VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.4.0] [Ceolag]

[nitkonikic]

I have to disagree a bit.
In the friend route, Kaija is touched by this situation. She is sad. I'm NOT saying that she is as hurt as MC but she is suffering also in her way.

Not seeing it, sorry.

Love route, sure, ton of both hints, visual cues (bench scene + shower scene), but friend route she acts like her actions are justified because it was her job.

MC was just unlucky enough the easiest way to do her job was most digusting one as well.

She might have been his friend in the past, but her actions in present are nothing short of cruel and job oriented. What friend would do what she did?

Scarring someone for life is hardly action of someone saying they care.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Not seeing it, sorry.

Love route, sure, ton of both hints, visual cues (bench scene + shower scene), but friend route she acts like her actions are justified because it was her job.

MC was just unlucky enough the easiest way to do her job was most digusting one as well.

She might have been his friend in the past, but her actions in present are nothing short of cruel and job oriented. What friend would do what she did?

Scarring someone for life is hardly action of someone saying they care.

Even love route she is cruel, I simply cannot understand how people defend Kaija. Also you are right, she doesn't show any remorse in her so called "friend" path. She was like "it was my job and I did it, you were just a job for me and whatever happened to you was just collateral damage. I couldn't care less." If we had or ever have an option to let her die, I would/will choose it regardless of the consequences.

Anyone from the Templars is simply cruel to MC, his father knew and accepted what Kaija did to him, his mother knew and supportive to that decision, Kaija is Kaija. Even that weird dude was an asshole to him without any reason. I hope we will have a path to support Elves and get MCs revenge from Templars.

 

[bacienvu88]

Even love route she is cruel, I simply cannot understand how people defend Kaija. Also you are right, she doesn't show any remorse in her so called "friend" path. She was like "it was my job and I did it, you were just a job for me and whatever happened to you was just collateral damage. I couldn't care less." If we had or ever have an option to let her die, I would/will choose it regardless of the consequences.

Anyone from the Templars is simply cruel to MC, his father knew and accepted what Kaija did to him, his mother knew and supportive to that decision, Kaija is Kaija. Even that weird dude was an asshole to him without any reason. I hope we will have a path to support Elves and get MCs revenge from Templars.

The Templars being cruel I wholeheartedly agree with. Kaija I can forgive because she was under heavy pressure from the Templars to do this. And then things spiraled out of her control. I'm not saying she is guiltless. She isn't. But I blame the mother, father and the rest of the Templars much more.

Then there is the weird thing that she is supposedly in charge of MC's safety. But she was frequently pulled into other missions and was away a lot. How could she protect him while doing those missions?

And yes, switching sides to the Elves sounds good to me. But Kaija is coming along.

EDIT: Mother and father is also to blame for never telling MC and Jessica about any of this. "Protecting" people from things they don't know about never works out. And Kaija being security would work out much better if MC knew about it from the start.

 

[Gorse]

Updated my TNT fan sig post with an alternative 2nd sig for Kaija & Medb each (with improved char assets *):

Kaija Sig 2 300 x 124 px / 0,98 MB​	Medb Sig 2 300 x 124 px / 0,91 MB​
LINK: https://attachments.f95zone.to/2023/03/2494449_TNTsiG2a.gif​	LINK: https://attachments.f95zone.to/2023/03/2494450_TNTsiG4a.gif​

​

[* I wasn't quite content with the visual quality of the 'assets' I used before for them on the left side of their sigs. For me it's better now ]
​

Feel free to choose the one you like the most!

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

And yes, switching sides to the Elves sounds good to me. But Kaija is coming along.

There is only one way I would like to bring Kaija with me to Elven side which is Kaija being human sacrifice for proving your loyalty to elves.

 

[bacienvu88]

There is only one way I would like to bring Kaija with me to Elven side which is Kaija being human sacrifice for proving your loyalty to elves.

Sounds like you are on the side of the Hellspawn rather than the elves.

 

[Joshy92]

wait there are some people who don't like kaija? there are some sick people in this world.

 

[Joshy92]

I Agree with some of the other commenters that say they prefer a good story over just mindless sex scenes because i'm the same. And i think this is one of the best written visual novels on this site

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

wait there are some people who don't like kaija? there are some sick people in this world.

Well there are some people who don't like Kaija and there are masochists who enjoy getting hurt physically and emotionally.

I Agree with some of the other commenters that say they prefer a good story over just mindless sex scenes because i'm the same. And i think this is one of the best written visual novels on this site

Definitely I am on the same page with you.

Sounds like you are on the side of the Hellspawn rather than the elves.

Some say they are on the same side. So...

 

[bacienvu88]

EDIT: Mother and father is also to blame for never telling MC and Jessica about any of this. "Protecting" people from things they don't know about never works out. And Kaija being security would work out much better if MC knew about it from the start.

Thinking more about this. The whole situation is because the mother and father wants MC and Jessica to lead "normal" lives or whatever. And at the same time continue being heavily involved with the Templars. It is rather obvious that this would never work out well. If they really wanted that they would have needed to either cut all contact with MC and Jessica or themselves cut all contact with anything Neverwhere.

It is also pretty funny that mother and father preached that you always have a choice when they denied that choice from their children.

On the plus side: MC never got to be brainwashed by the Templars. Although he is already trusting them too much imo.

 

[bacienvu88]

Some say they are on the same side. So...

Sounds like those people listen too much to the templars's vilification of the elves.

 

[Hildegardt]

wait there are some people who don't like kaija? there are some sick people in this world.

The different paths change quite a bit about her, even her backstory, so I'm not sure people are talking about the same character.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Thinking more about this. The whole situation is because the mother and father wants MC and Jessica to lead "normal" lives or whatever. And at the same time continue being heavily involved with the Templars. It is rather obvious that this would never work out well. If they really wanted that they would have needed to either cut all contact with MC and Jessica or themselves cut all contact with anything Neverwhere.

It is also pretty funny that mother and father preached that you always have a choice when they denied that choice from their children.

On the plus side: MC never got to be brainwashed by the Templars. Although he is already trusting them too much imo.

When you think about it, it gets more and more fucked up. Only reason MC and his sister alive because Elves chose to. They wouldn't even know what hit them. I think there should be a path or at least subpath for MC getting revenge on his parents and Kaija. How could someone would do that to their loved ones is beyond me.

Sounds like those people listen too much to the templars's vilification of the elves.

Guilty as charged, sorry.

The different paths change quite a bit about her, even her backstory, so I'm not sure people are talking about the same character.

For me it's her both path. Though "love" path Kaija has redeeming points, she is an evil bitch either cases and for "friend" path she should be some sort of sociopath to behave like that.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

On the plus side: MC never got to be brainwashed by the Templars. Although he is already trusting them too much imo.

I actually didn't understand that part. He learned everything he knows was lies, everyone whom he knows was liars. His gf wasn't there for him, his family wasn't his family as he knows, his worldview wasn't correct so on and so on and he didn't even stormed out of the house, he accepted to meet with Kaija next day, he accepted to help Templars. I really don't get it that part and kinda felt off. That sort of emotional trauma will cause life long scars and he will have trust issues for a long time but in story he trusted everyone even after that shit show.

Btw, Ceolag I know you already planned out general story but do we have Elven path or any sort of revenge on Kaija and MC's family or Templars in general?

 

[Illuminati00]

Is there any way to not act friendly to Kaija? I began the game being nice to her, but after the truth was out I've tried to make all negative choices to her (yet I still got four points somehow). Even though I've seem to have gotten less interactions with her because of this when looking at previous posts, the mc is still friendly to her, even correcting the elf when saying her name wrong. It feels a bit off for him to defend her and treat her with respect after all of this.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

For people think Kaija good in "friend" path,

Let's start with the obvious sitting on the benchscene, she sits there like nothing happened. Btw, that bench is their bench, one of the most important and romantic spot for their relationship and she chose to meet there. Either she wanted to hurt MC more or she didn't give a fuck about it. Either case it's evil, no need to even talk about it. How can people say she is sad, I can't understand.

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She even doesn't care his well being. If he wasn't a job even his death won't mean anything to her. One cannot be more dismissive about the situation.

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zero emotional change on her face after you refuse her tour. Let's forget about anything, their situation their past anything if your friend refuse something like that you ought to get sad. You should show emotion, there is nothing here.

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She starts with whatever happens, she is just indifferent to their friendship. She simply doesn't care and also you will have a friend in me part is just insincire. She says that without even apologize, she doesn't even acknowledge the things she did. If he goes like I don't wanna see you, she'll just accept and move on after hurting MC teribbily.

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She doesn't let you talk, she says whatever she must say then simply leaves. Without giving single fuck about what you gonna say. Also it's right after "you'll have a friend in me." speech. This adds insincerity to that statement.

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She is just joking around with her colleague. When you hurt someone you value and get sad about it, you won't go and joke around immediately, especially around that person. Maybe try to be more understanding but no, she just joke around. Also even that Cianon guy asshole to everyone, she goes and blame MC for Cianon's behaviour. She says "what did you do, he is not that an asshole?" Also also, making fun of MC for the things he didn't know or understand, things are extraordinary and she does that without even teasing way. She acts like MC is the most stupid person ever lived. You won't do that to your friends. No remorse, no sadness whatsoever.

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A clear indication that MC was just a job to her. She doesn't say, I wanna stand next you in your hardest day. She says "yeah, they ordered me to do that, I'll do that regardless of your opinion. Shove it in your ass for all I care." Even that sorry part is there for mocking reasons.

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MC got attacked by one of the most dangerous creature in that universe and she didn't even ask his well-being. Not even are you okay question, she only cares Templars' position on that topic. "Yeah, you may die I don't give a fuck but you should have told us, it could have strengthened our position."

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I didn't put how indifferent when she was explaining what she did to MC. She literally said "I could have done the job without hurting you but hurting you was easier path so I chose it." She said she never loved him. She even implied their friendship wasn't even strong one to begin with. When she saved MC, she cared his health less than enemy cared his health. "Yeah, okay, not dead, good." That was her reaction. She knew MC wasin danger bur didn't even care up until she got her orders. So being Templar was more important to her at the beginning and MC was only tool for her goals. It was same at the end also.

She is one of the most evil character ever created and not just in AVNs. She literally fucked with MC because of her job. A literal fucking evil bitch. I genuinely believe if she got drawn uglier, people here would crucify her. Like I said before "love" path has some redeeming points for her but it all started same for her. In love path, she started to love MC after a time and "friend" path she never loved him. I think we should say, full-evil path and some-evil path for the paths instead of "Friend" and "Love" paths.

 

[Illuminati00]

For people think Kaija good in "friend" path,

Let's start with the obvious sitting on the benchscene, she sits there like nothing happened. Btw, that bench is their bench, one of the most important and romantic spot for their relationship and she chose to meet there. Either she wanted to hurt MC more or she didn't give a fuck about it. Either case it's evil, no need to even talk about it. How can people say she is sad, I can't understand.

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She even doesn't care his well being. If he wasn't a job even his death won't mean anything to her. One cannot be more dismissive about the situation.

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zero emotional change on her face after you refuse her tour. Let's forget about anything, their situation their past anything if your friend refuse something like that you ought to get sad. You should show emotion, there is nothing here.

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She starts with whatever happens, she is just indifferent to their friendship. She simply doesn't care and also you will have a friend in me part is just insincire. She says that without even apologize, she doesn't even acknowledge the things she did. If he goes like I don't wanna see you, she'll just accept and move on after hurting MC teribbily.

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She doesn't let you talk, she says whatever she must say then simply leaves. Without giving single fuck about what you gonna say. Also it's right after "you'll have a friend in me." speech. This adds insincerity to that statement.

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She is just joking around with her colleague. When you hurt someone you value and get sad about it, you won't go and joke around immediately, especially around that person. Maybe try to be more understanding but no, she just joke around. Also even that Cianon guy asshole to everyone, she goes and blame MC for Cianon's behaviour. She says "what did you do, he is not that an asshole?" Also also, making fun of MC for the things he didn't know or understand, things are extraordinary and she does that without even teasing way. She acts like MC is the most stupid person ever lived. You won't do that to your friends. No remorse, no sadness whatsoever.

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A clear indication that MC was just a job to her. She doesn't say, I wanna stand next you in your hardest day. She says "yeah, they ordered me to do that, I'll do that regardless of your opinion. Shove it in your ass for all I care." Even that sorry part is there for mocking reasons.

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MC got attacked by one of the most dangerous creature in that universe and she didn't even ask his well-being. Not even are you okay question, she only cares Templars' position on that topic. "Yeah, you may die I don't give a fuck but you should have told us, it could have strengthened our position."

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I didn't put how indifferent when she was explaining what she did to MC. She literally said "I could have done the job without hurting you but hurting you was easier path so I chose it." She said she never loved him. She even implied their friendship wasn't even strong one to begin with. When she saved MC, she cared his health less than enemy cared his health. "Yeah, okay, not dead, good." That was her reaction. She knew MC wasin danger bur didn't even care up until she got her orders. So being Templar was more important to her at the beginning and MC was only tool for her goals.

She is one of the most evil character ever created and not just in AVNs. She literally fucked with MC because her job. A literal fucking evil bitch. I genuinely believe if she got drawn uglier, people here would crucify her. Like I said before "love" path has some redeeming points for her but it all started same for her. In love path, she started to love MC after a time and "friend" path she never loved him. I think we should say, full-evil path and some-evil path for the paths instead of "Friend" and "Love" paths.

Honestly, I refuse to continue the game if there won't be any chances of getting revenge on her nor if we won't get the chance to stop acting so friendly towards her. It feels really strange for him to both think and talk with others about how she broke his trust and manipulated him, letting him live in a lie where he had a girlfriend that loved him only for it to be all false, and then whenever he interacts with her he is constantly cordial. Not once is any snarky commentary given, not once does he show his irritation to her face. The last image you posted is the perfect opportunity to say something like "I don't have to tell you anything", yet that does not happen. If you choose the "friend" route she is so incredibly cold towards him, yet the way he treats her is like if they were still good friends. Why is he so nice to her, I genuinely don't understand it. The main character is emotional and impulsive(something I despise with main characters but oh well), he proves this by not managing to shut up during the ambassador's visit. The writing for the game is generally good, but it really does not make much sense neither realistically nor character wise for him to treat her so well. He shows irritation to both his mother and Eric, but he has made no comment to her more than the initial chocked one. I do hope she will stay in love with the MC as long as you get all first stars, as I really don't want to keep doing good things to her just to betray her as she did the MC, I don't think I could stand acting loving to her in the future.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Honestly, I refuse to continue the game if there won't be any chances of getting revenge on her nor if we won't get the chance to stop acting so friendly towards her. It feels really strange for him to both think and talk with others about how she broke his trust and manipulated him, letting him live in a lie where he had a girlfriend that loved him only for it to be all false, and then whenever he interacts with her he is constantly cordial. Not once is any snarky commentary given, not once does he show his irritation to her face. The last image you posted is the perfect opportunity to say something like "I don't have to tell you anything", yet that does not happen. If you choose the "friend" route she is so incredibly cold towards him, yet the way he treats her is like if they were still good friends. Why is he so nice to her, I genuinely don't understand it. The main character is emotional and impulsive(something I despise with main characters but oh well), he proves this by not managing to shut up during the ambassador's visit. The writing for the game is generally good, but it really does not make much sense neither realistically nor character wise for him to treat her so well. He shows irritation to both his mother and Eric, but he has made no comment to her more than the initial chocked one. I do hope she will stay in love with the MC as long as you get all first stars, as I really don't want to keep doing good things to her just to betray her as she did the MC, I don't think I could stand acting loving to her in the future.

Although I agree with you about that, I think and genuinely hope it's simple overlook from dev and it will get heavy rework because in Dev's storytelling even their past differentiate according to your choices but both paths are the same for the castle scenes. So, I think dev created love path and simply used it for both paths but will write different path for at least her evil path. If not the game won't be any different from Kinetic Novels and it definetely not worthy as Ceolag's creative mind and certainly not Dev's way. So I am not too worried about it. Though, I think he is too friendly even for her love path.

 

[Illuminati00]

Although I agree with you about that, I think and genuinely hope it's simple overlook from dev and it will get heavy rework because in Dev's storytelling even their past differentiate according to your choices but both paths are the same for the castle scenes. So, I think dev created love path and simply used it for both paths but will write different path for at least her evil path. If not the game won't be any different from Kinetic Novels and it definetely not worthy as Ceolag's creative mind and certainly not Dev's way. So I am not too worried about it. Though, I think he is too friendly even for her love path.

I doubt it will get reworked, maybe future chapters will have more choices, but I don't think he would bother remaking this. As to the "friend" route backstory I can not comment, I am already too irritated to do a replay where she is even worse. All I know of it are from comments.

It is too early to tell if there will be meaningful choices as nothing big has really occurred, but I do hope for different paths. I see no reason other than the current situation for the mc to stay loyal to the templars.

 

[Ceolag]

Hey guys,

please understand that I won't answer story-related questions in any way. That's not meant to piss you off or something but just to prevent me from spoiling too much. Of course, some questions may only be slight spoilers but I want to stay away from that completely.
I do read all your comments and appreciate them.
Most of these things will be explained later in the story, some even right at the start of Chapter 3. It's one of the downsides of releasing "incomplete" games, I guess

Updated my TNT fan sig post with an alternative 2nd sig for Kaija & Medb each (with improved char assets *):

Kaija Sig 2 300 x 124 px / 0,98 MB​	Medb Sig 2 300 x 124 px / 0,91 MB​
LINK: https://attachments.f95zone.to/2023/03/2494449_TNTsiG2a.gif​	LINK: https://attachments.f95zone.to/2023/03/2494450_TNTsiG4a.gif​

​

[* I wasn't quite content with the visual quality of the 'assets' I used before for them on the left side of their sigs. For me it's better now ]
​

Feel free to choose the one you like the most!

Thanks again for your work, Gorse.
If you want or need any render or animation in original (non-compressed) quality, feel free to contact me. I still have everything I used for the game saved.