Ren'Py Abandoned Sylphine [v.024] [Glacerose]

[Cartageno]

However, I can't stretch enough that Serra lost all her charm from a cute quircky asian looking LI with short hair to a fugly looking bland nerd.

Not commenting on the redesign here as a whole, just on the new designs as given: if that is your definition of "fugly", let's say, we have different ones. I get the part of the disappointment of the change, I feel it too, but on her own this new version does look good to me. Maybe not everybody's taste. But "fugly"?

 

[P3zz0]

Not commenting on the redesign here as a whole, just on the new designs as given: if that is your definition of "fugly", let's say, we have different ones. I get the part of the disappointment of the change, I feel it too, but on her own this new version does look good to me. Maybe not everybody's taste. But "fugly"?

I do believe that tastes in men and women are truly subjective and personal which is why you have a lot of polarising reactions to the redesign as a whole as it was displayed here, Discord and on Patreon.

The fact that you don't agree with my reaction is perfectly fine and I accept it. I personally despised the previous design of Lilian over the OG and Serra. Lilian's problem has been corrected since we managed to get a blend of old and new. However, I (once again personally) believe that Serra's last redesign was ugly and a failure and the new redesign still doesn't address that, thus she is still fugly. But agree to disagree

 

[Cartageno]

I do believe that tastes in men and women are truly subjective and personal which is why you have a lot of polarising reactions to the redesign as a whole as it was displayed here, Discord and on Patreon.

The fact that you don't agree with my reaction is perfectly fine and I accept it. I personally despised the previous design of Lilian over the OG and Serra. Lilian's problem has been corrected since we managed to get a blend of old and new. However, I (once again personally) believe that Serra's last redesign was ugly and a failure and the new redesign still doesn't address that, thus she is still fugly. But agree to disagree

I will agree to disagree happily, because everything you said about subjectivity is perfectly fine. I was just wondering whether it was an honest feel of the new design as such or more an effect of the change.

 

[Charles de Guernica]

Although I liked the old designes much better, eventually we'll all get used to their new looks. I even liked Alex better than older version. But I don't think the real issue here is their design. After all all haircuts can be changed, skin tones can be adjusted, girls can dye their hair in the story, etc.

But there is a much bigger problem with the developer's way of working and thinking. He's one of the most talented artists out there, and as an artist I understand that he always wants to get better with his work. With game making, this artistic viewpoint can be really disastrous. If you're a painter, you paint something and finish it. After awhile you'll find it bad and ugly and move on to another painting by improving yourself and creating something better. Same goes for songwriting or even sculpting.

But if you're making a game with a mindset of an artist, things change. You're in the long haul, it might take years before the game finishes. So, you cannot start over everytime you get tired of your creation and get better. With this attitude, you can never finish what you started, because in a couple of years you'll get even better and try to destroy everything you created before just to make THE PERFECT game, which doesn't exist.

Not everyone is suitable for the long haul and big projects. Not everyone can write 5000 pages long novels which would take years, but some people can create just as amazing works by writing a short story or a poem, or composing a song. Glacerose has changed the game at least 4 times now. 2 times with honey select and 2 times with these models. Which makes me think that whatever he does, he will find it unsatisfactory after a certain time, he will get frustrated and burnt out. He will get even more anxious and one day give it up all together.

Not everyone is up for running a marathon, some of us are better in short distances and we can still be succesful in our field. So if you think that you cannot handle the stress caused by how big your project is, maybe you should tone it down even more. Make some little stories with these characters before trying to make a huge project. Have at least a few completed little things to give you power, and show people that you can finish what you started.

I've talked too much, but this game was one of my favs since it first came out as a Honey Select game and I always supported the dev's vision. However, this change must be the final, otherwise turn to smaller projects like I suggested before.

 

[Dragon59]

Not everyone is up for running a marathon, some of us are better in short distances and we can still be succesful in our field. So if you think that you cannot handle the stress caused by how big your project is, maybe you should tone it down even more. Make some little stories with these characters before trying to make a huge project. Have at least a few completed little things to give you power, and show people that you can finish what you started.

I've talked too much, but this game was one of my favs since it first came out as a Honey Select game and I always supported the dev's vision. However, this change must be the final, otherwise turn to smaller projects like I suggested before.

After reading the above, I had some thoughts. Developing one's skills usually goes through a steep ramp-up fairly early then tends to level off a bit. Skills continues to increase, but in more gradual increments. As such, I expect Glacerose will find their style is more consistent as the months go on. I have trust that they will find a point where the project can continue without discontent.

Same goes for scope. It is very easy to want to build the whole complex world, right out of the gate. It sounds like Glacerose is getting a better handle on what is not just doable, but what is practical.

That's my somewhat optimistic take.

 

[P3zz0]

I will agree to disagree happily, because everything you said about subjectivity is perfectly fine. I was just wondering whether it was an honest feel of the new design as such or more an effect of the change.

Then it's perfect! As for your question, it is an honest take regarding the character design rather than the effect of change itself. I truly don't like the new Serra design out of her haircut, face structure and general appearance that I believe take away a lot of the charm and uniqueness she was carrying before and is (from my perspective once again) an overall downgrade in terms of beauty standards and standing within the cast.

However, I can also understand the side of the people disagreeing with the redesign from a change perspective rather than the subjectivity of "prettiness" like myself.
When you create a visual novel, the visual part is truly important as the name suggests, since the visual will be the one carrying your lore, story, mechanics and emotions throughout the game. Thus, a lot of people tend to develop an affective relationship toward the characters and their designs since they embody their personality and uniqueness. So when a radical change like this one happen and that the characters that have been present for a long amount of time are scrapped to be replaced by vastly different designs (not necessarily bad but a vast departure from the OG ones), well it can break this relationship and the people will react poorly and will outright reject the "replacements" and consider them as "impostors".

But at the end of the day it's Glace's game and Glace's choice. I don't agree with it but I want the project to succeed and the characters are just a vessel for that and only represent a part of the experience.

 

[cbsx]

If wasn't involved in the Patreon and Discord and felt like I know Glacerose, I would have probably walked away... but Glace is a stand up guy with an odd combination of strong and fragile ego. So for him to make a stand on these changes he has to feel pretty damn strongly about it for the amount backlash he's gotten.

Pezzo, you hit a key there with the replacement/imposter issues.

Some TV shows survive an actor change for a character, some don't. I don't know what the key is to make it work, but I hope Sylphine makes it work. Glace doesn't make ugly girls.

 

[Tallomellow32]

If wasn't involved in the Patreon and Discord and felt like I know Glacerose, I would have probably walked away... but Glace is a stand up guy with an odd combination of strong and fragile ego. So for him to make a stand on these changes he has to feel pretty damn strongly about it for the amount backlash he's gotten.

Pezzo, you hit a key there with the replacement/imposter issues.

Some TV shows survive an actor change for a character, some don't. I don't know what the key is to make it work, but I hope Sylphine makes it work. Glace doesn't make ugly girls.

It looks less like an actor change and more like a liva action adaption to an anime

 

[P3zz0]

If wasn't involved in the Patreon and Discord and felt like I know Glacerose, I would have probably walked away... but Glace is a stand up guy with an odd combination of strong and fragile ego. So for him to make a stand on these changes he has to feel pretty damn strongly about it for the amount backlash he's gotten.

Pezzo, you hit a key there with the replacement/imposter issues.

Some TV shows survive an actor change for a character, some don't. I don't know what the key is to make it work, but I hope Sylphine makes it work. Glace doesn't make ugly girls.

Glad you like the analogy

Oh, I totally commend Glace for being transparent with everything and being a stand-up dev, that's why I am on board since the alpha of Sylphine. Scaling things down was the right call even if it wasn't the one his creative mind wanted to see happen, but it's for the best.

As for "Glace doesn't make ugly girls" once again we are back to a very subjective matter ahaha To each their own I guess

 

[cbsx]

Ahh... of course you're correct on the subjective nature of beauty...

I guess I mean he doesn't do low-effort or phoned-in.

I've seen some terrible things on this site.

 

[jaw1986baby]

I don't know I still feel like this:

Gracie skin has the more realistic look. We are taking away the cartoon feel of HS and the cartoon color hair of DAZ 1.0

But then:

Lillian, Alex, and also Celeste (notpictured) feel like they are still in low res cartoon skin. The wireframe for them is nice and I think they do look good but they need something different for skin.

All my opinion but of course but if you truly look at this and think you might be missing out on more "photo-real" characters wouldn't it lead to similar anguish as right now??

Or am I the only one who sees it like this??? I can accept if I am different, just curious



PEACE

 

[Dragon59]

If wasn't involved in the Patreon and Discord and felt like I know Glacerose, I would have probably walked away... but Glace is a stand up guy with an odd combination of strong and fragile ego. So for him to make a stand on these changes he has to feel pretty damn strongly about it for the amount backlash he's gotten.

Pezzo, you hit a key there with the replacement/imposter issues.

Some TV shows survive an actor change for a character, some don't. I don't know what the key is to make it work, but I hope Sylphine makes it work. Glace doesn't make ugly girls.

Darren Stevens Syndrome

 

[P3zz0]

Ahh... of course you're correct on the subjective nature of beauty...

I guess I mean he doesn't do low-effort or phoned-in.

I've seen some terrible things on this site.

Oh I agree the work and effort are here you can see it ! No denying that here

Oh I believe you, we have seen some shits here (literally and figuratively ahaha)

 

[badnboujee]

Aight lads, sharing with you the latest Patreon's post from Glacerose, including the pictures of the "new" cast.
Enjoy I guess and don't forget to share your thoughts.


The big follow-up to the big follow-up! (Character Designs)

Hello all.

First, I want to say thank you for the massive amount of kind words I've received. I can't thank you all enough for the support, truly.

Second, I want to reiterate again, if you feel that you don't wish to join in the redesign and wish a refund for your last month's pledge, please message me either on Patreon, Discord, or GlaceroseDev@gmail.com and I will happily refund you!

Now, onto what you're all here for!

Over yesterday and part of today, I've been working with some fans in discord to touch up the character designs, and I want to present them to you, along with some thoughts of why I did what I did.

So, here is a portrait of all 5 girls! Below I'll post a picture of each one individually and go into a short explanation of why they look how they do.

So first, we have Alex.

Alex was a bit of a tough one to redesign, I wanted to get away from her "Mommy" like qualities, and focus more on her savvy and business side. She'll be a bit less overbearing with her sweetness and calling you "Honey" or "Sweetie" all the time. It just didn't sit well with me. She'll be acting more as a sharp and intelligent businesswoman, who of course still has a lot of love in her heart for you and all the girls.

Next, we have Celeste.

Celeste to be honest was fairly easy as she isn't getting a ton of changes. I wanted her to look really girly and fairly bitchy, and think it was achieved fairly well. She's going to be a lot less wishy-washy in her Tsundere behaviour, and will have more distinct sides. Meaning her bitchiness will be a lot more bitchy, but when she breaks, she will really really break.

Next is Gracie.

With Gracie, I wanted to accentuate her girl next door outdoorsy-ness. Pushing more on her love of nature and being outside and making her a lot more homely. I think the denim suspenders fit her pretty well, and her messy braids match a lot more for a girl that just likes to go outside and have fun.

Now we have Lillian.

For Lillian, I really wanted to push on the "No fucks given about appearance" lazy side of her. She plays games all not, crashes on the bed, and wakes up to play games. She wears baggy clothes for the comfortable feeling, and her hair is messy because she doesn't really care to brush it. I plan for her to be just as "chill", but I wanted her exterior appearance to match her interior laze.

Lastly, and maybe most controversially, we have Serra.

For Serra I wanted to really capture the look of a girl you'd see in the library, giggling as she reads her favorite novel, lounged out on a beanbag chair.
I plan to change her personality a tad, getting less away from the bit overdone quirkiness and moving more to the more book and nerdy centric side of her.


Soooo yeah, that's what we have! I know this is rather controversial, and many people are now gonna hate their previous favorite girl. But I hope maybe now you can have a *new* favorite girl, or maybe you will like your old favorite, who knows. But this matches my vision of them, something I'm proud of, made fresh and not just copying my old design from when I was in a much darker place.

Anyway, I wanted to share these designs ASAP so you all could really get a feel from what I was going for.

I'm designing the MC and interiors now, and have the Kitchen/Living Room, and about 60% of the house done. I'll share those as soon as I can in the next couple days. And not too be too biased, but they're looking pretty great.

Thank you all again for the kind words, the support I woke up to after my last post honestly overwhelmed me, pushed to tears but instead of anxiety and sadness ridden tears, they were happy. I hope you'll all decide to join me on this journey and give the girls a chance.

I guess I should say goodbye now before I really start rambling, so, goodbye for now! Remember to join the discord if you want up to date news, conversation, and want to voice your opinion in some design decisions, I post actively there for instantaneous feedback.

Thanks again!

LOVE that Celeste doesn't seem to have a nose piercing anymore! that said, I think she might have been better off having pink hair than being a blonde, but isn't a huge dealbreaker for me personally

 

[cbsx]

I don't know I still feel like this:

Gracie skin has the more realistic look. We are taking away the cartoon feel of HS and the cartoon color hair of DAZ 1.0

But then Lillian, Alex, and also Celeste feel like they are still in low res cartoon skin. The wireframe for them is nice and I think they do look good but they need something different for skin.

All my opinion but of course but if you truly look at this and think you might be missing out on more "photo-real" characters wouldn't it lead to similar anguish as right now??

Or am I the only one who sees it like this??? I can accept if I am different, just curious

PEACE

You are not wrong about the skin detail... and he has said multiple times that what he showed was a work-in-progress for character updates. So far Gracie got her braids back...

Again... this is not final.

 

[Dragon59]

You are not wrong about the skin detail... and he has said multiple times that what he showed was a work-in-progress for character updates. So far Gracie got her braids back...
View attachment 1293200
Again... this is not final.

Gracie seems to be getting some of her open look again.
Lillian wearing a dreamcatcher shirt. It fits her personality.

 

[Blaq Mask]

I don't know I still feel like this:
View attachment 1293179
Gracie skin has the more realistic look. We are taking away the cartoon feel of HS and the cartoon color hair of DAZ 1.0

But then:
View attachment 1293180
Lillian, Alex, and also Celeste (notpictured) feel like they are still in low res cartoon skin. The wireframe for them is nice and I think they do look good but they need something different for skin.

All my opinion but of course but if you truly look at this and think you might be missing out on more "photo-real" characters wouldn't it lead to similar anguish as right now??

Or am I the only one who sees it like this??? I can accept if I am different, just curious



PEACE

Nah, you right, the characters look like they belong in different games. They range from animu to realistic and it's really jarring looking at them lined up like that. At this point I think Ima just write this one off. Multiple failures to launch don't instill much confidence. Oh well, plenty more fish in the sea.

 

[House Of Black]

God this is horrible lol, like what purpose does this serve? This well into your game and you drastically change your beloved characters? Major L.

 

[Deleted member 331233]

God this is horrible lol, like what purpose does this serve? This well into your game and you drastically change your beloved characters? Major L.

 

[Badjourasmix]

Personally the more I see of the new characters designs the more I like them. If the dev wasn't really feeling the old designs I think it's a good think that he is adressing all those things now while the game is still in its early stages. I get that it must be frustrating for some people to see all these changes but it must be also very frustrating for a dev to work on something that he feels that it is not his best work. It's in the dev's best interest to create the best game possible, he wouldn't change all those things if he didn't believe that it was for the best.