Ren'Py Completed SuperPowered [v0.45.02] [Night City Productions]

[Thisisfunny]

A couple more tech demos have come out. I think the dev has or is about to go back to Loser for the next couple of months. So next chance might be in Jan 2023. Based on the progress, I'd guess at least two more cycles, so more likely May.

Truthfully, I'm not following the development very closely though. The game mechanics shown so far are not to my taste.

Could you talk more about the game mechanics and why they are not to your liking. Also where can I go to see them for myself?

 

[sillyrobot]

Could you talk more about the game mechanics and why they are not to your liking. Also where can I go to see them for myself?

The tech demo is available via a pinned link on the discord.

I could go on for quite a while on the game mechanics. Instead, I'll talk about one that jumped out at me immediately.

One of the new conceits is Billy has power slots. Each morning you choose power ranks up to your slot count. Only those ranks are available to the player that day and only those ranks count for flaw expression.

So if you have 4 slots (which is what I had in case that turns out to be variable), you can have 3 ranks of Mind Control plus 1 rank of Sympathic Link or 1 rank each of Enhanced Senses, Flight, Indomitable (renamed Armor of Terra?), and Kinesis, for example. Since there are a dozen powers each with 3 ranks, that makes somewhere around 20,000 combinations. (It's not 36 choose 4 as you need to take ranks in order thus is it much closer to 12 to the 4th power).

What does this mean for the game?

1) Since you have a finite number of slots, adding a new power or rank to a power has a declining value. Each rank selected consumes an opportunity cost, so increasing the pool of choices has a smaller value once the pool of choices grows past the slot count. This substantially limits the specialness of Billy. Yes, he can theoretically choose from all known power sets, but he's still limited in effective power expression. He's much closer in potential power to any other paranormal. He has breadth rather than depth.

2) Slot choice strongly dictates what Billy can do in the day. So, foreknowledge becomes key. Also, since the powers are a mix of effectively passive (defensive, movement, and divinatory) and active choice (attack powers including Mind Control) this places a strong emphasis on choosing the right set each morning. This either places strong pressure to not have unanticipated events or strong pressure to play through a day multiple times.

3) Since the number of power combinations is too large for typical mammalian brains, you'll have the players building "typical" selections and will find those cluster around a much smaller set that conforms to preferred play style. You'll find a strong de-emphasis of passive effects (like those that keep you alive in combat) except for those few days where such effects are vital.

In effect this simple addition converts the game from a focus on strategic collection to tactical assignment with automatically refreshed resources. I find tactical assignment games (especially those without an active human opponent) mostly boring. Either I've chosen well and therefore might succeed or I've chosen poorly and will fail. I'm much more drawn to strategic collection games or games where tactical choices are not automatically refreshed (i.e. consumable resources that require effort and/or luck to recover).

 

[Thisisfunny]

The tech demo is available via a pinned link on the discord.

I could go on for quite a while on the game mechanics. Instead, I'll talk about one that jumped out at me immediately.

One of the new conceits is Billy has power slots. Each morning you choose power ranks up to your slot count. Only those ranks are available to the player that day and only those ranks count for flaw expression.

So if you have 4 slots (which is what I had in case that turns out to be variable), you can have 3 ranks of Mind Control plus 1 rank of Sympathic Link or 1 rank each of Enhanced Senses, Flight, Indomitable (renamed Armor of Terra?), and Kinesis, for example. Since there are a dozen powers each with 3 ranks, that makes somewhere around 20,000 combinations. (It's not 36 choose 4 as you need to take ranks in order thus is it much closer to 12 to the 4th power).

What does this mean for the game?

1) Since you have a finite number of slots, adding a new power or rank to a power has a declining value. Each rank selected consumes an opportunity cost, so increasing the pool of choices has a smaller value once the pool of choices grows past the slot count. This substantially limits the specialness of Billy. Yes, he can theoretically choose from all known power sets, but he's still limited in effective power expression. He's much closer in potential power to any other paranormal. He has breadth rather than depth.

2) Slot choice strongly dictates what Billy can do in the day. So, foreknowledge becomes key. Also, since the powers are a mix of effectively passive (defensive, movement, and divinatory) and active choice (attack powers including Mind Control) this places a strong emphasis on choosing the right set each morning. This either places strong pressure to not have unanticipated events or strong pressure to play through a day multiple times.

3) Since the number of power combinations is too large for typical mammalian brains, you'll have the players building "typical" selections and will find those cluster around a much smaller set that conforms to preferred play style. You'll find a strong de-emphasis of passive effects (like those that keep you alive in combat) except for those few days where such effects are vital.

In effect this simple addition converts the game from a focus on strategic collection to tactical assignment with automatically refreshed resources. I find tactical assignment games (especially those without an active human opponent) mostly boring. Either I've chosen well and therefore might succeed or I've chosen poorly and will fail. I'm much more drawn to strategic collection games or games where tactical choices are not automatically refreshed (i.e. consumable resources that require effort and/or luck to recover).

Wow what you said makes me want to never try the 2nd one.

 

[sillyrobot]

Wow what you said makes me want to never try the 2nd one.

I don't think it is a terrible design, just a design style I've seen before and know I don't like and doesn't feel well-connected to how the original games operate. I know people who prefer refreshing tactical games more than collection or consumable games. I just find such games require less strategic game play and can, if done well, require a fair amount of fiddly tactical play.

 

[FinalZero]

this is my save i okay new game again to get Tamara all good and i use mod Radioactive Mod
i try use SFC Mod but it not work on game ver 0.45.03 yet

 

[Strec]

I don't think it is a terrible design, just a design style I've seen before and know I don't like and doesn't feel well-connected to how the original games operate. I know people who prefer refreshing tactical games more than collection or consumable games. I just find such games require less strategic game play and can, if done well, require a fair amount of fiddly tactical play.

It's just a commercial design. Making a game difficult enough to force you to try and re-try and re-try permits mask the general lack of content and to make the need of crownfunding longer.

Second this seems to remove any random cause you must plan each day, knowing exactly what will happen on the day (or completly fumble the day) and, in my mind, something without random can difficultly beeing named a "game", it's nearer to the use of a spreadsheet

 

[sillyrobot]

It's just a commercial design. Making a game difficult enough to force you to try and re-try and re-try permits mask the general lack of content and to make the need of crownfunding longer.

Second this seems to remove any random cause you must plan each day, knowing exactly what will happen on the day (or completly fumble the day) and, in my mind, something without random can difficultly beeing named a "game", it's nearer to the use of a spreadsheet

It's a design I've seen in other types of games. To use a crude analogy, it is similar to the difference between AD&D 1e or 2e (a combination of consumable and difficult to replace resources and strategic decisions about what to engage) with 4e (very limited reliance on consumable resources working much more with tactical auto-replenishing resources and relying more heavily on tactical positioning within a situation). A lot of games have no or very limited random chance -- take go or chess for examples. They tend to replace randomness with (seemingly) intelligent action and reaction or have the player battling an uncaring environment to achieve a specific goal under a timer.

Wrt your second point, yeah. That part of my second point. "This either places strong pressure to not have unanticipated events or strong pressure to play through a day multiple times." The dev places pressure on what he can introduce because tossing a untelegraphed encounter at Billy will almost certainly place Billy in a situation he cannot win or even retreat from. It pressures the player to restart the day if something unanticipated happens as well -- Since power selection is so limited (1 max rank and 1 min rank, 2 partial rank, 1 partial rank + 2 min rank, or 4 min rank) finding the day offers an unforeseen opportunity or threat means the player should consider reverting to a save and either hoping it doesn't reoccur while taking the same power set or taking more appropriate powers and hoping it does reoccur.

I think both of those pressures play against the base superhero genre and thus any game using it as a base. They can be decent design decisions in a genre where the protagonist is especially proactive and the environment is either static or reacts to him, but the superhero genre tends to have the protagonist reacting to changes in the environment. Imagine in SP getting pulled into the final Pixie caper with ranks of Mind Control and 1 rank Enhanced senses. There's not a lot Billy could do or offer because the situation is so unexpectedly different from what the player planned for the day and combat would be quick and decidedly not in Billy's favour. The dev is in a position where encounters have to be designed such that every Billy has some chance of success and therefore no threat can be large enough to take out Billy without the appropriate defence and so weak as to potentially fall to a Billy regardless of appropriate offence -- which undercuts the purpose of acquiring the powers in the first place.

 

[Strec]

A lot of games have no or very limited random chance -- take go or chess for examples. They tend to replace randomness with (seemingly) intelligent action and reaction or have the player battling an uncaring environment to achieve a specific goal under a timer.

I agree with that but I can't really compare because I never had the objective to fuck the queen or the pawns in a go or chess game

 

[sillyrobot]

I agree with that but I can't really compare because I never had the objective to fuck the queen or the pawns in a go or chess game

LOL look at sex chess on Steam.

 

[Mikey_Boy101]

Wrt your second point, yeah. That part of my second point. "This either places strong pressure to not have unanticipated events or strong pressure to play through a day multiple times." The dev places pressure on what he can introduce because tossing a untelegraphed encounter at Billy will almost certainly place Billy in a situation he cannot win or even retreat from. It pressures the player to restart the day if something unanticipated happens as well -- Since power selection is so limited (1 max rank and 1 min rank, 2 partial rank, 1 partial rank + 2 min rank, or 4 min rank) finding the day offers an unforeseen opportunity or threat means the player should consider reverting to a save and either hoping it doesn't reoccur while taking the same power set or taking more appropriate powers and hoping it does reoccur.

I think both of those pressures play against the base superhero genre and thus any game using it as a base. They can be decent design decisions in a genre where the protagonist is especially proactive and the environment is either static or reacts to him, but the superhero genre tends to have the protagonist reacting to changes in the environment. Imagine in SP getting pulled into the final Pixie caper with ranks of Mind Control and 1 rank Enhanced senses. There's not a lot Billy could do or offer because the situation is so unexpectedly different from what the player planned for the day and combat would be quick and decidedly not in Billy's favour. The dev is in a position where encounters have to be designed such that every Billy has some chance of success and therefore no threat can be large enough to take out Billy without the appropriate defence and so weak as to potentially fall to a Billy regardless of appropriate offence -- which undercuts the purpose of acquiring the powers in the first place.

Power selection is only limited if you don’t buy Focus at the beginning of the character creation. If you purchase two Focus options you will get 8 slots to play with instead of the base 4. So thats 2 max rank powers 1 partial rank, 1 max rank 2 partial ranks 1 min rank, 4 partial ranks, or 8 min ranks. There are more combos but those are the best examples.

I see your point though about not being fully prepared for a fight you had no idea would occur. Now, I am assuming that the planned superhero base that Baal is going to make would be like a command center that keeps an eye out for criminal activity similar to the Justice League Satellite. If that were the case players could choose when they fight crime and choose powers that they would use to fight crime for the day.

On side a note I like that you can choose what powers you have because it means you can choose what flaws you have for the day. If you don’t choose Mind Control you won’t find Maggie or Stephanie attractive so you can recover your Willpower at home. Or, watch the alternate scenes where Maggie or Steph might have Nymphomania/Obsessive and have sex with poor Billy against his will. It can also be helpful in combat because the flaws of Kinesis and Indomitable wrecks your Willpower when taking and dealing damage.

 

[sillyrobot]

Power selection is only limited if you don’t buy Focus at the beginning of the character creation. If you purchase two Focus options you will get 8 slots to play with instead of the base 4. So thats 2 max rank powers 1 partial rank, 1 max rank 2 partial ranks 1 min rank, 4 partial ranks, or 8 min ranks. There are more combos but those are the best examples.

I see your point though about not being fully prepared for a fight you had no idea would occur. Now, I am assuming that the planned superhero base that Baal is going to make would be like a command center that keeps an eye out for criminal activity similar to the Justice League Satellite. If that were the case players could choose when they fight crime and choose powers that they would use to fight crime for the day.

On side a note I like that you can choose what powers you have because it means you can choose what flaws you have for the day. If you don’t choose Mind Control you won’t find Maggie or Stephanie attractive so you can recover your Willpower at home. Or, watch the alternate scenes where Maggie or Steph might have Nymphomania/Obsessive and have sex with poor Billy against his will. It can also be helpful in combat because the flaws of Kinesis and Indomitable wrecks your Willpower when taking and dealing damage.

The purchases at the beginning, with the exception of the power ranks, appeared to do nothing in the copy I tried. I picked up all the Will bonuses, but Billy's Will was still shown as 1 on the stats page and attempting Mind Control was laughably pitiful. I spent 2 whole days attempting to affect Maggie with rank 3 Mind Control and only managed to irritate her. I assumed that there was a problem with stats and that I was supposed to find other tactically beneficial circumstances to actually use the power effectively, but instead bailed at the end of the second day since I saw no way to have fun.

It doesn't matter whether you have 4 slots or 8, really. The effect is generally the same. You pick 1 to 2 narrow specialties and have 1 to 2 minor effects in addition. Billy grows in potential breadth -- he has options to exercise every morning that control his focus for the day -- but not in depth or resilience. Anything "off-script" will put pressure on the player to reload. The dev is under pressure to limit the amount "off-script" since that a) deliberately undercuts player agency and b) increases the potential variance in results by widening the probable slot choices and thus the range of Billy's competence.

I dislike the ability to control Billy's flaws for exactly the same reason. It undercuts the strategic downside to purchasing a power set and turns strategy into tactics.

 

[Strec]

At least the game will have the F95 tag "freebox" as you can choose something everyday

But the impression I have is that we lost a lot of freedom in gameplay compared to the current SP.

 

[the Morrigan]

Is there a list out there about the topics to talk about with NPCs ta gain their favour? To me it is super annoying to try and try again (reloading, of course), and I am not able to remember it or write it down for every character in the game - this really is a stupid and repetetive mechanism. Boring.

Doesn't taking two or three levels of Enhanced Senses basically tell you which conversation topics improve each of the three affection stats?

 

[sillyrobot]

Doesn't taking two or three levels of Enhanced Senses basically tell you which conversation topics improve each of the three affection stats?

Once you get their number, yeah. But by that time, you've had to figure it out! One drawback of using the phone as the information conduit.

 

[pbam]

The tech demo is available via a pinned link on the discord.

I could go on for quite a while on the game mechanics. Instead, I'll talk about one that jumped out at me immediately.

One of the new conceits is Billy has power slots. Each morning you choose power ranks up to your slot count. Only those ranks are available to the player that day and only those ranks count for flaw expression.

So if you have 4 slots (which is what I had in case that turns out to be variable), you can have 3 ranks of Mind Control plus 1 rank of Sympathic Link or 1 rank each of Enhanced Senses, Flight, Indomitable (renamed Armor of Terra?), and Kinesis, for example. Since there are a dozen powers each with 3 ranks, that makes somewhere around 20,000 combinations. (It's not 36 choose 4 as you need to take ranks in order thus is it much closer to 12 to the 4th power).

What does this mean for the game?

1) Since you have a finite number of slots, adding a new power or rank to a power has a declining value. Each rank selected consumes an opportunity cost, so increasing the pool of choices has a smaller value once the pool of choices grows past the slot count. This substantially limits the specialness of Billy. Yes, he can theoretically choose from all known power sets, but he's still limited in effective power expression. He's much closer in potential power to any other paranormal. He has breadth rather than depth.

2) Slot choice strongly dictates what Billy can do in the day. So, foreknowledge becomes key. Also, since the powers are a mix of effectively passive (defensive, movement, and divinatory) and active choice (attack powers including Mind Control) this places a strong emphasis on choosing the right set each morning. This either places strong pressure to not have unanticipated events or strong pressure to play through a day multiple times.

3) Since the number of power combinations is too large for typical mammalian brains, you'll have the players building "typical" selections and will find those cluster around a much smaller set that conforms to preferred play style. You'll find a strong de-emphasis of passive effects (like those that keep you alive in combat) except for those few days where such effects are vital.

In effect this simple addition converts the game from a focus on strategic collection to tactical assignment with automatically refreshed resources. I find tactical assignment games (especially those without an active human opponent) mostly boring. Either I've chosen well and therefore might succeed or I've chosen poorly and will fail. I'm much more drawn to strategic collection games or games where tactical choices are not automatically refreshed (i.e. consumable resources that require effort and/or luck to recover).

geezus christ. I thought I was being generous when I said that this game would be finished by the time the heat death of the universe occurs but apparently we have to include the end of reality as a time scale. really hope someone else makes a game with a very similar premise and gameplay to superpowered because it really feels just like milking it at this point. this thing is NEVER going to be finished at the rate it's going.

 

[Troqu]

geezus christ. I thought I was being generous when I said that this game would be finished by the time the heat death of the universe occurs but apparently we have to include the end of reality as a time scale. really hope someone else makes a game with a very similar premise and gameplay to superpowered because it really feels just like milking it at this point. this thing is NEVER going to be finished at the rate it's going.

It's important to remember that there's literally no benefit to trying to keep the scope low and completable. The more planned features you have the more people will let their minds run with the possibilities depending on what features appeal to them the most and paying the whole while. Bonus points if you're vague on the size/scope or even the general concept of the feature. The more people can fill in the blanks on their own the better. Then when people start getting frustrated that x/y/z feature hasn't yet been started/is a stub/hasn't been touched in forever you can trot out the good old "I've learned a lot, now I won't make the same mistakes" and start all over, with a new set of nebulous features to keep people hooked into the machine. This is actually the ideal form for crowdfunding because sadly games that finish even if the creator starts immediately on a new project (or has had them running simultaneously and is only finishing one) almost always results in a loss of subscriptions, whereas a reboot has much less.

 

[Strec]

It's important to remember that there's literally no benefit to trying to keep the scope low and completable. The more planned features you have the more people will let their minds run with the possibilities depending on what features appeal to them the most and paying the whole while. Bonus points if you're vague on the size/scope or even the general concept of the feature. The more people can fill in the blanks on their own the better. Then when people start getting frustrated that x/y/z feature hasn't yet been started/is a stub/hasn't been touched in forever you can trot out the good old "I've learned a lot, now I won't make the same mistakes" and start all over, with a new set of nebulous features to keep people hooked into the machine. This is actually the ideal form for crowdfunding because sadly games that finish even if the creator starts immediately on a new project (or has had them running simultaneously and is only finishing one) almost always results in a loss of subscriptions, whereas a reboot has much less.

Depends if you want to pleasure the community or if you farm the money.

 

[applepie68]

Wait is this game actually complete? It looks like there is so much missing from my session of it.

 

[sillyrobot]

Wait is this game actually complete? It looks like there is so much missing from my session of it.

Complete as in the dev is working on a sequel. Not complete as in the dev didn't fill in marked TO-DO areas.

 

[LeafL]

Complete as in the dev is working on a sequel. Not complete as in the dev didn't fill in marked TO-DO areas.

Does the sequel include the previous story or only the new story