VN Ren'Py Completed Picture Perfect [v1.0] [SuperWriter]

[KoGa3]

My long logical post crushed after I took time for a research. "Acting Lessons" - 259 roubles (Steam have different prices for different regions), finished game. "General practicioner" - 435 roubles, finished game now, price was the same when game was in Early Access, dev still making new updates, as DLC, for free. That was not milking.
"Being a DIK, Book one", version 0.4 - 309 roubles, all continuation (planned 3) as DLCs, each for a price. "City of broken dreamers, book one", version 0.7 - 259 roubles, all continuation as DLCs, no information about price. "Picture perfect v.08" - 133 roubles, continuation is planned in half a year, no information about price. That was 3 examples of milking. And to be honest, you have the most light variant.
You have your own understanding of Early Access, but it doesn't matter. Why I call these examles milking? In gamemaking demo (incomplete version of the game) is distributing for free, "to spread awareness", using your words. Complete version of the game has a price, each genre has their own price range (if VN cost as much as good RPG, that VN is clearly overpriced).
If completed game has package of new features, it's called DLC and may have a separate price. Sometimes DLC is distributing for free, for that dev usually have some points in good reputation.
To sum it all, demo is free, complete game has a price, DLCs may have a price. If game is incomplete, it's demo. That's why it's milking, you (and other two too) are trying to sell demo with a promise of bigger price for a complete game.

Well, I don't quite agree with you on that. He only charges money for work he's done. A one-time payment for 8 chapters (~half) of his game. Once again, 8 chapters, not just one like other demos! For some other developers this is almost a complete game. So in my opinion, this is not milking. What Gum..op does, that's milking. Charge money for nothing, zero. No further development, only promises (and that for over 2 years...). Unlike here, where updates are delivered pretty much every month.

So I see the release on Steam almost as much as a release on Patreon: If I want the game in development right away, I have to pay. If I don't want that, I'll just wait until it's finished. And then I just have to pay once. (Ok, there's also this pirate site here - but that's another story...)

Also the mentioned examples for the other "bad" developers don't fit for me either. Most of them are really successfully developers at all - and calling them milkers seems a bit unusual to me. And one "funny" thing too - "BaDIK" an "Acting Lessons" are from the same developer, only "Acting Lessons" was finished quite some time ago...

And sorry, an unfinished game is NOT automatically a demo. That's nonsense. A demo is a short teaser of a game, like a movie trailer. And this release on Steam goes way beyond that. It's for me like the first part of a movie series. And by the way, when other developers publish games in developement there for free, there's usually a reason for that...

 

[lionarslan]

Well, I don't quite agree with you on that. He only charges money for work he's done. A one-time payment for 8 chapters (~half) of his game. Once again, 8 chapters, not just one like other demos! For some other developers this is almost a complete game. So in my opinion, this is not milking. What Gum..op does, that's milking. Charge money for nothing, zero. No further development, only promises (and that for over 2 years...). Unlike here, where updates are delivered pretty much every month.

Please, elaborate, on what exactly you don't agree with me. I don't get it.
Here's example. You ordered some artist to paint your car with designer aerographics. You both agreed before that he'll be paid once work is done. He painted only left side of the car and said: "It's hard work, it costs me time and money, I'm not sure I can finish it with current resources. Consider this as a chapter 1 of my work and please pay". You have no assurance if he'll finish his work. This example is pretty much how devs use Steam's Early Access.

So I see the release on Steam almost as much as a release on Patreon: If I want the game in development right away, I have to pay. If I don't want that, I'll just wait until it's finished. And then I just have to pay once. (Ok, there's also this pirate site here - but that's another story...)

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I paid Bruni Multimedia for GP when game was in development. I had a choice - pay now for incomplete version (and all the risk coming with that) or wait when (and if) dev will finish game and buy after that. I took the risk, supported dev and got a game. That's how Early Access supposed to work.
But here's another story.

Also the mentioned examples for the other "bad" developers don't fit for me either. Most of them are really successfully developers at all - and calling them milkers seems a bit unusual to me. And one "funny" thing too - "BaDIK" an "Acting Lessons" are from the same developer, only "Acting Lessons" was finished quite some time ago...

Wait a minute, where did I say anything about "bad" developers? I said they're milking people for money. And that's true. I never said it's bad or that they're bad developers. Quite the opposite, I seriously think that both of them are really good developers, they're making good games (I even bought one in Steam, moreover, to that moment I already played it and bought it 'cause I thought dev deserve that) and till today's morning I was looking forward to buying their other games as well.

And sorry, an unfinished game is NOT automatically a demo. That's nonsense. A demo is a short teaser of a game, like a movie trailer. And this release on Steam goes way beyond that. It's for me like the first part of a movie series. And by the way, when other developers publish games in developement there for free, there's usually a reason for that...

Nonsense is denial without any replacement. "It's not a demo, it's ..." What? If you have no word to replace 3 dots - it's demo all right. It goes both for you and Raziel_8. If you disagree eith term I use, explain your position and propose replacement for term, with arguments to support your position. Without it there's nothing to talk about.

 

[Lord Soth]

Great game so far and wow are the girls hot....love the renders and Sasha is just scorching! my favorite without a doubt, blonde, green eyes and tats with a fiery attitude and foul mouth...perfect.
Miracle was looking hot too with the makeup and short dress...much better than her "just outta bed" look, we actually see her beauty enhanced.Loving the content.

 

[KoGa3]

Please, elaborate, on what exactly you don't agree with me. I don't get it.
Here's example. You ordered some artist to paint your car with designer aerographics. You both agreed before that he'll be paid once work is done. He painted only left side of the car and said: "It's hard work, it costs me time and money, I'm not sure I can finish it with current resources. Consider this as a chapter 1 of my work and please pay". You have no assurance if he'll finish his work. This example is pretty much how devs use Steam's Early Access.


That's exactly what I'm talking about. I paid Bruni Multimedia for GP when game was in development. I had a choice - pay now for incomplete version (and all the risk coming with that) or wait when (and if) dev will finish game and buy after that. I took the risk, supported dev and got a game. That's how Early Access supposed to work.
But here's another story.

Wait a minute, where did I say anything about "bad" developers? I said they're milking people for money. And that's true. I never said it's bad or that they're bad developers. Quite the opposite, I seriously think that both of them are really good developers, they're making good games (I even bought one in Steam, moreover, to that moment I already played it and bought it 'cause I thought dev deserve that) and till today's morning I was looking forward to buying their other games as well.

Nonsense is denial without any replacement. "It's not a demo, it's ..." What? If you have no word to replace 3 dots - it's demo all right. It goes both for you and Raziel_8. If you disagree eith term I use, explain your position and propose replacement for term, with arguments to support your position. Without it there's nothing to talk about.

Sorry if I didn't explain something correctly - I'm not very good in English, most of it has to be done by the Google translator. So please don't take everything too seriously.

I understand your point of view, but I think it's a bit more complicated here. A demo version (at least for me) is a pre-release version of a game (or program) with VERY limited functionality. I can get a taste of the game/programm and then buy it when I like it. Only here the amount is already more as half of the game - in my opinion this is no longer a "demo" version. But I also understand you, since it isn't the full version either. I do not have an exact term in this case. If all unfinished software is really called "demo" - ok, that's fine with me too (and sometimes my Win10 also behaves as if it were a demo version...).

I'll leave it for now. We both have different opinions, whether this is a demo or not or whether you can charge money for it or not. Only the term "milking" just came up a bit sour to me - in my opinion this doesn't fit here at all.

 

[MrFriendly]

Sorry if I didn't explain something correctly - I'm not very good in English, most of it has to be done by the Google translator. So please don't take everything too seriously.

I understand your point of view, but I think it's a bit more complicated here. A demo version (at least for me) is a pre-release version of a game (or program) with VERY limited functionality. I can get a taste of the game/programm and then buy it when I like it. Only here the amount is already more as half of the game - in my opinion this is no longer a "demo" version. But I also understand you, since it isn't the full version either. I do not have an exact term in this case. If all unfinished software is really called "demo" - ok, that's fine with me too (and sometimes my Win10 also behaves as if it were a demo version...).

I'll leave it for now. We both have different opinions, whether this is a demo or not or whether you can charge money for it or not. Only the term "milking" just came up a bit sour to me - in my opinion this doesn't fit here at all.

At this point he is just trolling. If he isn't happy with the game or the developer there are other games and developers that he can pirate content from on here. Instead he is arguing about how unjust it is for someone to try and make money on more than one website.

 

[Deleted member 1412183]

A demo is not always for free and thats nothing new, that was already the case back in the 90s when i started gaming.
DLC's which are free are mostly for game optimizing ect, DLC's which have actual content are almost never for free and are used by many studios for milking these days, or the content which the DLC contains was removed from the game to sell extra...like day1 DLC for Mass Effect 3...

''If game is incomplete, it's demo.''
A demo is a presentation of the game, often used to introduce new mechanics or gamestyle, it has nothing to do with complete or incomplete.

In this case a 0.2 version of the game would be a good demo, it introduce the game characters, plot ect.
The current 0.7 is more like season/book 1 one of the game, it is absolute legit for the dev to charge money for it and 4 € is clearly not overpriced.

Ur coment about milking doesn't make sense, early access games are always incomplete, u pay for an unfinished game to support the dev/further development of the game, there is always the risk of the game will never be finished, that a game is cheaper in it's early access phase and more expensive when it is finished is only logical...

Sorry if I didn't explain something correctly - I'm not very good in English, most of it has to be done by the Google translator. So please don't take everything too seriously.

I understand your point of view, but I think it's a bit more complicated here. A demo version (at least for me) is a pre-release version of a game (or program) with VERY limited functionality. I can get a taste of the game/programm and then buy it when I like it. Only here the amount is already more as half of the game - in my opinion this is no longer a "demo" version. But I also understand you, since it isn't the full version either. I do not have an exact term in this case. If all unfinished software is really called "demo" - ok, that's fine with me too (and sometimes my Win10 also behaves as if it were a demo version...).

I'll leave it for now. We both have different opinions, whether this is a demo or not or whether you can charge money for it or not. Only the term "milking" just came up a bit sour to me - in my opinion this doesn't fit here at all.

lionarslan Really don´t see a problem with all the Steam Selling/Early Access ... Why do you care so much bout it whats right/wrong. (Mostly something just for you) ... He got the Green Light from Steam so doesn´t really matter what you think/want. It´s just to decide between the Dev & Steam.

It´s an unfinished VN yes but who cares. Almost every Game now is unfinshed and you have to upgrade it with DLC to get a real full finished Version. Life is Strange for example where made with Episode where you had to buy all episodes extra (the way Dr.Pink is doing).

That has nothing todo with milking if he want to sell it Steam. Thats the first Step in the right direction with his help of Patreons.

At this point he is just trolling. If he isn't happy with the game or the developer there are other games and developers that he can pirate content from on here. Instead he is arguing about how unjust it is for someone to try and make money on more than one website.

Thanks for speaking up and voicing your opinion, guys. It really sucks that someone can say you're basically trying to steal money when you bust your ass to release an update every month. And the game sells for $5 now and $15 once complete.

The Steam version has 8 updates that took 8 months of damn hard work, and Steam, which has millions upon millions of active users makes the game's awareness grow! And of course the money will help game development.

Yesterday, I bought Miracle a new dress I would not be otherwise able to afford, and that is not on every pirate site. I don't think lion is a fan of this game because getting more money and growing only benefits this game and motivates me to do this even more.

And this is literally how I pay my bills, so more money means only more time developing these games and I can even hire people to do better animations, adding features like gallery which i plan to hire someone to do, etc.

Anyway, thanks again.

 

[KoGa3]

Yesterday, I bought Miracle a new dress I would not be otherwise able to afford, and that is not on every pirate site. I don't think lion is a fan of this game because getting more money and growing only benefits this game and motivates me to do this even more.

 

[darth_hiruma]

lionarslan From what I read so far, I understand your concern and I see that the discussion is kinda off topic now. Picture Perfect will get update but not as constant as patreon because patron pay monthly. So it's reasonable to give patron a little head start. If you buy it on steam right now, you will get the full version when it's done too. The only difference is you won't get monthly update like patreon. You buy it on steam and next thing you get is full game. If you think this is milking, then it is milking FOR YOU. If other don't think it's milking, let them be. Stop forcing your thought into them.

 

[lionarslan]

Yesterday, I bought Miracle a new dress I would not be otherwise able to afford, and that is not on every pirate site. I don't think lion is a fan of this game because getting more money and growing only benefits this game and motivates me to do this even more.

Well, you are right in only one thing: I'm not a fan. Of anyone or anything. World has too much interesting things to narrow myself to only few of them. But I actually like your game, that's the only reason for my comments in this topic. I like your game and wish for it to be better. I don't monetize my wish in money, there's a whole lot of reasons for that, but in my mind someone can help dev not only with money but with other things too.
If my words hurt you in any way, I'm sorry for that, that never was my intention.

At this point he is just trolling. If he isn't happy with the game or the developer there are other games and developers that he can pirate content from on here. Instead he is arguing about how unjust it is for someone to try and make money on more than one website.

I suppose you never saw real trolls. Or it's too hard for you to read more than first sentence of the comment. And just for you: I never argue about dev publishing in Steam. I never speak of my emotions too, I discuss (if you know what's the difference between arguing and discussing) way of publishing with dev, reacting to his words. Then other people joined discussion and I reacted on them. I don't know where're you from, but in my corner of the globe it's polite to answer people who adressed to you. And it's impolite to ignore people, painting their comments with facepalms.

lionarslan From what I read so far, I understand your concern and I see that the discussion is kinda off topic now. Picture Perfect will get update but not as constant as patreon because patron pay monthly. So it's reasonable to give patron a little head start. If you buy it on steam right now, you will get the full version when it's done too. The only difference is you won't get monthly update like patreon. You buy it on steam and next thing you get is full game. If you think this is milking, then it is milking FOR YOU. If other don't think it's milking, let them be. Stop forcing your thought into them.

Discussion is dead right now and I totally fine with that. Those who wanted to say something, did that, that's all. For the record, what you said contradicts with what dev said. I prefer to believe SuperWriter, game is his "child" and it's only for him to decide how he wants to publish it. So if I buy "Picture Perfect v.08" in Steam now I won't get full version when it's done. I'll have the option to do so if I pay double I already paid for the game. Maybe it's milking only for me, I won't argue with that, everyone can have his/her opinion. If you'll read my comment from which all the fuss started I said, citate " it's kind of milking people for money ". I expressed my opinion, said my thought, did it in non-defenitive manner, everything else is in the mind of a reader.

 

[Maviarab]

Oh give it a godamn rest. Don't pay...fine! You're here anyway. When it's finished, give him a few measly bucks on Steam then. Jeeeesus....

You want to see milking? Go play Milfy City....have fun..go whine there about dev practices.

 

[Trikus]

Wow, I really enjoyed this. It does jump around randomly a little bit but the story is great and I like all of the characters. Good job.

 

[Deleted member 1412183]

Great game so far and wow are the girls hot....love the renders and Sasha is just scorching! my favorite without a doubt, blonde, green eyes and tats with a fiery attitude and foul mouth...perfect.
Miracle was looking hot too with the makeup and short dress...much better than her "just outta bed" look, we actually see her beauty enhanced.Loving the content.

Wow, I really enjoyed this. It does jump around randomly a little bit but the story is great and I like all of the characters. Good job.

Glad you guys are enjoying the game starts much! The next update will be out in the next couple of weeks =]

 

[Raziel_8]

So if I buy "Picture Perfect v.08" in Steam now I won't get full version when it's done. I'll have the option to do so if I pay double I already paid for the game. Maybe it's milking only for me, I won't argue with that, everyone can have his/her opinion.

I think u have misunderstood something here.
U can buy the v0.8 on steam now for 5$, u won't get monthly updates thats only for patreons, but when the game is completed it will get updated to the full game.
Or u buy the game when it is completed then it will cost 15$, but u don't need to buy the game twice.

 

[Gromov]

Shut up already everyone and give a new update.

 

[Deleted member 1412183]

Shut up already everyone and give a new update.

No problem. And you know what? I'll do a little extra work and add NTR to your version. Just for you. No thanks needed ^_^

 

[Gromov]

No problem. And you know what? I'll do a little extra work and add NTR to your version. Just for you. No thanks needed ^_^

Two teas for this gentleman.

 

[jospaghettio]

Dev's Patreon says 0.9 was released on July 18. And the Dev reports he'll be working on 0.10 shortly. I'm surprised that chapter 8 is the most recent build here. Is Version 0.9 Chapter 8? That's a little confusing.

 

[Deleted member 1412183]

Dev's Patreon says 0.9 was released on July 18. And the Dev reports he'll be working on 0.10 shortly. I'm surprised that chapter 8 is the most recent build here. Is Version 0.9 Chapter 8? That's a little confusing.

Not calling updates chapters anymore because it confuses people. CH. 8 = 0.9

 

[Drone_for_a_Day]

Not calling updates chapters anymore because it confuses people. CH. 8 = 0.9

Even more are confused by "software-style" version numbering. You'll get plenty of people saying "0.9 that means it's one step from being finished right?"

It's a sad day when a "visual novel" can't use chapter numbering because people don't understand how chapter numbering works...

 

[Mathesar]

Even more are confused by "software-style" version numbering. You'll get plenty of people saying "0.9 that means it's one step from being finished right?"

We have had the version numbering conversation a shocking number of times on the Harem Hotel thread. Some people have a really hard time understanding that v0.10 ≠ v0.1.