kristijanEX

Active Member
May 25, 2020
561
946
The "character" level is almost irrelevant. You have to watch for the girl interview level. That goes up pretty quickly if you just keep rating well. You can bang a few girls as early as interview lvl's 2 and 3.
You still have to manually rate some traits even if you have auto rating on if you want faster and more reliable results.
I'm getting level 3 girls, but if I don't upgrade my character level then I can't unlock more groups so I can make girls of different ethnicities in the Profile Editor. I only manually check for the "Skin" stat and if the computer rated some features too highly/lowly, but I don't go into detail to change this stats like I did when I did it fully manually pre 8.0.
 

Cabbages

New Member
Mar 16, 2020
6
6
Well what I mean is like they can keep the body the same but make the face or head more 3d anime like. Like for example you can have a thick or muscular girl but like 3d anime Mikasa(Attack on Titan) face if that makes sense, but like I said before to anyone I still love the game as it is, I don't want anyone to think that I don't but just saying if creator asked me what should be added, then this is it.
 

weakqer

New Member
Feb 25, 2021
3
16
The dev for this game not only took up the mantle of physics, penetration, and behavior. They also went for the interesting rate the girl gimmick. I can't imagine how hard it would be to make this game.
 
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Aquilez

Member
Jun 26, 2019
276
350
There has got to be an easier way of finding the "hot spots." I always do a pat down with the hands to see if I can find a spot where pleasure would rise quickly but it's rare. Favorability is another headache I need to deal with if I can't reliably bring pleasure up fast.

There has to be a cheat that tell you exactly where the hotspots are. The "Can I" cheat options only tells you what you're "allowed" to touch. The Monkey cheat's "sluttify" sliders can get pleasure up fast but I can't use that on the first pat down pass because I need a reliable rating to be saved.

I don't know why you guys are skipping those troublesome ones when any sort of rating will factor into the character generation. There are some ratings that are imposible to find out and I'm pretty sure that screwed up some of my generated characters.
 
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Terut

Member
Nov 16, 2017
471
551
The problem for me is how broad the rate system is. It's like almost 20 options, with a 0-10 on each. It's exhausting trying to determine that for each girl. I think it needs to be a bit simplified. Or, it needs to be sectioned. Like lvl 1 is only judging their face. Then lvl 2 is judging their body. lvl 3 is judging their personality. lvl 4 is judging their private parts.

Something like that.
 

boomshawks

New Member
Mar 19, 2021
11
13
The problem for me is how broad the rate system is. It's like almost 20 options, with a 0-10 on each. It's exhausting trying to determine that for each girl. I think it needs to be a bit simplified. Or, it needs to be sectioned. Like lvl 1 is only judging their face. Then lvl 2 is judging their body. lvl 3 is judging their personality. lvl 4 is judging their private parts.

Something like that.
I'd have to disagree here. While the rating system is complex, it is really the only reason this game has such diverse girls and so much replayability compared to other games. However, unlocking new traits as you level up sounds like a good idea.
 
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b00marrows

Trial Moderator
Trial Moderator
Aug 15, 2017
1,013
1,163
How did you find the right value? I can't seem to find the corresponding value in CE there are simply too many and my usual method did not work. Tried setting the in-game cheat value to 100 and then searching in CE for float value 1.75 then going back in-game and decreasing the 100 value by x amount, then back to cheat engine again searching next for decreased value by x amount. no luck.
Oh yeah took a while to figure it out but the main thing is the game doesnt "update" the value untill you apply than close the cheat menu.
 
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maxdannis

Member
Dec 20, 2020
276
428
The problem for me is how broad the rate system is. It's like almost 20 options, with a 0-10 on each. It's exhausting trying to determine that for each girl. I think it needs to be a bit simplified. Or, it needs to be sectioned. Like lvl 1 is only judging their face. Then lvl 2 is judging their body. lvl 3 is judging their personality. lvl 4 is judging their private parts.

Something like that.
Yes this. Also there are 800+ actual parameters you are trying to optimize, and you can see all of them in the save editor. 10 bars to control 800+ parameters is difficult. Possible, but you have to understand the problem and work the model, tuning how many parameters you will allow, how the input (rating bars) are attached to parameters, etc.
I'd have to disagree here. While the rating system is complex, it is really the only reason this game has such diverse girls and so much replayability compared to other games.
It's not really an opinion thing on what is wrong with the system.

Genetic algorithms are good for having low inputs (just the dozen or so ratings) and high parameter counts (the 800+ features you see in the save editor), but you still need to "iterate" a sufficient amount of times if you want to have high accuracy. The concept is fine in a broad sense, but the author isn't tuning it. "Iterate" here means rating. The iterations/ratings take an enormous amount of time with the "interview" system for the player to rate the dozens and dozens of girls you need to get what you want. Given we have 800+ parameters and only 10 ratings, the genetic algorithms work better when you have a computer do it for you as fast as possible, possibly thousands of times, which would be like you playing this game for 500 hours.

This isn't the best application of a genetic algorithm or really any machine learning. I think the author just wanted to toy with the concept and misapplied it here. I think it is salvagable, but real core things have to be dealt with.
However, unlocking new traits as you level up sounds like a good idea.
Unlocking traits would be the same as interviewing a lot of girls but only rating using a few bars, leaving the rest zero, if I understand what the game is really doing (it counts a zero as "leave the attached parameters as randomly generated"). Rate only head, face, and hair, leave everything else zero. Do that 30+ times. Then only rate breasts, hip/waist, legs. Do that 30 times. Etc. You can do this now, but its obvious this is still too slow and you still need many, many iterations to make it work. If rating could be done in <5 seconds, removing all the fumbling around with the computer and overlays, and used a very simple 2D interface that was significantly faster it might work. Right now, you have to move around, click "wait a while" or "next day", wait for the fade out, load screen, fade it, move your character around, fumble with the rating overlay again. It's too slow, the cycle time is far too slow to make that viable right now.

The author is doing the wrong things. Autorating and cheats are basically working around the problems instead of dealing with them head on. As great as the wide variety of girls that can show up is, the real problem is the parameter count is far too high for how many iterations you can get.

1. The parameter count has to drop. Combing shoulder, arm, forearm, hand, and combing thigh, foot, calve, etc. These are OBVIOUS fixes to reduce parameter count and have no gameplay value. I feel it would be fairly trivial to cut the parameter count by 75% and not really affect the variety in the game, unless you just feel having girls cum instantly when you touch their forearm but get instantly 100% pissed off if you graze their shoulder is compelling gameplay. I don't think it is compelling gameplay at all, and the constant confusion by players seems to be evidence it is not good gameplay.

2. The iteration speed has to increase. The player needs to be able to rate more girls much faster. Autorating was an attempt to do this, but I don't think it really speeds it up much because its more about time fumbling around in the 3D space or having to slowly and painfully and carefully touch the 3 pixels of the "knee" to see if she'll either want to kill you or cum instantly, and is still the wrong approach. Maybe just rendering a dozen girls, you click portaits to fill your "queue" of girls, something like that would work better, or improve the UI/UX so you can quick press buttons to go to the next girl, make dismiss instant/faster, remove a bunch of forced delays in the conversation system, etc.

3. It's really a combination of both of the above. The fewer parameters you have, the fewer iterations needed to "focus in" on the result the player wants, and vice versa. Again, I feel parameter count is the bigger problem, and there are so many super obvious fixes here.

Autorating system was simply a mistake on time and effort by the author. The cheats were also just a bad workaround for the 98% chance of glass or angry girls that should've been a proper normalization or remapping of the parameters involving anger/sensitivity behavior. The core gameplay can be fixed with attention to the correct fixes. Right now, every new player is only frustrated by the fact they can rate for dozens of hours and still get bad results, and have to have constant detailed instructions on how to rate to make it maybe work. Or players end up having to use save editors, or load other people's saved girl cards to completely skip the core gameplay.
 

Daxter250

Forum Fanatic
Sep 17, 2017
4,684
13,110
Yes this. Also there are 800+ actual parameters you are trying to optimize, and you can see all of them in the save editor. 10 bars to control 800+ parameters is difficult. Possible, but you have to understand the problem and work the model, tuning how many parameters you will allow, how the input (rating bars) are attached to parameters, etc.

It's not really an opinion thing on what is wrong with the system.

Genetic algorithms are good for having low inputs (just the dozen or so ratings) and high parameter counts (the 800+ features you see in the save editor), but you still need to "iterate" a sufficient amount of times if you want to have high accuracy. The concept is fine in a broad sense, but the author isn't tuning it. "Iterate" here means rating. The iterations/ratings take an enormous amount of time with the "interview" system for the player to rate the dozens and dozens of girls you need to get what you want. Given we have 800+ parameters and only 10 ratings, the genetic algorithms work better when you have a computer do it for you as fast as possible, possibly thousands of times, which would be like you playing this game for 500 hours.

This isn't the best application of a genetic algorithm or really any machine learning. I think the author just wanted to toy with the concept and misapplied it here. I think it is salvagable, but real core things have to be dealt with.

Unlocking traits would be the same as interviewing a lot of girls but only rating using a few bars, leaving the rest zero, if I understand what the game is really doing (it counts a zero as "leave the attached parameters as randomly generated"). Rate only head, face, and hair, leave everything else zero. Do that 30+ times. Then only rate breasts, hip/waist, legs. Do that 30 times. Etc. You can do this now, but its obvious this is still too slow and you still need many, many iterations to make it work. If rating could be done in <5 seconds, removing all the fumbling around with the computer and overlays, and used a very simple 2D interface that was significantly faster it might work. Right now, you have to move around, click "wait a while" or "next day", wait for the fade out, load screen, fade it, move your character around, fumble with the rating overlay again. It's too slow, the cycle time is far too slow to make that viable right now.

The author is doing the wrong things. Autorating and cheats are basically working around the problems instead of dealing with them head on. As great as the wide variety of girls that can show up is, the real problem is the parameter count is far too high for how many iterations you can get.

1. The parameter count has to drop. Combing shoulder, arm, forearm, hand, and combing thigh, foot, calve, etc. These are OBVIOUS fixes to reduce parameter count and have no gameplay value. I feel it would be fairly trivial to cut the parameter count by 75% and not really affect the variety in the game, unless you just feel having girls cum instantly when you touch their forearm but get instantly 100% pissed off if you graze their shoulder is compelling gameplay. I don't think it is compelling gameplay at all, and the constant confusion by players seems to be evidence it is not good gameplay.

2. The iteration speed has to increase. The player needs to be able to rate more girls much faster. Autorating was an attempt to do this, but I don't think it really speeds it up much because its more about time fumbling around in the 3D space or having to slowly and painfully and carefully touch the 3 pixels of the "knee" to see if she'll either want to kill you or cum instantly, and is still the wrong approach. Maybe just rendering a dozen girls, you click portaits to fill your "queue" of girls, something like that would work better, or improve the UI/UX so you can quick press buttons to go to the next girl, make dismiss instant/faster, remove a bunch of forced delays in the conversation system, etc.

3. It's really a combination of both of the above. The fewer parameters you have, the fewer iterations needed to "focus in" on the result the player wants, and vice versa. Again, I feel parameter count is the bigger problem, and there are so many super obvious fixes here.

Autorating system was simply a mistake on time and effort by the author. The cheats were also just a bad workaround for the 98% chance of glass or angry girls that should've been a proper normalization or remapping of the parameters involving anger/sensitivity behavior. The core gameplay can be fixed with attention to the correct fixes. Right now, every new player is only frustrated by the fact they can rate for dozens of hours and still get bad results, and have to have constant detailed instructions on how to rate to make it maybe work. Or players end up having to use save editors, or load other people's saved girl cards to completely skip the core gameplay.
im pretty sure, a lot of things are still placeholders. the way the algorithm works feels very early phase and i bet it will change over the time. i mean, we don't even have a "did not rate" rating, making manual rating a fucking chore. 0 by the way means: "absolutely hate / never wanna see again. if you send away too many girls with 0 rating everywhere, you will get a weird and ugly as hell mushed up girl at some point. auto profile really helps out here. i personally hope though that we will get a pool of favorite girl types for the auto profile, basically telling the game i like e.g. small girls with small tits but also taller girls with small tits and several hair colors, without having todivide them into these groups.

so far you can easily speed up the process of what type of girl you like by using monkey. change the girl the way you want and then rate everything to 10. do this the whole week and you got ya prefered girls next week.
 
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Thora

Member
Jan 2, 2018
348
1,076
There has to be a cheat that tell you exactly where the hotspots are.
My original plan with Monkey was to add 'xray glasses' to overlay hotspots on the model. That is... until I looked at the game code - haven't yet found a way to do this without rewriting parts of the game itself.

The Monkey cheat's "sluttify" sliders can get pleasure up fast but I can't use that on the first pat down pass because I need a reliable rating to be saved.
Once sluttified, ratings should reflect the new behavior. I.e. rate all personality traits as 10. Same goes for appearance - adjust sliders to your preferred look, then rate the corresponding items 10.

-T-
 

Aquilez

Member
Jun 26, 2019
276
350
The problem for me is how broad the rate system is. It's like almost 20 options, with a 0-10 on each. It's exhausting trying to determine that for each girl. I think it needs to be a bit simplified. Or, it needs to be sectioned. Like lvl 1 is only judging their face. Then lvl 2 is judging their body. lvl 3 is judging their personality. lvl 4 is judging their private parts.

Something like that.
What we need is a skip option for ratings we can't find or can't be bothered to look for. A zero rating is not a skip, I think.
 
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Artificier

Newbie
Jun 18, 2017
71
40
Hello guys, do you know if Monkey v1.4.1.1 works with this new 0.8.2 version of SMA ? Thanks :)

EDIT: I just tested it, it seems to work just fine. I didn't encounter any issues
 
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Thora

Member
Jan 2, 2018
348
1,076
...
The author is doing the wrong things. Autorating and cheats are basically working around the problems instead of dealing with them head on.

1. The parameter count has to drop.

2. The iteration speed has to increase.

Autorating system was simply a mistake on time and effort by the author.
...
Those are valid concern/suggestion, and I would suggest posting this on TValle Discord. I'm not sure this thread is monitored.

I like the idea of a visual 'menu' of girls available so you can screen before interviews. All girls could be auto-rated and assigned a score. You just mark the ones you want to interview. This should allow you to iterate through hundreds of girls to quickly get the look you want. 'Breaking' models should be part of the core gameplay - not a side effect of the genetic algorithm.

Edit: I've posted the model menu suggestion and credited you on TValle idea board.

-T-
 
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