Ren'Py Abandoned The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[TundraLupus]

Hmm perhaps we might just get a promotion event after Eiza's sister stealth mission event.
Guessing we'll be getting these for each rank, though I do wonder how each of them will differ from the first Soldado promotion event (Blackie's speech in soldados promotion was something specific for a newbie entering the mafia family, so I'm guessing his speech from now on will be something specific to that rank).

probably, but I'm thinking it will be a mission to prove yourself and then just a "congrats, here is your new uniform and responsibilities", but i have the feeling that the next rank will only come after the bugs are discussed.

 

[SuperLYC]

MC solve Gracie lsabel problem and confirmed lsabel not cheating. And then it is the same guy persuade Isabel into an affair with him. What an ass , but I'd like to see Gracie vs Mc if she discover what happened , that could be a slaughter

 

[-L-L-MJ-]

probably, but I'm thinking it will be a mission to prove yourself and then just a "congrats, here is your new uniform and responsibilities", but i have the feeling that the next rank will only come after the bugs are discussed.

I'm not sure why everyone got so hung up on those bugs, I've seen the discussions that took place about them in the last couple of pages of the thread and as entertaining as all those scenarios were I sincerely doubt it will become as big of a deal as some imagine it. Aside from the fact that they were heavily used for the development of story progression. I also think a lot of the projected outcomes were selling the ladies short on their reasoning abilities.

Just like when Luna caught MC in her room after planting the bug, she accepted MC being there because she understood his motives. Something that seemed to be forgotten in all the arguments was MC's motives for planting them in the first place.

3 assassination attempts. While being under contract for the DeLuca's, in their care/custody/protection. In their car, at their dining room table, in their house! Sounds like one hell of a sympathy card to guilt trip any of them. Which after the event were you ask Wilfred about Luna's past, she gets angry with you and you follow Pops advice and pretend to be angry with her (Hell, Wilfred in all his scheming even supports that act like a real "bro" or it's just out of his curiosity to see you handle yourself with him you never know for sure...) ( This scene was pure gold by the way! Thanks Pops!)

Anyways, considering that "scene" and others we know our MC has "game" flavored with a certain degree of manipulation perhaps if need be. All that is speculation on the fact that the bugs will be found however. ( which I somehow doubt )

Now I also saw it suggested that the all knowing Wilfred might even know about the bugs in this case he could do the same ( be a bro ) and remove the bugs before they are found it's not something that I would put beyond him cause he seems to enjoy steering the MC into different situations or point you into certain directions cause he feels like you need to "grow" throughout the story he definitely "molds" you. Damn he is terrifying.

But hey, what ever will be will be. I can see Hopes enjoying all the speculation and having a lot fun actually writing it and have us all surprised. I just don't think it will be that soon.

(PS. Video camera's or go home pussies! simply cause of the fact how would you ever catch someone creeping around? planting false evidence setting someone up if there isn't a conversation taking place audio recordings are useless)

 

[TundraLupus]

I'm not sure why everyone got so hung up on those bugs, I've seen the discussions that took place about them in the last couple of pages of the thread and as entertaining as all those scenarios were I sincerely doubt it will become as big of a deal as some imagine it. Aside from the fact that they were heavily used for the development of story progression. I also think a lot of the projected outcomes were selling the ladies short on their reasoning abilities.

Just like when Luna caught MC in her room after planting the bug, she accepted MC being there because she understood his motives. Something that seemed to be forgotten in all the arguments was MC's motives for planting them in the first place.

3 assassination attempts. While being under contract for the DeLuca's, in their care/custody/protection. In their car, at their dining room table, in their house! Sounds like one hell of a sympathy card to guilt trip any of them. Which after the event were you ask Wilfred about Luna's past, she gets angry with you and you follow Pops advice and pretend to be angry with her (Hell, Wilfred in all his scheming even supports that act like a real "bro" or it's just out of his curiosity to see you handle yourself with him you never know for sure...) ( This scene was pure gold by the way! Thanks Pops!)

Anyways, considering that "scene" and others we know our MC has "game" flavored with a certain degree of manipulation perhaps if need be. All that is speculation on the fact that the bugs will be found however. ( which I somehow doubt )

Now I also saw it suggested that the all knowing Wilfred might even know about the bugs in this case he could do the same ( be a bro ) and remove the bugs before they are found it's not something that I would put beyond him cause he seems to enjoy steering the MC into different situations or point you into certain directions cause he feels like you need to "grow" throughout the story he definitely "molds" you. Damn he is terrifying.

But hey, what ever will be will be. I can see Hopes enjoying all the speculation and having a lot fun actually writing it and have us all surprised. I just don't think it will be that soon.

(PS. Video camera's or go home pussies! simply cause of the fact how would you ever catch someone creeping around? planting false evidence setting someone up if there isn't a conversation taking place audio recordings are useless)

Yeah in those discussions I mostly made the same point, and to me the after reading and remembering that Wilfred does comment on everything else you buy it became a given that he knows, and if he knows Cordia probably knows, so even if one of the other wants to stir shit they would intervene, but I was meaning more on the Mc being "Okay, I trust you guys enough now to come clean about this", and being a shown of thrust for both parts, the family in accepting him in a higher position, and him accepting that they are not his enemies. Maybe this would be saved for a future Ranking though.

About Wilfred removing the bugs himself, I don't think that is how he works, is more likely that he would leave them for the Mc to do something about it, and then wait and see if the Mc can get out of whatever mess we put him through, and if not, then intervene with Cordia.

 

[gaxos]

My rank never goes beyond 4 and says "you reached max experience points for this version of the game" and also that a promotion is available but there is no promotion in the events page as i am assuming i need to be level 5. Played both with or without cheats. here is the save

 

[JJJ84]

I'm not sure why everyone got so hung up on those bugs, I've seen the discussions that took place about them in the last couple of pages of the thread and as entertaining as all those scenarios were I sincerely doubt it will become as big of a deal as some imagine it. Aside from the fact that they were heavily used for the development of story progression. I also think a lot of the projected outcomes were selling the ladies short on their reasoning abilities.

Just like when Luna caught MC in her room after planting the bug, she accepted MC being there because she understood his motives. Something that seemed to be forgotten in all the arguments was MC's motives for planting them in the first place.

3 assassination attempts. While being under contract for the DeLuca's, in their care/custody/protection. In their car, at their dining room table, in their house! Sounds like one hell of a sympathy card to guilt trip any of them. Which after the event were you ask Wilfred about Luna's past, she gets angry with you and you follow Pops advice and pretend to be angry with her (Hell, Wilfred in all his scheming even supports that act like a real "bro" or it's just out of his curiosity to see you handle yourself with him you never know for sure...) ( This scene was pure gold by the way! Thanks Pops!)

Anyways, considering that "scene" and others we know our MC has "game" flavored with a certain degree of manipulation perhaps if need be. All that is speculation on the fact that the bugs will be found however. ( which I somehow doubt )

Now I also saw it suggested that the all knowing Wilfred might even know about the bugs in this case he could do the same ( be a bro ) and remove the bugs before they are found it's not something that I would put beyond him cause he seems to enjoy steering the MC into different situations or point you into certain directions cause he feels like you need to "grow" throughout the story he definitely "molds" you. Damn he is terrifying.

But hey, what ever will be will be. I can see Hopes enjoying all the speculation and having a lot fun actually writing it and have us all surprised. I just don't think it will be that soon.

(PS. Video camera's or go home pussies! simply cause of the fact how would you ever catch someone creeping around? planting false evidence setting someone up if there isn't a conversation taking place audio recordings are useless)

I don't know about that. Luna was only forgiving to MC because she didn't see him plant the bug (all she thought he was doing was just snooping around, which in her mind wasn't too big of an offense). She probably wouldn't have been as understanding/forgiving if she was realizing he was planting bugs in her room.

I still think if MC gets caught (regarding the bugs, though whether bugs actually have impact on story or not is yet to be determined), he'll get some sort of punishment (or he would have to do something for the girls to make up for his actions as an alternative).
Sure, he can try to guilt-trip them saying he was targetted 3 times, but it doesn't change the fact he was spying on them.

It may have been reasonable in MC's POV to install the bugs, but it's also reasonable from the girls' POV to be furious/disappointed with him, as well as feeling he should be punished in some way for his actions.

Luna said it best when she caught MC with the following line:

"Still, you're sniffing around in my room, without my knowledge. That makes a a bit......mad. Can you blame me for that?"

He's got manipulation skills, yes, but previous times in situations where's he's caught being in the wrong, he's been lucky enough in which his offense wasn't that great (Cordia's office, looking for his contract), or his heart was in the right place (getting stuck in the cold storage room with Isabel & Gracie - here he's able to talk himself out of it by saying he "had the best of intentions for you girls").
Just can't see him talk himself out of this one where he is in the right.

Besides, perhaps this is just me, but if he gets in trouble and every time, the girls either forgive him or he can talk himself out of any consequences, I would just find the storytelling lacking in tension (and it wouldn't really make sense as well, considering the girls got punished with "beach prison" event with the whole exploding pink paint bomb in their bathroom, which is basically child's play compared to MC planting bugs in their rooms).

But even with punishments, I'm kinda getting the feeling it will be light (and not serious punishment), especially if it's audio recorder MC used (for cameras, probably something a bit worse). Probably like MC gets grounded for couple of days or something.

 

[c3p0]

I don't know about that. Luna was only forgiving to MC because she didn't see him plant the bug (all she thought he was doing was just snooping around, which in her mind wasn't too big of an offense). She probably wouldn't have been as understanding/forgiving if she was realizing he was planting bugs in her room.

I still think if MC gets caught (regarding the bugs, though whether bugs actually have impact on story or not is yet to be determined), he'll get some sort of punishment (or he would have to do something for the girls to make up for his actions as an alternative).
Sure, he can try to guilt-trip them saying he was targetted 3 times, but it doesn't change the fact he was spying on them.

It may have been reasonable in MC's POV to install the bugs, but it's also reasonable from the girls' POV to be furious/disappointed with him, as well as feeling he should be punished in some way for his actions.

Luna said it best when she caught MC with the following line:

"Still, you're sniffing around in my room, without my knowledge. That makes a a bit......mad. Can you blame me for that?"

He's got manipulation skills, yes, but previous times in situations where's he's caught being in the wrong, he's been lucky enough in which his offense wasn't that great (Cordia's office, looking for his contract), or his heart was in the right place (getting stuck in the cold storage room with Isabel & Gracie - here he's able to talk himself out of it by saying he "had the best of intentions for you girls").
Just can't see him talk himself out of this one where he is in the right.

Besides, perhaps this is just me, but if he gets in trouble and every time, the girls either forgive him or he can talk himself out of any consequences, I would just find the storytelling lacking in tension (and it wouldn't really make sense as well, considering the girls got punished with "beach prison" event with the whole exploding pink paint bomb in their bathroom, which is basically child's play compared to MC planting bugs in their rooms).

But even with punishments, I'm kinda getting the feeling it will be light (and not serious punishment), especially if it's audio recorder MC used (for cameras, probably something a bit worse). Probably like MC gets grounded for couple of days or something.

I think in the case of Luna, perhaps some personal mission for her "revenge arc".
For Gracie I don't know, as I said before, I think she will be more pissed at herself than at the MC to not see this "basic" move.
Isabel would be be furious, but with her, the question is what is real emotion and what is only an act.

Wilfred and Cordia know of the bugs, at least this is my understanding of this characters. Most likely Wilfred has encouraged us to implement them. As he seems something in the MC and use his power that the MC can fulfill the role he had for us.
You don't think he is the consigliere for nothing?

 

[msleomac]

My rank never goes beyond 4 and says "you reached max experience points for this version of the game" and also that a promotion is available but there is no promotion in the events page as i am assuming i need to be level 5. Played both with or without cheats. here is the save

I reached lvl 9 with cheats. Did you try reading the skill books and attempt every mission once? Promotion is in missions once you talk with the old man. I think its in special missions. Don't clearly remember since its been sometime since i played

 

[-L-L-MJ-]

My rank never goes beyond 4 and says "you reached max experience points for this version of the game" and also that a promotion is available but there is no promotion in the events page as i am assuming i need to be level 5. Played both with or without cheats. here is the save

Spoiler: Event log image

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

You need to meet your requirements first in the event log in order to proceed to your promotion.

 

[FranceToast]

All I know is I felt guilty as sin planting those bugs-I think I even mentioned it to HopesGaming back at the beginning!

 

[SuperLYC]

Bugs are rather small issues compared to other dangerous acts MC keeps doing. Fun to guess and watch what effects these potential dangers will have.
BTW, next release is 0.7.0? So this game only has 13 releases since July2018? Every release must has a good amount of contents but lt takes more than 2 months' waiting for a new release, right? (Right, patience)

 

[Ayhsel]

I'm not sure why everyone got so hung up on those bugs, I've seen the discussions that took place about them in the last couple of pages of the thread and as entertaining as all those scenarios were I sincerely doubt it will become as big of a deal as some imagine it. Aside from the fact that they were heavily used for the development of story progression. I also think a lot of the projected outcomes were selling the ladies short on their reasoning abilities.

Just like when Luna caught MC in her room after planting the bug, she accepted MC being there because she understood his motives. Something that seemed to be forgotten in all the arguments was MC's motives for planting them in the first place.

3 assassination attempts. While being under contract for the DeLuca's, in their care/custody/protection. In their car, at their dining room table, in their house! Sounds like one hell of a sympathy card to guilt trip any of them. Which after the event were you ask Wilfred about Luna's past, she gets angry with you and you follow Pops advice and pretend to be angry with her (Hell, Wilfred in all his scheming even supports that act like a real "bro" or it's just out of his curiosity to see you handle yourself with him you never know for sure...) ( This scene was pure gold by the way! Thanks Pops!)

Anyways, considering that "scene" and others we know our MC has "game" flavored with a certain degree of manipulation perhaps if need be. All that is speculation on the fact that the bugs will be found however. ( which I somehow doubt )

Now I also saw it suggested that the all knowing Wilfred might even know about the bugs in this case he could do the same ( be a bro ) and remove the bugs before they are found it's not something that I would put beyond him cause he seems to enjoy steering the MC into different situations or point you into certain directions cause he feels like you need to "grow" throughout the story he definitely "molds" you. Damn he is terrifying.

But hey, what ever will be will be. I can see Hopes enjoying all the speculation and having a lot fun actually writing it and have us all surprised. I just don't think it will be that soon.

(PS. Video camera's or go home pussies! simply cause of the fact how would you ever catch someone creeping around? planting false evidence setting someone up if there isn't a conversation taking place audio recordings are useless)

Yeah in those discussions I mostly made the same point, and to me the after reading and remembering that Wilfred does comment on everything else you buy it became a given that he knows, and if he knows Cordia probably knows, so even if one of the other wants to stir shit they would intervene, but I was meaning more on the Mc being "Okay, I trust you guys enough now to come clean about this", and being a shown of thrust for both parts, the family in accepting him in a higher position, and him accepting that they are not his enemies. Maybe this would be saved for a future Ranking though.

About Wilfred removing the bugs himself, I don't think that is how he works, is more likely that he would leave them for the Mc to do something about it, and then wait and see if the Mc can get out of whatever mess we put him through, and if not, then intervene with Cordia.

I don't know about that. Luna was only forgiving to MC because she didn't see him plant the bug (all she thought he was doing was just snooping around, which in her mind wasn't too big of an offense). She probably wouldn't have been as understanding/forgiving if she was realizing he was planting bugs in her room.

I still think if MC gets caught (regarding the bugs, though whether bugs actually have impact on story or not is yet to be determined), he'll get some sort of punishment (or he would have to do something for the girls to make up for his actions as an alternative).
Sure, he can try to guilt-trip them saying he was targetted 3 times, but it doesn't change the fact he was spying on them.

It may have been reasonable in MC's POV to install the bugs, but it's also reasonable from the girls' POV to be furious/disappointed with him, as well as feeling he should be punished in some way for his actions.

Luna said it best when she caught MC with the following line:

"Still, you're sniffing around in my room, without my knowledge. That makes a a bit......mad. Can you blame me for that?"

He's got manipulation skills, yes, but previous times in situations where's he's caught being in the wrong, he's been lucky enough in which his offense wasn't that great (Cordia's office, looking for his contract), or his heart was in the right place (getting stuck in the cold storage room with Isabel & Gracie - here he's able to talk himself out of it by saying he "had the best of intentions for you girls").
Just can't see him talk himself out of this one where he is in the right.

Besides, perhaps this is just me, but if he gets in trouble and every time, the girls either forgive him or he can talk himself out of any consequences, I would just find the storytelling lacking in tension (and it wouldn't really make sense as well, considering the girls got punished with "beach prison" event with the whole exploding pink paint bomb in their bathroom, which is basically child's play compared to MC planting bugs in their rooms).

But even with punishments, I'm kinda getting the feeling it will be light (and not serious punishment), especially if it's audio recorder MC used (for cameras, probably something a bit worse). Probably like MC gets grounded for couple of days or something.

This has been my assumption since the beginning:

Wilfred and Cordia straight up know about the bugs. Luna, Isabel, Gracie and Antonio don't.

I don't think at all either Wilfred or Cordia will help MC get out of the problem if they are found. It is his responsibility and if anything they will take advantage of the situation to teach MC a lesson. Not in the bad sense of teaching a lesson, but in the sense of letting him grow up more in what it means to be part of a mafia family: you know, unconditional trust to the members of the family, the family first policy or something like that.

Neither I think it will be a big deal. Obviously, the girl will feel betrayed or something, but it will not be something huge.

 

[-L-L-MJ-]

Yeah in those discussions I mostly made the same point, and to me the after reading and remembering that Wilfred does comment on everything else you buy it became a given that he knows, and if he knows Cordia probably knows, so even if one of the other wants to stir shit they would intervene, but I was meaning more on the Mc being "Okay, I trust you guys enough now to come clean about this", and being a shown of thrust for both parts, the family in accepting him in a higher position, and him accepting that they are not his enemies. Maybe this would be saved for a future Ranking though.

About Wilfred removing the bugs himself, I don't think that is how he works, is more likely that he would leave them for the Mc to do something about it, and then wait and see if the Mc can get out of whatever mess we put him through, and if not, then intervene with Cordia.

I could definitely see MC coming clean towards Cordia about the bug in her office. After a talk like the late night scene following to her saying something along the lines of she knew but MC telling her makes her........ happy

Well... Wilfred sharing that information with Cordia is not something I'm sure about. He seems to have his own agenda and yes
the flashback scene just shows how loyal he is to the ladies/family. I do think however that he will always do and act on what he thinks is best for them even if it's not something they would want.

What I meant to express was Wilfred's elusiveness in being there for MC. It's like he wants us to know what is going on around the house, how the relationships between the family members are and somehow use MC to "fix" or make amends for the wrongs he perceives around him? If that makes sense. Anyway I meant that having Wilfred protect you from any possible fallout by removing them himself ( when and if needs be ) would in my mind work cause you share a common goal. And it wouldn't serve Wilfred plans/goals if there were to be a big fallout over them.

I don't know about that. Luna was only forgiving to MC because she didn't see him plant the bug (all she thought he was doing was just snooping around, which in her mind wasn't too big of an offense). She probably wouldn't have been as understanding/forgiving if she was realizing he was planting bugs in her room.

I still think if MC gets caught (regarding the bugs, though whether bugs actually have impact on story or not is yet to be determined), he'll get some sort of punishment (or he would have to do something for the girls to make up for his actions as an alternative).
Sure, he can try to guilt-trip them saying he was targetted 3 times, but it doesn't change the fact he was spying on them.

It may have been reasonable in MC's POV to install the bugs, but it's also reasonable from the girls' POV to be furious/disappointed with him, as well as feeling he should be punished in some way for his actions.

Luna said it best when she caught MC with the following line:

"Still, you're sniffing around in my room, without my knowledge. That makes a a bit......mad. Can you blame me for that?"

He's got manipulation skills, yes, but previous times in situations where's he's caught being in the wrong, he's been lucky enough in which his offense wasn't that great (Cordia's office, looking for his contract), or his heart was in the right place (getting stuck in the cold storage room with Isabel & Gracie - here he's able to talk himself out of it by saying he "had the best of intentions for you girls").
Just can't see him talk himself out of this one where he is in the right.

Besides, perhaps this is just me, but if he gets in trouble and every time, the girls either forgive him or he can talk himself out of any consequences, I would just find the storytelling lacking in tension (and it wouldn't really make sense as well, considering the girls got punished with "beach prison" event with the whole exploding pink paint bomb in their bathroom, which is basically child's play compared to MC planting bugs in their rooms).

But even with punishments, I'm kinda getting the feeling it will be light (and not serious punishment), especially if it's audio recorder MC used (for cameras, probably something a bit worse). Probably like MC gets grounded for couple of days or something.

No Luna didn't see him plant the bug, but I fail to understand your reasoning in that being worse than a complete stranger being in her room when she explicitly told him not to go in there in the "tour" of the house? As invasion of privacy goes I would argue they are the same at that point in time but she was very reasonable and understanding to where MC was coming from after being poisoned.

With that I mean that there are a lot of "softening" circumstances for the MC with his motivations to plant those bugs.
I do agree with you that IF the bugs are to be found, there definitely should be consequences like I said I just can't imagine them
to be that big of a deal. So I agree with you on everything else and it will be fun to see what will actually happen when the time comes.

By the way,
I made a dumb dumb..... It's actually 4 assassination attempts I forgot the one in story 3 The punishment
( How come none of you DeLuca's pointed that out? )

All that aside though, MC does sometimes feel playfully naive and despite getting in certain situations more lucky to get out of it than anything else. I honestly can't wait to see more of this MC ;

Spoiler: MC

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[TundraLupus]

This has been my assumption since the beginning:

Wilfred and Cordia straight up know about the bugs. Luna, Isabel, Gracie and Antonio don't.

I don't think at all either Wilfred or Cordia will help MC get out of the problem if they are found. It is his responsibility and if anything they will take advantage of the situation to teach MC a lesson. Not in the bad sense of teaching a lesson, but in the sense of letting him grow up more in what it means to be part of a mafia family: you know, unconditional trust to the members of the family, the family first policy and absolute respect to the members that are above you in the power structure or something like that.

Neither I think it will be a big deal. Obviously, the girl will feel betrayed or something, but it will not be something huge.

Yeah, I meant kind of the same, maybe didn't frame in the right manner, on another note, for me the "absolute respect to the members that are above you in the power" is an absolute no, fuck that, you get my respect after you earn it, Antonio, for example, hasn't yet.

 

[Ayhsel]

Yeah, I meant kind of the same, maybe didn't frame in the right manner, on another note, for me the "absolute respect to the members that are above you in the power" is an absolute no, fuck that, you get my respect after you earn it, Antonio, for example, hasn't yet.

Hey I agree with you. But I always got the feeling that in mafia the power structure is huge. Remember when the son of the other family came and spoke bad to Cordia? It ended up with him being dead.

I am not saying I am supporting it neither that it holds the Deluca, just putting some ideas of my understanding of relationships in a mafia family. The important point I was making is that if anything, it will be used to further let MC grow in this kind of life.

 

[TundraLupus]

Hey I agree with you. But I always got the feeling that in mafia the power structure is huge. Remember when the son of the other family came and spoke bad to Cordia? It ended up with him being dead.

I am not saying I am supporting it neither that it holds the Deluca, just putting some ideas of my understanding of relationships in a mafia family.

If they demand that, and i have the option, my Mc will say "No, fuck you, you will have to kill me before i accept some stupid shit like that"

 

[Ayhsel]

I never meant submission but respect. Let me erase that part as it seems to mean something I don't.

 

[-L-L-MJ-]

Hey I agree with you. But I always got the feeling that in mafia the power structure is huge. Remember when the son of the other family came and spoke bad to Cordia? It ended up with him being dead.

I am not saying I am supporting it neither that it holds the Deluca, just putting some ideas of my understanding of relationships in a mafia family. The important point I was making is that if anything, it will be used to further let MC grow in this kind of life.

I think you need to make a distinction between respect and common decency, courtesy to someone in power.
Besides Straffan got shot for that in the arm I think? He ended up dead because he thought he could scheme his way into a more powerful position.

 

[TundraLupus]

I never meant submission but respect. Let me erase that part as it seems to mean something I don't.

Oh, I meant respect as well, respecting someone for the sake of it is stupid, respect also implies that you consider that person's words to be something to heed, as I said Antonio hasn't earned it, I will interrupt, and even go head to head with him if I think he is wrong, but respect in a Mafia setting normally means you shut up and do what you are told

 

[Ayhsel]

Oh, I meant respect as well, respecting someone for the sake of it is stupid, respect also implies that you consider that person's words to be something to heed, as I said Antonio hasn't earned it, I will interrupt, and even go head to head with him if I think he is wrong, but respect in a Mafia setting normally means you shut up and do what you are told

I meant it more in the way -L-L-MJ- explain it. Like I don't think you have to agree to what Antonio says, but they will expect you to at least listen to him when he speaks.

Again, I am not saying I am supporting it nor I don't agree with you on what is a more normal relationship. What I mean is about what is my understanding of what is expected in a Mafia setting. I am almost surely that if Antonio is speaking and MC shuts him up, it will not look natural or good to the other members. That is not to say MC cannot speak up and explain why he disagrees with Antonio. Am I being clear?