VN Ren'Py Completed SWe1: The Warrior's Heart [v1.0] [Mortze]

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Mortze

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Aug 27, 2017
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I'm super hyped for moar. Any guesses on when?
It may still take a while.
I'm not working on that project alone. I'm first and foremost part of Tora Productions, a team, and Tora Productions output is my first priority. The Warrior's Heart was a solo project I made at time that Tora Productions was on a hiatus. My creativity had to be focused somewhere and this game was born from there.
But now, fortunately, the team is back together which means that I can do several other projects that give me much or even more joy making. I'm speaking about any game done since then, such as Elsaverse: Transitions and Life Changes for Keeley, and anything else our creativity blesses us with.

I am still making the next episode for this game but this isn't my first priority. That will always be Tora Productions games.
 

Mortze

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Aug 27, 2017
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And it's certainly not Tlaero's fault that I chose to prioritize Tora games over my solo projects. Wasn't for Tlaero there wouldn't be any Mortze at all, no Tora games, nothing (not considering her HUGE contribution into inspiring many devs to create with an easy platform and with ideas that showed respect and empathy towards the fair sex). She never asked me to do this or do that but instead stand always by my side, supporting me and helping me with my insecurities, technical deficiencies, coding ignorance, and art insight. She's been a great friend most and all. She never asked anything in return. There's a tremendous factor and benefice in being in a team and that is that one supports one another and challenges one another to do his best. When I work on solo projects, alone, I lack that. I'm facing my shortcomings and sometimes I can't win. To each his own demons and despite Tlaero being tremendously supportive I'm, in the end, the one with the ultimate control of my workflow, and I suck at it. Ultimately, if SW is taking so long it's because of me slacking of, simply put. And because of that I've been asking Tlaero to do other projects together because I miss working with her so much. "Hey, how's SW going on? Do you need help with something?" she asked many times. "Finish the SW game first for the fans." she said countless times. My reply is always "Let's do some Elsaverse stuff in the meantime."

I decide to work on what I love and feel comfortable with at the moment, and most of the cases that means working with my partner. I feel that we bring the best of each other (games wise) and that we are creating original and meaningful stuff.

Oh, and there's this little detail that without Tlaero's support 1 1/2 year ago I'm not sure there would have been The Warrior's Heart at all. She waited for me to finish it, challenging me and supporting all the way, helping with story inconsistencies, code shenanigans, English language, and occasional petting which in my opinion are quirks that define her most; helping making better game devs and helping making better games.
 

yandex

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Oct 17, 2018
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I just wanna say that Mortze, don't sell yourself short. Ofcourse you know yourself better than anyone and as you describe, Tlaero's contribution and influence is pivotal in all of this, however I do want to say that your solo projects themselves are marvelous too. I do get this sense that you dont feel too highly of them, or atleast not as much as your joint collaborations, but they are definitely great works of your own effort. Pandora was the first game which truly led me to seek and try out Visual novels ultimately leading me to this forum, it affected me in a big way which few or any have done since then, and it was your creation. Then I played the elsaverse games and they took their place among my favourites. Back when Tlaero was leaving, I was most disappointed that my favourite games from my favourite devs wont be coming out anymore, but then Warriors Heart was a new rebirth, also your solo creation. For one this helped alleviate my fears of no more games from you people. Although Pandora too was your solo project but back then with Tlaero leaving you didnt plan on doing more solo projects, and working with other people I do think that characteristic feeling of your games would have been lost. You have made a great recovery, with your solo projects and then with Tlaero coming back its back to as good as it was. However the point again, that the games you yourself have created are great games, Pandora and Starwars are definitely among my favourites, even above most Elsaverse games for me personally, for this I strongly wanna say that please dont think anything short of the great projects you have created solo, and if they arent focused on, many fans (including me) would be sorely heartbroken. For instance, if anybody asks me for one adult VN which I would want to see continued, and this is no small thing considering how many great VNs are out there and how many great VNs get abandoned, my one answer would probably be continuation of Pandora (I'll be waiting and hoping, have been for years, that it gets continued). Your solo projects also deserve as much love as others, the characters, worlds, interactions that you have done solo are stellar on their own.
 

Mortze

Member
Game Developer
Aug 27, 2017
123
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I just wanna say that Mortze, don't sell yourself short. Ofcourse you know yourself better than anyone and as you describe, Tlaero's contribution and influence is pivotal in all of this, however I do want to say that your solo projects themselves are marvelous too. I do get this sense that you dont feel too highly of them, or atleast not as much as your joint collaborations, but they are definitely great works of your own effort. Pandora was the first game which truly led me to seek and try out Visual novels ultimately leading me to this forum, it affected me in a big way which few or any have done since then, and it was your creation. Then I played the elsaverse games and they took their place among my favourites. Back when Tlaero was leaving, I was most disappointed that my favourite games from my favourite devs wont be coming out anymore, but then Warriors Heart was a new rebirth, also your solo creation. For one this helped alleviate my fears of no more games from you people. Although Pandora too was your solo project but back then with Tlaero leaving you didnt plan on doing more solo projects, and working with other people I do think that characteristic feeling of your games would have been lost. You have made a great recovery, with your solo projects and then with Tlaero coming back its back to as good as it was. However the point again, that the games you yourself have created are great games, Pandora and Starwars are definitely among my favourites, even above most Elsaverse games for me personally, for this I strongly wanna say that please don't think anything short of the great projects you have created solo, and if they arent focused on, many fans (including me) would be sorely heartbroken. For instance, if anybody asks me for one adult VN which I would want to see continued, and this is no small thing considering how many great VNs are out there and how many great VNs get abandoned, my one answer would probably be continuation of Pandora (I'll be waiting and hoping, have been for years, that it gets continued). Your solo projects also deserve as much love as others, the characters, worlds, interactions that you have done solo are stellar on their own.
Thank you.
But without Tlaero I can definitely say that Pandora wouldn't exist at all. She practically advised me so much on the code part that it is as much as she has done it herself. And she contributed heavily in the writing, particularly in the second part.
I don't try to sell myself short. I just want to remind everyone that she brings the very best of me either making a game together or supporting me fullheartdily when I try something on my own. I feel much better artistically and in competence when I work on shared projects with her.
 

popabear

Member
Jul 11, 2019
316
2,095
I feel much better artistically and in competence when I work on shared projects with her.
Then how did Warrior's heart turn out so fucking good, and the elsaverse stuff kinda mediocre? I get that you don't feel this way and taste is subjective et c, but this is my firm opinion. And it seems I'm not alone.

Warrior's heart has about the same engagement as all the other Tora works combined (counting reviews and likes). And it's only been out a year! That's just completely insane for a 1 episode production! The fact that you've got 88 reviews showering you with praise for this project should tell you something. How are you not seeing that you've struck actual gold here? Don't you see the difference in popular reception?

You're fucking Heisenberg, man, and you're telling us you'd rather go back to teaching high school chemistry. Fans of the blue meth will be upset.

Don't get me wrong, you don't owe us anything. I'm very happy for everything you've given us. Do what makes you happy. I just don't care for the elsaverse stuff at all, and I really really love Warrior's heart.
 
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Mortze

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Aug 27, 2017
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Then how did Warrior's heart turn out so fucking good, and the elsaverse stuff kinda mediocre? I get that you don't feel this way and taste is subjective et c, but this is my firm opinion. And it seems I'm not alone.

Warrior's heart has about the same engagement as all the other Tora works combined (counting reviews and likes). And it's only been out a year! That's just completely insane for a 1 episode production! The fact that you've got 88 reviews showering you with praise for this project should tell you something. How are you not seeing that you've struck actual gold here? Don't you see the difference in popular reception?

You're fucking Heisenberg, man, and you're telling us you'd rather go back to teaching high school chemistry. Fans of the blue meth will be upset.

Don't get me wrong, you don't owe us anything. I'm very happy for everything you've given us. Do what makes you happy. I just don't care for the Elsaverse stuff at all, and I really really love Warrior's heart.
I haven't struck any gold because the whole thing is copyrighted. What it is is just fan-fiction that some people like. Other people don't like it.

That you love SW the Warrior's Hearth and don't like Elsaverse games is legit; as fair as someone liking much more Elsaverse games and not as much SW. What you may see as a downgrade others may see as an upgrade, absolutely the opposite, me being Heisenberg waisting time on a SW game that isn't original and which rights are owned by a agressive mega-corporation.
The success of this game might be illusory or be taken with a grain of salt because it rests on proven material. If it has lightsabers that's already a win for some people (including myself).

So yeah, as much as I appreciate opinions about personal tastes that definitely will never be what inspires me to go here or there.

And you are mistaken. Overall, all the Elsaverse games considered, they have had much more acceptance and praise than this SW game. And why is that? Because it's original, well written and polished.
Perhaps the best compromise should be putting lightsabers in the hands of the Elsaverse girls. Well, perhaps not.
 

Tlaero

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Nov 24, 2018
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Thank you, Mortze.

popabear the Elsaverse currently consists of 5 games, 11 short stories, and a novella. You're literally judging that entire body of work solely on the 17th release, which is a transitional short story that was done to keep the fans engaged while they waited for Mortze to work on SW.

If you want to support Mortze, who was the artist for every image in the Elsaverse, at least try one of the actual games. I suggest this one, which I recently converted to Renpy: https://f95zone.to/threads/redemption-for-jessika-final-tora-productions.202/

Tlaero
 

popabear

Member
Jul 11, 2019
316
2,095
I haven't struck any gold because the whole thing is copyrighted. What it is is just fan-fiction that some people like. Other people don't like it.

That you love SW the Warrior's Hearth and don't like Elsaverse games is legit; as fair as someone liking much more Elsaverse games and not as much SW. What you may see as a downgrade others may see as an upgrade, absolutely the opposite, me being Heisenberg waisting time on a SW game that isn't original and which rights are owned by a agressive mega-corporation.
The success of this game might be illusory or be taken with a grain of salt because it rests on proven material. If it has lightsabers that's already a win for some people (including myself).

So yeah, as much as I appreciate opinions about personal tastes that definitely will never be what inspires me to go here or there.

And you are mistaken. Overall, all the Elsaverse games considered, they have had much more acceptance and praise than this SW game. And why is that? Because it's original, well written and polished.
Perhaps the best compromise should be putting lightsabers in the hands of the Elsaverse girls. Well, perhaps not.
Well, can't blame a man for trying.

Yeah you've got a point there it's tricky when you're not the original IP owner and you're up against a mega corp. I don't really speak lawyer, but isnt there a bit of a loophole since one could claim fair use and argue that it's a porn parody and people aren't really purchasing copies, rather donating to support an artist and not paying for the work per se? I'll be honest I don't know much about this, but it doesn't seem clear cut that you'd get taken down the instant some corp lawyer discovers you. I haven't heard of any lewd productions getting taken down by the lawyers through Patreon, but maybe you have? There's still a million billion games out there with catwoman, hermoine, yea pretty much any well known fantasy characters and people seem to get away with cashing in on it. I get your reluctance though, and understand why you wouldn't want to take that risk.

I need to touch on the "well written" thing. I don't agree with you. At all. The Elsaverse are books with added pictures. They might be well written books, if one is evaluating them as one would a book. But that does not automatically translate into being a well written VN. You can't just slap pictures on a book and expect the results to be great. The best VN's have a lot of thought going into them regarding what they show and why. Good VN's don't need expository text because they just show what they want to show instead of trying to describe it. Elsaverse is filled to the brim with expository text and is telliing things through dialogue, not pictures.

Warrior's heart on the other hand is kinda nailing it. it's actual good visual storytelling done right. With a protagonist I can identify with. And with scenes with things other than dialogue happening in them. Comparing it to elsaverse is like comparing a book to a movie. The styles are way different, and the second is far superior as a format for a VN. It's not mainly better because light sabers and SW universe (although that definitely helps). It's a stylistic thing.

I'm pretty sure I would like anything you make if it kept the visual storytelling style of Warrior's Heart. If you want your own IP instead of going with SW then I totally respect that. Just go for it man. It'll be good!
 
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moskyx

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Jun 17, 2019
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If people had a little bit of reading comprehension, empathy and emotional intelligence they wouldn't write those 'encouraging' words to Mortze to keep pushing for SW. You didn't understand anything he said, you just want to have something you like as soon as possible and don't really care about how he feels and works, and I guess your approach is even counterproductive
 

Tlaero

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Game Developer
Nov 24, 2018
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I need to touch on the "well written" thing. I don't agree with you. At all. The Elsaverse are books with added pictures. They might be well written books, if one is evaluating them as one would a book. But that does not automatically translate into being a well written VN. You can't just slap pictures on a book and expect the results to be great. The best VN's have a lot of thought going into them regarding what they show and why. Good VN's don't need expository text because they just show what they want to show instead of trying to describe it. Elsaverse is filled to the brim with expository text and is telliing things through dialogue, not pictures.
A little over 24 hours ago, you didn't know that there were more things in the Elsaverse than Transitions. Now you know what all 17 different releases in it are "filled to the brim" with? Did you play the games (Transitions isn't a game) or are you just extrapolating?

Tlaero
 

popabear

Member
Jul 11, 2019
316
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A little over 24 hours ago, you didn't know that there were more things in the Elsaverse than Transitions. Now you know what all 17 different releases in it are "filled to the brim" with? Did you play the games (Transitions isn't a game) or are you just extrapolating?

Tlaero
I've known about your work for at least a year and I've tried it multiple times. Elsaverse and Life changes for Keeley. I've actually given you a lot more thought and attention than I otherwise would have, just because of how good Mortze's solo work is.

The latest entry shows clear as day that you still have not even thought to learn anything at all about how to use visual storytelling. If you're clueless now, is it reasonable to expect you to have understood it before? So yea you might say I'm extrapolating. You're still stuck trying to do novels with pictures, not using the tools available to you. And stacking exposition text on top of exposition images. Trying to make me play/read everything else you've done is not going to convert me. If you want to convert me you'll have to show me that you understand what visual storytelling is all about.

You really should take some time to learn how using visual storytelling is different from text-only storytelling. That would be a wayyy better use of your time than trying to start internet fights with a cartoon bear.

Maybe try googling it one day. Here's (Google's top search result)
 

Tlaero

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Nov 24, 2018
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I've known about your work for at least a year and I've tried it multiple times. Elsaverse and Life changes for Keeley.
I must have misunderstood that line you wrote in your review of Transitions. I apologize.

Using text techniques in my stories is something I've been doing relatively recently, but I have been doing it intentionally. I write stories and games that I want to play, and I find ones that don't use them to be less rich than those that do.

But I recognize that not everyone shares my tastes. There are a thousand reasons people don't like my stories, and, "I don't like that you use extra words" is as valid a reason as any other. Thank you for giving them a try.

I won't badger you any more.

Tlaero
 

yandex

Active Member
Oct 17, 2018
546
630
If people had a little bit of reading comprehension, empathy and emotional intelligence they wouldn't write those 'encouraging' words to Mortze to keep pushing for SW. You didn't understand anything he said, you just want to have something you like as soon as possible and don't really care about how he feels and works, and I guess your approach is even counterproductive
Can't say for others, but for my part I do hope my words didn't cause anything of the sort you mentioned, that was neither the intent nor what I wrote. However if it was indeed considered inappropriate I do apologize to Mortze and Tlaero , my words hurting either one of you would be a great shame for me :( . The bond between you two is unique and a great one, and as Mortze has mentioned without Tlaero there wouldnt be Mortze, that doesnt need anymore elaboration.

In simplest words I just wanted to show my appreciation for the works that kinda get deprioritized, and expressing my hope and desire to see them continued. Case in point been many years of me hoping to see Pandora continued, sure hope I dont sound too annoying bringing up Pandora again. Tlaero may I present my case to you ? :) Would you consider nudging and pushing Mortze in the direction of Pandora 2, along with all the necessary magic you bring ? A man sure can dream...
 
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