VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Randomguy3478]

I mean this with no disresspect intended

You are respectful and its a pleasure to discuss with you this topic which I find interesting.

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I want to bring something that i didnt think it was necesary to mention but now i belive otherwise, the aparent (in my opinion) reason of why Felicia hates Elias and revels on his humilliation.

But first lets put into context something, this school was the most important thing for Felicia. For how she describes it was almost a refuge for her. This wasnt just "i want a dress or a car of an island" this was "please i want to save of the most important thing for me to no detriment of your own" and he said no for (as far as we know) no good reason. All her other luxuries pale in comparison to that moment and we know it because she is willing to risk that life of confort to make sure she is never in that situation. Its like if she cheated just once but with his father (if he was alive), it doesnt matter if it is just one time when the damage is inmense.

That explains why she wanted to enter the Carnation but not why she enjoys the humilliation of Ellias, it doenst explain the hatred. There is a reason why i brought the issue of respect, not only because is common sense that respect fosters healthy relationship of any type but because Felicia herself brings it up.

"I had no illusion of the nature of our relationship, but i foolishly thought that after some time, he might have the smallest amount of respect for me. Im... a fuckin' moron "

Felicia begged for that money, something she shouldnt had done in the first place but she did. Even as a trophy Elias must have known that it wasnt something she did lightly. But he didnt care and told her to know her place, he didnt have the minimum of respect for her. The breaking of their contract when it mattered the most and the complete lack of respect for her was what drove Felicia to seek both independence and revenge.

in other words is not

"Not caring about the most important thing of your spouse<----> Actively destroying the most important thing of your spouse"

but

"Refusing to save the most important thing in your spouses life despite her begging and pleading for it and instead scolding her for insisting on it"<----> Actively destroying the most important thing of your spouse"

There are those who think that choosing inaction (when one has the means to act) is a form of action, under that scope there is no difference between refusing to stop the destruction of something and actively destroying it.

Elias just doesn't care about felicia anymore (for reasons we don't know), and because of this he also doesn't care about her wish, no matter how important or not important it may be to her.

But not caring is something entirely different than wanting to see someone suffering.

Walking past a starving kid because you don't care is not the same as taking away its food because you want to see it starving.

Strongly disagree with you on that point.

Even if elias chose inaction because he wants to see felicia suffering it would still not be the same as intentionally acting to get the same result, although it would be way more similar. But that doesn't seem to be the case as felicia would have surely mentioned that in her rage.

 

[Randomguy3478]

Felicia:

"I'm smart."


Also Felicia:

- sacrifices everything in her life to become rich

- marries with a prenup

- risks everything for a sex-game with odds of 1/3

 

[MAGO-DAG]

God... it's been a week since they've been discussing the cuckold Elias and nymphomaniac Felicia...


We need to come up with a name for the couple discussion program: "You're wrong! Elias is kind. " "No, you're wrong! Felicia is innocent. "

 

[Randomguy3478]

bro, just find some space in between to declare who best girl is

or start an intersting topic. if its good i'll join

 

[MAGO-DAG]

bro, just find some space in between to declare who best girl is

or start an intersting topic. if its good i'll join

Best girl is Hana,(At least her understanding and her attitude towards Mc look hot and perfect) there is nothing to discuss here. It's just funny to read all day fights about Elias/Felicia, as if here relationship experts

 

[Ottoeight]

Best girl is Hana, there is nothing to discuss here. It's just funny to read all day fights about Elias/Felicia, as if here relationship experts

Well, this update is about her, so they're talking about her. They're like my father who always agrees with the last person he's speaking with (except me and my mother, of course).

I understand, so that means there is, it may be in the future...

How many times are we supposed to tell you newbies that the story - as the Authors told here - is going to end with the 4th exhibition day (therefore in 10 days)? we'll only have the epilogue(s) after that.

 

[MAGO-DAG]

Well, this update is about her, so they're talking about her. They're like my father who always agrees with the last person he's speaking with (except me and my mother, of course).





How many times are we supposed to tell you newbies that the story - as the Authors told here - is going to end with the 4th exhibition day (therefore in 10 days)? we'll only have the epilogue(s) after that.

Eh... I don't argue that this update is about HER. but such a rush between disputes and excuses is too much and funny

 

[Ottoeight]

Eh... I don't argue that this update is about HER. but such a rush between disputes and excuses is too much and funny

Well, previous update was about Veronica and we had a Veronica flood.

Just think about the bright side: no dudes asking for Victoria content or claiming that Sophia is the best match for Edwin.

 

[TD1900]

Anyway, I've been hearing from people that this game has heavy themes, how heavy can those themes be?

Let's say... a four out of ten, while putting most western AVNs at around a 2?
We are a fairly tame game, but your mileage will vary with the types of story you've exposed yourself to.

 

[BlenderGuy]

Which method of animation is this game created by? It's very different from Daz3d

 

[Idontplay]

If I'm not wrong they use Honey Select and Photoshop.

 

[Ottoeight]

Folks are arguing over a framing device for the pervy soap opera climax of Elias mugging at the screen while PC and/or his bff give his wife a good seeing to. Which we're all eagerly anticipating. None of this is how any of it'd play out in real life and neither of them are believable chars. But ya know, we can enjoy wolfing down a McBento without having to pretend it's the turnip-truffle carpaccio at L'Arpège. In fact trying to do so - at least for me - kills the vibe.

I'd add that we're playing these games because we want to see our favourite characters clean their pipes, so... who gives a damn about the fact that Elias is a cuck? that man is an asshole.

Let's say... a four out of ten, while putting most western AVNs at around a 2?
We are a fairly tame game, but your mileage will vary with the types of story you've exposed yourself to.

Bro, I have a couple of questions for you:

1. I'm seeing by looking at Mr Bubu's walkthrough (well, I didn't unpack and check the code) that neither the Edwin-Rose-Ian threesome nor the intimate scene with Lucy at the art exhibition add any Hana "cheating points"... is it a deliberate choice from you?

2. Will we see Jerrica & Spider again?

 

[Federok88]

You are respectful and its a pleasure to discuss with you this topic which I find interesting.

well im glad for that, it has been quite entertaining

I will just comment to one thing because i honestly think we reached an "agree to disagree" stalemate in all other points.

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In my opinion, causing harm withouth a motive. I think is very normal for people to want to cause suffering to those they feel wronged by, revenge is a common desire for humans. To me those that cause harm to strangers or love ones that have done nothing to them constitute as evil. There is also those that unleash indescriminate harm to a great number of people but thats more the realm of politicians, dictators and uncrupulous CEOs.

To go bring it back to the game, i think that Katheleen is evil. She enjoys toying and making people suffer for no other reason that she derives pleasure from it. There is no underlying motive or hatred towards the target. She looks for vulnerable people and exploits their weakness not only because of the money, like august, but because she enjoys the spectacle.

In other words is the motive (be it good or bad) behind the desire to cause harm that makes Felicia not evil from my point of view

 

[Turret]

no dudes asking for Victoria content or claiming that Sophia is the best match for Edwin.

Das können wir ändern, Chummer! That we can change, Chummer, definitely! At least for the second point, Vicki is more moral compass and drive for Edwin, her flashbacks enough for the story.
Sophia on the other hand is one of the best matches for Edwin, together with Hana and Felicia. Two puzzle pieces fitting well, both strong where the other is weaker. Two socially challenged nerds (her more than him), she eccentric, cool and amoral to the core, an end justifies the means genius girl. There is a reason our MC thinks "I didn´t expect that answer, especially not from her.", "Why did I find Sophia so easy to talk to?" andy why depending on our choices the socially blunt and near inept Sophia Lundgren leaves the MC´s flat with a smile and a "Have a nice afternoon, name". That is because for all the testing and manipulating two fitting nerds are getting aquainted. The Mc´s lid met a fitting pot.

Enough of that, now I await the "Sophia is bbbaaaddd" etc. arguments.

 

[beh123234]

C'mon. Turret enjoys talking about sophia, otto hates on people who want vicky incest, and I like to bash bad behaving fictional women.

I'm bored to hell, and talking about behaviour between the sexes is one of few topics still interesting to me. If anything its respect to TD.

But we can change topic to hanas ride with mina and discuss if mina or edwin had the cuter pussy back there...

Oh brother, this guy is still going on and on and on. How pathetic do you have to be to run to the community of a game specifically dedicated to degrading women just to have somebody, anybody, validate your contempt for women only to get absolutely ratioed. Give up and take the L man.

 

[Randomguy3478]

well im glad for that, it has been quite entertaining

I will just comment to one thing because i honestly think we reached an "agree to disagree" stalemate in all other points.

Yes. Still thanks. Your arguments made me think.

In my opinion, causing harm withouth a motive. I think is very normal for people to want to cause suffering to those they feel wronged by, revenge is a common desire for humans. To me those that cause harm to strangers or love ones that have done nothing to them constitute as evil. There is also those that unleash indescriminate harm to a great number of people but thats more the realm of politicians, dictators and uncrupulous CEOs.

To go bring it back to the game, i think that Katheleen is evil. She enjoys toying and making people suffer for no other reason that she derives pleasure from it. There is no underlying motive or hatred towards the target. She looks for vulnerable people and exploits their weakness not only because of the money, like august, but because she enjoys the spectacle.

In other words is the motive (be it good or bad) behind the desire to cause harm that makes Felicia not evil from my point of view

It's an important topic and it quickly turns to core beliefs about existence.

How I understand it: intentionally doing, saying, or thinking something that is bound up with greed, anger, or delusion will have dark results for you.
Intentionally doing, saying, or thinking something that is bound up with non-greed, non-anger, and non-delusion will have bright results for you.

Both kat and felicia act with at least greed and anger. Its difficult to say more without at least comparing one specific action. If hot searing anger is better than other forms of hate is beyond me, tbh. Surely none of them will bring bright results.

If one calls a person or deed evil or just bad has probably to do with one's personal treshhold.

I'd definitely not associate with any of them.

 

[TD1900]

Bro, I have a couple of questions for you:

1. I'm seeing by looking at Mr Bubu's walkthrough (well, I didn't unpack and check the code) that neither the Edwin-Rose-Ian threesome nor the intimate scene with Lucy at the art exhibition add any Hana "cheating points"... is it a deliberate choice from you?


2. Will we see Jerrica & Spider again

1) First one is deliberate, 2nd one is an oversight.
2) The hackey answer is probably.

 

[Turret]

1) First one is deliberate, 2nd one is an oversight.
2) The hackey answer is probably.

That makes sense, the MC-Ian-Rosi threesome is more or less an extension of Club business (Edwin making sure Rosi can compete), so no problem with Hana on that front.
I have to report a bug,by the way. Felicia talking with Denise should give her a confidence point generally, but that does not happen on all paths! In one playthrough of the Art exhibition, I confronted Lucy after sending Feli to talk with the artist. I was on good terms with Lucy from their earlier talk and got the info about Kat and a kiss from her, not more.
Afterwards, Feli´s Confidence score was still three even if it should have been four, since she had a great talk.

 

[Randomguy3478]

Oh brother, this guy is still going on and on and on. How pathetic do you have to be to run to the community of a game specifically dedicated to degrading women just to have somebody, anybody, validate your contempt for women only to get absolutely ratioed. Give up and take the L man.

Just realized that you insult a real human because of criticism of a fictional woman.

 

[ename144]

That makes sense, the MC-Ian-Rosi threesome is more or less an extension of Club business (Edwin making sure Rosi can compete), so no problem with Hana on that front.
I have to report a bug,by the way. Felicia talking with Denise should give her a confidence point generally, but that does not happen on all paths! In one playthrough of the Art exhibition, I confronted Lucy after sending Feli to talk with the artist. I was on good terms with Lucy from their earlier talk and got the info about Kat and a kiss from her, not more.
Afterwards, Feli´s Confidence score was still three even if it should have been four, since she had a great talk.

I don't think that's a bug. Felicia still gains a Confidence point for talking to Denise (at least she did in my test), but she loses a Confidence point when Waylon ambushes her; you can't warn her about Eric's presence if you spend your time digging into Lucy's mission.