Ren'Py Abandoned The Red Room [v0.5b] [Alishia]

[RHFlash]

@Luke Lionheart You make some good points. But are you sure she has it set to "charge per release"? If that were the case, then the people who are voting on these "Pope Tier Images" would only be people who donated once five months ago. I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm just saying that doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[RHFlash]

@Luke Lionheart I'm all for defending Alishia and all that, but I'm pretty sure this line is misleading: "But if it didn't change I can be almost certain it isn't from her side. And I knew a few creators who had the same issue with patreon. " As @TheLetcher said no one begrudges her the money, but it isn't some mistake where she's accidentally charged people for five months and it's Patreon's fault. I'm at this point 99% sure she is allowing people to support her monthly if they so choose, and allowing the Pope Tier patrons to vote for these monthly image things. Which is totally fine and justified, but I'm 99% sure the charging is intentional. Otherwise, in all this time, there would have been a post about patreon screwing up. I know you're just being supportive, but I don't think your information is correct.

 

[Onysko]

@RHFlash Let them defend Alishia blindly and ignore any sort of valid criticism.

 

[TheLecher]

@TheLecher, Patrons can confirm or deny my statement and if you were one then you can judge, for that I'll clarify. Alishia herself acknowledged about the monthly charge won't set right with everyone since she doesn't have the luxury of time for full development dedication. For that she actively changed the charge cycle. But if it didn't change I can be almost certain it isn't from her side. And I knew a few creators who had the same issue with patreon.

If Alishia said anything about changing the billing to "per update", rather than "monthly", she must have either said it prior to last November, when I became aware of the game and signed up as a patron, or said it to you in a private message. I've kept abreast of every one of her posts on Patreon, read her posts here, on this forum, and have kept up with her public posts on the Discord server, and I haven't seen any such statement from her.

It's possible that I missed something, but I keep a pretty close watch on this project, because it's of great interest to me, hence my financial support.

All I'm saying is patrons do have the right to voice their concern (hence Alishia's dilemma) but that might put more unnecessary pressure on her. Withdrawing ones funding does seem wise but overall it won't hurt the development of the game since she is unto it full speed.

I believe that many of the patrons would say that it isn't "unnecessary" pressure.

Like many others in this thread, I have defended Alishia here several times, and will continue to argue against criticism which I think is unfair or misleading. But I would say that the time has passed for calling pressure from patrons "unnecessary."

I realize that Alishia is a college student, and I don't think that anyone here expects her to abandon or neglect her studies. I certainly don't expect that. However, she needs to make it a priority to release an update in the immediate future - as in, within the next few weeks, even if that means withholding Pope Tier polls and images for a month or two, so that she can spend more time on coding and what-not. As a Pope Tier patron, I can say that I do enjoy the polls and monthly images, but I'd rather have an update to the game.

 

[RHFlash]

@TheLecher I wouldn't expect to see a game update within the next few weeks. As I've said before, there's a lot that goes into this game and it's all very time consuming, especially since it's very ambitious. I think the reason for the most anxiety is because we're so used to developers cancelling their games every month (BrightSunStudios), that we're collectively losing trust in the patreon model as a whole. If we see a game that's been in 0.1 for a while, our first thought is "Damn it another damn game's cancelled" rather than "It's just taking a while to get things ready for the next version". Constantly it's in the back of my head that I'm going to come here and see "Red Room is cancelled", however unrealistic or unreasonable that may be. The only way to alleviate that is constant updates about progress, and estimations (even if they fall through, it's better to make them for this reason). I'm not saying I'm entitled to all that information, but I hope patrons are receiving some kind of reassurance. Once the game reaches 0.2, I think the pressure will go down considerably, as she'll have exited that sensitive 0.1 phase where a lot of games get stuck. I should be like @Luke Lionheart and just check here occasionally, but my excitement for the game is proportional to my anxiety that something will happen to it.

 

[TheMagister]

I wouldn't expect to see a game update within the next few weeks. As I've said before, there's a lot that goes into this game and it's all very time consuming, especially since it's very ambitious.

The original 0.2 was expected in DECEMBER. I'm a Patreon and I understand making things takes time, but there's a reason I ask for a progress update about every 2 weeks. We're a week away from April, at best she's horrible at planning things

I also mentioned (on here or on the Discord, I don't remember) that once 0.2 is out I do kinda expect monthly updates (or at least close to it) considering a lot of the coding and setup (locations and stuff) should be done at that point.

 

[TheLecher]

@TheLecher I wouldn't expect to see a game update within the next few weeks. As I've said before, there's a lot that goes into this game and it's all very time consuming, especially since it's very ambitious.

Many of us on this forum are well aware that there's a lot that goes into the making of a Ren'Py game. And yet many of us do expect to see a game update within the next few weeks. So your understanding of how involved the process is has led you to a different conclusion from many of us here who also have the same understanding.

I think the reason for the most anxiety is because we're so used to developers cancelling their games every month (BrightSunStudios), that we're collectively losing trust in the patreon model as a whole. If we see a game that's been in 0.1 for a while, our first thought is "Damn it another damn game's cancelled" rather than "It's just taking a while to get things ready for the next version". Constantly it's in the back of my head that I'm going to come here and see "Red Room is cancelled", however unrealistic or unreasonable that may be.

You are presuming that everyone's worries are the same as yours, despite the fact that other people have voiced specific worries which are different from yours. You may be losing trust in the Patreon model, as a whole, but that doesn't mean that it's a collective feeling. I, for one, have no such concern.

There does appear to be a common concern being voiced in this thread, though I still wouldn't go so far as to call it a collective concern, because of the number of people who have argued against it. That concern is that an update which was originally forecast for December still has not been released at the end of March, a full three months later. That's a delay of one fourth of a year. And bear in mind that the update which was announced back in December was intended to be a small update.

This is not a generalized anxiety about the state of all adult games across the Patreon platform. This is a specific anxiety about the inability of this developer to release a small update in a four month period (December plus three months).

The only way to alleviate that is constant updates about progress, and estimations (even if they fall through, it's better to make them for this reason).

But continuing to make estimates which fall through will only upset many people even more. And refusing to make estimates upsets other people. Now it's true that you can never please everyone, and someone will always be complaining about something, but the one thing Alishia could do which would satisfy most people is to release an update to the game. Hopefully, she will do that soon, and then this thread will be filled with people praising her and Elizabeth, instead of criticizing them.

I, for one, would rather be praising them than criticizing them, but they have to give me something to praise.

Edit: I will say that creating the Discord server was a positive choice on Alishia's part. That has certainly helped some of us to be more confident that there is at least some work being done on the game. But it's time for that work to result in an update being released.

 

[RHFlash]

@TheLecher You make some good points. My personal experiences lead me to a belief that long development times are justifiable provided that the end product is good and consumers are provided with frequent development updates to be assured that the game is indeed continuing. But you are correct that I, by no means, speak for everyone, and should be careful of generalizations going forward.

at concern is that an update which was originally forecast for December still has not been released at the end of March, a full three months later. That's a delay of one fourth of a year.

...

But continuing to make estimates which fall through will only upset many people even more. And refusing to make estimates upsets other people.

These lines got me thinking, and I would like to retract my suggestion for release date estimates in favor of progression bars (Ex. 13/20 Scenes Rendered). That way, no one really gets disappointed by missed deadlines, as there would be none, but there is still visible progression.

And yet many of us do expect to see a game update within the next few weeks.

...

I, for one, would rather be praising them than criticizing them, but they have to give me something to praise

You do seem to care about the developers a lot, and while I disagree with some points, they aren't baseless "hate comments". I certainly hope I'm wrong, the game gets updated within a few weeks, and your expectations are met.

 

[Filippa2000]

Idk about you but when Alishia releases new content my hope rises to 110%

 

[fried]

Having more RAM is good but it doesn't automatically mean faster rendering. All it really means is loading bigger scenes. If she's rendering a scene twice and compositing them together and this RAM increase means she only has render 1 instead of 2, then yes that would be 'faster' render times. The actual speed of the render should be determined by her CPU or GPU.

I see what you're saying, but my guess was that these detailed renders were hopefully GPU-based because a CPU-based Iray rendering workflow here would seem kind of slower than you'd imagine for a game Dev to utlize, especially given the complexity of some scenes we've seen. It's possible she's only rendering parts of a scene due to GPU headroom limitations and compositing later, that would seem pretty inefficient - especially given CPU performance compared to decent GPUs.

Yeah, more RAM means loading bigger scenes *only* if she is running out of room on the GPU and Iray defaults back to the CPU for containing the scene, really.

 

[fried]

So, one thing I mentioned not long ago is that Devs should be engaging their supporters more directly when delivery delays occur: work-in-progress offerings (relative to funding levels for patron model), maybe some live streams, draft scene scripts, descriptions of impediments, etc.

A good example might be Ianvs of Doctor Amana: Sexual Therapist, who has been very active at keeping their community engaged here and on Patreon, even though they have gone through a period of heavy code+graphics refactoring and some real-life delays at times (

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) .

An over-the-top example would be Agent Red Girl (

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), who is really the most communicative Dev through Patreon that I've seen yet.

In the business world, the buzzword is still "Agile" processes ...which essentially means trying to scope out and deliver smaller pieces more often while taking some risks that what comes out may not be perfectly correct, but when you can deliver updates frequently and turn around changes rapidly, then fixes and moving forward (in theory) can lead to customers feeling like they are getting what they want sooner in some cases.

I don't think Agile is necessary for success of VN game development, but taking a cue from that for updates to their supporters the Devs shouldn't be afraid to offer their work-in-progress thoughts + ideas so that those customers continue to have a reason to continue paying, among other things.

The new previews shared recently are a good step towards rekindling some positive vibes with the patrons, but it's been a LOOONG time coming and really, more frequent updates would seem needed to help calm down the rightfully questioning critics of this Dev's output and intentions. It doesn't take much effort to share what you have been doing or thinking - just own up to your status and share what you can, then see how the customers react and that communications can help fine tune an understanding of what interim status they'd like to see over time.

 

[Yellow Pheaver]

anything yet on updates? would like to play this more

 

[Ivan1000]

Tried this game in december and still no update till now. Sad.

 

[Pogo123]

the girl in the maid outfit looks hot! quality wise quite nice, but the story and most other girls are not much my cup of tea

 

[Filippa2000]

people wonder why i will never pay for something that i could get for free well your reply is my answer

if im not going to get a update on a game that spent my hard earned money within a month then thats money better spent elsewhere

now to talk about the game best girl is the cop and the mom i dont remember the name of the mom since its been 6 months since a update and i have been playing many other games

frankly the way this update is taking so long doesnt surprise me after what happen to Holy Slaves thus im not disappointed of what obviously going to happen after 4 months has passed

I dont expect this game to be finished just a couple more updates call me paranoid but thats just my experience with how alot of games like this are

most games that are popular and stay popular start off 1-2 months per update when it reaches around the 5th or 6th update increases another month or two for a update and thats because of the different paths in the game and the coding that has be done for it

6 months right after the first update is never a good sign and the excuses happen that are heard from every developer

MAJALIS INTENSIFIES FROM ONE MONTH UPDATE TOO WEEKLY ONES ÒWÓ

 

[RHFlash]

Has there been any news about the Red Room's progress on discord?

 

[Filippa2000]

Man of the house and Lust Epidemic gots you covered for that

I think majority of people here only play futa or trap games since its our deep dark fantasy fetish. I like red room fetishwise since someone like Kendra cucking the MC is boner time

 

[Filippa2000]

Btw Alishis can take months but lets just hope the content is good. We're putting pressure too much, lets cool it down a bit.


@ALISHIA DON'T HURRY, MAJORITY OF US WOULD RATHER WAIT AN EXTRA WEEK FOR GOOD UPDATES THAN HORRIBLE ONES.

 

[Filippa2000]

yep Kendra and Lisa are best girls i wish Kendra was the main character though

Kendra is such a good side character since her cucking the MC is so hot plus the maid is also S-tier. Wouldn't be surprised if Nina had more of those maids.

 

[King Monkey Mon]

Pope Tier image November!
"Thought you could behave like such a spoiled little brat with everyone and get away with it? With me it will not work. You took too much for yourself, arogant whore.
Kendra tightened her grip on Sasha's throat. She could hardly breathe, so every breath was hoarse. Tears ran down Sasha's cheeks, smearing her skin with mascara stains.
Kendra grinned and pushed her hips forward, driving her cock deeper into Sasha's tight ass. She hissed with pain.
Oh, I'll fix your nasty behavior."
Kendra x Sasha Domination has won, so here it is~
I hope you like this full scene style of images~
Thank you for your ongoing, awesome support and positive feedback of prologue, it's always such a fun to read it all~
— Alishia <3

nice picture that racist bitch deserves to be a toy for Kendra