VN Ren'Py Completed SandStorm (EraStorm Saga #1) [v2.01] [GleenX Studio]

[-CookieMonster666-]

But that's the flipflop route you get when you do flipflop choices all the time in the playthrough, and basically the loser path and most minor route of the game. So it's a bit harsh to judge the MC on a route that is supposed to be floppy (and that almost no one should get, as you need to really make strange and inconsistent choices to get it).
I agree it doesn't make sense to switch from Maddie to Nora at the last minute, and if you have the option to do it, it doesn't mean you should do it. Besides, if your relationship was strong enough with Maddie, you don't even get the possibility to switch, so...

Ambition = Harem. lol, I can see you coming...
You probably tried to play sandstorm as if you would play some harem game, and yeah it doesn't work well that way and leads to the floppy path you mentioned (or the evil path).
If you stick 100% to romance one LI, especially Maddie for example, you will see the MC is not that inconsistent.
But otherwise, I can agree that SandStorm sucks as a harem game that's why it was not tagged that way btw.
The evil path is for fun, it's not really serious and overly exaggerated, true. I could have done without that path.
That said, I think the ending for the evil path will be pretty surprising and probably not what people expect, I'll say no more.

That aside, the rest of your analysis was interesting with a few correct assumptions and some good attempts.

It always amazes me when people try to force a round peg into a square hole. I am interested to see where the evil path takes things, however, so I have a playthrough of it separate from the different romance paths. (Well, I have only done the version where you go to confront Nora directly, not the factory visit allowing Rion to be abused one. I'll probably do that second evil path starting with the next release of this game.)

 

[GleenXstudio]

It always amazes me when people try to force a round peg into a square hole. I am interested to see where the evil path takes things, however, so I have a playthrough of it separate from the different romance paths. (Well, I have only done the version where you go to confront Nora directly, not the factory visit allowing Rion to be abused one. I'll probably do that second evil path starting with the next release of this game.)

Seems a lot of people like the evil path, when I make some polls, it usually ends up first or second, lol.
I also enjoy making them, and I laugh a lot at some of my extravagant scenes, so in the end, I don't regret adding those paths which were not planned at the very beginning. Even though it could have been more subtle, I think the endings for those paths have still an interesting story and outcome.

Well, tbh, there are some truths in what carefree said, even if I don't agree with everything and his example was not the best as taken from what I consider an irrelevant path (failure path), but I can see what he means, even If I believe part of it is because he would have preferred a harem structure.

If I'm objective, and I need to, to progress, Sandstorm has indeed many flaws but overall it seems it was still enjoyable for a bunch of people, so it's not that bad .

SandStorm is also some kind of laboratory for me to learn the techniques, try new gameplay aspects and various approaches. So, it is quite right to say it's not very well structured. It's my first game, with 0 previous experience, and after 15/18 months of work (in my free personal time), I can say I'm quite happy and proud of what I achieved even if I obviously made a bunch of bad choices too, but eh, mistakes are something needed to advance. But now, I want to do better for the second episode ^^, and it's safe to say it will be a bit more 'pro'.
I wanted SandStorm to be a different game than the mass, and I believe it does that pretty well, but it ended up being its main weakness and strength at the same time, lol. I also let too many open choices and possibilities of switches. I was looking to make an 'all you can do' game, but it's really too ambitious, especially for a dev that does all this in his free and limited time. It's hard to make it work well for all routes and possible scenarios, and I ended up sacrificing the logic of some of the undefined paths otherwise it was too much of a nightmare to handle and the game would never be finished. Anyway, this was my own choice to make all those paths, no one else to blame lol. And despite this, I'm still making sure the game meets its completion in the best way I can (many would have abandoned, I believe) .

The fact that the MC is too passive is something I heard many times and I can understand that criticism. It was my idea to make him a bit of a follower at first and get more confidence as the adventure progresses (which I believe is the case in Maddie's romance route, maybe not enough in the other routes (evil path excluded)
I can already say that the MC in Episode 2 (SnowStorm) is more proactive/decisive early on (well...once out of prison lol).

Anyway, I obviously learned a lot from making SandStorm and analyzed the past experience to decide how I'm making SnowStorm

There are :
- Aspects I'm not willing to sacrifice because I'm very attached to it, like the main plot, the epic and atmospheric adventure vibes, the depth and character design of the LIs, the media/soundtrack attention, the background and lore.
- Aspects I'm trying to improve with some help (which I hope can be seen in SnowStorm already), ie. the writing, the structure of the game, the sex scenes maybe
- Aspects I compromised/conceded compared to SandStorm to make it more enjoyable for a larger audience: a more proactive MC, fewer genres/tags especially to not mix problematic genres and to avoid making multiple paths just because of tags, simpler and less unpredictable gameplay, and multiple romances will be possible this time.

So in the end, SnowStorm will be a bit different gameplay experience but I believe with the same atmospheric setting and cool girls. Some people will probably still prefer SandStorm original gameplay over the more structured SnowStorm. Some, the contrary. Some both, some none (I hope not lol). Anyway, it will never please everyone so I also made this choice for my development experience, and I believe that is what will keep me developing games for a long time, by constant evolution and not by making 30 times the same thing, or by exploiting an overly used cooking recipe that is too far away from what I want to do.

And to answer the initial question, before I deviated way too much

These just mixed my head more... I just want which one should i play first and they are connected or not. I understand they are connected (somehow) but which one takes place before other one as a timeline?

You usually play/watch Episode 1 before Episode 2, don't you?
So I recommend you to play SandStorm first. Now, if for some reason, you don't like Episode 1, it doesn't mean you won't like Episode 2, if that's the case, it's fully enjoyable on its own. (and I can already relate that many are only interested by episode 2...I don't know if I should be happy or sad for that :/).

 

[RewindWorld]

(and I can already relate that many are only interested by episode 2...I don't know if I should be happy or sad for that :/).

Don't be sad. The reason could be something as simple as someone preferring "Viking theme" over the other. It doesn't mean the game is bad.

 

[Sancho1969]

69 ... my kind of number

My favorite as well

 

[Carefree247]

But that's the flipflop route you get when you do flipflop choices all the time in the playthrough. So it's a bit funny to judge the floppiness of the MC on a route that is floppy by choice (and imo, that route is pretty irrelevant and marginal, you end up there when you have not been consistent in your choices and have almost no real relationship with any girl, trying to catch all the rabbits).
I agree it doesn't make sense to switch from Maddie to Nora at the last minute, and if you have the option to do it, it doesn't mean you should do it. Besides, if your relationship was strong enough with Maddie, you don't even get the possibility to switch later on, so...

I'll elaborate my starting experience and my thought process so you can understand a bit more what I mean.

Starting out we had no idea on what the personality of the girls were and whether we would like them or not and based on the few interactions with them so I balanced my options till I was sure, but early on it was pretty obvious for me that Maddie was more preferable to Rion who is constantly seeking validation plus her blatant disregard for her BF, If you don't like him dump him don't string him along, and the chances of her doing that to MC at some point later is also highly likely but then again that's my thought process.
Even Maddie has her flaws with how strong she comes across trying to push people away and doing things her way or the highway. For a military personnel you work with groups and try to get along with their various quirks but this girl is more like a helicopter parent at times with how overbearing and at times naive she comes across in certain situations.
Nora is the more mature of the 2 where she carries some traits from the 2 main leads while being dealt a low blow to her character arc where she doesn't get enough development where some of her actions plus the MC's deep obsession for her comes across as sudden or misplaced. I mean how many guys do you know who'll drop their friends who they have known for years to pursue some chick who he felt the right vibes with for a few days and that to when the threat of life is involved.

My Nora route went with my MC pursuing Maddie at first because she was the one most directly tied with the supernatural narrative to leaving her for Nora when she appeared due to how pushy she was when trying to get to know her this for me was an indication she is still not over her ex or she has some baggage she needed to deal with as it's rude to nose around someones trials and tribulations, though for Maddie she needed someone like that but for some one like MC who is single and doesn't know what happened it felt rude and Nora was too damn fine for me to pass up getting to know her.

I've written something way back regarding the 3 when the story was still not fleshed out as it is today.

Interesting, insight though I feel the writer came too fast on Nora's character arc this time around. Her motives are simple though she has had the worst storytelling considering her character is inconsistent compared to Rion or Maddie. Depending on the dialogue choices her reply is vastly different which is not the case for the other 2.

From a 3rd person PoV:
Rion is being a slut and it's immature for her to play with her BF and MC like that considering the bond they have,and that's not a relationship nor motherly material, in the long term she'll be a kid in an adults body with no meaningful relations. In short she can be a fun friend to hang out casually but long term she might screw things up as she herself is unsure what she wants.

Maddie has the greatest baggage, basically is afraid to open up to others, has low consciences and agreeableness which makes her bad at bonding with others, her experience and flaws made her jaded and slowly will make her more cynical, I'm quite surprised how she never got into counseling considering her military background. Narratively she's a rough gem that could be turned into a beauty but retains some of her sharp edges which will cause conflict later on in a relationship. ( I mean she must be truly naive to think you can go full guns blazing and be the upright White knight and not one day catch a bullet or worse happen to you Ned Stark is a perfect personification of such naivety)

Nora is the most mature of the 3 and the one who had the greatest writing disaster post performance accident, she's a mix of the 2 lead females pros and the most refreshing given her handle on personal and relationship matters. Her botched writing makes it hard for me to pin her flaws and she has some like others but she has the least as she is new and is doing things right by actually wanting to form a bond with a MC besides personal gains which is the least I could say for the 2. She is the ideal Wife material the MC needs as unlike the rest she wants to settle down with a significant other and talk/handle things out which is a rarity in the present world, she truly is a gem.

Rion is the one that got away, Maddie is the one chance/opportunity not taken and Nora is the one that came with open arms.

Ambition = Harem. lol, I can see you coming...

No, that was not what I meant and I was clearly aware of the direction you wanted regarding Love interest. Look at this way the MC had a crush for Rion for soo long that he never got over her while Maddie was someone he admired but never thought he had a chance with and this trip started out as a means for all of his friends to have fun and catch up, but along the way he got caught up in some adventure, now up till this point the MC had 2 things to consider the first being him finally able to see and get to know both the girls are human and not perfect with Rion being a hedonistic slut and Maddie being an overbearing and naive person, this is where after having years apart he can see maybe they weren't the right person for him and the second being life is dull and the pull of the unknown is addictive for a curious mind now this part is optional while the former is not.
The MC is only curious in the Maddie route which is frustrating when pursuing other routes. The thrill of discovery and greatness is too great for many men to give up for a peaceful and mundane life, hence why heroes and myths are still famous, for they represent the spirit of men to overcome something and become something greater than what the were.

Seems a lot of people like the evil path, when I make some polls, it usually ends up first or second, lol.
I also enjoy making them, and I laugh a lot at some of my extravagant scenes, so in the end, I don't regret adding those paths which were not planned at the very beginning. Even though it could have been more subtle, I think the endings for those paths have still an interesting story and outcome.

Well, tbh, there are some truths in what carefree said, even if I don't agree with everything and his example was not the best as taken from what I consider an irrelevant path (failure path), but I can see what he means, even If I believe part of it is because he would have preferred a harem structure.

If I'm objective, and I need to, to progress, Sandstorm has indeed many flaws but overall it seems it was still enjoyable for a bunch of people, so it's not that bad .

Glad to see you taking player feedback well.

NO I don't(well not for this game ), I would have preferred Either Nora or Maddie had there been better development into Noras arc in terms of pacing,foreshadowing and MC choices of pursuit for the treasure while prioritizing his friends and desires instead of him simping soo hard on her he gave away his friends, I'd see that fit well for his obsession for Rion but not Nora.
Maddie route does this better but has botched her development where I still cannot see her change as natural plus her overbearing nature in directing is off putting considering her background as a military personnel and her trauma, but yeah I get it she's scared to open up and this causes her to push away, come out as overbearing and act reckless but by the end the change isn't natural and feels half baked.

SandStorm is also some kind of laboratory for me to learn the techniques, try new gameplay aspects and various approaches. So, it is quite right to say it's not very well structured. It's my first game, with 0 previous experience, and after 15/18 months of work (in my free personal time), I can say I'm quite happy and proud of what I achieved even if I obviously made a bunch of bad choices too, but eh, mistakes are something needed to advance. But now, I want to do better for the second episode ^^, and it's safe to say it will be a bit more 'pro'.
I wanted SandStorm to be a different game than the mass, and I believe it does that pretty well, but it ended up being its main weakness and strength at the same time, lol. I also let too many open choices and possibilities of switches. I was looking to make an 'all you can do' game, but it's really too ambitious, especially for a dev that does all this in his free and limited time. It's hard to make it work well for all routes and possible scenarios, and I ended up sacrificing the logic of some of the undefined paths otherwise it was too much of a nightmare to handle and the game would never be finished. Anyway, this was my own choice to make all those paths, no one else to blame lol. And despite this, I'm still making sure the game meets its completion in the best way I can (many would have abandoned, I believe) .

The fact that the MC is too passive is something I heard many times and I can understand that criticism. It was my idea to make him a bit of a follower at first and get more confidence as the adventure progresses (which I believe is the case in Maddie's romance route, maybe not enough in the other routes (evil path excluded)
I can already say that the MC in Episode 2 (SnowStorm) is more proactive/decisive early on (well...once out of prison lol).

Anyway, I obviously learned a lot from making SandStorm and analyzed the past experience to decide how I'm making SnowStorm

There are :
- Aspects I'm not willing to sacrifice because I'm very attached to it, like the main plot, the epic and atmospheric adventure vibes, the depth and character design of the LIs, the media/soundtrack attention, the background and lore.
- Aspects I'm trying to improve with some help (which I hope can be seen in SnowStorm already), ie. the writing, the structure of the game, the sex scenes maybe
- Aspects I compromised/conceded compared to SandStorm to make it more enjoyable for a larger audience: a more proactive MC, fewer genres/tags especially to not mix problematic genres and to avoid making multiple paths just because of tags, simpler and less unpredictable gameplay, and multiple romances will be possible this time.

So in the end, SnowStorm will be a bit different gameplay experience but I believe with the same atmospheric setting and cool girls. Some people will probably still prefer SandStorm original gameplay over the more structured SnowStorm. Some, the contrary. Some both, some none (I hope not lol). Anyway, it will never please everyone so I also made this choice for my development experience, and I believe that is what will keep me developing games for a long time, by constant evolution and not by making 30 times the same thing, or by exploiting an overly used cooking recipe that is too far away from what I want to do.

And to answer the initial question, before I deviated way too much

You usually play/watch Episode 1 before Episode 2, don't you?
So I recommend you to play SandStorm first. Now, if for some reason, you don't like Episode 1, it doesn't mean you won't like Episode 2, if that's the case, it's fully enjoyable on its own. (and I can already relate that many are only interested by episode 2...I don't know if I should be happy or sad for that :/).

At the start of the narrative the evil route was overshadowed by the curiosity of the player in getting to know the cast but overtime as we figured them out we wanted to sate a dark desire to be more than a pleb, you don't make a dark path and not expect people to act out of the norm in a fictional setting where they'd take it in a heartbeat to get out of their boring lives.
The problem with Sandstorm was as you pointed out and are full aware is the MC not being proactive while you miss another aspect.

A good man is not a harmless man, but a dangerous man who has his dark impulses in check

this is why certain Villains become more popular than heroes as a person ages, perfect evidences are popular characers like Darth Vader, Thanos and Arthas Menethil where their popularity outlives and outperforms their heroic counterparts.

My suggestion for EP2 is making the MC more proactive while also building him to be someone who can be perceived as some one of competence and a threat something you've achieved in making Candice and Lady Nox in EP 2, while for the LI to be fleshed out properly with better pacing and development, as the hardest part is not starting but continuing the momentum you built which fell through for Sandstorm for me for both the MC and LI.

 

[Jack Townsend]

Any word on when the final complete version of Sandstorm will be released?

 

[Canto Forte]

Already shipped to fan tier. Gamer tiers will get it once the fans blow enough smoke into this game.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Darkmetal]

Seems a lot of people like the evil path, when I make some polls, it usually ends up first or second, lol.

A well done villain path is always great. I for one hope there is such a path for Snowstorm .

I could have done a more subtle and corruptive approach which will have required a lot more scenes to make it believable and in total a bit too much work for a canon path.

I think what you did was fine. The mistake many games make (and I am talking conventional games here not just adult games) is equate evil with being a two-bit punk. Perhaps, due to self-imposed mechanics, an artificial need is created for the MC to accumulate little evil/dark/sith/renegade points all over the place. That's complete tail-wagging-the-dog. MacBeth or Michael Corleone didn't go around kicking puppies, doing petty crimes or act like in-your-face assholes in normal society. And, since the end goal of the Evil MC is presumably to be an Egyptian demi-god/Viking King, successful or not, the Scottish King/Godfather is the model Evil path. Numerous scenes of doing little evil things, petty betrayals that do not further goals, random cruelty etc. are for those who want to become a street thug. They are completely unneeded and actually counter-productive for the ambitious villain.

Your decision to make a lot of the evil acts pre-endgame be done w/o the presence or knowledge of the games' NPCs/LIs (like using the stone at the pool, going with Bastet in the temple etc.) is exactly the way to do it IMO.

I also let too many open choices and possibilities of switches. It's hard to make it work well for all routes and possible scenarios

As far as evil vs good mc romance paths are concerned, one false dichotomy of games (probably instigated by Bioware) is that bad aligned guys will be attractive to bad girls and good-aligned guys will get the good aligned girls. Bullshit. Anybody really think, for example, that Alexander Pierce (the bad guy in Captain America: The Winter Soldier as portrayed by Robert Redford) couldn't get any "good girls" in bed voluntarily in his younger days? Better example is Billy Russo (Ben Barnes) in the first season of The Punisher. A stone cold killer who exuded menace but still had the charisma to charm the panties right off the "Lawful good" Detective Madani.

Don't self-impose additional workload due to other game's cliches . Evil showing their hand early to all and sundry is fail sauce. There is no reason an evil MC can't get with the "nicest of nice" girl in Snowstorm or vice versa should that be the player choice. As long as path establishment is done with neither witnesses willing to blaber nor the presence of potential LIs (especially easy to establish if the MC is indeed the same one from Sandstorm) all routes with any girl(s) could be made pretty much identical until near the end game.

Anyways, really enjoyed the game and looking forward to trying the next.

 

[Butfate]

I've been getting the u'player' error Everytime the mc speaks in the replay room. How to fix?

 

[Antera]

Just started playing game and already dislike first two LIs, First one makes me feel like simp/couck and second one.. hmm I don't know just don't feel chemistry.. Whole starting setting feels like I am in wrong place. wrong time. MC really is a 4th wheel

 

[Canto Forte]

There has to be some mountain Mc will run across in this game.
What would be the point for smooth sailing?
Game got a name like storm and sand for a reason.
MC has to navigate the relationships and end up in a confy place. Or not.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

Just started playing game and already dislike first two LIs, First one makes me feel like simp/couck and second one.. hmm I don't know just don't feel chemistry.. Whole starting setting feels like I am in wrong place. wrong time. MC really is a 4th wheel

There has to be some mountain Mc will run across in this game.
What would be the point for smooth sailing?
Game got a name like storm and sand for a reason.
MC has to navigate the relationships and end up in a confy place. Or not.

I hadn't drawn that connection, Canto. Well-spotted.

I would also say that I think a lot of the point in the first game is that the MC has clearly been passive in a large part of his past. How long has he pined for Rion, for instance, and done literally nothing, which leads her into the arms of Julian (or any number of past boyfriends)? One of the big parts of Sandstorm specifically is the MC "growing up" and taking charge of his future, both with romance as well as with the events of the game. And "growing up" can mean several things, depending on what choices you make.

 

[Antera]

Ok more I play less I like LI's. I decide to take Maddie route, I am on the buss scene and she is telling me how she dreamt other guy banging her Bitch why?

Edit 1. Now I am day 3 (another playthrough) doing Rion Rout. Since when she managed to fell in love with Nora??

Edit 2. Now doing Nora Rout and I believe word "Love" is thrown out too easily. Know girls less then 48 hour and already love her? come on..

 

[Dunken122]

Ok more I play less I like LI's. I decide to take Maddie route, I am on the buss scene and she is telling me how she dreamt other guy banging her Bitch why?

Edit 1. Now I am day 3 (another playthrough) doing Rion Rout. Since when she managed to fell in love with Nora??

Edit 2. Now doing Nora Rout and I believe word "Love" is thrown out too easily. Know girls less then 48 hour and already love her? come on..

So context is that your character has the choice to fantasize about something in the temple. regardless of your choice, the companion you chose will be passed out, and will have have the dream. The dream itself is likely happening to them because of the ritual that's happening.

I do believe that Nora does get rushed though. I do find the Nora + Rion bit cute though. its not like she doesn't immediately drop it if you are not interested. it also makes sense that Rion might need a second love interest do to how her bf evolves through the story, only really not being a asshat when you are only on Nora's route.

 

[Daastaan007]

It is impossible to keep 50% affinity to each girls.
In the choices they are always negative points, sometimes affinity decrease without anything.

Well, good luck with the game.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

It is impossible to keep 50% affinity to each girls.
In the choices they are always negative points, sometimes affinity decrease without anything.

Well, good luck with the game.

Yes, you're not supposed to. This is not a harem game, and many choices will lower other girls so much that they pretty much don't like you anymore. That's by design in the game.

 

[Canto Forte]

I am breaking that design. Let my love go conquer all - even if I hav ta kill john backstabbing snow
and shower my babes in all the best throbbing cuddly extasy.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

I am breaking that design.

So you are creating a patch that removes conflicts and allows a harem, then? With the vanilla game, you can try to get every girl, but I'm pretty sure you'll miss out on a ton of content by doing so.

 

[Canto Forte]

Gonna use all resoueces in the game angine to give each and every girl most of the love.

 

[SamualHand]

Gonna use all resoueces in the game angine to give each and every girl most of the love.

If you think you can satisfy them with a "game angine", go for it! But I think you should try a different approach