Is valentine really better? Both of them feel they will win in their fight. Only time she got upper-hand is when mc underestimated her.
- Thread starter AugustEsoterica
- Start date
- Aug 4, 2017
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Hmm... Ok... Just turn akira into mc and play the game.... Kill the current mc, his family and loved ones
Just not a fan of passive aggressive redditor-like debating culture is all
At first it's just people posting their opinions, and I posted mine and how I don't find them being humiliating or be-little MC.Just not a fan of passive aggressive redditor-like debating culture is all
People seems to taken it offensive of what I said? It's merely a different opinion and different perception of what we have, and now the thread turned into a warzone because different opinions aren't allowed to exist. And right now people are either being a troll or just really aggressive to each other isn't helping the discussion at all.
I have to emphasized what I meant earlier, the disagreement was simply all of us perceiving the characters differently, that's all.
How I look at Akira is a stuck-up princess grown up in an evil empire that owned half of the city, I'm not sure why people pointing out the Price family as the good side of story but to me the family certainly is on the "evil" side, that or I'm misinterpreting. At this point it's just a build up of plot where the dumb MC walked into a trap they laid out, killing and blackmailing is what the Price capitalism empire do normally. I do not perceive Akira getting MC as a pawn is a way to "ask for help". Treating him equally is more like the turn-around point, definitely not now.
And that was how I interpret the current story, of course I might be wrong and everyone can have their own opinions. Being agreesive to each other just to get them agree on a point is meaningless. And yea seems like somebody struck my nerve as well because people started trolling now instead of constructive comments.
The best I see is either dev makes LIs optional in the coming update or handle the transition of characters smoothly. I said transition because I still believe the ways of the characters acting right now won't last unless dev's follow-up story slap me in the face.
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- Jul 6, 2017
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I do get your point but she hasn't been that much trouble at this current point, has she?
While it's true what she's saying could be taken as controlling and so on, judging from the MC's reaction, he certainly isn't taking it like that - just you, as the player. The MC fires back and the only time he really becomes a little meek is when he realizes what level of threat Valentine is to him. He fires back a lot and even does so at the phone or in the library. He treats both Akira and Valentine like they're equals from the very start, which set a different tone to the conversation that followed.
An omnipotent MC makes for bad storytelling. I think he assessed the position he was in pretty well. He stayed cool, snarky, weighed the pros and cons, had some inner dialogue about how he would probably take the job under different circumstances, too. There was the option to kill them both, and he found that it wasn't worth the risk as Valentine had a knife that she knew how to use, which put him at a disadvantage. We just have to accept that our MC isn't a hotheaded gunslinger and that Valentine and Akira are powerful entities in AE's world.
We are leaving the scene with the threat that many badasses, like her, are now rotting in the ground and if they do come for him, they better not miss. And it was a genuine warning coming from him, not a line he said because of a hurt ego.
He just likes the over-the-top confidence that Akira oozes. I don't find that too disturbing or out of character for him as he finds amusement in pretty much anything. He's clearly a playful guy who barely takes anything all too seriously, so we'll only see him lose his shit when someone important to him gets fucked with or some kind of trauma of his gets brought to the surface.
If I vanished for 10 years and then came back to my loved ones and one of them decided to take a swing at me for the bullshit I put them through, you bet your ass I would take it. After what I put them through, I sure as hell wouldn't dare dictate how they are supposed to vent their frustrations with me in the, to me, most appropriate way. People express themselves differently and the MC wasn't hurt by the punch. Sam's young, got anger and abandonment issues, feels guilty about having ruined Lily's path in life and is unable to help her best friend that's getting bullied. A big brother is willing to take and forgive a harmless little punch from his little sister if it helps her even a tiny bit.
I think our disagreement comes down to interpreting the MC's persona and role/position in the story in very different ways. Maybe I'm wrong - always a possibility. Right now though it enables me to enjoy the story, so I won't complain. Thank you for taking the time to formulate your thoughts once more. Let's see what happens in 0.4 and so on - if I'm wrong, I'll let you know and concede my points.
- Nov 13, 2021
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I'll leave off the Akira stuff, since we've pretty much settled in with our opinions regarding her until we learn more, but I did have one note to add about your last comments about Sam:
They had a specific reacition to him leaving, but that's on THEM, not him.
His parents had literally JUST died, and he left to go live with his aunt and uncle, and wasn't aware of how Sam and Lily felt because his parents had just died and he was caught up in the emotions involved with that. We also don't know what he did that Sam and Lily consider having "saved" them, because neither the MC nor Sam or Lily have said so in the game.
After that, his aunt and uncle were "horrible to live with" (probably abusive), so he entered the military to get away from them.
I don't get all these people saying that the MC did all this on purpose and was thus at fault and owes Sam and Lily anything... He was A KID who had just been orphaned. He was ~14 years old, and people have been acting like 10-year-old Sam was in the right for being angry at newly-orphaned ~14-year-old MC for, I don't know, not choosing to become a homeless early teen in their town?
Edited to Add: The way Sam and Lily idolize the MC is not healthy, because they built up this image of the MC in their minds, and they have been reacting based on that perception of him, not based on who he actually is, so yes, I absolutely put Sam and Lily at fault for the weirdness, not the MC.
The MC did NOT leave of his own volition, and he didn't put Sam or Lily through anything.
They had a specific reacition to him leaving, but that's on THEM, not him.
His parents had literally JUST died, and he left to go live with his aunt and uncle, and wasn't aware of how Sam and Lily felt because his parents had just died and he was caught up in the emotions involved with that. We also don't know what he did that Sam and Lily consider having "saved" them, because neither the MC nor Sam or Lily have said so in the game.
After that, his aunt and uncle were "horrible to live with" (probably abusive), so he entered the military to get away from them.
I don't get all these people saying that the MC did all this on purpose and was thus at fault and owes Sam and Lily anything... He was A KID who had just been orphaned. He was ~14 years old, and people have been acting like 10-year-old Sam was in the right for being angry at newly-orphaned ~14-year-old MC for, I don't know, not choosing to become a homeless early teen in their town?
Edited to Add: The way Sam and Lily idolize the MC is not healthy, because they built up this image of the MC in their minds, and they have been reacting based on that perception of him, not based on who he actually is, so yes, I absolutely put Sam and Lily at fault for the weirdness, not the MC.
[My emphasis]Holy fucking shit, thanks for taking the time to write in such detail, even with the dev's comments that just convinced me as if I needed even more. How does everything go to shit in a single update lmao, normally it is a shit character that gets introduced and thats it not big deal, but in this case it seems like such character infected all others with the same bullshit and now we have this mess, and it is all unavoidable, which is the cherry on top.
I don't want to get involved in the debate either way (haven't played the update yet although will soon)* but just out of interest, where did you see the dev comment on the discussion? Have those messages been deleted or something? Or did they comment on the debate elsewhere? Because I've just finished reading through the thread after seeing there was an update and all I've seen is other players discussing? Unless I've really missed something?
*: This is sort of an excuse. Even after I play it I probably won't have an appetite to get into a debate about whatever I end up thinking (don't have the energy although I respect / sort of admire those that do).
- Nov 13, 2021
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I included it in my really long post. It was from Discord (from back in July), where the dev said: "If people don't like Akira there's no helping them" and "ofc, I'm more than okay with girls being way smarter than me". I addressed the second part of that in my long post, and the first post just indicates to me that the dev and I have wildly different opinions about the things Akira did in this update.
- Dec 29, 2018
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An inconsistently written MC makes for even worse storytelling.
This game would have us believe that the main character is a highly trained military assassin with black ops experience, and yet it would also have him be completely unable to defend himself against a skinny girl in heels. But he's not always inept. He can react quickly enough to dash over to Casper and catch her before she falls. He can avoid someone trying to disarm him when he confronts the stalker. He can block/take a punch from a very fit and muscular young athlete. But he can't do anything against the entirely unimposing figure of Valentine.
During the scene where we talk to Akira in the library, she will explain that she chose the university as a meeting site because it was pretty much impossible to bring a concealed weapon inside. And yet Valentine has one. She can smuggle one in, and we can't. The main character recognizes Valentine when she lowers her hair and starts twirling a knife in an intimidation attempt, and yet she can still sneak up on him while wearing heels. Because we're suddenly inept due to her magical anime-styled character design, I guess. There's really no explanation here. The main character kind of forgot about the
It sucks.
Why isn't there one of those click to react segments in there? He has tons of time to react. Especially since Akira is telling her to stop as she's walking over to him. If the author wanted them to be equals, then write them as equals. Have him throw a chair at her and they can fight to a standoff. Or have him grab her wrist and bite into her arm before slamming the back of his head into her nose. Have him do literally anything other than sit there like a bump on a log while she catches him with his pants down.
Akira's knowledge of his military file is what get him to cooperate. Valentine is irrelevant.
The main character is at the mercy of Akira due to her ability to access seemingly impossible to get information, and she uses that skill to force the main character to get... some information she can't access. Uhhh.... it's a bit odd but I get what the author is going for here. She probably has the ability to hack things electronically and this one guy is doing the old school methods of keeping handwritten notes in a safe or something like that. I'm fine with that. My point is that the plot would move along just fine if we could go all Jackie Chan on Valentine in the classroom. But the game won't let us. It won't let us do anything at all to Valentine at any point.
Even in the morning when she has spent the night at our place (where we once again can't stop her), we aren't allowed to prevent her from kissing us in front of the girls. All the author needed to do was put one of those click to react segments in there that let us toss her onto the floor to prevent that kiss, and I would've felt that the game could recover in future updates. But as it stands now, I can only assume that this is the tip of the iceberg and that we will have tons more unavoidable content with Valentine in the future.
Exactly! This here is the problem. I hate her. Having the main character become fast friends with her creates a disconnect between the player (me) and the player's character. We had all sorts of choices about how we deal with characters at the start of the game, but none now. We can choose to look through the open door at Sam, or choose not to. We can choose to look in her drawers or not to. We can choose to whip out our dick or not to. We can choose to murder a man or let him go. But we can't choose to keep Valentine out of our apartment. Why? Why not have a choice to slam the door on her face when she shows up? Just throw us players a bone here and let us choose to have the main character dislike her. But we can't even get that.
- Jul 6, 2017
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Her figure doesn't imply her fighting strength. Shortly before meeting Valentine, we had hamburgers with a vampire-elf and afterwards, had a moonshine-conversation with a being that looked like it might be a goddess, and the vampire-elf's sister. There's weird cultists lurking in the shadows. It's safe to say that this is a fictional world that has different laws and our common sense doesn't apply here, so it's fair to expect the player to be able to accept that Valentine is, in that situation, stronger than the MC.
Fair critique - I was also puzzled by the fact that she managed to get behind him without him noticing. He did say that he felt a little too relaxed around the two of them and the happy-go-lucky attitude bit him in the ass.
Akira Price's bodyguard smuggling a knife inside the building doesn't really sound all that nonsensical. Did our character even really try to do the same? I would guess that if he really meant to, he would've been able to do so.
It's tough to reply to this, because you critique the lack of player agency, and I think that's valid. About the equals thing.. well, she got the jump on him and with a blade to his throat, there's not much he can do. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If he could go all Jackie Chan on her, then that would be the sign for me that there are no stakes in this story as our Hero is perfectly capable of handling anything that's thrown at him.
I agree with the point that it's kind of a weird task he's been given, given how resourceful Akira is.
I'm sure we'll be able to either kick Valentine's ass during one of the next updates or save her life one way or another. While her specialty might be stealth/hand to hand combat, I'm guessing our man is more of a gunslinger, which gave her the advantage in this update. Maybe I'm coping. If I am - call me out on that if you remember this, lol.
Ok, the way you put it, it seems like a reasonable request. Though Valentine, being as strong as she is, is someone our character might want to get to know a bit or at least not piss off. He didn't seem stoked about her appearing, at least.
No choice is redundant because they all allow each player to craft their own story. Whether it only makes a small change to dialogue or opens/closes a path, they are what makes each persons experience their own. What you really mean is that you dont want choices that dont align with your likes.
- Jul 6, 2017
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What you're saying is fair, makes sense and I can see why you would see it that way. The way they idolize him isn't healthy, no - but I can't say I hate that, either. It's endearing to see how strongly they believe in him. It's twisted, but nice.
He didn't do it on purpose, he has the background you described, but it's a complicated situation. If returning to them after all this time means as much as I think it does, then he does owe them for the radio silence up to this point. I would have to play the game and really focus on it, but my impression was that he is/was aware of how big an impact he had on them and their lives, and what they saw in him. They seem close like family, so I think they were allowed to expect _something_ from him during those years.
But until we learn more about what happened during their childhood and what exactly their relationships were I can't make a super decisive statement, so my interpretations might be wrong.
- Nov 21, 2018
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Eh, no matter how bad ass you think you are there is always a bigger badass. That is not inconsistent. There is an outcome where Frank shoots MC if you don't pay attention. I think that scene was specifically meant to portray that Valentine is as much of a monster as the game would lead us to believe the MC is. We have yet to see her be that monster and the moment kinda falls flat. There is a logical disconnect at this point as to how she is able to pull it off.
Personally, I greatly dislike the trope of portraying female badass wearing heels. I think it's stupid af. Just give them decent shoes so it at least looks practical. Hell if she had taken off her heels to sneak up on him, it would have been so much better actually(and we would have gotten to see her feet
).*AHEM*
You never see any sort of practicing sportsman, fighter, combatant, amateur or pro wear that kind of footwear because it just simply doesn't work. But w/e. It is everywhere from video games to anime to fan art and I have sort of had to learn to ignore it at this point. It does not help the plausibility of the scene however.
Valentine having the knife...considering Akira has ties to the school and is the Price "princess", I'm sure there are options that she has that MC obviously would not. But I get your point. Establishing an in-universe constant just to have it immediately broken feels like cheap writing to make a character look more powerful in the immediate. Essentially she has pawns everywhere and MC has just become one. This is the power that Akira holds.
Agree on the level of agency we have with Valentine. I think her showing up at the apartment happened way too soon, even for a chaotic character such as herself. I am not opposed to enemies turning unlikely allies but still, it's too soon.
Us not having any say in that event apart from answering her question of if we want to change who we are or not does feel less compared to the last two versions, I mean it literally is. We had a bunch of options last time as you pointed out.
Imo, what happened in the classroom had to happen to move the plot forward, it could have been done more elegantly perhaps but ultimately it had to happen one way or another but Valentine at the apartment feels out of place at this point in the story.
I am ok with Akira being who she is. I dont expect the MC to Man of Steel his way through every situation, and I am pretty sure given the stakes that if he tried that, he would have either caught a bullet to keep him quiet or had to leave the city, yet again running away as he himself put it, and then we would have no story.
As for if MC becoming fast friends with Akira...I think this is an example of the MC having his own personality and the plot taking precedence over gameplay/player experience. This MC is obviously not a blank slate for us and so It's not feasible to expect every plot line be liked by everyone that plays it. That's not me giving pass for stupid shit to happen but if the MC is meant to like a core character, which is the case in many many VN's there's not much the writer can do if some people don't like that character. Sure as hell dont expect a dev to change a character's personality just to suit my preference.
I think given what we have seen of him so far, him taking the route of being an insufferable nuisance to the person trying blackmail him is very much in his character.
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- Sep 19, 2022
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This is what kind of kills it. There are several historical points that weigh heavy on the current plotline that we have 0 information on, which if we knew might provide some insight into why the MC is reacting the way he is to everything. But all we have is the MC we know from 0.1 and 0.2 which apparently is a very different personality. The way this is written, the dev is saying "trust me on this" but then has several false choices which just whittles away that trust. Its literally finding a dollar bill on the ground and then it gets yanked away by a fishing line with the dev holding the pole.
I literally just want the option for the MC to not like her - to be begrudgingly at her will and hold contempt for her ability to do so. Same with Val. They're obviously a part of the plot, but they're playing more like antagonists than LI's if you don't take into account the MC's thoughts about them. I just want the options to not befriend them; keep it professional until its over or we have an out or something.
Or, I don't know, the dev could actually provide this background information he's been teasing for 3 updates so we know what type of person the MC is actually supposed to be before deciding for ourselves just for it to turn out to be incorrect.
- Jan 1, 2019
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So, I had a funny thought regarding Akira and Val to an extent (also Sam):
A woman in control is sexy, but a controlling woman is not.
Having said that, the main problem is this, and it's not limited to this game either.
A woman in control is sexy, but a controlling woman is not.
Having said that, the main problem is this, and it's not limited to this game either.
We often have disconnects between player and MC in decision making and thoughts that we can overlook, but when it comes to MC/Player reactions to potential (or forced) LI, then it truly becomes a problem. Let me reject people who I consider assholes.
- Sep 15, 2017
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Since I didn't hear back from the previous mods dev, I took to it to make my own and bring it up to date. If the original mod dev wants to reclaim the mod, I will drop mine.
Here's the link to my mod thread.
Would be happy to see my link added to the OP.
Here's the link to my mod thread.
Would be happy to see my link added to the OP.