Ren'Py Abandoned Vis [v2.0] [Mad King Games]

[Deleted member 416612]

I disagree with this. I think it exist enough (commercial video) games that are successful that this isn't the case.
I can understand your reason and thinking, doubt yet what the Kickcstarter campain will do to help in success for this game.

Some thing that goes through my mind:
Why don't take a vacation on "being" game dev for some weeks or months?
Put Vis on the side, go for Vis Origin and tell us some background or character story from the Vis universe (in simpe VN, some could even be KN).

Regardless I wish you good luck and hope for your success.

Thank you. Related to the vacation, it didn't help. I had almost a month of vacation, this year and it was good for a few months but then I was back at it. The lore that I wanted to deliver, was and is complex, therefore it requires a rested mind and adequate attention.
Related to the fantasy genre, yes there are some games, still. Most of them were released in the 'golden age of gaming' and have built their success over time and they have a brand awareness that guarantees their fanbase.
But, in my opinion at least, can't compare this period with the one when Elders Scrolls, Dragon Age and Mass Effect (I know it's not medieval) were released. And if I look at TV series or movies, we have now Witcher and LOTR which I assume will be for another season and that's it. The last is GOT which is still standing.
I am not contradicting anyone, I am just brainstorming right now.

 

[JJJ84]

Thank you. Related to the vacation, it didn't help. I had almost a month of vacation, this year and it was good for a few months but then I was back at it. The lore that I wanted to deliver, was and is complex, therefore it requires a rested mind and adequate attention.
Related to the fantasy genre, yes there are some games, still. Most of them were released in the 'golden age of gaming' and have built their success over time and they have a brand awareness that guarantees their fanbase.
But, in my opinion at least, can't compare this period with the one when Elders Scrolls, Dragon Age and Mass Effect (I know it's not medieval) were released. And if I look at TV series or movies, we have now Witcher and LOTR which I assume will be for another season and that's it. The last is GOT which is still standing.
I am not contradicting anyone, I am just brainstorming right now.

I thought the same as c3p0 (that you should take a vacation, ITroy had a burnout as well with To be a King, and took some time off, recharge, and he is currently back at it continuing his game with renewed passion).
But hearing you say it didn't work, oh well.

With Kickstarter, tbh, I'm skeptical as to whether it will generate more than what you would have been earning with your current patreon (though who knows, I could be wrong).

I do find it that you may be setting a bit of dangerous precedent to yourself though, with Vis Origins originally started and put on hold. Sandbox mode started on Vis and then put on hold. Now, both Vis & Vis Origins being put on hold.

Now, noone can ever fault you for trying to build the game that you wish to make, but I fear you're running the risk of being apparent as a dev who starts things yet never sticking his gun to see things through with the continuous "on-hold" pattern.
So despite people liking your game, people may be more hesitant to put money towards your kickstarter due to this.


Not to mention from what I seeing from you, it seems you're thinking of a full 3D RPG game in the veins of Dragon Age, infused with Kingdom management of some strategy games (given your sandbox element, and you saying previously you love those types of games).
Seems like a very titanic feat to accomplish, and while it would purely awesome if you could achieve it, I have a feeling you might run into a lot of difficulties/obstacles to achieve that (I mean I think it's even rare for AAA game companies to pull that off well).

That gets me thinking perhaps it might be best if you tempered your expectations/re-adjust your goals so the game becomes something which is more achievable.
But on the other hand, I do like to root for devs when they achieve their goal and something awesome comes out as a result of it.

So yeah.... a lot of mixed emotions (for me) with this announcement.


Regardless, I do hope for the best in the development of your game.

 

[Deleted member 416612]

I thought the same as c3p0 (that you should take a vacation, ITroy had a burnout as well with To be a King, and took some time off, recharge, and he is currently back at it continuing his game with renewed passion).
But hearing you say it didn't work, oh well.

With Kickstarter, tbh, I'm skeptical as to whether it will generate more than what you would have been earning with your current patreon (though who knows, I could be wrong).

I do find it that you may be setting a bit of dangerous precedent to yourself though, with Vis Origins originally started and put on hold. Sandbox mode started on Vis and then put on hold. Now, both Vis & Vis Origins being put on hold.

Now, noone can ever fault you for trying to build the game that you wish to make, but I fear you're running the risk of being apparent as a dev who starts things yet never sticking his gun to see things through with the continuous "on-hold" pattern.
So despite people liking your game, people may be more hesitant to put money towards your kickstarter due to this.


Not to mention from what I seeing from you, it seems you're thinking of a full 3D RPG game in the veins of Dragon Age, infused with Kingdom management of some strategy games (given your sandbox element, and you saying previously you love those types of games).
Seems like a very titanic feat to accomplish, and while it would purely awesome if you could achieve it, I have a feeling you might run into a lot of difficulties/obstacles to achieve that (I mean I think it's even rare for AAA game companies to pull that off well).

That gets me thinking perhaps it might be best if you tempered your expectations/re-adjust your goals so the game becomes something which is more achievable.
But on the other hand, I do like to root for devs when they achieve their goal and something awesome comes out as a result of it.

So yeah.... a lot of mixed emotions (for me) with this announcement.


Regardless, I do hope for the best in the development of your game.

Thank you for your feedback.
Regarding, Vis, I know it is a big project which is why it will require funding. I stop thinking that I can compress this type of project in a VN. I think that three years of development has created a good demo for future players if they want to have an insight into the project I want to build and any funding on Kickstarter or whatever crowdfunding I choose, will remain for Vis budget.
My priority is going to be the new project that will not contain a sandbox. I will try to keep the project in the passion area and to be something simple and beautiful, with a good story but not the same as it would have been with Vis. A story that would challenge existence itself.
Related to abandoned or on-hold projects. My first instinct would be to say "If I could travel back in time-", but I won't end up saying that. Because if I never had experienced that I had with Vis, I would be bound to make those mistakes, now and in the future. And I know that there are people that will understand that I invested so much and I raised the quality of the game, and due to this, I had to compensate with my time, the lack of funding and the fact that I wasn't able to hire more help.
I mean, the game had almost reached now, and the funding from 2020, with the difference that now I am investing more time into the rendering part, and I am working with two other people. So the budget has gone down, as well.
I appreciate the fact that all of you warned me about the sandbox, and I was the novice that has thought it could achieve everything and probably diverted a part of the time, fans and money but I think, and it's only my opinion that even without the sandbox, I would have only delayed the inevitable.
Vis was and will remain my first love (#nohomo).

 

[GetOutOfMyLab]

I guess I still don't understand what the future of this is, then. Ultimately, this harms your reliability, unfortunately. Makes me glad I never invested any money into this, especially now that I'm as uncertain as ever about the future of Vis.

Either way, I do wish you well. I hope you are able to complete whatever it is you're wanting to create.

 

[Vleder]

Hi Mad King,
I'm sad to see that you feel Vis reached a point where you questioned if it was worth it. Like I told before, it's one of my all time favorites here, even considering the twist and turns in development. I really liked the characters and story and would very much like to see it develop to completion. I also think (just like c3p0) that the medieval fantasy genre isn't dying (that would be a long discussion)...
Because of all that I'd like to share some thoughts.
First of all, the scope of the fantasy setting you created should be enough to absorb you for years. Like you, I loved Dragon Age: Origins, even after being a "veteran" of fantasy games and literature. But, before launching DA:O, David Gaider spent years developing the setting, writing the story and preparing it to be transformed in the game we know, which was accomplished by a whole team. You were writing, rendering, perhaps coding too, interacting with the community... No wonder you started feeling some form of struggle!
On second hand, your vision for the project changed when you adapted to different feedback... First the simple VN + the complex VN; then the VN-Sandbox; then the VN or Sandbox; then just the VN. I understand you were fighting to materialize your dream vision but the form it was taking was making you unhappy.
Finally, the costs. You had to pay a programmer (which I believe it was also a problem at some point) and you had to pay for assets (and Vis is very demanding on quality assets or it will easily miss the mark) and then you had to go to your job to pay for all that...
For me, personally, a good VN would be more than enough. I know your dream is the complete 3D open world game but, will it be possible? I'd like to see the story till the end. Really would. And even feel (unlike GetOutOfMyLab who I respect a lot), that I should have supported you, even though it most certainly wouldn't have made any difference...
I don't know what you should do, but one idea of what you could do is very simple. Take a break from development but dedicate yourself to writing. Advance the story, further develop the characters, the branching paths until the ending or endings, mature the whole thing until you have the most polished setting and the story complete. This story is your passion so I'm guessing you'd be happy to leave it written. Perhaps publish it as a book (you probably still won't make money that way) and then come back to game development, if you still feel like it.
In the meantime, you can decide if you really want to go for the 3D open world game or settle for a quality VN, which you have already proven you can do.
Whatever you decide I'll be wishing your success, and hanging around here, waiting for good news.
Take care.

 

[comte bonfim]

Thank you for understanding. Also, I would like to add to what you wrote that I reflected on the fact that maybe the medieval fantasy genre is slowly dying.

Medieval Fantasy, or Medieval genre is one the best genres imho for VNs, it is a thin line between a good story and a cringe one, but nonetheless worthy it, they're scarced but not dying, I just wish people would venture more into it, but I can count in one finger my fav Medieval VNs, and VIS was one of those.

 

[fdsa12345]

Just to be clear, the game is now abondoned right? There won't be further updates I assume.

 

[Deleted member 416612]

Just to be clear, the game is now abondoned right? There won't be further updates I assume.

Hi,

It is on hold until I get proper funding for it.

 

[BGRW2020]

shame it was a very good game, I really enjoy this genre even more than the rest - Hope you get what you want and finish this game it was great

 

[Deleted member 416612]

Hi Mad King,
I'm sad to see that you feel Vis reached a point where you questioned if it was worth it. Like I told before, it's one of my all time favorites here, even considering the twist and turns in development. I really liked the characters and story and would very much like to see it develop to completion. I also think (just like c3p0) that the medieval fantasy genre isn't dying (that would be a long discussion)...
Because of all that I'd like to share some thoughts.
First of all, the scope of the fantasy setting you created should be enough to absorb you for years. Like you, I loved Dragon Age: Origins, even after being a "veteran" of fantasy games and literature. But, before launching DA:O, David Gaider spent years developing the setting, writing the story and preparing it to be transformed in the game we know, which was accomplished by a whole team. You were writing, rendering, perhaps coding too, interacting with the community... No wonder you started feeling some form of struggle!
On second hand, your vision for the project changed when you adapted to different feedback... First the simple VN + the complex VN; then the VN-Sandbox; then the VN or Sandbox; then just the VN. I understand you were fighting to materialize your dream vision but the form it was taking was making you unhappy.
Finally, the costs. You had to pay a programmer (which I believe it was also a problem at some point) and you had to pay for assets (and Vis is very demanding on quality assets or it will easily miss the mark) and then you had to go to your job to pay for all that...
For me, personally, a good VN would be more than enough. I know your dream is the complete 3D open world game but, will it be possible? I'd like to see the story till the end. Really would. And even feel (unlike GetOutOfMyLab who I respect a lot), that I should have supported you, even though it most certainly wouldn't have made any difference...
I don't know what you should do, but one idea of what you could do is very simple. Take a break from development but dedicate yourself to writing. Advance the story, further develop the characters, the branching paths until the ending or endings, mature the whole thing until you have the most polished setting and the story complete. This story is your passion so I'm guessing you'd be happy to leave it written. Perhaps publish it as a book (you probably still won't make money that way) and then come back to game development, if you still feel like it.
In the meantime, you can decide if you really want to go for the 3D open world game or settle for a quality VN, which you have already proven you can do.
Whatever you decide I'll be wishing your success, and hanging around here, waiting for good news.
Take care.

Hi,

Thank you for your kind words. It's always good to see people that are willing to stay during the storms. You are absolutely right. Behind major AAA ip's, there is a huge amount of work and again you are right, as you've understood my intention with Sandbox and splitting choices. Regarding the part to focus only on writing, there is a problem with the fact that I am not a native English and probably these things have been seen in-game.
So, what I can do is take a small break, then focus on the new project on which I will not make the mistakes I did with Vis, and hopefully, I can divert some funding into releasing an update for Vis, from time to time. At least to finish the first part of the story.
Sadly, Kickstarter is not available in my country. Probably it has to do with the fact that we haven't discovered the wheel, yet. So, probably I will leave it as a side project, and if I have a bigger budget, I can invest in it so I can at least finish the first part.

 

[Deleted member 416612]

H mates,
Because I was always honest with my patrons and fellow gamers, I will offer you an insight into how Vis has done through almost three years of development.

These are the total number of patrons through the years:

These are the earning fluctuations through the years:

You probably can see there is a difference between the number of patrons and the earnings. While patron's numbers were sky-high earnings were dropping.
The peak of the earnings was during March 2021, when the earnings rose to around 1100$ and if I remember correctly it was after releasing the sandbox. So, all the things that I tried and I have failed, I did them to at least consolidate the earnings so I can have a forecast for the future. With the sandbox, I stepped into a trap. Even if it may have increased the earnings, it was a colossal effort that has been added to, an already demanding effort for Vis. Once again, this is on me because I lacked the experience and I was naive to think I could change anything. When I did accumulate a basic budget, I invested in the game. Assets, proofreader and dev.
I am putting this on my lack of experience. It was a hard project to start with. Probably I should have started with it after gaining some awareness and experience. But, as I said in the previous notes, I think that with this project I have hit on every problem I could, and I am not ashamed to say that I failed most of them. That is why I am optimistic and say that it has hardened me, and I have learned from these mistakes.

The plan is to use this experience as a new project, within the limits of my passion for creation. I have learned from my mistakes, and I won't repeat them again.

At some point, if the Patreon budget will allow it, I will divert resources and a team to finishing, at least the first part of the Vis, which involves our MC.
As an update, it appears Kickstarter is not available in my country and other crowdfunding sites, aren't allowing adult content on their campaigns. I will be searching for an alternative to adding funds to Vis.

After a small break, I will showcase the new characters and plan for the new VN.

Thank you!

 

[dervalle007]

Well I will miss Morrigan, she was one of my favorite characters of all VNs.

 

[bandyta80]

I am encouraged by NTR content and very nice graphics, we have some ganbang available or at least MMF threesome?

 

[fdsa12345]

I am encouraged by NTR content and very nice graphics, we have some ganbang available or at least MMF threesome?

This game is on hold, tbh I don't have high hopes, Vis renpy version is abondoned.

 

[Stringy Bob]

Sorry to here this is on hold and if it does come back will be in a very different form. I really enjoyed Vis, it tried to try different things from most AVN's. But good luck with your future ventures.

 

[FluffyBunnyCarrotStick]

I really enjoyed Vis and am sad to see the end result. While I certainly wish any creator luck in their endeavors, it's always a uncertain field. As far as the fantasy genre dying, I completely disagree. There are fantasy games everywhere, books, shows, movies... etc. But as someone else already stated, I believe, fantasy is one of the most difficult genres to do RIGHT. You need a definite goal in mind and especially the tone you are going for. So often people try to do too much and the entire project becomes hokey and silly. And again, best of luck to you.

 

[RottenBanana]

VIS was always in my top 3 favorite games! I'm so sad see this project on hold, but i understand. Good luck with your future games, Mad King!

I hope to see Morrigan is in your new game, or i will miss her badly

 

[utiola]

Sorry to see this project on hold. You created wonderful world with loveable charctors, Mad King.
I wish you good luck on your journey, mate.

 

[VivelaFrance]

The future of the project Vis and Mad King games.

Hi mates! I hope all is good with you!
There is a time in our lives when for the sake of sanity, we take a few moments and think of what we achieved and what we will ......acters for the new game.

Sad to hear you will stop development on Vis, it had some of the best set-up around. But I wish you luck on your next project. I do hope you hear the same warning I gave earlier about Vis and other games like it: please do not aim too high. Wanting too much is what leads to the very health and time problems you adressed. If there's one critism I have about Vis, is that it stopped keeping it simple. The basics were the best part. Please start small and don't overpromise, even to your self. The best games are always the ones that are realistic about their abilities and time management. If the game is done and 70% of artwork is finished, then start adding other things. Theres no need to burn yourself out. Health comes first.

 

[josh963]

Please, can anyone tell me, we can fuck the mom yet??