VN Ren'Py Abandoned The City of Promise [Ch.1 Remake Bugfix] [TGO Entertainment]

[juan palote]

Hey guys i dont realy understand anymore what the problem is so people think this will slow down progress im not so sure about that why dont you give him a chance to show off what he wants to make and then if its not good you can give feedback like i said i have talked often withe the developer and he is a nice guy he is trying to again make the characters seem better while also making the game better and he thinks this can happen via the free roam thing cant we just first see what happens before we judge anything.

Its not beceause other games suck and fail that it will happen here aswell. Also i started this conversation about what you think will happen in the next updaye for some postivitie so that the developer can read some fun comments when he comes online instead of the usual but it seems hard to have some postive talks around here.

Listen, i have been around enough. Free Roam isnt the answer. Maybe you and the Dev are new tot his and thats why you think "first see what happens". The thing is, if he implements it, then it will be too late to go back after that.

There are TONS of things to fix and improve on this game and none of them are going to be fixed with Free Roam, moreso, i already gave you ane xample of how the Free Roam proposed by the Dev even makes one of the weak points of the game even weaker (efefctively nullifying the only choice the MC makes in the entire game).

I realize you like the Free Roam, and the Dev might have think it was a good idea, but he needs to realize is a major change in his game and will have a major impact on his players, he shouldnt do it lightly and should listen to more feedback before doing it

You can have positive talks in here, but you wont get that by announcing that the Dev will change the whole gameplay of the game, turning it from a Novel to a Free Roam, because again, many of us have already seen that fail every single time, even with more knowledgeable developers.

Free Roam is a bad idea, and the sooner the Dev listens to feedback from people that have experience, the better, because it will be too late after

 

[juan palote]

Look i have played tons of games on this and other sites i dont realy care how the game is set up if its free roam or not i care about the story and characters and i know for a fact he is adressing the other issues you talked about but will have to see to what point he will do that.

you can keep pushing him like this but at some point people might just drop the game so thats not helpfull. Also nothing is ever to late he already gone back and dith 2 rewrites this is like the 3d one all for the fans. I do get why your upset and what you say is not untrue but can we relax and first see what he makes of it.

I mean its his game you said yourself.

Oh i will drop the game the instant Free Roam is implemented.

And unlike you, many of us do care about the gameplay too, besides the story.

He should address the problems the game has before implementing something that will very likely introduce a whole lot new set of problems (like it did for every Dev that converted a Novel into a Free Roam).

My feedback is being helpful, more helpful than you just saying "i dont care about gameplay" or "just wait untll he actually makes the mistake before giving him advice about it".

I get upset because i have seen this already, and i dont want this game to have the destiny it will have if the Free Roam is implemented.

Lets be honest here, even the minigames are still buggy and you said yourself that the Dev is having troubles implementing the gallery, why then not focus on that instead of trying to add something that has failed several times before in many ocasions and is very likely going to add more problems?

Of course its his game, and his decision, but he should be receiving more feedback before implementing such a big change

 

[juan palote]

Does he owe you or anybody here anything ? Sorry to say but no my friend be glad he does care about your opnions thats why he is imporving even more things the dialogue, the characters dont think he forgot about the other stuff people complain about cause he has not.

He just liked the idea of the free roam who knows maybe he can pull it off fix the issues people complain about and make a working free roam game the way i always see it os that ervything until now is a intro and now the game realy starts.

The game map is realy small so far you will find all the characters pretty fast the way i heard it you click on them the next scene starts while also being able to replay scenes aswell as a option maybe you dont like this setting but it is what it is my friend im not the dev he decides what happens in the game.

Side note i dont like the mini games either they almost make me want to stop playing but he want to make his game be more fun and not to simple.

He doesnt owe any of us anything, i am just giving him advice, just like you, except unlike you i actually do care about gameplay.

He decides what to make with his game, we all agree on that, his decisions will have consequences though. Again, he has a lot of things to fix, IMHO he should be focusing in that which is already a lot of work instead of trying to find a unicorn in trying to make Free Roam work after introducing the game as a Novel.

Getting more feedback instead of the limited amount he was obviously getting will help him make more informed decisions about the game.

 

[HansDampf788]

As you guys are going crazy here I think I will too with a rewrite of the game to fit my preferences.

If you don't like the same tags as I don't read (my favorite tags are in my signature).

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[juan palote]

As you guys are going crazy here I think I will too with a rewrite of the game to fit my preferences.

If you don't like the same tags as I don't read (my favorite tags are in my signature).

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Which is your stance on what we were discussing? I assume from the tags you like/dislike that you would prefer the game to not have Free Roam, am i correct?

Its important to give this feedback to the Dev before he makes the change.

 

[HansDampf788]

Which is your stance on what we were discussing? I assume from the tags you like/dislike that you would prefer the game to not have Free Roam, am i correct?

Its important to give this feedback to the Dev before he makes the change.

Definitely fuck sandbox/freeroam.

 

[Kelsmen]

As you guys are going crazy here I think I will too with a rewrite of the game to fit my preferences.

If you don't like the same tags as I don't read (my favorite tags are in my signature).

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so I obliviously read over your post and to be quite honest your changes that you mentioned do not make sense. I understand that this would a rewrite that you would do. But still doesn’t really make sense.

- the ceremony takes place when a person turns 18. That is why the classmates leave at different times. Because they turn 18 at different times.

- the ceremony is probably gonna be more then just sex for the Mc. Seeing as how the arbiter is constantly watching Mc with cameras in his house proves that. Also I mentioned in a previous post in the thread that I have a feeling that the Mc is playing the long game (if you want clarification on this feel free to ask). Back to the first part the ceremony happens when you turn 18 and with the Samantha and Alison being older then the Mc they will have already had their ceremony.

- removing samantha and Alison from the orgy and replacing them school staff doesn’t really make sense. There is not connection to the Mc besides just knowing him from school so it doesn’t make the anger from being drugged as effective by removing Samantha and Alison.

-I have my thoughts on the whole training thing. But again removing Samantha and Alison from the equation lessens the storyline.

 

[Sarkasmus]

I hope the dev can forgive me posting this picture here, but this is so good, I really think it NEEDS to be shared.
It's taken from his newest update on his patreon-page. Apparently there is a third option he cut off, but didn't say what it could be.



According to the text he wrote to this screenshot, he really is working hard on creating meaningful choices leading to multiple paths in the game.

I also exchanged a few messages with him. And for those worried about the Free-Roam:
It looks like he will use it solely to revisit characters, if you choose to do so. You can simply ignore the tunnel-button and keep playing the game like before. If you, for example, ignored Susan or Samantha during the first training, you CAN go back and start their training. But that would still have its own set of consequences, instead of negating your earlier choice to ignoring her.

 

[juan palote]

Guess we will have to see.

I still dont know why its necessary to nulify previous choices and why invest the work in creating a Free Roam instead of something much simpler like a Gallery like the rest of the games have (and for a reason, not because they are unable to do Free Roam). If i cna play the whole game without ever being presented with Free Roaming, then it isnt a big deal, except for a complete waste of development time in a game that desperately needs that resource in other areas.

Even that chocie apparently is a lie, because it says Reject someone forever, but then the Dev gives you Free Roam to go back.

Il dont see the point in this "Free Roam" and i think it only diminish the value of choices and makes the game weaker. Reinventing the wheel isnt neccesary, all the game needed to replay was a Gallery and then moving on in fixing the several issues that are there

As long as i can completely ignore that crap i will give this game another chance, even if i think the Dev is wasting resources

 

[Sarkasmus]

Guess we will have to see.

Yes, maybe that is the better option.

I really don't know how I could emphasize any stronger how this would be your choice, before you stop claiming it's being forced on you. If you don't want to go back to them and somehow "negate" your previous choice... just don't do it then.
But If I understood the dev correctly, going back would entail its own set of consequences (like I wrote before). This would effectively become an entirely independent game-path instead of an alternative for a gallery. To which extent he's planning to let us follow that path is to be seen.

But for me, this actually makes a lot of sense. I don't know exactly what the dev has planned for their redemption, but if it's good maybe I'll actually want to give them a second chance down the road after sending them away "forever" in the heat of the moment. For now we lack the context to just assume this choice to be titled literally... You know, like a "I'll NEVER drink again" on a hungover morning doesn't really mean much in the future.

And before you talk about wasting resources again:
The way dev described his "Free Roam"-Plans, he should be able to implement this in 1-2 hours. It's really not like he's going to spend 2 weeks doing this instead of rewrites or renders. ...at least he souldn't

 

[juan palote]

Yes, maybe that is the better option.

I really don't know how I could emphasize any stronger how this would be your choice, before you stop claiming it's being forced on you. If you don't want to go back to them and somehow "negate" your previous choice... just don't do it then.
But If I understood the dev correctly, going back would entail its own set of consequences (like I wrote before). This would effectively become an entirely independent game-path instead of an alternative for a gallery. To which extent he's planning to let us follow that path is to be seen.

But for me, this actually makes a lot of sense. I don't know exactly what the dev has planned for their redemption, but if it's good maybe I'll actually want to give them a second chance down the road after sending them away "forever" in the heat of the moment. For now we lack the context to just assume this choice to be titled literally... You know, like a "I'll NEVER drink again" on a hungover morning doesn't really mean much in the future.

And before you talk about wasting resources again:
The way dev described his "Free Roam"-Plans, he should be able to implement this in 1-2 hours. It's really not like he's going to spend 2 weeks doing this instead of rewrites or renders. ...at least he souldn't

I am not saying its forced now, that's why i ended up my message with " As long as i can completely ignore that crap i will give this game another chance, even if i think the Dev is wasting resources".

About nullifying the choice, the fact that you can undo a choice automatically removes importance/power/strength from that choice, even if you never use that option.

About going back branching the story, i cant see how that is sustainable, if you have to make a branch for every choice, and another branch from going back and changing each choice, that will go out of control really fast, specially considering we still have simple errors like the one that happens when you pick a wrong choice in the Susan dressing minigame from the first version of the game still unfixed.

About the resource wasting, he might think it will only take 1-2 hours to make the Free Roam mechanic, but again, he clearly isnt an expert coder (based on the bugged minigames that like i said are still present after several releases) and that is not taking into consideration these new "consequences" we will get from undoing each decision.

Its not realistic to think it will only take "1-2 hours".

Again, and i repeat, as long as i can completely ignore the mechanic, fine, i still think it undermines the value of choices if you can undo them and its a waste of resources. I am glad its optional.

 

[v1900]

Yes, maybe that is the better option.

I really don't know how I could emphasize any stronger how this would be your choice, before you stop claiming it's being forced on you. If you don't want to go back to them and somehow "negate" your previous choice... just don't do it then.
But If I understood the dev correctly, going back would entail its own set of consequences (like I wrote before). This would effectively become an entirely independent game-path instead of an alternative for a gallery. To which extent he's planning to let us follow that path is to be seen.

But for me, this actually makes a lot of sense. I don't know exactly what the dev has planned for their redemption, but if it's good maybe I'll actually want to give them a second chance down the road after sending them away "forever" in the heat of the moment. For now we lack the context to just assume this choice to be titled literally... You know, like a "I'll NEVER drink again" on a hungover morning doesn't really mean much in the future.

And before you talk about wasting resources again:
The way dev described his "Free Roam"-Plans, he should be able to implement this in 1-2 hours. It's really not like he's going to spend 2 weeks doing this instead of rewrites or renders. ...at least he souldn't

Ooh, had to get of of my cave to follow the smell of a corruption path that's cooking. NOICE

 

[v1900]

I am not saying its forced now, that's why i ended up my message with " As long as i can completely ignore that crap i will give this game another chance, even if i think the Dev is wasting resources".

About nullifying the choice, the fact that you can undo a choice automatically removes importance/power/strength from that choice, even if you never use that option.

About going back branching the story, i cant see how that is sustainable, if you have to make a branch for every choice, and another branch from going back and changing each choice, that will go out of control really fast, specially considering we still have simple errors like the one that happens when you pick a wrong choice in the Susan dressing minigame from the first version of the game still unfixed.

About the resource wasting, he might think it will only take 1-2 hours to make the Free Roam mechanic, but again, he clearly isnt an expert coder (based on the bugged minigames that like i said are still present after several releases) and that is not taking into consideration these new "consequences" we will get from undoing each decision.

Its not realistic to think it will only take "1-2 hours".

Again, and i repeat, as long as i can completely ignore the mechanic, fine, i still think it undermines the value of choices if you can undo them and its a waste of resources

I gave your post some thought and you are right in that it would be too much work to implement an alternate path for all LIs. On the other hand if it is just an option for a select few like the mom and sister it could work. You can have a set of bitchy characters that get the corruption treatment.

 

[juan palote]

I gave your post some thought and you are right in that it would be too much work to implement an alternate path for all LIs. On the other hand if it is just an option for a select few like the mom and sister it could work. You can have a set of bitchy characters that get the corruption treatment.

Yeah, if its only for 2 characters of course its manageable, although is it really worth it to implement a new system like Free Roam for only 1-2 characters?

From the little information we have it will be optional, and that is enough for me to not make me leave the game, but i still think its a bad idea

 

[HansDampf788]

I hope the dev can forgive me posting this picture here, but this is so good, I really think it NEEDS to be shared.
It's taken from his newest update on his patreon-page. Apparently there is a third option he cut off, but didn't say what it could be.

View attachment 1303300

According to the text he wrote to this screenshot, he really is working hard on creating meaningful choices leading to multiple paths in the game.

I also exchanged a few messages with him. And for those worried about the Free-Roam:
It looks like he will use it solely to revisit characters, if you choose to do so. You can simply ignore the tunnel-button and keep playing the game like before. If you, for example, ignored Susan or Samantha during the first training, you CAN go back and start their training. But that would still have its own set of consequences, instead of negating your earlier choice to ignoring her.

The reject them now and forever is stupid. If the drug and lying part stays in the game then yes they should earn forgiveness and maybe suffer a bit (no I don't mean the MC should beat them he should ignore them for a while or something like that) but rejecting them completely is just a bad idea.

If this is the way the dev goes then he didn't learn anything because this is either forgive them instantly or cut out the incest part of the game which is one of the major selling points of the game because if a player rejects the mom and sister the same should be the case for the aunt and cousin because they at least took part in what caused the problem in the first place.

 

[v1900]

Yeah, if its only for 2 characters of course its manageable, although is it really worth it to implement a new system like Free Roam for only 1-2 characters?

From the little information we have it will be optional, and that is enough for me to not make me leave the game, but i still think its a bad idea

Well we still need to meet the other 8 characters some of them could be even bigger assholes and get the slave treatment. Mmmm coffee and slaves in the morning.

 

[M'95]

My compliments to Dev, I have not seen one beore that is so willing to work hard to meet the expectations of readers.

But make sure you don't lose the creative vision of the work you want to make and take some time to enjoy the great weather outside.

 

[Sarkasmus]

The reject them now and forever is stupid. If the drug and lying part stays in the game then yes they should earn forgiveness and maybe suffer a bit (no I don't mean the MC should beat them he should ignore them for a while or something like that) but rejecting them completely is just a bad idea.

If this is the way the dev goes then he didn't learn anything because this is either forgive them instantly or cut out the incest part of the game which is one of the major selling points of the game because if a player rejects the mom and sister the same should be the case for the aunt and cousin because they at least took part in what caused the problem in the first place.

Completely agree. I wrote previously that this may not be meant literally, but I asked him on Patreon and he clarified: Yes, sending them away will lock out their paths.
I think he build that option in, because some people (including me) told him, that after how they treated MC... I wouldn't want to just forgive them like that and instantly choose exile.

BUT, keep in mind that there is supposed to be a third option in those screenshots, he wanted the patrons to speculate about. Don't know what that could be yet, but I kinda appreciate he gives people the option to simply not forgive them (even though I wouldn't choose it, I can see how there may be people prefering it).

*EDIT*
Oh, and it's not instantly forgive or cut all ties. It's more like a choice between "trust them for now" or "cut all ties". The third option not known yet.

 

[NoxLaw]

The reject them now and forever is stupid.

Why would it be stupid tho? People who like them will stay with them and people who don't can cut them out. Having more choices is never a bad idea unless it compromises the way the game should be.

To be honest I didn't expect the dev to do this and if I really get the choice to completely reject them, I will 100% take it because I really can't stand them. I didn't even want to continue the game but if I get this choice I probably will.

 

[Sarkasmus]

Why would it be stupid tho? People who like them will stay with them and people who don't can cut them out. Having more choices is never a bad idea unless it compromises the way the game should be.

To be honest I didn't expect the dev to do this and if I really get the choice to completely reject them, I will 100% take it because I really can't stand them. I didn't even want to continue the game but if I get this choice I probably will.

This is something I also told to the dev. I don't know if others agree with me here, but I think it has value:
I hate them. They treat my MC selfishly like a toy for their amusement. So... I would like to see them making up for it. Redeem themselves. I would like to see them realize what they did and feel guilty about it. And then take the approriate steps to make it up to MC. For that, I kinda need to have them in the game.

If I just cut them off and then they are gone... I don't get my reparation. It wouldn't be satisfying.

*EDIT*
Also keep in mind how early in game this choice will be presented to you. It is entirely possible the dev actually pulls of some valid reasoning for them doing this crap to MC. But then you wouldn't get a chance to talk with them about it and start over.