VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Takkatakka]

Might it be that Sophia is Abel´s secret daughter?

That was my first thought as well, but considering what she already subjected herself to in the club, I kinda doubt Abel would let that happen, if she would be his daughter.

Then again...both might be psychopaths...so who is to say what they find acceptable or not.

 

[BrockLanders]

No and as far as we know at the very least incest is off the table...which I'm glad about personally.

Agreed.

Maybe it's just me, but as someone that doesn't shy away from the tag, I hate seeing it shoveled into otherwise good eVNs. I don't know which would be worse - Edwin having a 'landlady' or schtupping his mother in a completely out-of-character lapse in perspective. It works in games like Ripples because of plot device (i predict!), Chasing Sunsets in their relational conflict, and Desert Stalker's world-building. It's baked in to each of them.

Here, Edwin has rebalanced himself. He's not at odds with anything until he's confronted with his past. Yet he is solid in his belief that his mother is not just a sexual object. Yes, it might be fun to think about a corruption storyline or something, but it can't really make sense if there's no real expectation developed in the story. Victoria wears a towel, and we know she's a little lonely. But that's not enough to paint her as a sexually charged deviant that just needs one whiff of Kathy's hawt bewbs to lose control on her son. (Ian's Mom, however, is getting face-fucked by MC or I riot.) And I think the only real reason anyone with an inkling of desire to see the incest tag applied is because we've seen her naked during her pornographic exploits. It's just a fantasy. It doesn't really belong in this eVN without rewriting the relationships built before we pick up with our hero at the start.

I feel like Victoria's past has been woven into the narrative for the benefit of the reader. I think she's there as an instrument for our own self-reflection. What would we do for our children? What would you feel if you found out that's what a parent did for you? She's in the plot to remind Edwin that his mother is not who he sees when he watches her videos. She is a human being who has also been a sex worker and not the opposite. We see him have the option to treat the ladies at the club like human beings rather than sex workers through dialogue, and the story seems to favor doing that. Maybe Edwin doesn't do this if Killian became a greater influence on him than her.

Incest is not on the table for Edwin, but it's obvious that the oedipal conversation is part of dealing with simply having parents and realizing at some point they are also sexual beings. I think about what it would take to have a taboo relationship feel normal, and short of a zombie apocalypse or the

You must be registered to see the links

, there's not many situations where it could really be rationalized (and be interesting, too).

 

[DirtyMario]

Hi! It is not only that which sets Sophia and Abel apart from the other side or characters of some importance.
- So far, only the most important characters showed on the scene switch wallpapers, Abel and more so Sophia, since she is the focus of the pic, are the exceptions.
View attachment 3035832

- Sophia, as cold and calculating she is, did not need to involve herself during the blue room "movie event". She could have literally sat it out, but she chose to get involved with the MC then.

- Coming back to your point about the similar style, there is a scene during "Abel´s home invasion" where he and Sophia have exactly the same posture and even look similar (obvious differences like gender/age aside). Might it be that Sophia is Abel´s secret daughter?

Everything's possible. Sophia has a stereotypical swedish last name and Abels name seems to be more dutch. But that may as well be an oversight.
I just know I have to conquer her frozen heart!

 

[Takkatakka]

Incest is not on the table for Edwin

Yeah, at least so far the only way I could potentially see Edwin and Victoria fuck without breaking both characters completely would be if the get drugged or somehow tricked, but not as a deliberate and consensual decision from both of them.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

So anyone knows how many times does that make that some incest obssessed forumite came here asking for something that is never going to happen?

 

[Bill Temple]

Might it be that Sophia is Abel´s secret daughter?

Or clone?
He can just replace the Y-chromosome with another copy of his X, and voila girl clone.

Agreed.

Maybe it's just me, but as someone that doesn't shy away from the tag, I hate seeing it shoveled into otherwise good eVNs. I don't know which would be worse - Edwin having a 'landlady' or schtupping his mother in a completely out-of-character lapse in perspective. It works in games like Ripples because of plot device (i predict!), Chasing Sunsets in their relational conflict, and Desert Stalker's world-building. It's baked in to each of them.

Here, Edwin has rebalanced himself. He's not at odds with anything until he's confronted with his past. Yet he is solid in his belief that his mother is not just a sexual object. Yes, it might be fun to think about a corruption storyline or something, but it can't really make sense if there's no real expectation developed in the story. Victoria wears a towel, and we know she's a little lonely. But that's not enough to paint her as a sexually charged deviant that just needs one whiff of Kathy's hawt bewbs to lose control on her son. (Ian's Mom, however, is getting face-fucked by MC or I riot.) And I think the only real reason anyone with an inkling of desire to see the incest tag applied is because we've seen her naked during her pornographic exploits. It's just a fantasy. It doesn't really belong in this eVN without rewriting the relationships built before we pick up with our hero at the start.

I feel like Victoria's past has been woven into the narrative for the benefit of the reader. I think she's there as an instrument for our own self-reflection. What would we do for our children? What would you feel if you found out that's what a parent did for you? She's in the plot to remind Edwin that his mother is not who he sees when he watches her videos. She is a human being who has also been a sex worker and not the opposite. We see him have the option to treat the ladies at the club like human beings rather than sex workers through dialogue, and the story seems to favor doing that. Maybe Edwin doesn't do this if Killian became a greater influence on him than her.

Incest is not on the table for Edwin, but it's obvious that the oedipal conversation is part of dealing with simply having parents and realizing at some point they are also sexual beings. I think about what it would take to have a taboo relationship feel normal, and short of a zombie apocalypse or the

You must be registered to see the links

, there's not many situations where it could really be rationalized (and be interesting, too).

I agree with all that, but isn't Westermarck the opposite of taboo relationships feeling normal? It's the effect that children raised together regardless of familial relationships tend to have a psychological aversion to romantic feelings for each other.

 

[Takkatakka]

So anyone knows how many times does that make that some incest obssessed forumite came here asking for something that is never going to happen?

Yeah well...no matter how many female characters there are in a game the MC can hook up with, if there is one at least half decent looking one the MC can't fuck there will always be people whining about that.

 

[Bill Temple]

So anyone knows how many times does that make that some incest obssessed forumite came here asking for something that is never going to happen?

To be fair, he didn't ask specifically about incest.

Nothing with the Mom? Literally the only thing this game is missing

It's a reasonable inference, but we don't have enough evidence to bring charges at this time.

 

[Turret]

That was my first thought as well, but considering what she already subjected herself to in the club, I kinda doubt Abel would let that happen, if she would be his daughter.
Then again...both might be psychopaths...so who is to say what they find acceptable or not.

When we really look at it halfway the same as Sophia would do, she has not subjected herself to something in the club much. The one standout thing is the gangbang and it becomes quite clear the longer the game goes on, that this was most likely a selftest. Especially as Sophia wore a "club uniform", so few people are in the know.
The chess games with Chuck are another thing, but I think this is a cold calculation at work. Sophia is obviously a far better player than Chuck is and Abel has a special disdain for him, there is 100% something else/further going on, beyond the bet.
Everything else is mostly insinuation, which might be false leads. Sophia unnerves even people like Kath, the MC is the first character not from Sophia and Abel´s direct orbit to click with her, I doubt many others in the club would try anything with her.

Everything's possible. Sophia has a stereotypical swedish last name and Abels name seems to be more dutch. But that may as well be an oversight.
I just know I have to conquer her frozen heart!

Going by last names, Sophia as you said sounds very much Swedish, but is also found in the US (hardly surprising with the immigration waves over the centuries), most of Scandinavia and Germany. Interestingly, one of the oldest mentionings of that family name is from northern Germany.
Van Doren is very much a Dutch name, but also found in the Rhineland and western lower Germany.

But I doubt that the last names play that big a role. No matter if Sophia is or is not Abel´s daughter, she will inherit his medical empire once he retires. and going by what we learned during the game, these two have their own goals and are at the Club only because of this. You might remember some of my posts about this, it is rather clear that Abel and Sophia loath the PC leadership and have enough influence to possess other options for their experiments. I theorise that they might be in deep cover for someone or on their own crusade, because what Abel and Sophia need, could be aquired elsewhere and with less blackmail potential.
To put it bluntly, Sophia and Abel could set up shop for unethical experiments in many third world countries without much problems. There have to be more reasons why they ended up at PC of all locations.

As for melting the ice around Sophia´s heart, I too am looking forward and hoping that we can do this in game some day. As said before, I hope we can get a romance(ing) path for Sophia!

 

[Takkatakka]

When we really look at it halfway the same as Sophia would do, she has not subjected herself to something in the club much. The one standout thing is the gangbang and it becomes quite clear the longer the game goes on, that this was most likely a selftest. Especially as Sophia wore a "club uniform", so few people are in the know.

But would Able just have all those pricks just fuck his daughter? I kinda doubt that.

 

[Maviarab]

Um...why can't I remember this Sophia ganbang....I feel, disappointed with myself.

 

[Ragnar]

What do we know about the next update? Characters? ETA?

Um...why can't I remember this Sophia ganbang....I feel, disappointed with myself.

Because it never happened. There is a Nyotaimori scene in which she has some liquid oozing from her pussy, but I doubt that was cum. Who would eat anything from the skin of a woman right after a gang bang? She was just high from the sex drug imo.

 

[DirtyMario]

The one standout thing is the gangbang and it becomes quite clear the longer the game goes on, that this was most likely a selftest. Especially as Sophia wore a "club uniform", so few people are in the know.

But would Able just have all those pricks just fuck his daughter? I kinda doubt that.

Um...why can't I remember this Sophia ganbang....I feel, disappointed with myself.

Because it never happened. There is a Nyotaimori scene in which she has some liquid oozing from her pussy, but I doubt that was cum. Who would eat anything from the skin of a woman right after a gang bang? She was just high from the sex drug imo.

Forgive my ignorance but was it ever officially established that it was her in that scene?
I've said it back then but I still believe it was just a model test or they made a random one that became a Patron favourite and got turned into Sophia.

 

[Ragnar]

Forgive my ignorance but was it ever officially established that it was her in that scene?
I've said it back then but I still believe it was just a model test or they made a random one that became a Patron favourite and got turned into Sophia.

Idk but I think it was Sophia because doctor Von Whatever is there watching. So probably the first field test for the formula. Trying it first with someone who is in the know is safer than risking some side effects on a club member or girl.

 

[Maviarab]

well that makes sense then....thought I'd missed something then. Now I'm even more disappointed

 

[Ottoeight]

Because it never happened. There is a Nyotaimori scene in which she has some liquid oozing from her pussy, but I doubt that was cum. Who would eat anything from the skin of a woman right after a gang bang? She was just high from the sex drug imo.

You see two really pleased patrons naked (the tenor and the bodybuilder actor if I remember well). First they ate, then they banged.

 

[Turret]

Forgive my ignorance but was it ever officially established that it was her in that scene?
I've said it back then but I still believe it was just a model test or they made a random one that became a Patron favourite and got turned into Sophia.

TD himself confirmed that it was Sophia in that scene, costumed like a house girl.

 

[Bill Temple]

Forgive my ignorance but was it ever officially established that it was her in that scene?
I've said it back then but I still believe it was just a model test or they made a random one that became a Patron favourite and got turned into Sophia.

TD told you it was.
https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-carnations-ch-4-update-3-mutt-jeff.50281/post-8565627

 

[Takkatakka]

TD told you it was.
https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-carnations-ch-4-update-3-mutt-jeff.50281/post-8565627

He even directly answered him.

 

[Ottoeight]

He even directly answered him.

Some people simply refuse to acknowledge what's happening in a story when the story's developments aren't what they foreshadowed.