VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[torresm]

You name the MC as..... Exp?

Robert -> Rob
Expert -> Exp?

Or maybe his full name is Expholomew or something along these lines.

 

[lustforsex]

Nah, Ian had been banging countless number of girls behind Mina's back just so he can keep on pushing and pushing her to break up with him for his amusement (prior to Edwin advising him to self-reflect), so while there was some fooling around I wouldn't say what Mina and Edwin did as being on Ian's level; especially if the player decided to break it off with Mina (in my case, to pursue Hana, since she's always been my favorite LI).

Even if Ian somehow learns of their "adventures" (though there's not really much to tell for it to be even considered an adventure anyway , given other than Edwin kissing Mina, only stuff he did was sucking her tits & eating her pussy. After that, my Edwin puts stop to it saying he can't help her with her list anymore and it ends amicably when deciding Hana is the one for him), he wouldn't have any right to judge/call out Mina & MC out on that given shit he did was well.... soooooooo much worse, that it's not even comparable lol

In your case, quitting with Mina because you decided to go the Hana GF route seems more acceptable, but there are far more players who haven't. It's a different matter if players don't care about Ian and, without delving too deeply into the game, immediately label him as someone who won't change.

Of course, compared to what Ian did, it's incomparable, but doing something questionable just because you know someone else was worse is, in my opinion, an inappropriate excuse.
As a result, attempts to justify their actions by saying that Ian is even worse simply look like an evasion of responsibility.

You name the MC as..... Exp?

I suppose 99% of us is using Edwin.

A survey could be conducted, because I am sure that 99% is far from the truth

 

[torresm]

A survey could be conducted, because I am sure that 99% is far from the truth

As we all know, 98% of statistics are made up on the spot.

But seriously, any time a game suggests a default name, I'll go with it. I'm terrible with names, and most of the time will end up with the most boring ones possible like Paul and John.

 

[dolfe67]

Renaming the MC is one of the most important feature of an AVN, so I lean more on the 99% are renaming them. Some people prefer saying the default name instead of MC in discussions though, even if they renamed.

 

[Idontplay]

Are all of you really starting to debate about how much players are using the Edwin's default name? Seriously?

 

[lustforsex]

As we all know, 98% of statistics are made up on the spot.

But seriously, any time a game suggests a default name, I'll go with it. I'm terrible with names, and most of the time will end up with the most boring ones possible like Paul and John.

Personally, I don't care who calls the MC what, even if it's "PussyDestroer1998", but I can understand those who don't want to reveal the name (I've seen screenshots more than once where the MC's name was hidden on this forum) that they gave to their MC, because it can be picked on and laughed at without knowing the context.

 

[FRVN]

Her name was Marlow. And sure, that went terribly, but I prefer to think of it as practice for the real throuple now that Mina is here.

As for whether Marlow will show up again, I doubt it. She plays a role in the MC's backstory, but it's a small one and I don't see a lot she can add to the mix at this point. The game has more than enough balls to juggle just with the characters already involved in the current day. But we'll see what happens.

Fair warning, though: if we do get the return of Marlow in a special interlude titled "Crossroads," I am out!!

After doing a replay through the entire game and seeing the scenes with Marlow again, I feel like if she was just for fleshing out Edwin's backstory, they wouldn't have spent the time to make a model and renders for her, it would've just been through dialogue, like with how we haven't seen other characters that have been mentioned, like Rose's ex-husband or Veronica's ex-wife (outside of a photo at her place). Maybe Kathleen will contact her/bring her in to further poke at Edwin and push him towards his sadistic side. But that's just the vibe I get from seeing that scene. I wouldn't be surprised if she was just for backstory.

Renaming the MC is one of the most important feature of an AVN, so I lean more on the 99% are renaming them. Some people prefer saying the default name instead of MC in discussions though, even if they renamed.

Personally, I don't care who calls the MC what, even if it's "PussyDestroer1998", but I can understand those who don't want to reveal the name (I've seen screenshots more than once where the MC's name was hidden on this forum) that they gave to their MC, because it can be picked on and laughed at without knowing the context.

For the majority of AVNs with customizable names, I use my own name, which I would rather not give out for privacy reasons. If I'm sharing screenshots on here, I'll either crop it to just the dialogue or use a fresh save where I kept the default name. In the case of PC, I used my own name for all but one of my saves; I kept Edwin as the name for that save. Also, I use the MC's default name in discussions, unless I forgot what it is.

 

[ffive]

I mean, I'm not discounting at all what Ian has done.
What he has done (intentionally trying to push Mina's buttons to see how far it takes till she breaks up with him) was him being a literal asshole and absolute deplorable thing to do.
Difference between then and now is that before, Ian wasn't aware (and didn't care about his actions), and now he does, given Edwin set him on the "self-reflect"/redemption path - assuming player chose this path for Ian.

I don't agree that Ian was somehow unaware of what he was doing. IMO he knew it very well, he simply did not care if not even revel in it. His attitude towards women is what it is, and a bit of newly gained self-reflection isn't really changing this, nor is it going to automagically mend his old ways and mentality.

He is someone i'd be very reluctant to see with any woman tbh (other than someone who understands exactly what sort of guy he is, and is into it) and Mina least of all. You'd be basically saddling her with constant reminder of what she's experienced from Ian in the past. Again, i don't think this is something she deserves.

Besides, let's set aside the "who Mina deserves" aspect, & looks at it down in terms of overall story aspect.
Can Ian hook up with billions of other women out there?
Sure. But establishing any as his potential girlfriend (as Edwin suggest just as Hell Week starts assuming player took "self-reflect" path with him) to enter the storyline?

Then we can simply live without "Ian gets himself a girlfriend". Looking at it overally, it's not like this is crucial part of the story, and if anything i think it'd stretch credibility to see Ian suddenly do a full 180 on his former behavior after just one talk with Edwin.

So having her forgive Ian, but they start off friends but gradually rekindle their romance I dunno about you but I can see working (compared to introducing a "nobody" LI for Ian whom I won't care about about at all at this stage).

I'm sorry but i can't see such development as anything but Stockholm Syndrome developed by a girl whose first boyfriend was an utter asshole and she's never had a chance to experience anything better. Which is to say, i hate the idea of doing Mina dirty like that.

Plus, there's just one week of the story left. I really don't see such reconcilement happening in such time frame as anything but an ass pull.

edit: also, i kind of want to challenge the idea that it's somehow too late to introduce new "gf for Killian" because the player wouldn't have time to care about her. It didn't exactly take long (both in the game's calendar and in terms of updates) to introduce Mina to the player as a likeable character that they'd start to care about, did it? Same for Hana and everyone else Edwin has developed rapport with. It's not like people were collectively sitting on the fence about them until Exhibition #3 rolled around.

 

[ffive]

That said, I'm now all in on shooting the moon and trying for the Ian/Mina/MC throuple instead.

After the last throuple experience Edwin had with Ian, that nearly crippled their friendship after but one week, i'm sure the second time will be a charm. Something something insanity.

I tried to help them stay together like a good friend should.

You think a good friend should be trying to have you stay with someone who is cheating on you without any remorse and at every opportunity, flaunting it to the point of taking videos and leaving them at your place? Man, save me from friends like that.

When you decided to cross the line with Mina, did you ever consider at the time that such an action would actually lower you and Mina to Ian's level?

No, because Edwin isn't cheating on his partner by fucking Mina, and Ian didn't fuck girls behind Mina's back after he has learned that she'd been continually cheating on him. These are very much apples and oranges, with both Mina and Edwin understanding that Ian has effectively burned the bridge down at this point and his relationship with Mina was no longer. Even if he's had yet to receive the formal note about it.

 

[ffive]

Better Exp than Maincharacter, like I do the name I use everytime I play a game, in which there isn't a default name for the main character.

I usually go for a normal name which sounds vaguely like "MC" in those cases. So it ends up with stuff like Mac, Mike, Malcolm, Micah etc.

 

[Nulldev]

I usually go for a normal name which sounds vaguely like "MC" in those cases. So it ends up with stuff like Mac, Mike, Malcolm, Micah etc.

Nobody uses "Hiro Protagonist"?

You must be registered to see the links

 

[ffive]

Nobody uses "Hiro Protagonist"?

You must be registered to see the links

I couldn't use it without being constantly reminded of the "original/real" character with this name, so no. I'd be like "uh what the hell is he doing here" the entire time.

 

[UmbralKnight]

Do you understand that his presence in the club is the reason for the existence of this game and that there isn't any life for the character, after the game's end?

you do realise that the game for all practical purposes ends by week 4 right ?
4 weeks and an epilogue that's realistic timeframe of the game
even if the MC sticks around and works for the club do you really think we are going to get to see what happens in the club after the current carnation events end ?
remember MC is premed so he has to hang around atleast another 4 years in the club until he completes his education
we are not going to see what going to happen in the next year's carnation games
this game ends with the current carnations
unless the devs decide that the end of carnation games is just an act III and the story will continue after a small time skip showing us all the impact it had on the lives of everyone involved
even then the main choices would pretty much be whether you're staying in the club or leave it all behind

By quitting early he forfeits the very thing that made him participate and put up with all this shit in the first place.

that kind of blackmail might have mattered much a few weeks ago but now not so much

kathy and chuck both might spend rest of their lives trying to ruin MC's life if he turns on them but hey
now he too (potentially) has new powerful friends

we have already seen grace and abel (through sophia) offer him money for his education/ job for him in exchange for helping them

so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that he could get help from one or few of the other patrons through some of his actions

for example
someone like elais might be willing to help the MC provided that he makes sure that felcia "wins" the games or something
It's not unrealistic
sure he might be very pissed off rn and felicia would probably hate you but elias did like hanging out with "bukowski" very much so he could help the MC potentially in the future

plus elais isn't the only one
samson is obsessed with veronica he would most definitely pay /do anything to learn her most vulnerable secrets from the MC who could pretend to be guardian angel/best friend all along only to betray her in her most desperate hour

so yeah chuck and kathy using "money" as a leverage won't work as effective as they used to in the beginning but they could make sure he stays complaint through other means

any deal with kathy is a guaranteed faustian bargain
nothing good can come from it

How tall is Veronica? I think she is around 190cm

yeah that sounds about right
she is as tall as samson / warren who are both tall men themselves

"... 10 years later, after the last carnation stopped answering Edwin's messages, one could still find him drinking alone in the bar, never wanting to talk about the past, but always playing this song in the jukebox."

"All we ever wanted was everything" by Bauhaus starts playing. Credits - and tears- roll.

Or just simply rename it to Pale Carnations - It did end in tears.

 

[HDussen]

Nobody uses "Hiro Protagonist"?

You must be registered to see the links

Parson Gotti

 

[ffive]

that kind of blackmail might have mattered much a few weeks ago but now not so much

kathy and chuck both might spend rest of their lives trying to ruin MC's life if he turns on them but hey
now he too (potentially) has new powerful friends

we have already seen grace and abel (through sophia) offer him money for his education/ job for him in exchange for helping them

so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that he could get help from one or few of the other patrons through some of his actions

It's not blackmail. It's payment for service rendered. You know, a normal thing people get from a job.

Considering that Grace is likely to jump as high as her brother tells her (meaning if her brother tells her to disassociate from Edwin, she will) and Abel is actively working with the club in order to develop a mind-fucking drug, i'm not seeing why exactly you think Edwin swapping his current arrangement for one of those would be an improvement from either materialistic or moral point of view. Same for ideas like "maybe Elias will overlook the shit i pulled and tosses some money my way" and "hey, why don't i abuse Veronica's trust to sell dirt on her to the man who orchestrated the situation she is in because he is obsessed with fucking her, literally and figuratively".

Also, there is still a question why he would want to quit in the first place if he didn't already. He has already spent the "few most important weeks" degrading women on stage for entertainment of old farts, but you think being a middle manager in a brothel is where he will draw the line? He entered this contract in the first place thinking that would be his actual work.

any deal with kathy is a guaranteed faustian bargain
nothing good can come from it

Right, as opposed to working for Abel. Have you seen the state Sophia is in, something Abel is clearly okay with and fully taking advantage of? Or are you maybe hoping for Edwin to end up as another drugged up table for sushi at his master's instructions...

Also, again. Edwin's deal is with Chuck, not Kat. In fact, Chuck admonishes Kat a couple of times when she, in his opinion, takes things with Edwin too far.

 

[lustforsex]

No, because Edwin isn't cheating on his partner by fucking Mina, and Ian didn't fuck girls behind Mina's back after he has learned that she'd been continually cheating on him. These are very much apples and oranges, with both Mina and Edwin understanding that Ian has effectively burned the bridge down at this point and his relationship with Mina was no longer. Even if he's had yet to receive the formal note about it.

Mina herself has a different opinion on this matter:

Spoiler

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As for Edwin, he didn't cheat on anyone, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing (he's not in a situation where a girl deliberately hides or simply doesn't say that she's still technically in a relationship), and Ian is his best and only friend (not counting girls), and besides his numerous conflicting thoughts on the matter, even the devs hinted at this before watching the replay:

Spoiler

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[ffive]

Mina herself has a different opinion on this matter:

IIRC literally a moment later in that scene you can advocate as Edwin that Mina should officially break up with Ian as soon as possible, and Mina not only doesn't argue with it, but agrees. While one obviously isn't going to switch cleanly from thinking about partner as ex before making it official, i think Mina will also recognize sooner or later that what she did was only "being unfaithful" in the most technical sense, but it didn't give her any real sense what it truly feels like "to be unfaithful" i.e. to fuck behind your partner's back when you don't intend to leave them.

 

[Leinad_Sevla]

If we are still talking about what we name the MC, I also usually change the name of my MC´s.
It always confuses me a little when I see people using the MC´s actual name because I´m so used to using another one.

 

[UmbralKnight]

It's not blackmail. It's payment for service rendered. You know, a normal thing people get from a job.

Considering that Grace is likely to jump as high as her brother tells her (meaning if her brother tells her to disassociate from Edwin, she will) and Abel is actively working with the club in order to develop a mind-fucking drug, i'm not seeing why exactly you think Edwin swapping his current arrangement for one of those would be an improvement from either materialistic or moral point of view. Same for ideas like "maybe Elias will overlook the shit i pulled and tosses some money my way" and "hey, why don't i abuse Veronica's trust to sell dirt on her to the man who orchestrated the situation she is in because he is obsessed with fucking her, literally and figuratively".

Also, there is still a question why he would want to quit in the first place if he didn't already. He has already spent the "few most important weeks" degrading women on stage for entertainment of old farts, but you think being a middle manager in a brothel is where he will draw the line? He entered this contract in the first place thinking that would be his actual work.


Right, as opposed to working for Abel. Have you seen the state Sophia is in, something Abel is clearly okay with and fully taking advantage of? Or are you maybe hoping for Edwin to end up as another drugged up table for sushi at his master's instructions...

Also, again. Edwin's deal is with Chuck, not Kat. In fact, Chuck admonishes Kat a couple of times when she, in his opinion, takes things with Edwin too far.

first of all i never said that making deals with Abel or Grace is any better
It was meant to illustrate that MC has other options now than hope and pray for mercy that chuck/kathy keep up their end of the deal
second of all

Edwin's deal is with Chuck, not Kat. In fact, Chuck admonishes Kat a couple of times when she, in his opinion, takes things with Edwin too far.

do you really want to gamble everything on "uncle chuck's" benevolence?
he doesn't care what kathy does as long as he is sufficiently "entertained"
unlike ian or hana
MC has no blood relations in the club
he is easily replaceable like darius

It's not blackmail. It's payment for service rendered. You know, a normal thing people get from a job.

there is nothing "normal" about working in an underground sex club
even if you perform your duties to the letter as expected
do you really think kathy/chuck/august are going to let you walk away just like that one fine day when the MC completes his tenure with the establishment?
so far we haven't seen anyone successfully complete their time in the club and leave without any strings attached
what if you piss off kathy/chuck and they don't pay you / alter their deals what are you going to do ?
nothing
everyone who is already someone important in the city is part of the club so yeah that's why it's important for the MC to have "backup" plans if everything goes wrong
sure most of them are going to be very immoral and evil like helping samson but it's a last resort of sorts when everything goes wrong

and lastly the most important question of all

there is still a question why he would want to quit in the first place if he didn't already

very simple
he had no good reason to quit

up until now one of biggest reasons for the MC to not join the club is one day his mother somehow learning about it
but now there is one MORE compelling reason to leave the club (atleast if you're romancing Veronica that is)

Veronica hates the club and everyone who works in it (very understandable) and in the beginning she saw the MC as nothing but a errand boy working for Kathy but now even though she knows the reason why MC is working for the club and appreciates the effort MC has put into to becoming a doctor
there is no way she is ever going to accept him working for the club while being romantically involved with her
infact we have already seen glimpses of this
during her date
she can't help but feel bad that the only way they both "met" was through the club

so much so that she wants to both of them to begin anew
pretend as if it's the first time they're meeting eachother
and that's why both of them throughout the dance scene keep mentioning that it's the "first" time they both meet the true self of eachother
plus she repeatedly keeps saying that they both can hangout be friends (maybe more?) only till end of the month when the games end

even though by now she CLEARLY likes the MC
the fact that they both met under those circumstances is always going to be on her mind
one could say those horrible circumstances made for a good bonding moment while it's true there is no way the MC is going to justify working for the club for YEARS after the current carnation games end

this is the greatest hurdle in their relationship
not the fact that she is 1/3rd older than the MC or that she is bi-sexual
she is never going to be in love with "kathy's errand boy"

even if she wins the games and her gym becomes very successful as long as the MC works for kathy and the club
I don't think she would be willing to be the MC as long as he works for Kathy and the Club

plus she might not be only one either
sure hana and even felicia might be ok with the MC working for the club for years to come but I don't think mina or rose will be ok with that especially rose considering she has a daughter

 

[bonerland]

Does no one use names like Cash Money, Slam Rockfist, Thick Beefhammer, or Max Power?