VN Ren'Py Single Again [v1.24.1] [Clever name games]

[MrLKX]

I think we all agree that Becca's behavior towards Lilli is crass, but Lilli is a bit stubborn and thickheaded, especially about her relationship with Frank. She was convinced, until Frank told her who her mother was having the affair with, that her father would return to the family.

Accordingly, Becca had to play hardball to push her towards Frank (sometimes in the truest sense of the word). This was the only way she could getLilli to realize that her biological parents are both massive assholes and not just Shannon.

Accordingly, I wonder if Becca also accelerated the events of the breakup between Lilli and her ex. Both Becca and Frank quickly saw through the guy as being a bit of a douchebag and knew it was going to get pretty ugly sooner or later. Especially considering Lilli's past relationship history. For this to happen, Becca doesn't even have to have actively manipulated Lilli's ex and Lilli's ex-work colleague but just make sure Lilli spends more time with Abby and Frank. The fact that Frank was then forced to inform Abby about her biological father and Lilli had to take care of Abby might have been water on Becca's mills in such a case. This would have the big advantage that no traces lead directly to Becca and she can deny everything in case of doubt. Who would be able to prove any lies?

In the end, Becca made Lilli remember all the things Frank did for her unconditionally. He may not have been the father she wanted all her life, but she eventually realized that he was the idealized father figure she projected onto her biological father, or at least filled that role in a very caring way.

 

[Tavi13]

I think we all agree that Becca's behavior towards Lilli is crass, but Lilli is a bit stubborn and thickheaded, especially about her relationship with Frank. She was convinced, until Frank told her who her mother was having the affair with, that her father would return to the family.

Accordingly, Becca had to play hardball to push her towards Frank (sometimes in the truest sense of the word). This was the only way she could getLilli to realize that her biological parents are both massive assholes and not just Shannon.

It could also simply be that this is the only way Becca knows how to handle the situation with Lilith. She may be/act the most mature out of all of the kids (and most of the adults) but she still learned how to handle situations and interact with people, buy the examples she grew up with. It is almost like a cross between Franks "go with the flow' behavior, and Shannon's ruthless "me first" behavior, and her personal fear of abandonment.

Personally; I think Becca is more terrified of being alone/abandoned than Lilith is and is doing everything she can to make sure it will never happen, even if it means she has to go a little too savage on occasion. Kind of a "the means justify the end" mentality.

 

[MrLKX]

Quite possible. She herself admits that she has daddy issues. Regarding her own bio, it is very likely that she is not the daughter of Lilli's father, unless CNG made a big mistake with the timeline:

Shannon is 39, Becca 23 -> Shannon had Becca at about 16. That makes about the time Shannon had to move away.

She started working at a fast food restaurant after graduating high school, where she met her future husband Trevor, who is Lilli's father.

If we assume Shannon was between 17 and 18 when she graduated high school( as a non-American I have no idea of when high school usually graduates so I have to rely on Google), then Becca will have been about a year and a few months at that point ( Give or Take).

Becca's bio says she was never very close to Trevor (at least I assume he's meant, I find it irritating that he's referred to as her father and can only assume he either adopted Becca at some point, there's a mistake in the timeline, or Becca's biological father might become relevant later).

Reasons for this could be the following:
1. Becca quickly figured out that it doesn't add up mathematically that Trevor is her biological father. Possibly there was also a little defiance from Becca, similar to Lilli and Frank, only more subtle.
2. possibly Trevor never really made an effort to build up a paternal role to Becca. After all, she wasn't his daughter unlike Lilli who was either on the way or already there and was his biological daughter.

Possibly it was a mixture of both, but we can't say that clearly without pictures of the Oxtons' family life from 19 years ago until he left. We can, however, in terms of how callously he reacts to being caught by Frank with Shannon as morally questionable as Shannon is vindictive.

Also, I would say that both of them obviously place little value on Lilli. Shannon could have very easily pulled Lilli over to her side with Trevor and used her (in front of the judge) to really screw Frank over. She could also have used Lilli's friendship with Abby, something like: If Frank is out of the picture, Abby can still stay with us and you won't lose your best friend. That wouldn't have happened, of course, but I have the feeling that such an emotional manipulation with Lilli's weaknesses would be something I would trust Shannon to do and possibly even get Lilli to cooperate.

 

[UncleFredo]

...

Also, I would say that both of them obviously place little value on Lilli. Shannon could have very easily pulled Lilli over to her side with Trevor and used her (in front of the judge) to really screw Frank over. She could also have used Lilli's friendship with Abby, something like: If Frank is out of the picture, Abby can still stay with us and you won't lose your best friend. That wouldn't have happened, of course, but I have the feeling that such an emotional manipulation with Lilli's weaknesses would be something I would trust Shannon to do and possibly even get Lilli to cooperate.

I think you're wrong about this. As Becca explained speaking with Frank about losing lili should he get involved with Abby. Abby will always choose to be with Frank over anyone else. Lilli's not prepared to lose Abby, so eventually she'll fall inline. So there is NO way that Shannon could peal Abby from Frank and no way that Lilli's going to hurt Frank by giving a statement that Abby knows is a lie, to the judge. Lying to the judge would cost Lilli her relationship with Abby. Not to mention Becca would call Lilli on her lie.

 

[Tavi13]

Shannon is 39, Becca 23 -> Shannon had Becca at about 16. That makes about the time Shannon had to move away.

She started working at a fast food restaurant after graduating high school, where she met her future husband Trevor, who is Lilli's father.

If we assume Shannon was between 17 and 18 when she graduated high school( as a non-American I have no idea of when high school usually graduates so I have to rely on Google), then Becca will have been about a year and a few months at that point ( Give or Take).

I did not catch the timeline discrepancy, but that would add a whole new twist to it. 17 -> 18 is the norm for graduating high school here, although there are exceptions. I had a friend that managed it at barely 16, but she worked for it. She took tons of extra classes, plus college course over the summer, that counted towards her HS diploma. However; it is not the norm by any stretch of the imagination, and is something that would have probably been mentioned by this point if it applied to Shannon.

If it isn't a timeline mistake, then either Shannon has never been loyal to Frank (which seems to be in character for the 'her' we have been introduced to), or Becca is actually Franks daughter. Either one will be an interesting twist as the story progresses.....sadly, if it is the latter, then it probably means a ton more future internal dialog and doubts to read through as well.
/sigh.

I put a lot of Shannons behavior towards Becca and Lilith down to her blaming them that Trevor left, especially Lilith (as the youngest). It wouldn't be the first time that has happened. She could also have started really resenting Frank for stepping up to raise another persons kids, and treating them like he did his own rather than siding with her, when Trev abandoned all of them.

 

[MrLKX]

I think as for her father, or rather who her father is, Lilith's father just doesn't add up mathematically - Shannon must have been about 19 when she met Trevor - if the timelines fit.

I have expressed several theses about this in the past:

Frank got Shannon pregnant at some point and her family sent her to her aunt's house when they found out. That would also explain the resentment toward Frank: "You get my worst enemy pregnant, but I have to move away and raise our child almost alone?"

What goes against that: someone here once said that would go against the core idea of this VN, that family is more than just kinship. Which is not story relevant but makes sense in terms of the VN so far.

Shannon is having an affair with a guy. Her family probably thinks Frank got her pregnant and send her to her aunt. Here we don't know how much time they spent together and if Shannon would have had the opportunity.

These two theories are likely from a story-relevant point of view, since they provide a reason why Shannon had to move in with her aunt: the pregnancy of the circa 16-year-old daughter would have "embarrassed" her parents.

Other theories:

Shannon had looked for someone to comfort her after she moved in with her aunt, who got her pregnant. What speaks against it: The time could be very scarce, so that the pregnancy would come temporally and it gives us no reason why Shannon's parents sent her away.

CNG just messed up the timeline and Trevor is supposed to be Becca's father. This could be corrected by changing the ages of Frank, Becca and Shannon by 2 years upwards (Frank and Shannon) or downwards (Becca).

As for the self-doubt: If Becca really is his daughter, then at least here it would more than justify his self-doubt. Which then disproves for me the possibility that she is his daughter: Should she really be his daughter, then I estimate Frank in such a way that he would also go with Lilli and with Abby clearly more on distance, because thereby his self-doubts would have been confirmed.

In the end, I think only Shannon and probably Becca know who Becca's father is (or I trust Becca to have noticed the temporal discrepancy between Becca and Trevor and to have had a paternity test done with a DNA sample from Frank).

 

[Tavi13]

Shannon is having an affair with a guy. Her family probably thinks Frank got her pregnant and send her to her aunt. Here we don't know how much time they spent together and if Shannon would have had the opportunity.

I think that this makes the most sense in terms of both the story (so far) and character personalities (that we have seen). I don't think Shannon would have kept it a secret if she knew Becca was Franks. Whether she told him in the beginning of their second time around saying "this is why my family sent me away" (which could/would have caused other issues such as 'why didn't you ever contact me?'), or threw it in his face during a disagreement later, I just don't think she would have kept it a secret this long.
For that matter; we assume that the 'cest tag is here only due to Frank and the daughters relationship, but who is to say that Shannon didn't get pregnant from a family member? That could explain why she was just suddenly sent away with no warning, and why she never contacted Frank later. If it wasn't exactly consensual it could also explain a lot of her personality quirks, both back in school and now.

 

[YLuffy94]

I think that this makes the most sense in terms of both the story (so far) and character personalities (that we have seen). I don't think Shannon would have kept it a secret if she knew Becca was Franks. Whether she told him in the beginning of their second time around saying "this is why my family sent me away" (which could/would have caused other issues such as 'why didn't you ever contact me?'), or threw it in his face during a disagreement later, I just don't think she would have kept it a secret this long.
For that matter; we assume that the 'cest tag is here due to Frank and the daughters relationship, but who is to say that Shannon didn't get pregnant from a family member? That could explain why she was just suddenly sent away with no warning, and why she never contacted Frank later. If it wasn't exactly consensual it could also explain a lot of her personality quirks, both back in school and now.

YOU JUST BLEW MY FREAKIN MIND. It could be something like that, one of my friends from University had something like that happen to her and she acted like shannon did in the flashbacks of the Highschool/College years and only told me about it when drunk as hell told me she got pregnant by uncle then lost it and hearing her tell the story broke me for obvious reasons. she didnt deserve to have her life destroyed like that, thankfully her uncle was arrested and jailed after he tried the same thing to someone else but was caught before it could happen fully.

 

[Tavi13]

YOU JUST BLEW MY FREAKIN MIND. It could be something like that, one of my friends from University had something like that happen to her and she acted like shannon did in the flashbacks of the Highschool/College years and only told me about it when drunk as hell told me she got pregnant by uncle then lost it and hearing her tell the story broke me for obvious reasons. she didnt deserve to have her life destroyed like that, thankfully her uncle was arrested and jailed after he tried the same thing to someone else but was caught before it could happen fully.

I knew someone that was in a similiar situation as well. Never made it as far as pregnancy, but still fucked them up all the same. I would have never made the connection if MrLKX hadn't caught the timeline discrepancy (which still might just be an accident, and we are all overthinking things), but a lot of the personality quirks would make sense if something along those lines happened.
It would also explain the animosity towards the kids; Becca is a constant reminder of it, Lilith was constantly asking/talking about Trevor who just walked out on all of them, and rather than abusing anyone Frank is acting like a loving guardian to all of them.

 

[Tavi13]

Even if the timeline discrepancy is a mistake, and we simplify the whole thing by running with Becca having the same father as Lilith, Shannons behavior/personality would still be in keeping with having been (at least) verbally abused herself at an early age and then 'abandoned' when she was suddenly sent to live with her aunt.

 

[TNT3]

thank you for a wonderful game love the graphic great story too keep up the great work

 

[Cartageno]

I think that this makes the most sense in terms of both the story (so far) and character personalities (that we have seen). I don't think Shannon would have kept it a secret if she knew Becca was Franks. Whether she told him in the beginning of their second time around saying "this is why my family sent me away" (which could/would have caused other issues such as 'why didn't you ever contact me?'), or threw it in his face during a disagreement later, I just don't think she would have kept it a secret this long.
For that matter; we assume that the 'cest tag is here due to Frank and the daughters relationship, but who is to say that Shannon didn't get pregnant from a family member? That could explain why she was just suddenly sent away with no warning, and why she never contacted Frank later. If it wasn't exactly consensual it could also explain a lot of her personality quirks, both back in school and now.

First, I like your conversation. Am a bit miffed that I didn't stumble over the age inconsistency (assuming it is not) myself, but reading you theorize about the possibilities is very entertaining and dare I say inspirational.

However, as for the tag. Setting aside that some tags are sometimes applied incorrectly and incest is one of them: this comes with what actually is in the game. So a huge surprise later in an otherwise non incest story that something happened wouldn't justify the tag until we see it happening even if within the timeline it already was the past. (Also, a tag cannot be held back because it would be a spoiler) At the same time, the rules on this site define the tag as including non-blood family members like adopted daughters.

So any reasoning about the tag having hidden significance is bound to fail:

It's not the author/dev who decides which tags should be on a thread, but strictly F95's definitions. (Well, in the end it is the author who put everything in, so decided it in a way, but you know what I mean).

Due to these definitions, any sex between MC and Abby, Lil or Becky means the tag must appear no matter who fathered (or maybe even mothered) them.

Also due to these definitions, any not yet disclosed "unexpected fathering" cannot have an influence on the tags.

 

[stangnomez]

In the end, I think only Shannon and probably Becca know who Becca's father is (or I trust Becca to have noticed the temporal discrepancy between Becca and Trevor and to have had a paternity test done with a DNA sample from Frank).

That could also fold into the timeline of the 'five year plan'. Becca is recently 23, 5 years ago would be shortly after her 18th birthday. It could be that she waited until she was legally an adult, and the results of said test inspired her to start her plans on Frank.

 

[Shenaniganzz]

WTF is it with all the girls cutting their damned hair?! It seriously reduces their appeal and needs to be reverted.

 

[hrimthyrs]

...I don't think Shannon would have kept it a secret if she knew Becca was Franks....

Agreed. Even if Shannon didn't know for sure, just that there was a possibility, she would have tried to use it as leverage with Frank once the bitterness over Abby resembling Jessica set in, given how ham-handed her attempts at manipulation have been.

Also, is there confirmation in the game that Shannon graduated or waited to graduate before getting the fast food job? I don't recall seeing that, so she may have gotten the fast food job—either in lieu of finishing school or as a night/weekend job during the final stretch—as well as met Trevor immediately after moving, with Becca being an accident early in the relationship.

 

[MrLKX]

Agreed. Even if Shannon didn't know for sure, just that there was a possibility, she would have tried to use it as leverage with Frank once the bitterness over Abby resembling Jessica set in, given how ham-handed her attempts at manipulation have been.

Also, is there confirmation in the game that Shannon graduated or waited to graduate before getting the fast food job? I don't recall seeing that, so she may have gotten the fast food job—either in lieu of finishing school or as a night/weekend job during the final stretch—as well as met Trevor immediately after moving, with Becca being an accident early in the relationship.

Here her bio.

 

[Tavi13]

First, I like your conversation. Am a bit miffed that I didn't stumble over the age inconsistency (assuming it is not) myself, but reading you theorize about the possibilities is very entertaining and dare I say inspirational.

However, as for the tag. Setting aside that some tags are sometimes applied incorrectly and incest is one of them: this comes with what actually is in the game. So a huge surprise later in an otherwise non incest story that something happened wouldn't justify the tag until we see it happening even if within the timeline it already was the past. (Also, a tag cannot be held back because it would be a spoiler) At the same time, the rules on this site define the tag as including non-blood family members like adopted daughters.

Yeah; I am a bit miffed at myself for not catching it either.

I actually mistyped that part, which isn't surprising for me....I think way faster than I can type. I need to go fix that, good catch!

It should have said "... tag is here only due to Frank...", which is what I was actually thinking. The tag definitely belongs due to the current content, but that doesn't mean that it won't become relevant to future content as well.

*IF* it did occur, and *IF* Becca somehow found out (two very big 'ifs', especially based on what information we do have), it could explain why she is so comfortable with the idea of an incestuous relationship...she found out that she is the product of one. Then again; five years of planning could also explain it

 

[CalamarMaligno]

Maybe the I-tag is for the future when Lilith eats Becca's Taco. It was forshadowed that everyone would eat Becca's Taco.

 

[a1fox3]

Maybe the I-tag is for the future when Lilith eats Becca's Taco. It was forshadowed that everyone would eat Becca's Taco.

That is incorrect about the I-tag, please go read the tag rule for Incest.
Better yet I will post it here again like I have done already several times.
https://f95zone.to/threads/tags-rules-and-list-updated-2021-05-02.10394/

Incest [Sex act between family relatives, including those not related by blood.]

Frank adopted Abby when she was born and until Abby's father called Abby thought Frank was her real father, she still thinks he is her father and the sperm donor is just that and when they meet she will tell him that and to leave her alone.

Now on to Trevor, according to the bio's Trevor is not Becca's father.
Shannon got pregnant with Becca while she was 15 yo and she did not meet Trevor until after she graduated High School and started working for that restaurant chain.

Frank and Shannon dated while they were 15 but Shannon soon after starting dating with Frank was moved away to her aunts house. (Most probably because she was pregnant with Becca.)
Frank could very well be Becca's father but until we know for sure one way or another she could have a different father altogether, Shannon was not very faithful all her life so far as we can see during the story.

 

[CalamarMaligno]

*Completely missing the point of my comment*

Yes, I'm aware that Step-people are counted as Incest. It's a weak excuse to grant the I-tag, but that's the rules. When referenced the Taco scene, where Becca makes some cringy double entendres about her "taco" being eaten by Lilith. It was meant in jest, not to be taken seriously.

Now with that said, a Becca/Lilith/Frank threesome shouldn't be discarded that easily.
Becca's endgame is a family harem, where Francis and "his girls" are all happy together.
The only issue is that Lilith won't share Abby.
So, the only way to "win" is for Lilith to learn how to share Abby. While there is a possibility of Multiple instances of Frank/Lilith sex and Becca mindgames slowly corrupting Lilith to the point that she won't deny Abby this happenis she's feeling (typo complety intended); Becca manipulating Frank and Lilith into a threesome could be a slightly quicker path. Wether the "Sharing is Caring" or "Pecking Order" method is used, the end result is to make Lilith feel selfish for not letting Abby enjoy Frank as she is. Whether Abby loses her virginity to Frank alone or with Lilith present doesn't matter, as long as Lilith is aware of what's going on and gives Abby "her blessing".

Assuming that the FBL threesome happens, having a scene with Lilith eating Becca would give the Taco scene additional significance. Not to mention unlocking TRUE Incest without the "step-people BS excuse"... then again, Having Becca eat Lilith's taco would be a nice payoff to the Taco scene as well.