VN Ren'Py Completed Retrieving The Past [S3 E.6 & Epilogue] [MrKnobb]

[RogueKnightUK]

I'm saying that You are attacking people for having opinions you don't agree with. I agree it's a discussion, but I don't that's what a discussion qualifies as.

[...]

Well, its a public forum, people are leaving their reviews as to what they think of the story, and it's a good tool for the creator to see what people that play the game think of it. It's up to the creator to take whatever from each comment.

And if you think that leaving a comment that, as in my case, you think it was better before, counts as a "personal attack" and thrashing the story, then sorry, I don't know what to say to You. Because its not. It's a comment.

No.

Saying you don't like the story, or didn't understand it, that is feedback.

Saying it didn't feel believable, or exciting to you is expressing an opinion.

S2 is a mess.

Is judgemental, insulting, and an attack. And inspires the appropriate response.

You can see plenty of examples of us embracing constructive criticism. We fully acknowledge that it is too linear for some. We fully accept that the plot is complex and may be quite difficult to follow, especially for those for whom English is not their native language. We get told a lot that we have too many characters, and while we disagree, (both MrKnobb and I have far more family, friends, and coworkers, in our lives than Jensen does here), we fully agree that it is more than is typical, and far more than is often advised for keeping it simple.

But where somebody aggressively attacks the game for their own misunderstandings, as if we hadn't warned them up front it was linear, for instance, or who who judge it as a 'porn game' when that's not something we've ever attempted to make this into, and in other ways project their own inadequacies and small-mindedness onto us as an attack, well, fuck 'em.

You specifically called me out for responding to someone who outright attacked the writing, and the talent of the creators personally:

... this poorly written mess ... it doesn't take much talent to write a kinetic novel.

Someone who is more than experienced enough around the forum to know a lot better *unless* they were looking to bully and belittle. And in doing so you made the same error of using perjorative language, declaring something you simply didn't personally like as 'a mess'. If you didn't see how that was going to end, well, this story probably isn't for you, as you won't pick up on any of the clues there either.

 

[chaughton22]

Nicky isn't his daughter.

Only Amber is his kid.

Correct, as currently written. The point I tried to make above was that nothing about the story/characters would inherently be degraded/weakened by a (theoretical, well-planned and well-implemented) patch making Nikki = daughter; I mean hell, Jensen's other relatives (along with bystanders, married women, basically anyone with a vagina) have already openly confessed that they totally want to jump his bones, it's not like there'd really be much judgment from the core cast.

Again, playing devil's advocate against earlier poster's claim that incorporating incest would be incompatible with existing content. NOT intended as a "plz post wincest patch" petition (although those are pretty lulzy).

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[chaughton22]

Has there been a definite figure on planned number of Seasons for completed game, or is it kind of open ended currently? It seems like the Adam/Jensen/international conspiracy mystery (which is the core of the game's story thus far) is developing much slower than I anticipated; I had initially assumed 3 seasons, but that no longer feels like an educated assumption.

 

[Avaron1974]

Has there been a definite figure on planned number of Seasons for completed game, or is it kind of open ended currently? It seems like the Adam/Jensen/international conspiracy mystery (which is the core of the game's story thus far) is developing much slower than I anticipated; I had initially assumed 3 seasons, but that no longer feels like an educated e

I "think" it's 4. Unless my mind is playing tricks on me but I think I read somewhere they had 2 seasons left.

I know Knobbly has plans for his next game anyway.

 

[UnoriginalUserName]

FanArt:
Evaline's mission - eliminate all 12 years old haters on F95.

View attachment 453061

Sweet looking ride.

Cool Willys Jeep too.

 

[riukiuks]

You specifically called me out for responding to someone who outright attacked the writing, and the talent of the creators personally:

Is judgemental, insulting, and an attack. And inspires the appropriate response.

Fair enough. Maybe i should have made two separate posts where I address both things.

When I advised to 'chill' I was really taken aback by a creator being so heated up with a person who, call it however You want, wrote a comment on the game. It wasn't well constructed, nor did it sound pleasing I get it, but seeing a writer going forth and back with the user, really confused me.


And while I have to admit I did not go deeper in the forum to see what and how many of which comments You addressed personally, It was really weird seeing a creator be so heated up because someone said something bad, out of hundreds of other comments.

Maybe it's really not my place to say that and maybe You don't care, I just felt like sharing. You know, commenting.

Maybe "S2 is a mess." it sounded like "a personal attack" since it was written under the same comment, but i did not mean it in a sense where I belittle someones writing skills.

We fully accept that the plot is complex and may be quite difficult to follow

I just felt that S2 made less sense and raised more questions than it gave answers compared to S1 where it was pretty much clear, or easier to follow, as to what was happening. Thus the comment that i wrote.

Perhaps I was too impatient, maybe the mood- who knows, I guess I'll just have to wait and see for myself.

But anyways, I did not mean it to be personal or anything, I was genuinely worried about the comments and stuff.

Best of luck with writing.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

Fair enough. Maybe i should have made two separate posts where I address both things.

When I advised to 'chill' I was really taken aback by a creator being so heated up with a person who, call it however You want, wrote a comment on the game. It wasn't well constructed, nor did it sound pleasing I get it, but seeing a writer going forth and back with the user, really confused me.


And while I have to admit I did not go deeper in the forum to see what and how many of which comments You addressed personally, It was really weird seeing a creator be so heated up because someone said something bad, out of hundreds of other comments.

Maybe it's really not my place to say that and maybe You don't care, I just felt like sharing. You know, commenting.

Maybe "S2 is a mess." it sounded like "a personal attack" since it was written under the same comment, but i did not mean it in a sense where I belittle someones writing skills.



I just felt that S2 made less sense and raised more questions than it gave answers compared to S1 where it was pretty much clear, or easier to follow, as to what was happening. Thus the comment that i wrote.

Perhaps I was too impatient, maybe the mood- who knows, I guess I'll just have to wait and see for myself.

But anyways, I did not mean it to be personal or anything, I was genuinely worried about the comments and stuff.

Best of luck with writing.

Now you see, this is a much more civil and effective way to debate on items even where we may disagree. It just takes that extra bit of thought and consideration, and when that is shown, I gladly respond in kind.

I couldn't care less really about someone criticizing my writing skills, personally. Sure, it is still an active and open invitation for me to prove just how sharp my writing can be in eviscerating the poor misguided soul. However, the fact is I've been writing most of my life, have won competitions in my youth, and make a pretty good living these past few decades almost entirely on my writing ability.

No, what pisses me off about it is that it is insulting and dismissive of the fans who like the story, and that... Well, that I take offense to.

Not to mention that the dev himself, MrKnobb, has invested 2 years already into this project, determined to bring a truly meaty and ambitious plot to life, and already often feels disheartened at what we all know - he could have made more fans, gotten more support, and had a lot less criticism if he'd simply made yet another game where you play some teenager trying to fuck his entire family in the creepiest way possible, with all the plot and character depth of "Spot The Dog Has a Red Ball".

This is a work of passion. If you think we are unusual in being passionate in defending this work of passion, try telling a professional chef that his food is badly cooked sometime.

 

[Deleted member 167032]

I hope you stick around and play the "mess"... NO hard feeling from my side.
Pity if you stop playing it as you obviously felt something, so much you needed to voice your thoughts which is appreciated.

Fair enough. Maybe i should have made two separate posts where I address both things.

When I advised to 'chill' I was really taken aback by a creator being so heated up with a person who, call it however You want, wrote a comment on the game. It wasn't well constructed, nor did it sound pleasing I get it, but seeing a writer going forth and back with the user, really confused me.


And while I have to admit I did not go deeper in the forum to see what and how many of which comments You addressed personally, It was really weird seeing a creator be so heated up because someone said something bad, out of hundreds of other comments.

Maybe it's really not my place to say that and maybe You don't care, I just felt like sharing. You know, commenting.

Maybe "S2 is a mess." it sounded like "a personal attack" since it was written under the same comment, but i did not mean it in a sense where I belittle someones writing skills.



I just felt that S2 made less sense and raised more questions than it gave answers compared to S1 where it was pretty much clear, or easier to follow, as to what was happening. Thus the comment that i wrote.

Perhaps I was too impatient, maybe the mood- who knows, I guess I'll just have to wait and see for myself.

But anyways, I did not mean it to be personal or anything, I was genuinely worried about the comments and stuff.

Best of luck with writing.

 

[badsquirrel]

As for your error... MAC ugh not my forte but let's try... Did you start fresh Season 2 with no saves from Season 1? Saves from Season 1 wil not work unfortunately.

In Season 2 start it asks you which of the 3 girls you want to go for. Eve is the Neither option.. at the start...

Let me know

Hey Mr. Knobb. Really appreciate your hard work on this series. And thanks for the quick follow-up. I took the time to download the original season 2 Mac version archive (earlier, I had downloaded the compressed version because, well, internet speeds...) and you'll be happy to know it plays fine. It was the compressed version that, for some reason, threw up the exception, and immediately after hitting the "Start" button.

My apologies to the devs and the poster of the compressed version (Abhai, I think it was) for the lack of details in my earlier post. I'll describe the process below:

The exception occurred after clicking "Start" and between the first screen (2-column split screen with image of S01 on the left and image of S02 on the right). This screen appears for just a split-second before the exception screen shows up, so no chance of quickly clicking through on either column. Rollback simply displays previous screen for a split-second again before showing the exception. And the Ignore option does nothing. And no, I didn't carry over any save files. Completely fresh install.

I hope this is helpful.

In any case, as far as the original Mac archive is concerned, the game starts just fine and I've already started playing it.

 

[badsquirrel]

I'll leave the code issue to MrKnobb or his main code helper, but wanted to thank you for your added comment.

It's a fair point on the gameplay, that there are relatively few choices in the game, and that the real branching will only come towards the ending. Honestly, that's simply practicality, as this was already an insanely ambitious first story just to get one path right with so many details and layers of complexity. We also haven't fudged it to make it look like a lot more choices by having choices that really go to the same place, and none of those 'game over' ones that people only immediately rollback from anyway, so again are not real choices.

The practicality is in another sense too though. With so much mystery, so many "unknown unknowns" (the things you don't even know you don't know), it would be all too easy to make sensible seeming choices that ultimately bit you in the ass. We didn't want to slow down the entire game to actually give you everything Jensen has learned over years in terms of both his abilities, and, for example, those of Adam.

Spoiler: For example:

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A mostly linear, points-based VN is simply the best format given the complexities of the story and the characters both. There will be more choices once Jensen starts to take the initiative, where previously he was merely reacting to things, often without time for finesse.

Hopefully that feeling that it isn't fully fleshed out is merely the fact that Jensen himself barely knows what is going on throughout the first series - there are big gaps in his understanding, and thus there are gaps in the story as you perceive it through him. But as you go into series 2 you'll discover things that make you realise there was more there than you understood, and you'll see clues that didn't make sense until later.

For us, we always felt that getting the characters right, their motivations and their reactions to circumstances, was the real key to the story, so I'm truly delighted you say it all scanned well for you. Thank you, and I hope you enjoy all that is yet to come.

Thanks for the detailed reply, RogueKnight. I can relate to a lot of the reasoning you've expounded on above. I just have to say, one thing that did nag at me -especially toward the end of S01 - was that no one (particularly Jensen, given his proclivity for interpersonal connection and natural thoughtfulness) seemed to be concerned about Abigail's status and whereabouts especially after the abduction of Fran, Cynthia, Mei. Not even the Brewsters. I can see now (having gone some way in S02) that she had a direct connection to what was happening, but it still seems a tad out of character. I explain it away as things moving fast, especially for the MC, but even so, there's just this little voice in my head...

Anyway, I have some inkling of the complexity the creators are undertaking and all I can say is that it's admirable. I look forward to seeing more from the lot of you.

 

[Get Rekt]

Man this game has the best plot i have ever played

 

[noobhkn31]

Not yet completed?

 

[Deleted member 167032]

As eternal as space... so are RTP not completed...

Not yet completed?

 

[riukiuks]

Sure, it is still an active and open invitation for me to prove just how sharp my writing can be in eviscerating the poor misguided soul

I admit, I noticed that

This is a work of passion. If you think we are unusual in being passionate in defending this work of passion, try telling a professional chef that his food is badly cooked sometime.

I get Your point. I should've looked into it more to understand where You are coming from.

I hope you stick around and play the "mess"... NO hard feeling from my side.
Pity if you stop playing it as you obviously felt something, so much you needed to voice your thoughts which is appreciated.

Hey I already feel bad for saying it like that. I don't usually comment at all, I don't know why it came out like that. I guess I was too hasty to leave a reply.

And of course, I'll stick around to see what You guys do next.

Anyways, best of luck in writing to both of You.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

I just have to say, one thing that did nag at me -especially toward the end of S01 - was that no one (particularly Jensen, given his proclivity for interpersonal connection and natural thoughtfulness) seemed to be concerned about Abigail's status and whereabouts especially after the abduction of Fran, Cynthia, Mei. Not even the Brewsters.

That is an excellent observation, and it genuinely delights me that the story and characters were 'real' enough for that sort of thinking to occur. Seriously.

Spoiler: My thoughts and view

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[Rythan25]

Now you see, this is a much more civil and effective way to debate on items even where we may disagree. It just takes that extra bit of thought and consideration, and when that is shown, I gladly respond in kind.

I couldn't care less really about someone criticizing my writing skills, personally. Sure, it is still an active and open invitation for me to prove just how sharp my writing can be in eviscerating the poor misguided soul. However, the fact is I've been writing most of my life, have won competitions in my youth, and make a pretty good living these past few decades almost entirely on my writing ability.

No, what pisses me off about it is that it is insulting and dismissive of the fans who like the story, and that... Well, that I take offense to.

Not to mention that the dev himself, MrKnobb, has invested 2 years already into this project, determined to bring a truly meaty and ambitious plot to life, and already often feels disheartened at what we all know - he could have made more fans, gotten more support, and had a lot less criticism if he'd simply made yet another game where you play some teenager trying to fuck his entire family in the creepiest way possible, with all the plot and character depth of "Spot The Dog Has a Red Ball".

This is a work of passion. If you think we are unusual in being passionate in defending this work of passion, try telling a professional chef that his food is badly cooked sometime.

I love you guys, and aside from putting NTR in the game, will support this project to the end... but I have to say Rogue... your coming across (not as bad though) as the creator of "The Engagement".... I like that you talk with the people on the forum, your and MrKnobb are awesome for engaging with us plebs to begin with... most devs dont... that said, if you get this heated over criticism maybe take a step back from this particular forum ? I like Knobb's approach much more... if something is downright hurtful (which in the last 15 pages there have been many)... just ignore that shit...

I mean this last post that I just quoted... your talking about how "criticizing something others like is in bad taste *in reference to RTP), and I cant tolerate it"... than finish the post by shitting on your idea of what every incest game is... I mean WTF ? Is that not also insulting to people that like those games ?

Mrknobb has a great game here... I feel bad when I see him posting in "off-topic" or other forums here to ask for "what do people want", or "what makes a game succesful"... cause its obvious that he feels bad RTP isnt as big as it should be... but good things come to those that wait... some people catch fire immediately some take a while... you really think people gave a crap about ICSTOR when he made "Taboo Story" ? or hell even "Incest Story 1" ? I dont think he got big till IC2, which means after his fourth game.

Philly skyrocketed after COBD... as he sank pretty low after DA finished with no project in sight... Lewdlad took a nosedive after the "Dreams of Desire" saga ended... Midnight Paradise is not catching him the same support at all. Same with Dark Silver... Glamour doesnt get him 1/4 of what Big Brother did.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

... your talking about how "criticizing something others like is in bad taste *in reference to RTP), and I cant tolerate it"... than finish the post by shitting on your idea of what every incest game is... I mean WTF ? Is that not also insulting to people that like those games ?

Ah, my apologies for the lack of clear context. I forget that many of you aren't on our discord, or aware of quite how many of the better and more entertaining incest games I play. For that context, please understand that among many games I love, a considerable number of them feature incest quite prominently, and some of them I'll install a patch in to get them to do so.

Midlife Crisis; Long Live the Princess; Light of My Life; No More Secrets; Where it all Began; Freeloading Family; Private Community; Dreams of Desire; Depraved Awakening; Luke's Way; Parental Love; Depravity; Waifu Academy; Vivid Days; Sisterly Lust; and of course, Our Fate; are all games with incest that I not only play but actively recommend to others.

So, my statement, in that context, should make more sense now - when I'm dismissive of unimaginative and poorly characterized incest stories (a subset of the broader range of all incest stories), it isn't the incest that's the bit I'm critical of - it's the lack of originality, character depth, or effort to tell a story. Even then, I dismiss it as in the term 'junk food' - we know it isn't good, but most of us will still find ourselves eating it sometime when we are hungry enough and without better options in the time we have.

 

[Freezer14]

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I'm in the same boat, too. Amber and Andi are my favorite models. Jessie, Penny, and Francine are also at the top for me. I'm notorious for falling for characters that the MC has little to no chance with. So I'm holding out some kind of hope for some of the aforementioned character models to make an appearance in future games, preferably with some steamy scenes with a MC.

 

[Deleted member 167032]

Haha.. me too... I most times go for the nerdi girl or the tattoo'd goth/bitchy girls... not sure why I do but...
I wish I can tell you which girl(s) will be in next venture but... hopefully its a nice surprise and I can then actually really broaden their character(s)...

I think at teh end of RTP Novel as a whole i'll do a Poll again and see which girl in the whole game people enjoyed the most. Of course Vicky/Eve/nicky will be most but i'll be looking at the in betweens.. I have my idea's as to who already but we will see

I'm in the same boat, too. Amber and Andi are my favorite models. Jessie, Penny, and Francine are also at the top for me. I'm notorious for falling for characters that the MC has little to no chance with. So I'm holding out some kind of hope for some of the aforementioned character models to make an appearance in future games, preferably with some steamy scenes with a MC.

 

[bobdillan]

Why must you continuously tease me with andi (the name change and hair colour change is still a bit to get used to :S ).... And why must I continuously enjoy every moment XD