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Recommending Story-first games

5.00 star(s) 8 Votes

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
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3,519
But the game i enjoyed the most was corporate culture, the game had quite a unique premise and was very well written and Elsa has become one of my favorite characters in AVNs as she is quite unique among the female characters of AVNs, i really hope we get the choice of pursuing her as our main LI because so far Alice doesn't really seem that interesting.
Yesss, couldn't agree more! Corporate Culture has been discussed extensively here, and has several fans among us.

I was going to recommend some games but i found most of them had already been suggested and rejected except for Superhuman
Thanks for the recommendation! I see a few personal red flags amongst the tags (rape, mind control), but others here might like it :)
 

ARB582

Active Member
Jan 6, 2018
548
329
Thanks for the recommendation! I see a few personal red flags amongst the tags (rape, mind control), but others here might like it
Ahh those are red flags for me as well, but the game gives you complete control over what scenes you wanna see, IIRC you can skip most if not all sex scenes in the game
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,244
14,052
That's a shame. The reason Callisto's sandbox didn't annoy me was the ship overview screen. You could see who is where, see which rooms have new content, and skip time, all without leaving that screen. It made navigation very fast. Superheroes is the complete opposite of that :(
Some months ago he asked in his patreon about what we thought about the game's pacing, as he had been focusing on adding shorter events with the girls to advance the plot:
I've been speeding things up two main reason: one because I would like the plot to move at more than a glacial pace, and because a critique I often received was that the game was going too slowly.

What do you all think? Are you happy with the game's overall pace? Should I be taking it slower? Maybe this is the right speed? Maybe I should go faster?
Well, the way I see it, the pacing problem is not due to having longer and slow-burn scenes instead of shorter and more dynamic ones, but to everything that happens between scene and scene. The damned sandbox. So I took the chance to point him at several parts of the game where the story was actually demanding an immediate follow-up on certain events, a quicker response from MC and/or Missus Powell, or maybe an auto-trigger for next scene, because waiting for the Sunday's class (or having to spend a whole week with another girl you may have neglected for too long) just to trigger the next step is illogical from a narrative point of view, thus breaking the immersion and seriously damaging the game's pace. I guess I didn't express myself too well since he only insisted that he was aware of how tedious it was to wait for Sunday classes so he wanted to plague the sandbox with little things to do instead of just clicking the advance button. Which won't help with the problem, but will only aggravate it: even repeatable sex scenes feel out of place at some points of the story, so what being able to use the laptop is going to add, besides some minor worldbuilding aspects? Just more nonsensical roaming and rage for not being able to keep advancing the story.

So dev basically sees the game as a collection of related scenes in a false sandbox environment, but he seems unable to understand that he's actually creating a visual novel with flavour choices. When you have to advance all the girls' storylines in a balanced way because you won't be able to advance the main story otherwise, having the option to choose which girl do you want to spend time with becomes a poor design choice that actually hurts the final product. Oh, well. Writing is still good.
 

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
1,562
3,519
So I took the chance to point him at several parts of the game where the story was actually demanding an immediate follow-up on certain events
Right, there are so many points where the sandbox nature of the game ruins immersion like that. The one that was most disorienting for me was Harper's nighttime sex scene in the kitchen immediately after her mother was kidnapped. I get it, the sex scene is a repeatable one disconnected from the story, but having it available immediately after receiving such devastating news hurts the story. Same with all the other sex scenes after that event. Oh, well. Like you say, at least the writing is good.
 

Logan_2validd

New Member
May 2, 2022
2
5
I'm interested in games where the story takes precedence over everything else. My personal criteria are:

  • Well-designed, internally consistent, coherent story with a beginning and an end - i.e. no games where the devs make shit up as they go along.
  • Characters that are actual human beings, with lives, personalities and interests outside the MC.
  • Sex scenes should serve the plot, not vice versa. If there is no story-relevant reason for a scene, it shouldn't be there.
  • No Engrish. Non-native speakers are fine (I am one), but the dev should at least use Grammarly or LanguageTool.
  • No cheap tropes (e.g every female character lusts after the MC's magical dick).

Games I've already played that - IMHO - mostly fit the above criteria, in alphabetical order: (last updated May 2022)
Any other suggestions in the same vein?

Being A Dik (Made by the same guy who made Acting Lessons)
University of Problems
Sunshine Love
Chasing Sunsets
Heart Problems
Savior
Stay True Stay You

These are also really good visual novels and should give them a try
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,244
14,052
He also has found a sweet 6-weeks development cycle and has made public a defined roadmap for the game's story, so I'm a happy patron
 
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realjitter

Member
Jun 21, 2021
297
372
I wanted to bring up AMFA one last time

Note to myself "don't write about games before you finished reading them" :p

So i made it to the end of AMFA and to my surprise the game completely fell apart. It was even worse than that it went from fun, little, innocent game to like a women humiliation simulator....
As it turns out this is a harem game afterall (if you approach multiple girls), but the way the developer introduces it was just..i don't even know what to say about this..
At the end of C.6 there was this Halloween party and i was on a "sologirl" route (Harlow) up until then which ends up with you having sex with her...awesome right?. But i was a little sus about the game at that point and i wanted to see how this Halloween party plays out when you approach many girls at once...
And yeah, it was dumb, really dumb..it turned every dialog into somekind of comedy..
I'm not gonna go into details because i ultimately hope people are capable of acknowledging what they are reading.

Well, at the end of the day it turns out that Vanessa, the woman i critized for being "cold" and all that a couple of pages ago in this thread here is the unsung hero of this game (at least until she hopes onto the MC's dick) because she's right about the MC, even more than she realizes..( assuming you go the all/multiple girls route)
And yes, her being apprehensive towards the MC is not because she knows and has a good judgment of character, no...It's because she fullfiles the role of the "hard to get" girl, but i don't care...
Go go go Vanessa you're awesome (unti the writer gets you :p)

Quick example about the "harem" route

Girl : I don't know, you really like me?
MC : Of course i do, i like you very much if you know what i mean
Girl : What about all the other girls? they all seem to like you...i don't want to intrude something
MC : Oh, dont' worry about it, i'll make it work
Girl : How so?
Mc : I'll talk to them, i'll figure it out
Girl: Oh, that's so awesome, a girl like me...I mean, i don't really know you, but hey, i'll do anything for you because you're so awesome

Girl leaves and goes home and the MC talks to the next girl (Harlow who's of course a shy girl and doesn't have much experience when it comes to sex) who confesses that she'd like to fuck him tonight and she'll be waiting for him downstairs..
Next scene the MC goes to yet another girl (Riley) and flirts with her, holding her hand and telling her that he'd like to go on a date with her tomorrow and maybe more. The girl says : Oh of course , you're the greatest guy in town, cu tmr... (Girl leaves)

(inner monolog) "This girl is great, i really like her., let's see what happens..hehehe....
Right afterwards he goes downstairs to fuck Harlow..They're not actually fucking, just petting, but that doesn't matter..

Alright, so to give a final opinion on this game i'd say it's pretty solid on a solo run if you can overlook a couplef things regarding the MC (he's like a street fighter meets model in the making meets soon to be a psychologist...), but astonishingly naive and bad on the "Harem" route..like what the fuck
 
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Logan_2validd

New Member
May 2, 2022
2
5
There is two games i really recommend but its not on this site tho

(Onceinalifetime)

(Fresh Women)

these are two amazing games and you should definitely give it a try

Some amazing gams on this site is

https://f95zone.to/threads/university-of-problems-v0-9-0-extended-dreamnow.65957/ (University of problems)

https://f95zone.to/threads/sunshine-love-ch-2-v0-01-5-extras-mrdots-games.49330/ (Sunshine Love)

https://f95zone.to/threads/chasing-sunsets-v0-5b-stone-fox-studios.62625/ (Chasing Sunsets)

https://f95zone.to/threads/savior-v0-10d-purple-fellas.40217/ (Savior)

https://f95zone.to/threads/my-pleasure-v0-25a-elite-tasty-pics.42223/ (My Pleasure)

https://f95zone.to/threads/a-o-a-academy-ch-5-beta-tlggames.62139/ (AOA Academy)

https://f95zone.to/threads/stay-true-stay-you-v0-3-0-danson.47493/ (Stay true stay you)

https://f95zone.to/threads/heart-problems-v0-5-final-xenorav.63437/ (Heart problems)
 
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Tlaero

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Nov 24, 2018
1,068
5,251
I got an interesting discussion for y'all. "Am I being too biased against Harem?" Alright, here me out.
Your self-reflection is great, and I agree that this is an interesting discussion.

I think we should treat things like "Harem," "NTR," and if we're honest with ourselves, "Story First" like movie genres. Some people like Musicals. Some people like Superhero movies. It's possible to hate Musicals and therefore not like a great one. ("I would like it if they would just sing less!")

For the most part, it would be a rare game indeed that successfully mixed Harem and Story First, just like it would be a rare movie that mixed superheroes and musicals (I can think of one example of that, though).

It's not that Harem is BAD. It's that we're Story First fans on this thread, so Harem is just something we don't like. I'm sure that there are a bunch of Harem fans that hate all the useless words that we Story First fans enjoy.

Tlaero
 

bacienvu88

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2021
1,714
3,182
I wanted to bring up AMFA one last time

Note to myself "don't write about games before you finished reading them" :p

So i made it to the end of AMFA and to my surprise the game completely fell apart. It was even worse than that it went from fun, little, innocent game to like a women humiliation simulator....
As it turns out this is a harem game afterall (if you approach multiple girls), but the way the developer introduces it was just..i don't even know what to say about this..
At the end of C.6 there was this Halloween party and i was on a "sologirl" route (Harlow) up until then which ends up with you having sex with her...awesome right?. But i was a little sus about the game at that point and i wanted to see how this Halloween party plays out when you approach many girls at once...
And yeah, it was dumb, really dumb..it turned every dialog into somekind of comedy..
I'm not gonna go into details because i ultimately hope people are capable of acknowledging what they are reading.

Well, at the end of the day it turns out that Vanessa, the woman i critized for being "cold" and all that a couple of pages ago in this thread here is the unsung hero of this game (at least until she hopes onto the MC's dick) because she's right about the MC, even more than she realizes..( assuming you go the all/multiple girls route)
And yes, her being apprehensive towards the MC is not because she knows and has a good judgment of character, no...It's because she fullfiles the role of the "hard to get" girl, but i don't care...
Go go go Vanessa you're awesome (unti the writer gets you :p)

Quick example about the "harem" route

Girl : I don't know, you really like me?
MC : Of course i do, i like you very much if you know what i mean
Girl : What about all the other girls? they all seem to like you...i don't want to intrude something
MC : Oh, dont' worry about it, i'll make it work
Girl : How so?
Mc : I'll talk to them, i'll figure it out
Girl: Oh, that's so awesome, a girl like me...I mean, i don't really know you, but hey, i'll do anything for you because you're so awesome

Girl leaves and goes home and the MC talks to the next girl (Harlow who's of course a shy girl and doesn't have much experience when it comes to sex) who confesses that she'd like to fuck him tonight and she'll be waiting for him downstairs..
Next scene the MC goes to yet another girl (Riley) and flirts with her, holding her hand and telling her that he'd like to go on a date with her tomorrow and maybe more. The girl says : Oh of course , you're the greatest guy in town, cu tmr... (Girl leaves)

(inner monolog) "This girl is great, i really like her., let's see what happens..hehehe....
Right afterwards he goes downstairs to fuck Harlow..They're not actually fucking, just petting, but that doesn't matter..

Alright, so to give a final opinion on this game i'd say it's pretty solid on a solo run if you can overlook a couplef things regarding the MC (he's like a street fighter meets model in the making meets soon to be a psychologist...), but astonishingly naive and bad on the "Harem" route..like what the fuck
Thanks for the update. Haven't played the latest update, so good to know the direction it takes.
 

bacienvu88

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2021
1,714
3,182
Your self-reflection is great, and I agree that this is an interesting discussion.

I think we should treat things like "Harem," "NTR," and if we're honest with ourselves, "Story First" like movie genres. Some people like Musicals. Some people like Superhero movies. It's possible to hate Musicals and therefore not like a great one. ("I would like it if they would just sing less!")

For the most part, it would be a rare game indeed that successfully mixed Harem and Story First, just like it would be a rare movie that mixed superheroes and musicals (I can think of one example of that, though).

It's not that Harem is BAD. It's that we're Story First fans on this thread, so Harem is just something we don't like. I'm sure that there are a bunch of Harem fans that hate all the useless words that we Story First fans enjoy.

Tlaero
I've been replaying the Elsaverse omnibus the last couple of days. The first four games there focus on a different couple each time. I think that fact contributes to how great those games are. Imagine that instead there was only one MC who need to choose between Elsa, Jessica, Miranda and Chloe as is usually done in AVN:s. Or that MC gets a harem of the girls. From my point of view either of those would make the games worse.

I am not sure exactly what my point is with this. But I feel that just the basic premise that the MC is someone who chooses one partner from a smorgasbord of available partners is limiting to a game that truly wants to be story first. It is not just about harem or no harem.
 

Tlaero

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Nov 24, 2018
1,068
5,251
Thanks bacienvu88!

It's certainly harder to write a compelling story about one guy choosing between many. I'm a little nervous to see how my Toro 7 experiment will work out.

Tlaero
 

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
1,562
3,519
I'm a little nervous to see how my Toro 7 experiment will work out.
So far, I'm of two minds about it.

On one hand, it allows you to develop multiple characters that might not have had much screen time in a more linear / on rails story. It also pushes you outside your comfort zone, maybe? Always a good thing, I reckon.

On the other hand, it presents a dilemma with - as far as I can tell - no clear best answer. There are a limited number of time slots per day, so the player necessarily misses out on most dialogue in any single playthrough. Which means that you either make the game "winnable" no matter what you choose (in which case, character dialogues have no impact / are just for flavour), or you put meaningful and mutually exclusive choices with each character, and effectively punish players for making / not making them.

Obviously, you chose the former. It's the easier, and arguably better choice for a Tora game. I've always thought of your games as mostly kinetic novels because choices have obvious right answers. That's not a bad thing at all. On average, KNs have much better stories than VNs.

However... I think the idea of limited time slots have much bigger potential than what you use them for in Toro 7. It's an opportunity for presenting players with mutually exclusive, impactful choices that don't have obvious right answers. Of course, that would require a much more complex, branching story, potentially with multiple, distinct endings.

I don't personally value replayability when it doesn't affect the outcome of the story. If it's just for flavour, like it is in Toro 7, I only play it once with choices that are immediately appealing to me. Once the story ends, I have no motivation left to start again just to see a few different lines or images. But that's just me :)
 

Tlaero

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Nov 24, 2018
1,068
5,251
My model is Mass Effect. The choices you make will impact who/if you romance, but you'll be able to solve the mystery regardless of who that is. The limited slots impact the romance, but not (really) the mystery. I'm guessing there will be 3 types of players, and I'm fine with all three.

1) People who play through once and romance one character.
2) People who play through 3 times to romance each of the characters available to their gender/orientation.
3) People who play through 9 times to romance everyone.

(Although, the gallery suggests that there may be a reason for one more playthrough...)

Tlaero
 

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
1,562
3,519
I guess my problem is that I have to give up non-romantic character development if I want to pursue romantic interactions. For example, playing as the heterosexual man, I still want to talk to Keith about hydroponics, Mali about ocean biology, and Aisha and Denver about engineering. But if I do that, I can't pursue Stef or Ariana :)
 

Raife

Active Member
May 16, 2018
620
1,081
My model is Mass Effect. The choices you make will impact who/if you romance, but you'll be able to solve the mystery regardless of who that is. The limited slots impact the romance, but not (really) the mystery. I'm guessing there will be 3 types of players, and I'm fine with all three.

1) People who play through once and romance one character.
2) People who play through 3 times to romance each of the characters available to their gender/orientation.
3) People who play through 9 times to romance everyone.
I tend to fall between 1 and 2... with a bias towards 1.

One of the (many) things that I love about your games, Tlaero, is that you tend to have a strong emphasis on a few romance options for your MC, or one romance option and one disaster/wild scenario.

I think that allows you probe and unravel your MC and other (LI and non-LI) characters' personalities quite deeply, relative to games that have a very large number of LIs. I'm not saying that games with large casts of potential LIs cannot be well written, with creative, deep stories and characterization... it just strikes me as a much more challenging task for the dev. Then again... it's not as if you've ever lacked ambition as a storyteller!

At any rate, I'm excited about Toro!
 

Vasin

Member
Nov 20, 2018
268
337
I tried Callisto on recommendation and so far my porn trope gauge is at about 7.5/10 which is unexpected. Granted I only looked at prologue but so far I'm not particularly impressed with everyone except an established couple throwing themselves onto MCs magic dick. Maybe it's just a pitfall of developer wanting to grab audience's attention, I'll check the story further but otherwise it would be enough for me to drop the game. Renders are great though.

P.S. I'd also suggest giving "Between Two Worlds" at least a cursory review, if Callisto made it there, I feel like BTW at least deserves a chance.
 

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
1,562
3,519
Granted I only looked at prologue but so far I'm not particularly impressed with everyone except an established couple throwing themselves onto MCs magic dick.
I don't remember that couple jumping onto the MC in the prologue? If anything, while Rachel doesn't mind a bit of adultery, it takes considerable time for Alice to warm up to the MC.

Maybe it's just a pitfall of developer wanting to grab audience's attention, I'll check the story further but otherwise it would be enough for me to drop the game.
That's fair, and I've dropped games for less. I recommended this game here because the relationships, while porny, are still better than most.

P.S. I'd also suggest giving "Between Two Worlds" at least a cursory review, if Callisto made it there, I feel like BTW at least deserves a chance.
This has been recommended here a few times, but I just can't get past some of the genres mentioned in the description :confused: Specifically, "corruption, sleep sex, blackmail, humiliation, sexual harassment, slave" are big turn-offs.
 
5.00 star(s) 8 Votes