, and that's where repetitiveness kicks in. A flourish used sparingly should avoid this issue altogether.

 

[Takkatakka]

I prefer way more several still shots than bad or even average animations

I think it has to be used sparingly. Caribdis has a few animations here and there in very specific situations as well, like the outside rushing by, while the MC sits in a driving car for example.

Also GIL's style already "pretends" animation a lot more than most other VN developers by using small alterations between renders to give them the impression of fluid motion, so they really only need animation is very specific scenes, I would think.

 

[moseph jonstein]

Is there an android version with the walkthrough/cheat mod?

 

[SteamedHamsInc.]

Don't know if this has been discussed already, but as PC is a Honey Select game, thought it fitting to mention it here.

Illusion Studios, the studio behind Honey Select, Biko, Requiem Hurts, Sexy Beach, SchooMate, Koikatsu, etc., is shutting down and discontinuing all activity, including sales, by the end of August this year.

Illusion is probably the premier developer of 3D erotic games in not just Japan but the world, and has been for the past 20 years. In fact, I can't think of a single other studio that has as much revolutionary influence and continued output on the scale that it has in the eroge industry when it comes to pushing the boundaries of 3D graphics, animation, interactivity. And not to mention their nearly unparalleled presence in character creation systems. The pervasive use of HS and HS2 for games developed on f95 alone speaks to how far Illusion's influence reaches.

RIP Illusion, the industry lost one of its most iconic studios, and will leave behind a void that may never be filled..

 

[meiguoselang]

I prefer way more several still shots than bad or even average animations

Agreed, the effect is poor and takes up a lot of space

 

[Iamthegoldengod]

Is there an android version with the walkthrough/cheat mod?

I just used Joiplay to play the PC version on my phone and overwrote game with walk-through mod and it works. UI is very well designed even in joiplay. Dark Assassin also has an android port with walk-through mod. You should find it in his blogspot site. Lmk if you can't find it.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Don't know if this has been discussed already, but as PC is a Honey Select game, thought it fitting to mention it here.

Illusion Studios, the studio behind Honey Select, Biko, Requiem Hurts, Sexy Beach, SchooMate, Koikatsu, etc., is shutting down and discontinuing all activity, including sales, by the end of August this year.

Illusion is probably the premier developer of 3D erotic games in not just Japan but the world, and has been for the past 20 years. In fact, I can't think of a single other studio that has as much revolutionary influence and continued output on the scale that it has in the eroge industry when it comes to pushing the boundaries of 3D graphics, animation, interactivity. And not to mention their nearly unparalleled presence in character creation systems. The pervasive use of HS and HS2 for games developed on f95 alone speaks to how far Illusion's influence reaches.

RIP Illusion, the industry lost one of its most iconic studios, and will leave behind a void that may never be filled..

I'd say that largely depends on art style preference. I can't imagine too many expressionist painters/enthusiasts cried when Renoir died.

 

[TD1900]

Don't know if this has been discussed already, but as PC is a Honey Select game, thought it fitting to mention it here.

Illusion Studios, the studio behind Honey Select, Biko, Requiem Hurts, Sexy Beach, SchooMate, Koikatsu, etc., is shutting down and discontinuing all activity, including sales, by the end of August this year.

Illusion is probably the premier developer of 3D erotic games in not just Japan but the world, and has been for the past 20 years. In fact, I can't think of a single other studio that has as much revolutionary influence and continued output on the scale that it has in the eroge industry when it comes to pushing the boundaries of 3D graphics, animation, interactivity. And not to mention their nearly unparalleled presence in character creation systems. The pervasive use of HS and HS2 for games developed on f95 alone speaks to how far Illusion's influence reaches.

RIP Illusion, the industry lost one of its most iconic studios, and will leave behind a void that may never be filled..

Yeah, it's sad.

Games like Sexy Beach 3, Yuusha, and Rapelay opened my eyes to a whole other breed of h-game during the hongfire days. I'm not one to get sentimental, especially since Illusion was always a 1 step forward - 2 steps back sort of company, but they obviously hold a special place in my heart. This project aside, which has enriched my life, GIL is a dear friend of mine who has helped me weather real life woes big and small, like the passing of my father. If it wasn't for our shared enthusiasm of using their products to make shitty web comics, we never would've crossed paths.

So, yeah. RIP and thank you, Illusion.

 

[Garen]

Don't know if this has been discussed already, but as PC is a Honey Select game, thought it fitting to mention it here.

Illusion Studios, the studio behind Honey Select, Biko, Requiem Hurts, Sexy Beach, SchooMate, Koikatsu, etc., is shutting down and discontinuing all activity, including sales, by the end of August this year.

Illusion is probably the premier developer of 3D erotic games in not just Japan but the world, and has been for the past 20 years. In fact, I can't think of a single other studio that has as much revolutionary influence and continued output on the scale that it has in the eroge industry when it comes to pushing the boundaries of 3D graphics, animation, interactivity. And not to mention their nearly unparalleled presence in character creation systems. The pervasive use of HS and HS2 for games developed on f95 alone speaks to how far Illusion's influence reaches.

RIP Illusion, the industry lost one of its most iconic studios, and will leave behind a void that may never be filled..

RIP
Artifical Academy was a personal favourite. I remember making physical notes of the girls' preferences and scribbling over it in class ready to get back to it once I got back home.


(lmao didn't even know what a screenshot was back then)