Recommending Story-first games

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realjitter

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One of my favourite games on this site, Intertwined, just had its Chapter 9 update! I loved it and also kinda hated it! Quick thoughts below.

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Sadly, ~80% of this chapter wasn't available to me as it focuses on Cara and Nikki's routes, and I'm on neither. The rest is 90% a flashback to when MC met Iris, and a few short scenes elsewhere.

Still, it was a great chapter. Shame we'll have to wait another six months to see that cliffhanger resolved, though. What did you guys think of it? :)
Never played that game so i guess i'm gonna check it out...
What makes it one of your favourites?. Because for some reason just by looking at the pictures and reading the summary i have a feeing that i wonI't like it...no idea why though
 

jufot

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What makes it one of your favourites?. Because for some reason just by looking at the pictures and reading the summary i have a feeing that i wonI't like it...no idea why though
Let me just link you to my earlier posts in this thread here and here :)
 

desmosome

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Sep 5, 2018
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I've spent pretty much the entire day playing through Intertwined's latest chapter. Honestly, it's a work of art. Superb writing, and the possible variations of each scene due to different character interactions is immense. I have four saves now (Erynn, Alexis, Layla, Elena) and I'm quite sure there is at least 20% of the chapter I haven't seen. Given the complexity, I was surprised how few bugs there were, and Nyx quickly fixed them throughout the day.

One thing to note is that I never dated more than one LI per save, so all inter-LI conflicts were born out of family (e.g Alexis and Layla) or friendship (e.g Alexis and Erynn), never cheating. That definitely limits which scenes I could get.

Anyway, I know there are a few Intertwined fans here, so I'm curious what y'all think :)
I've played intertwined long ago, like up to the reveal that Alexis has ties to Eyrnn and Layla. I guess it didn't quite grab me enough to keep going update by update, but I've been meaning to get back to it one day.

I got a question though. I like the potential for conflict and cheating. Is there some prolonged relationship/cheating dynamics, or is it more like an immediate fallout that leads to picking one girl or possibly even losing everything like Rockstar?
 

jufot

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I got a question though. I like the potential for conflict and cheating. Is there some prolonged relationship/cheating dynamics, or is it more like an immediate fallout that leads to picking one girl or possibly even losing everything like Rockstar?
The conflicts are prolonged, intricate, and IMHO very well written. You can lose not just romantic relationships, but friendships as well. The cheating is - unfortunately - limited to the MC. Nyx wanted LIs to be able to cheat as well (it would have been more realistic), but she was shouted down.
 
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realjitter

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Let me just link you to my earlier posts in this thread here and here :)
Alright you definitely got me interested =)

- There are non-LI women. Some even in existing relationships. This is never presented as some sort of affront to the MC, it's simply the state of the world.

-Nyx wanted LIs to be able to cheat as well (it would have been more realistic), but she was shouted down.

So close to something awesome :p
 
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desmosome

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Sep 5, 2018
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Hmm... got around to playing Detective Necro. I liked it. This is basically the third iteration of the wizard harem story, and it was by far the best one. I couldn't stand Sorcerer because the MC was about as animated as dry paint. Reluctant Archon was a little too pandering. This one got it just right I think.

The structure is much better too. The noir mystery will anchor the story and propel it forward as the MC comes to grips with his new powers. I liked that there was no obvious immersion breaking discrepencies in the police procedural side of things.

The world building is pretty cool. I love Shadowrun. I am not a huge fan of no-stakes harem which this is certainly setting up for, but eh... it didn't get on my nerves so far. As long as they don't bend over backwards to try and explain why all the girls have eyes only for the MC, I can usually just go with it.

I think the sex scenes were decent. If my choice is limited to vanilla scenes, I do prefer this slightly male dom tinted version of vanilla.

I guess I was slightly annoyed by the expressions. It's not the worst offender among these games, but it does lean towards the extreme side of facial expressions. Too many devs have no subtlety in this regard and just go wild on the sliders lol...
 
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Raife

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Hmm... got around to playing Detective Necro. I liked it. This is basically the third iteration of the wizard harem story, and it was by far the best one. I couldn't stand Sorcerer because the MC was about as animated as dry paint. Reluctant Archon was a little too pandering. This one got it just right I think.
I share your sentiment about _Sorcerer_, desmo. Jufot loves it because of the world building (which I admire as well)... but the sex scenes and relationship dynamics are wooden. Necro sounds like it's worth a look.
 
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Raife

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Alright you definitely got me interested =)

- There are non-LI women. Some even in existing relationships. This is never presented as some sort of affront to the MC, it's simply the state of the world.

-Nyx wanted LIs to be able to cheat as well (it would have been more realistic), but she was shouted down.

So close to something awesome :p
I enjoy _Intertwined_ and admire Nyx a great deal. (One of the LIs in that game is on an all-time favourites list.) She is a brilliant dev who puts up with an unholy amount of 'helpful suggestions' (i.e. shitposting) from the distinguished patrons (mouth-breathing morons) of this august website (gaping maw of a hellsite). Those 'helpful suggestions' have not made her output better... she has chosen to make a few compromises to serve the marketplace

My one serious gripe about the game is that there are too many LIs, particularly in the 'step siblings' subplot that I feel is an unnecessary distraction from the main plot and characters.

The sex scenes, though... are exceptionally good and some are off the charts. In particular, she is brilliant at conveying the nuances of female desire. So hot... :love:
 
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Raife

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Although I've been doing this for a while, I see a lot of people on my game threads who have never heard of me before. So I'm guessing the tags impact me in a similar way as less established Devs. I just grow tired of people getting bent out of shape because a tag is there when they don't think it should be or one is missing when they think it should be there.

There's even disagreement about how much content justifies a tag. For instance, if you've got a game with 20 major scenes and one of them involves a foursome between two couples, should there be a "swinging" tag? If you're the kind of person who is so against swinging that when you see it in a game, you delete the game and never play anything by that Dev ever again, (yes, I've seen that happen) then hell yeah, you need the tag. But if you're someone looking for "swinging" content and you play the whole game for one scene at the end, you're disappointed and accuse me of putting the scene in just to trick you into playing my game (even though the game was written before F95 existed...). I swear, there's no winning.

I guess that's the real problem. Some people use tags to protect themselves from seeing content they don't want to see, and some people use tags to find content they want to see more of. That almost guarantees conflict.

Tlaero
Thanks, Tlearo -- this is really interesting. I understand your frustration with tags on this site; I hadn't considered that a large number of people might be encountering your work for the first time and be misled by bad tags. (I feel a bit like Jack Black's character in _High Fidelity_: "you morons haven't heard of Tlaero... _the_ Tlaero!?")
 
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bacienvu88

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The conflicts are prolonged, intricate, and IMHO very well written. You can lose not just romantic relationships, but friendships as well. The cheating is - unfortunately - limited to the MC. Nyx wanted LIs to be able to cheat as well (it would have been more realistic), but she was shouted down.
Unfortunate, since Nyx is one of few devs who is able to do cheating well. Usually I avoid cheating / NTR in games because it mostly is done for shits and giggles in a "haha, sucks to be you, cuck" sort of way instead of exploring the emotional impact and repercussions of said cheating on the characters involved.
My one serious gripe about the game is that there are too many LIs, particularly in the 'step siblings' subplot that I feel is an unnecessary distraction from the main plot and characters.
Too many LI:s are very common (including mainstream games such as Mass Effect 2). I prefer to have more content with a few LI:s over lots of LI:s with small amount of content. To really get to know the characters.
 

jufot

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May 15, 2021
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It has barely been mentioned on this thread, but I recently gave Callisto a second chance. I first tried it about a year ago, and bounced off hard. I'd found the sandbox grating, and having important story bits turned into an optional prologue didn't inspire confidence.

Now that the game has been completed, I decided to play it from scratch. It turns out, there is a very good sci-fi story here. It reminded me of Mass Effect 2, which is no small feat. The crew of the titular ship have distinct personalities, and their stories are greatly expanded upon with side quests, very much like the loyalty missions of ME2. The galaxy feels large and alive. So many interesting races built around various sci-fi tropes.

The porn is worth some praise too. On F95, the game has a harem tag, which just doesn't apply to Callisto and is a source of controversy over on that thread. You can have casual NSA sex with most, but no one is willing to be in a non-exclusive relationship with you. There is a bisexual couple who are willing to have fun with you occasionally, but you can't join their relationship (I'm looking at you, BaDIK), nor can you break them up. At the end of the story, you have to choose who you want to be with and, crucially, the ones you don't pick can go on to have other relationships. That's a bold move from a developer, judging from the reactions on the game thread.

Overall, Callisto felt very much like a story-first game, so I've updated the OP :)
 

moskyx

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Jun 17, 2019
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It has barely been mentioned on this thread, but I recently gave Callisto a second chance. I first tried it about a year ago, and bounced off hard. I'd found the sandbox grating, and having important story bits turned into an optional prologue didn't inspire confidence.

Now that the game has been completed, I decided to play it from scratch. It turns out, there is a very good sci-fi story here. It reminded me of Mass Effect 2, which is no small feat. The crew of the titular ship have distinct personalities, and their stories are greatly expanded upon with side quests, very much like the loyalty missions of ME2. The galaxy feels large and alive. So many interesting races built around various sci-fi tropes.

The porn is worth some praise too. On F95, the game has a harem tag, which just doesn't apply to Callisto and is a source of controversy over on that thread. You can have casual NSA sex with most, but no one is willing to be in a non-exclusive relationship with you. There is a bisexual couple who are willing to have fun with you occasionally, but you can't join their relationship (I'm looking at you, BaDIK), nor can you break them up. At the end of the story, you have to choose who you want to be with and, crucially, the ones you don't pick can go on to have other relationships. That's a bold move from a developer, judging from the reactions on the game thread.

Overall, Callisto felt very much like a story-first game, so I've updated the OP :)
If Callisto can make it to your list with all the trading and traveling in the sandbox parts, now you only need to give Superheroes Suck a go and we'll be just fine. ;)
 

jufot

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If Callisto can make it to your list with all the trading and traveling in the sandbox parts, now you only need to give Superheroes Suck a go and we'll be just fine. ;)
Fair enough, I'll add it to my backlog ;) Although I should mention that the trading, scraping and travelling (except to/from quests) are largely avoidable in Callisto.
 

Raife

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May 16, 2018
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Overall, Callisto felt very much like a story-first game, so I've updated the OP :)
I'll just cheekily observe that you seem to love sci-fi and fantasy settings as much as you dislike college-story games. :cool:

But I'll give _Callisto_ another try. I enjoyed the intro to the game, but was confused/annoyed by the sandbox and trading aspects, where the interface was clunky in the extreme. If that has been fixed in the final version, I'm very interested.

Once again, per my exchange with Tlaero, we seem to have another clear misuse of tags: uncommitted relationships simply _are not_ a harem and _should not_ earn a 'harem' tag. Jeez... that does everyone a disservice, not least the dev.

Have you tried Reunion? It has a very simple, character-driven story... but there are a number of anti-porn trope elements that stand out:
  • The MC has a genuinely caring, amusing relationship with his older brother.
  • There is no annoying, pointless, out-of-character incest... the MC simply loves his mother and sister-in-law, and has entirely platonic feelings towards them.
  • All the LIs have fairly compelling backstories and a claim on the MC's interest and affection.
  • Relationship dynamics are realistic... and the dev has breadcrumbed plenty of hurt and disaster if you try to lead on two (or more!) LIs at the same time. Eventually, you will need to choose... but if you choose too late, you might lose your chance with everyone (as in life).
  • There's a sense of jeopardy: some of the LIs are in a fragile state, so if you mistreat them there might be serious consequences... both for them and for the MC (who has his own baggage).
  • No insta-sex. We're two acts in to a four act game, and there's none of that porny nonsense. There's plenty of desire, longing and flirting, though.
Plus, the art style is appealing... it reminds me (and many other players) of _Archer_.
 
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moskyx

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I'll just cheekily observe that you seem to love sci-fi and fantasy settings as much as you dislike college-story games. :cool:

But I'll give _Callisto_ another try. I enjoyed the intro to the game, but was confused/annoyed by the sandbox and trading aspects, where the interface was clunky in the extreme. If that has been fixed in the final version, I'm very interested.
The trading and salvaging part has been the same since I remember (I started translating it after 0.4, I think). There's now a guide to help you out but is not very clean. I didn't find it difficult to get into it, though, especially once you get help from Tiffany to show you all the prices together - sometimes it can feel like a chore but I used to alternate between trading and salvaging to make it a bit more interesting, with salvaging being the less tedious way of making money, and in the end you only need to grind it for a couple of ship upgrades and a certain real state you may be willing to purchase for one of your girls. Either way, you can just bring the map view and look for the stars that indicate there's a cutscene available, and fast-forward time when you don't see any. Side missions can make you earn some extra bucks too, so you can neglect the trading aspects (girls' mood improves when you share bigger profits with them, but having them happy by not neglecting them in your sheets is far more important).
 
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jufot

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I'll just cheekily observe that you seem to love sci-fi and fantasy settings as much as you dislike college-story games. :cool:
Right on both counts :cool:

But I'll give _Callisto_ another try. I enjoyed the intro to the game, but was confused/annoyed by the sandbox and trading aspects, where the interface was clunky in the extreme. If that has been fixed in the final version, I'm very interested.
Not sure if it has been fixed, as I have no point of reference, but most of it is avoidable. You only really need funds for some ship upgrades, which you can pay for with a handful of salvage missions. No need to bother with trading at all. You should also make use of the walkthrough mod, which helps immensely. Everything else is covered by moskyx's comment :)

Once again, per my exchange with Tlaero, we seem to have another clear misuse of tags: uncommitted relationships simply _are not_ a harem and _should not_ earn a 'harem' tag. Jeez... that does everyone a disservice, not least the dev.
Indeed. There are a bunch of people on the game thread who are very angry at the dev for not making it an actual harem. I'd post a snarky comment encouraging them to ask for refunds, but then I get hate mail, so...


Have you tried Reunion? It has a very simple, character-driven story... but there are a number of anti-porn trope elements that stand out:
[...]
Plus, the art style is appealing... it reminds me (and many other players) of _Archer_.
Never heard of it before, no. Everything you listed sound delightful, and for once the MC seems age appropriate for me :D I also do love Archer so, why not :)
 
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bacienvu88

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I'll just cheekily observe that you seem to love sci-fi and fantasy settings as much as you dislike college-story games. :cool:
The great advantage of sci-fi and fantasy is that dev actually needs to have thought through the setting and thus more likely the story beforehand. In difference to a school setting which seem to be the default when dev does not have much of an idea what to do.
 
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Raife

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Indeed. There are a bunch of people on the game thread who are very angry at the dev for not making it an actual harem. I'd post a snarky comment encouraging them to ask for refunds, but then I get hate mail, so...
It's an iron law of F95: those who have contributed absolutely nothing to supporting the game or the dev will be the most outraged, obstreperous and whiny when the dev does something they don't like...

(...as in the entire _Hillside_ thread... I sometimes think Dark Blue includes porny head-fakes in the game simply in order to cause his non-supporters on this site to lose their shit. If so, awesome. :cool:)
 

bacienvu88

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Have you tried Reunion? It has a very simple, character-driven story... but there are a number of anti-porn trope elements that stand out:
Thanks for the suggestion. Great game so far!
  • Relationship dynamics are realistic... and the dev has breadcrumbed plenty of hurt and disaster if you try to lead on two (or more!) LIs at the same time. Eventually, you will need to choose... but if you choose too late, you might lose your chance with everyone (as in life).
Except that in real life, the one you chose might not work out so well and then you lose your chance with everyone anyway. In dating sims, your chosen one always seem to work out in the end. And in real life timing matters a whole lot since it is pretty rare that you suddenly get many potential partners vying for your attention at the exact same time as is usually done in porn games.
  • There's a sense of jeopardy: some of the LIs are in a fragile state, so if you mistreat them there might be serious consequences... both for them and for the MC (who has his own baggage).
And I'm not sure getting into a relationship with those is a good idea. Especially Annie there is a high potential for disaster even if you treat her right. But I'll trust the dev that this is not going to be the usual porn game trope that a girls problems is solved simply by getting into a relationship / having sex with them.
 

noping123

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Excuse my rambling here, I'm an overtired insomniac at the moment. (Surprisingly not a joke. Insomnia fucking sucks. I wish it on no one.)

I'll start by saying, everyone is entitled to their own preferences/etc. That's pretty much a given, and seriously fuck people who do the whole "stop liking what I don't like" shit. I hope no one reading this is one of those - if you are, fuck off. That said.........
I'll use my own game as a point of reference here. Not that it's the worlds shiniest example of anything, but it's the one game where I can 100% vouch for the intentions behind things - while I suspect many devs have done things in the past for similar reasons, I can't that for sure, so I'll just use myself - but mostly I think some stuff applies to a lot of people.


Ok so first.
The great advantage of sci-fi and fantasy is that dev actually needs to have thought through the setting and thus more likely the story beforehand. In difference to a school setting which seem to be the default when dev does not have much of an idea what to do.
I don't know about that. The game I'm working on right now isn't in a school setting - but the one I *really* want to do after, is. It definitely wasn't some sort of "default" sort of thing. I chose the setting in that story for two reasons. #1 - let's be honest, it ticks a LOT of boxes for people. My current game ticks almost none, so I'm not just all about that "gotta get that money!" lifestyle, but still. #2 - The setting is central to the story. I actually built a tiny little game (no images, text only- I hadn't learned daz yet) and had it on this site for a bit, that served as a sort of prologue, but it seems to have been lost to the annals of time. Suffice to say, it being in a school setting was actually relevant. I suspect most people who go for it, do it for two reasons. First, and the reason I'm less comfortable with - some people just want characters as young as possible. Second, it puts you in an enviroment where it's easy to bring the characters together - you don't have to rely on contrived circumstance, coincidence, or other nonsense. Yea, there's other ways to bring them together, but it's definitely easier in a setting that actually forces them together.

No insta-sex. We're two acts in to a four act game, and there's none of that porny nonsense. There's plenty of desire, longing and flirting, though.
I don't really see a problem with insta-sex. I know I do it myself(in my game that is), and I definitely don't see it as "porny nonsense". I know when I was in my 20s... (I won't date myself any more than that. But yea...) I know I was fucking everything that moved. Sex on a 1st or 2nd date was not uncommon. Some of those people I formed relationships with.... some I didn't. I don't see why a game should be any different. I totally get some people want something a bit more emotional, or drawn out, or other stuff like that, but I definitely wouldn't classify it as "porny nonsense", cause I did it, and let me tell you, a porn star I am not.

The characters in my game tend to have sex fairly quickly. This is for two reasons if I'm being honest. First, the game is quite compact (for me. As you can see I tend to be verbose.) I'm about halfway through (chapter-wise... about 1/3rd or so in every other way), and I'm only 4 releases(about 6 months) in. I did move a few things, particularly in the relationship category a little faster than I would have wanted to, in the name of not making the game massively bigger than I wanted, and still having the back end of the story (where I think most of the real meat of it is) make total sense. The second reason is... I'm just writing my experiences. A *LOT* of this game is either based on, or inspired by real life. 90% of the stuff in my game, is stuff that actually happened to either me or people I know. Now granted, it didn't all happen to 1 person, nor was it in such a small time span, but still. Gotta make concessions somewhere I guess. Actually I should say like 50%. 90% of it is heavily inspired by actual events, but I definitely did take quite a few liberties. Some for reasons of trying to put together a better story, some because.... well as I think we all know, real life sucks sometimes, and I didn't want *too* much of that in a game.



As far as Intertwined goes.... man do I have a hate boner for that game. It's not warranted - it's a solid game for sure, but playing it made me feel like I was going through the porn version of dawson's creek. There was just WAY too much coincidental drama for my tastes.




Tags suck. Seriously. God they're awful. Half the tags aren't correctly applied, the other half everyone argues over the meaning of. I'm not gonna argue in favor of deleting them entirely, but..... idk if that would be better or worse?


I think this is a thread every dev should read through. Even if they're making the most porn-trope game in history, where the story is literally something like "You've been challenged by a god to fuck 100 women by the end of the week... or DIE". They'd still get a better sense of what people who play that would probably enjoy - just by looking at the most common things the people here generally DON'T. (Or at least disqualifying criteria, even if you do like it.) For everyone else, there's mastercard. Wait no that's not right. Oh well, moving on.



Oh god. There was NTR discussion in this thread. Quick, someone set those pages on fire.


I had a lot of other thoughts, but insomnia has rattled my brain a bit and they've since gone poof. I do know tomorrow is my "last day before I start working on my next chapter, so I'm going to spam play every game I can manage to find that looks even remotely worth my time" day. I've already pulled a few from this thread (as well as a couple of updates I never got around to), so hopefully I find a gem or two in there.



I'm mildly perturbed that I can't find a copy of that "prologue" game I mentioned earlier... basically the story was just an introduction to the MC, and his girlfriend, on the day of their high school graduation. Typical "Yay we're done with high school" stuff. Then at the end of the prologue, the MC wins the lottery. Him and his GF move into a nice house, they sign up for their dream colleges (because hey now they can afford it), flash forward a couple months, first day of college - of note, they were planning on going to different schools. Her an art school, him a standard "university". Her first day is "today", his is a few days later. She goes in, he hangs at home, has some breakfast, chills for a bit. Turns on the TV, in comes the "Special news bulletin".
The news is a mass shooting at his GF's school. Suffice to say, she died. ..... And that's the prologue. The actual story would pick up about a year after her death, and a school setting is pretty integral to the plot from that point on.

Anyway, none of the above is actually relevant, except to show that a school setting isn't just used because a dev ran out of ideas. Sometimes, it *IS* the idea. Some day I hope to have a chance to tackle that story, it was the one I initially wanted to when I first got into this until I realized just how absolutely massive in scope it was, so I backtracked and went with the one I'm working on instead. If I have any luck at all, maybe this time next year I'll be working on it.


Ok I've rambled way too much, I'll step away now. And maybe go try to bang my head into a wall until I pass out.
 
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5.00 star(s) 8 Votes