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Ben Smith541

New Member
May 18, 2018
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No, my post is an elaboration on the real concerns I had in my review and that I don't think I articulated very well. My review was based on serious frustration with a game that made no sense peppered with dialogue that comes off as inane. I don't think such games are unsalvageable. In fact, I proposed several easy means to correct some of those problems. Ultimately, the dev can do what he wants. There's lots of badly done porn out there, so I should expect people to defend badly done porn games.

I conceded that unrealistic stuff happens in games and there's nothing wrong with that. The stupidity of your response is that you can suspend disbelief and have a game about incest. But, having the son interpret his mom sitting next to him at a restaurant for dinner as her "macking" on him is kinda lame and strains credulity. I wasn't advocating against NTR, I was pointing out that how it was accomplished was weak, unnecessary, uninteresting and, to a degree, really frustrating. It was lazy storytelling. The NTR content can be easily achieved without the implausible circumstances and nonsensical dialogue.
I agree that the story line is not the most elaborate or best I have seen. However at the same time people want to see action and not just read a book for 20 mins. I think he made this decision to get more people to try a new game. If the first demo was reading a long story I doubt many people would continue to support this game, most people are not on this site for that. I'm sure it's not easy to manage a balance which would make everyone happy. I have played much worse and unrealistic stories then this in the same genre. They are much more popular then this game. for example tyrant. The story was so insane and unrealistic I saw fans had to make up their own story for it. Yet it is still very popular.

If the developer can craft a more engaging story i'm 100% for that of course but honestly I don't really expect that from these type of games. I admit it would be great though because typically this genre has terrible story telling. If I want an interesting story I would read a book.


"The stupidity of your response is that you can suspend disbelief and have a game about incest. But, having the son interpret his mom sitting next to him at a restaurant for dinner as her "macking" on him is kinda lame"

I'm not 100% sure what you are saying. I assume you are talking about the scene where you are asked if you want to let her sit next to him or not? How is that unrealistic that he would try something again when that same guy just grabbed her ass the day before in plain sight? What did you think would happen if you let her sit next to him? Would you let your wife/daughter sit next to a guy that did that to her the day before?
 

RedPillBlues

I Want to Rock your Body (To the Break of Dawn)
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Jun 5, 2017
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I agree that the story line is not the most elaborate or best I have seen. However at the same time people want to see action and not just read a book for 20 mins. I think he made this decision to get more people to try a new game. If the first demo was reading a long story I doubt many people would continue to support this game, most people are not on this site for that.
Hows a 45 minutes car segment of only narrative for you? https://f95zone.to/threads/gates-motel-v0-2a-p_s_y_c_h_o.23302/
 

Ben Smith541

New Member
May 18, 2018
6
3
I think you are A Smith on patreon, right?
Well, if even our patrons say so, I will support when I have free time then.
Yes but you don't have to listen to me I will still support this game, don't worry about that. It's just that I think you will get more people to try this game if you do. Even when there is disagreements here going back and forth it boosts up your game forum visibility so more people see it. The more people talk about it or post here the better it is for you in the end.
 
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Captain Kitty

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Captain Kitty

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Feb 1, 2019
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We think the important diferrence between a game & a comic is that the 'feeling of being the main protagonist'. This includes the feeling of trying to get the scenes, the feeling of looking for things...

Of course longer texts are important also and we will improve that.
 

radical686

Member
Nov 30, 2018
481
1,430
I agree that the story line is not the most elaborate or best I have seen. However at the same time people want to see action and not just read a book for 20 mins. I think he made this decision to get more people to try a new game. If the first demo was reading a long story I doubt many people would continue to support this game, most people are not on this site for that. I'm sure it's not easy to manage a balance which would make everyone happy. I have played much worse and unrealistic stories then this in the same genre. They are much more popular then this game. for example tyrant. The story was so insane and unrealistic I saw fans had to make up their own story for it. Yet it is still very popular.

If the developer can craft a more engaging story i'm 100% for that of course but honestly I don't really expect that from these type of games. I admit it would be great though because typically this genre has terrible story telling. If I want an interesting story I would read a book.


"The stupidity of your response is that you can suspend disbelief and have a game about incest. But, having the son interpret his mom sitting next to him at a restaurant for dinner as her "macking" on him is kinda lame"

I'm not 100% sure what you are saying. I assume you are talking about the scene where you are asked if you want to let her sit next to him or not? How is that unrealistic that he would try something again when that same guy just grabbed her ass the day before in plain sight? What did you think would happen if you let her sit next to him? Would you let your wife/daughter sit next to a guy that did that to her the day before?
"I'm not 100% sure what you are saying." That is very clear.

OK. Here's the thing. One of my favorite porn stars is Riley Reid. She does a gangbang scene where she plays a pizza delivery girl that goes to a house where a bunch of guys are watching the super bowl. Incredulous? Absolutely. The entire set-up was stupid and executed to put Riley in a gangbang. The set-up took up maybe 5 minutes of the scene. Ya know what? In that case, I gave a fuck about the set-up. I love to watch her fuck, and I love watching her get fucked by a lot of men. For me, it was about Riley, not the lame set-up they used to have her get fucked by a bunch of men. So, fast forward to Riley getting gang-fucked.

So, what is that the measure of a good porn game? Well, none of the 3-D models will ever match up to Riley, IMHO. But, I do like 3-D porn. If I could just scroll through the content to get to the fappable material as I did with Riley and her super bowl gangbang, I would. But, I think most porn games are actually trying to do one of two things: cast the fappable material in an actual story or make a reasonable "game" or both.

So, do we just treat porn games like actual porn? Just shrug off the absurd and lame b/c it doesn't matter since all you want is to fap? Why? I can watch actual porn with hot porn stars like Riley that actually move and love to fuck. Or I can read 3-D porn stories? I can even skip in the story to the fappable material. In a game, I actually have to click through the content to get to the fapping. I have to actually pay attention, read the content so that I make the right choices to get to the fap material because you have to make informed choices. I don't have to pay attention to the super bowl set-up to get to Riley's gangbang. It's irrelevant.

So, if the dialogue I have to read and the choices I have to make are lame in order to get to fapable content, what's the fucking point? I'm not going to clap just b/c someone made a fappable game. I can just watch actual porn, read well-written NTR erotica (which there's a shit ton of by the way), or read 3D visual novels if the dialogue and choices are irrelevant.

I play erotic games b/c I want to be entertained by the story and make interesting choices on the way to the fappable content. Otherwise, the entire endeavor is pointless. So, "it's just a porn game" is the lamest of excuses for a badly done porn game. Somehow, games like Good Girl Gone Bad, which has NTR content, does a way better job of it. Honestly, I'm not a fan of the NTR in Bully, but the Dev put a story there. One that makes sense most of the time . . . granted in its own twisted way. It's got a limited audience, but it's coherent and not horribly written.

Oh, I apologize if this hurts anyone's feelings. I'm just really tired of hearing "it's just a porn game" style of comments.
 
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Captain Kitty

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"I'm not 100% sure what you are saying." That is very clear.

OK. Here's the thing. One of my favorite porn stars is Riley Reid. She does a gangbang scene where she plays a pizza delivery girl that goes to a house where a bunch of guys are watching the super bowl. Incredulous? Absolutely. The entire set-up was stupid and executed to put Riley in a gangbang. The set-up took up maybe 5 minutes of the scene. Ya know what? In that case, I gave a fuck about the set-up. I love to watch her fuck, and I love watching her get fucked by a lot of men. For me, it was about Riley, not the lame set-up they used to have her get fucked by a bunch of men. So, fast forward to Riley getting gang-fucked.

So, what is that the measure of a good porn game? Well, none of the 3-D models will ever match up to Riley, IMHO. But, I do like 3-D porn. If I could just scroll through the content to get to the fappable material as I did with Riley and her super bowl gangbang, I would. But, I think most porn games are actually trying to do one of two things: cast the fappable material in an actual story or make a reasonable "game" or both.

So, do we just treat porn games like actual porn? Just shrug off the absurd and lame b/c it doesn't matter since all you want is to fap? Why? I can watch actual porn with hot porn stars like Riley that actually move and love to fuck. Or I can read 3-D porn stories? I can even skip in the story to the fappable material. In a game, I actually have to click through the content to get to the fapping. I have to actually pay attention, read the content so that I make the right choices to get to the fap material because you have to make informed choices. I don't have to pay attention to the super bowl set-up to get to Riley's gangbang. It's irrelevant.

So, if the dialogue I have to read and the choices I have to make are lame in order to get to fapable content, what's the fucking point? I'm not going to clap just b/c someone made a fappable game. I can just watch actual porn, read well-written NTR erotica (which there's a shit ton of by the way), or read 3D visual novels if the dialogue and choices are irrelevant.

I play erotic games b/c I want to be entertained by the story and make interesting choices on the way to the fappable content. Otherwise, the entire endeavor is pointless. So, "it's just a porn game" is the lamest of excuses for a badly done porn game. Somehow, games like Good Girl Gone Bad, which has NTR content, does a way better job of it. Honestly, I'm not a fan of the NTR in Bully, but the Dev put a story there. One that makes sense most of the time . . . granted in its own twisted way. It's got a limited audience, but it's coherent and not horribly written.

Oh, I apologize if this hurts anyone's feelings. I'm just really tired of hearing "it's just a porn game" style of comments.
You're right to point out the difference between porn & adult games.
But there is one thing you didn't say: The difference between NTR adult games & other adult games: the feeling of seeing someone you love (or at least you know) is being fucked by others, especially with a reluctant response from the girl.
I'm sure the most of NTR-lovers want to have this feeling when playing games or reading hentai.
They don't care much about going to a store to buy a dildo then go back home to masturbate.
So if this is a vanilla game, I will focus on those things.
But this is an NTR game, then I will focus on the feeling.

I realised that feeling at the final NTR scene in the dental clinic of MGA.
Before MGA, I didn't care about NTR.

I did checked all NTR visual novel games (built with 3D characters) which first published here from December 2018 until now: No game has more patrons than us except for 1 game (but their patrons support less money than ours).
Those games have better reviews than us.
So, do we need better reviews from non-supporters or do we need real supporters?
As I said, our patrons rate us by subscribing, not by writing reviews.

There are 2 things still need to be improved in The Engagement though:
1/ The feeling of real life like Fashion Business (choose to go to the second floor, choose to go to the car, etc...) so that it becomes more real.
2/ Texts must be improved.
 

LWtbo

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
1,572
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hmm so it apears from what you said if I understand you is that Update 0.4 will now contain 1 none NTR sexual and 1 NTR sexualy scene so basicaly it seems you have changed your mind and are nolonger working alternate updates for NTR sexual scenes and none NTR sexual scenes, as you first told us you were doing, which basically makes the advise I gave people reguarding which versions the none NTR players need to download to avoid unnecessary complaints about lack of non NTR content, and which updates NTR players should down load to avoid unnecessary complaits of lack of NTR content totaly useless now.
so that was a total waste of effort on my part, well where i'm from they do say every good deed dosn't go unpunished so guess i shouldn't be surprised thanx for that.
 

Captain Kitty

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Game Developer
Feb 1, 2019
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hmm so it apears from what you said if I understand you is that Update 0.4 will now contain 1 none NTR sexual and 1 NTR sexualy scene so basicaly it seems you have changed your mind and are nolonger working alternate updates for NTR sexual scenes and none NTR sexual scenes, as you first told us you were doing, which basically makes the advise I gave people reguarding which versions the none NTR players need to download to avoid unnecessary complaints about lack of non NTR content, and which updates NTR players should down load to avoid unnecessary complaits of lack of NTR content totaly useless now.
so that was a total waste of effort on my part, well where i'm from they do say every good deed dosn't go unpunished so guess i shouldn't be surprised thanx for that.
There will never be a month for romantic love routes & a month for ntr routes anymore.
The story will move on according to the events in game. NTR or romantic love routes will depend on the situation.
 
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Master of Puppets

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Oct 5, 2017
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I did checked all NTR visual novel games (built with 3D characters) which first published here from December 2018 until now: No game has more patrons than us except for 1 game (but their patrons support less money than ours).
Those games have better reviews than us.
So, do we need better reviews from non-supporters or do we need real supporters?
As I said, our patrons rate us by subscribing, not by writing reviews.
That doesn't justify ignoring feedback though. Do you think that people leave negative reviews for fun? No, they give low ratings because they see problems with the game. You don't have to agree with them, you don't have to implement their suggestions if they make them, but you should listen to them and consider if they might have a point. Especially if there is a common theme to many of them. You shouldn't just ignore them because "it's patron numbers that matter". More people are more likely to become patrons the better the game is, so you should welcome feedback that identifies weaknesses in your game that you can improve. As I said in a previous post (since deleted, ironically), if you're only interested in positive feedback, that's a problem.
 

Captain Kitty

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Feb 1, 2019
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That doesn't justify ignoring feedback though. Do you think that people leave negative reviews for fun? No, they give low ratings because they see problems with the game. You don't have to agree with them, you don't have to implement their suggestions if they make them, but you should listen to them and consider if they might have a point. Especially if there is a common theme to many of them. You shouldn't just ignore them because "it's patron numbers that matter". More people are more likely to become patrons the better the game is, so you should welcome feedback that identifies weaknesses in your game that you can improve. As I said in a previous post (since deleted, ironically), if you're only interested in positive feedback, that's a problem.
I only have one question for you: If I change things according to those feedbacks, how many people will support us and how many people will leave us?

First example: Most people in this forum tell us to write the story to be as long as possible, such as giving more details about going to buy a dildo then come back home to masturbate. If I do that, the renderer can't finish all the scenes in time. And the result is: we must delay the release date or the version won't have any animated erotic scenes, especially NTR scenes. What will this change bring to us? People who are currently supporting us want NTR scenes. If we go on making many unwanted scenes, they will leave us because there will be less NTR scenes. But if we do that to satisfy some people here, will these people become our patrons to replace those who will leave us?

Second example: Most people here want to have more romantic love contents in the game. Even some people want us to remove NTR out of our game. But according to our poll, Most of our patrons need more NTR contents, not romantic love contents. If I change to write more romantic love contents, how many people here will support us and how many people will leave us?

I think the wise choice is to keep those who are supporting us before trying to get more supporters.

We are listening, but only change what we see are suitable to our conditions.
Such as now we can render faster, the story will have more details.

Thank you all for your good intentions in reviewing and discussing.
But we can't satisfy all of your requests.

We can only change things under 2 conditions:
1/ We can do those things right away. If not, we will do those things in the future.
2/ That action won't affect our current patrons.

Thanks again.
 

Captain Kitty

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It seems that our patrons think a longer story (like a visual novel - eroge) is as important as an erotic scene.
We're going to improve this part.
We will consider all bad reviews to make polls to choose what we should improve next.
 
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Captain Kitty

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From a review:

But this also means the number of different permutation of routes will be high rather than just alpha/beta 2 route. I wonder how the developers can pull this off.
This system is more complicated than points system in coding.
A scene you see in game must be written 6-8 times or more when coding.
We can copy and paste but the hardest thing is to make sure the route is not wrong.
 

radical686

Member
Nov 30, 2018
481
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The difference between NTR adult games & other adult games: the feeling of seeing someone you love (or at least you know) is being fucked by others, especially with a reluctant response from the girl.
Sorry, NTR does not exclusively involve rape or non-consensual behavior. Much of NTR has a willing component. It's not restricted to men, and the person being fucked doesn't have to be coerced into doing it. The main component of NTR is jealousy, not consensual behavior.

Second, there are lots of corruption games, blackmail games, etc where they evoke an emotional response from the protagonist. So, don't snowflake yourself into excusing bad writing because NTR content providers deserve a special pass. There is plenty of well written NTR erotic literature, visual novels, and porn. A shit ton of it posted on other forums. Poor writing is poor writing, regardless of the emotion, it is trying to evoke.

When the MC's girlfriend gets off the phone and says "maybe he doesn't care about me" my reaction wasn't being jealous of the male protagonist, it was incredulity. How shallow and insecure is the protagonist that she is jealous of her boyfriend because he is going to a bar to have drinks with a work colleague when they're out of town? If anything, I would think gosh, I wish I were there so I could go with him. Granted that is a kind of jealous reaction, but one that says "it's not fair that he can go out for drinks with his colleague in another town and I'm stuck here at home. I'm going to go out and have some fun too." It's jealousy associated with being left out, not rejection.

Now, if he was in town and insisted I not go with him to have drinks and dinner with his business colleague, that would prompt jealousy. If he tried to convince me that I shouldn't join him b/c it was just going to be a boring work meeting over dinner and drinks, I would be jealous AND suspicious. But, right now I think the female protagonist is a crazy person.

So, tell me, why does the business meeting have to be out of town? Most people get jealous of their spouses and boyfriends when they feel like they're spending a lot of time at work and not spending time with them. So, why does it have to be out of town, when you can create a shit ton of jealous circumstances with the boyfriend in town. The out of town business trip is an unnecessary contrivance.

I actually know the answer to that. You can't create stupid situations where a woman shows up in his hotel room and the girlfriend hears her in the background. <facepalm>. It's lazy storytelling. A good writer could create that situation in town too.
 

Captain Kitty

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Feb 1, 2019
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Sorry, NTR does not exclusively involve rape or non-consensual behavior. Much of NTR has a willing component. It's not restricted to men, and the person being fucked doesn't have to be coerced into doing it. The main component of NTR is jealousy, not consensual behavior.

Second, there are lots of corruption games, blackmail games, etc where they evoke an emotional response from the protagonist. So, don't snowflake yourself into excusing bad writing because NTR content providers deserve a special pass. There is plenty of well written NTR erotic literature, visual novels, and porn. A shit ton of it posted on other forums. Poor writing is poor writing, regardless of the emotion, it is trying to evoke.

When the MC's girlfriend gets off the phone and says "maybe he doesn't care about me" my reaction wasn't being jealous of the male protagonist, it was incredulity. How shallow and insecure is the protagonist that she is jealous of her boyfriend because he is going to a bar to have drinks with a work colleague when they're out of town? If anything, I would think gosh, I wish I were there so I could go with him.

Now, if he was in town and insisted I not go with him to have drinks and dinner with his business colleague, that would prompt jealousy. If he tried to convince me that I shouldn't join him b/c it was just going to be a boring work meeting over dinner and drinks, I would be jealous AND suspicious. But, right now I think the female protagonist is a crazy person.

So, tell me, why does the business meeting have to be out of town? Most people get jealous of their spouses and boyfriends when they feel like they're spending a lot of time at work and not spending time with them. So, why does it have to be out of town, when you can create a shit ton of jealous circumstances with the boyfriend in town. The out of town business trip is an unnecessary contrivance.

I actually know the answer to that. You can't create stupid situations where a woman shows up in his hotel room and the girlfriend hears her in the background. <facepalm>. It's lazy storytelling. A good writer could create that situation in town too.
For short: You want a jealous feeling.
I'm not sure you're a man or a girl.
As a guy, I don't have a jealous feeling when someone I know is being fucked.
That is just horny and sometimes is sad if I love the girl.
I didn't feel jealous when seeing the girlfriend in MGA was being fucked.
I felt horny and the last scene at the dental clinic, I felt sad.
I'm sorry that The Engagement can't satisfy your jealousy fetish.

About the very first scene in this game: It was actually shallow. I don't deny that. That was the first scene I've ever written. I can only improve day by day.

There are 2 ways in writings: All the details appear as a sequence or they will be disclosed slowly.
I have reasons for why the meeting was outside of their town and for some sentence like 'Don't you remember the time at school', etc...

I'm sorry that I'm just a lazy storyteller and sorry for making you play this bad game. Please move on with your life. Don't waste your time on rubbish games like The Engagement.

Again, I wonder why I must hear people speak like I must satisfy their needs?

If I rewrite the story again, I will never add the reason why the meeting must be out of town. Because it is in the future update.

As for people think Winton is in cahoots with the boss, that's what they think. That's not true in the next update.

Even my patrons asked me about the Winton scene, I didn't answer. Why must I answer you the reason about the business trip when the game is not finished yet?

If you don't like the story appears slowly but must appear as a sequence like you want, move on with your life. Don't look at rubbish games like this.

I was very polite at the beginning of this thread.

But I've felt more and more irritated when people thought they had the right to speak like my boss. Or if I don't write the story as they want, I'm wrong and they're always right.

I think this is enough.
 

SweatPicle

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May 6, 2017
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For short: You want a jealous feeling.
I'm not sure you're a man or a girl.
As a guy, I don't have a jealous feeling when someone I know is being fucked.
That is just horny and sometimes is sad if I love the girl.
I didn't feel jealous when seeing the girlfriend in MGA was being fucked.
I felt horny and the last scene at the dental clinic, I felt sad.
I'm sorry that The Engagement can't satisfy your jealousy fetish.

About the very first scene in this game: It was actually shallow. I don't deny that. That was the first scene I've ever written. I can only improve day by day.

There are 2 ways in writings: All the details appear as a sequence or they will be disclosed slowly.
I have reasons for why the meeting was outside of their town and for some sentence like 'Don't you remember the time at school', etc...

I'm sorry that I'm just a lazy storyteller and sorry for making you play this bad game. Please move on with your life. Don't waste your time on rubbish games like The Engagement.

Again, I wonder why I must hear people speak like I must satisfy their needs?

If I rewrite the story again, I will never add the reason why the meeting must be out of town. Because it is in the future update.

As for people think Winton is in cahoots with the boss, that's what they think. That's not true in the next update.

Even my patrons asked me about the Winton scene, I didn't answer. Why must I answer you the reason about the business trip when the game is not finished yet?

If you don't like the story appears slowly but must appear as a sequence like you want, move on with your life. Don't look at rubbish games like this.

I was very polite at the beginning of this thread.

But I've felt more and more irritated when people thought they had the right to speak like my boss. Or if I don't write the story as they want, I'm wrong and they're always right.

I think this is enough.
patrons are paying u and technally ur patrons are ur boss they are paying u with out there money ur game will have a fast abandon tag but don't react to haters but talk more with ur patrons for ideas and wat could go better and if u talk shit like this that is gonna cost u many patrons
 

RedPillBlues

I Want to Rock your Body (To the Break of Dawn)
Donor
Jun 5, 2017
5,059
12,555
There will never be a month for romantic love routes & a month for ntr routes anymore.
The story will move on according to the events in game. NTR or romantic love routes will depend on the situation.
I fully support this.
 

Captain Kitty

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Feb 1, 2019
1,083
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patrons are paying u and technally ur patrons are ur boss they are paying u with out there money ur game will have a fast abandon tag but don't react to haters but talk more with ur patrons for ideas and wat could go better and if u talk shit like this that is gonna cost u many patrons
Have I ever used bad words to anyone like you said I talked shit?
We don't need supports or money from people who don't respect us.
This is crossing the line.
 

radical686

Member
Nov 30, 2018
481
1,430
But I've felt more and more irritated when people thought they had the right to speak like my boss.
It wasn't my intention to offend and I'm sorry if it feels like I'm over-reacting. I don't expect you to change everything to my tastes. In fact, I don't necessarily expect you to change anything. As I said, Bully is not my cup of tea for NTR content but I totally understand people that do enjoy it.

For short: You want a jealous feeling.
If I rewrite the story again, I will never add the reason why the meeting must be out of town. Because it is in the future update.
I mentioned the "out of town part" because it's honestly easier to create romantic jealousy when one of the protagonists is deliberately [leaving out/ignoring] his/her partner when he goes out for dinners, drinks, etc. with a colleague. An out of town trip paid by your employer de facto leaves the partner out. So, most jealous feelings invoked are of the "feeling left out" kind, not the "he doesn't care about me" kind. In fact, the "feeling left out" kind of jealousy can be evoked even if he's going out for a drink with his male colleagues.

For instance, In the game "Where it all began" the MC went out for drinks and his girlfriend Miru was rightly jealous of him not inviting her.

So, if you change it to "it's not fair that he gets to go out while I'm stuck at home" it will sound more reasonable. You're more accurately identifying the feeling of jealousy.

I'll not add any more, because It's not my intention to simply bash you. I think the story has merit and potential.
 
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2.20 star(s) 46 Votes