Ren'Py Completed Water World [v1.1] [NSFW Space]

[Skylaroo]

Well, it's a sandbox type game, so the so-called 'grind' is something that is expected - you eat, sleep and shower every day in real life, so why it should be different here? The rule of thumb with this kind of games is not to let your stats go to 0 - if there is nothing better to do, go to the kitchen to have lunch, an empty bathroom to take a shower or get a nap / sleep.

Why it should be different here is simply because it's a video game. Even in this game, taking a bath and brushing teeth count as the same hygiene stat. Being realistic is not a valid reason because I can maintain hygiene in the game just by brushing teeth and never taking a bath. (while I didn't really check, I doubt all the girls eat and shower everyday either)

My main issue with this so called expected grind is that it brings literally nothing positive into the game. Using your own words, do those if there is nothing better to do. So what exactly is the purpose of doing that? Instead of wasting 3 time-slots everyday to eat, sleep, shower, why not just remove those and have 3 less time-slots in the game (or 2 since sleep is still a good way to advance day)?

You don't need to go to every single location on every single time of the day. Open the info screen and the conditions for progressing a quest are pretty clear. It's not like bruteforcing a lock. Just read.

The info only works once the quest is unlocked, and sometimes not as clear when it comes to the time slot. For example when Julia and Victoria in the pool, it would require us checking every time slot as to whether they're currently in the pool or not.

When quest is still locked, there's simply no hint other than a text saying not yet started. We don't know who started the quest, where, and if there's any requirement. This is especially bad for this game because the number of characters, time slots, and locations. We could literally try every single location on every single time of the day and found nothing.

Also there is finite amount of content I can add for a month. Open my Patreon page and check the support I have. With ~$320(ish) per month I can barely justify my time I spend on this, let alone the price of the models, clothing, poses, etc. Having someone helping me making the scenes, rendering them, writing dialogue, etc. is completely out of the picture yet. I too want to be able to spend 8 hours a day making the game and have a few 1080ti-s rendering the scenes on the fly, but the reality is that I can't do that (yet).

This is essentially why the game got off from the wrong foot even from the start. I completely understand that you have finite amount of content you can add each month, and you can't justify as much time for the amount of money you're making. That's 100% completely understandable. IMO, where you went wrong is despite knowing your limitation (time and money), you decided to start the game too large. You simply bite more than you can chew.

Imagine if you have just enough money to open a restaurant, do you open a small restaurant with small menu focusing on one cuisine, or do you open an all-you-can-eat buffet offering 200 different food from multiple different cuisines? Water World is that all-you-can-eat-buffer offering 200 different food with a small restaurant budget. It doesn't make sense.

Why start with 15 different girls from the beginning?
If you really must have 15 girls, why do you have like 30 different locations as well?
If you really must have 15 girls and 30 locations, why add like 15 time-slots everyday too?
To do all those with $320/month budget? Do you actually think it's reasonable?

You should've started small and then expand as you grow organically. But by starting big, the game felt empty. You then made it worse by adding grind to fill up the game to make it look like as if there's something to do. But you missed the point because people play to have fun, not to repeatedly grind stats.

Think about it this way, if you remove all those stats (hunger, coding, etc), does the game get any worse at all? Does the game get worse if MC can just talk to girls without having to learn about conversation? Does the game get worse if MC doesn't need to shower? Absolutely not.

If you're limited in time and money, then you should make the most out of what you have. This would then result in a better quality game which would then lead to more patrons willing to support you which would then allow you to create an even bigger/better game. You have to learn to walk first before running.

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, but to be perfectly honest, this game is really frustrating because it could've been a Top 10 game had it been done properly.

 

[Trasher2018]

Well, it's a sandbox type game, so the so-called 'grind' is something that is expected - you eat, sleep and shower every day in real life, so why it should be different here? The rule of thumb with this kind of games is not to let your stats go to 0 - if there is nothing better to do, go to the kitchen to have lunch, an empty bathroom to take a shower or get a nap / sleep.

You don't need to go to every single location on every single time of the day. Open the info screen and the conditions for progressing a quest are pretty clear. It's not like bruteforcing a lock. Just read.

I dont understand the whole "genre" of "sandbox" in these games. 99% of them are no sandbox games but just add useless grind and navigation to it.

Here it is the same. You cant decide what to do or where to progress. You have NO freedom in choice. There is a clear linear path to everything. You have to do a specific task at a specific time in a (afaik) specific order.

Sandbox means I can choose where to go and what to do AND there has to be something meaningful to to.

Just adding a pointless (in this case at least stylish) navigation and some stats that are only there to bother the player, has nothing to do with sandbox.

When I can decide that I want to talk to girl X on location A at time C (and she is present) and I can interact with her in a meaningful way, than we can talk about a sandboxy gameplay.

i.E. a game with a linear story and an openworld where I only can collect items that dont change my gameplay (maybe some pics etc.) IS NOT a sandbox. Its a linear game in an openworld.

Your game (and as stated 99% of games with navigation, and 99,99% of all RPGM games) are exactly that.

All these games would be better and more enjoyable games without the tacked on useless "gameplay" system. As long as the player has only one "choice" its still a linear game. All this stuff does is artificially and uninterestingly stretch the game time. The game Tangled Up! is a good example for this too. Without all that stuff an a simple linear VN progression it whould be the same story, but 1000x more fun and engaging.

The renders are really great, but you enter a scene and you see 1-3 hot girls and all you can do is "take a nap" ... really?

In the end the Devs have to decide what they want, but i doubt that most really understand what they are missing.
As an example all the RPGM games. If you had freedom there and could follow more than one path, the choice of engine would make sense. But in all of them I can only follow one path linearly. Imagine that with the classics like Zelda and so on. Without side quests and more possibilities at the same time these games would simply be pointless.

In gamedesign you have to ask yourself "Does adding X add anything meaningful, fun or entertaining to my game?" - if the answer is "no" or "i dont know" - dont add it.

Edit:

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, but to be perfectly honest, this game is really frustrating because it could've been a Top 10 game had it been done properly.

Agree. Missed your post - but I think we are on the same page here ^^

Edit 2: To add on this. I still think he (the dev) can acomplish that. I mean. He has the stuff and now it is "just" stripping the usesell stuff out and put this in a smaller and linear story.

i.e - have a look at the game Offcuts. Not much budget, but they started with one finished storyline and now add more and more sidelines and endings to it.

Maybe you can try something similar. Or just a classic chapter based release table with a continuing story.

 

[Ranger]

..........Maybe you can try something similar. Or just a classic chapter based release table with a continuing story.

Maybe you can try it! I'd love to add you to the creators I support on my personal account.

As stated above, this game is my hobby. I'm extremely grateful to all the people that spend some of their hard earned money to help me with it. I've shared with them my vision for the game and I'm getting there as fast as I can.

@wep I'm attaching an official walkthrough, can you please add it to the OP? Also, is there a way I can do this myself (I don't want to 'own' the thread though, since I'm not the one originally sharing the new releases and whoever that is, they might not be comfortable if they have to send it to me )? I'm talking just about adding links to walktrough updates and updating images.

 

[UncleVT]

I'm attaching an official walkthrough

Thank you. Added to OP.

Keep your work, always is good and refreshing when someone try to do some different, with quality.

 

[Trasher2018]

Maybe you can try it! I'd love to add you to the creators I support on my personal account.

As stated above, this game is my hobby. I'm extremely grateful to all the people that spend some of their hard earned money to help me with it. I've shared with them my vision for the game and I'm getting there as fast as I can.

It was just a suggestion.

Surely you are free to realize your vision the way you want it to be. I have only tried to express some constructive criticism. If the game wouldn't appeal to me (setting, girls and renders) I certainly wouldn't have bothered to write such a long post. ^^

 

[AER201812]

great game... ready with whole game... people, stop whining... if you dont like it, get the fuck out.... im waiting for the next episod.. keep up the good work penedeyewink:

 

[Ranger]

It was just a suggestion.

Surely you are free to realize your vision the way you want it to be. I have only tried to express some constructive criticism. If the game wouldn't appeal to me (setting, girls and renders) I certainly wouldn't have bothered to write such a long post. ^^

That's what I'm saying - I want to have it with an open(ish) world, I want to have it with a story, I want to have it with a bit of realistic(ish) grind (and @Skylaroo , believe it or not, every girl in the game is taking a shower every day - you can't have a porn game without a shower scene at some point - rules are rules ), and in order to have this, the first few versions will seem kind-of incomplete with not much to do. I wouldn't start off with less characters, less locations (in fact in 0.1 there were three locations that remained locked because of time constraints), or less time slots for one simple reason - I don't think this is the right thing to do, because introducing them later would either create inconsistencies with the story, or would force the players to start from the beginning with every update. Some may like it one way, some will have it another. But the reality is that you can't have both.

My suggestion to try and make it yourself was a genuine one - once you are on the other side of the fence, you start to see things differently. Be warned though - once you do, even if you find the time to, you'll enjoy playing these games less ::|:

 

[Vaassaa]

I'll skip posting the complaint everyone else is, but there are several games with a similar idea to this one - sandbox, open world, event-based. In none of them do you have to grind as much as this one - orientating yourself and finding the right character is enough. Having to needlessly wait, find it again, repeat and so on just becomes too much. I didn't actually manage to get invested enough, but I seem to recall one character asking for like 40$ every week - which just bored me. Or having to find Julia day after day for lessons. I do excel spreadsheets during my day job, I don't particularly want to do it for my evening fap.

 

[Bird1019]

Uhh, what? Does this mean there's no changing stats or something? Just wondering bc I've never seen variables = <store.............>

 

[Ranger]

Uhh, what? View attachment 159763 Does this mean there's no changing stats or something? Just wondering bc I've never seen variables = <store.............>

No.

 

[bas]

Uhh, what? View attachment 159763 Does this mean there's no changing stats or something? Just wondering bc I've never seen variables = <store.............>

Means they're stored in an object instead of a simple variable. Proceed with caution.

 

[SmokeyDots]

That's what I'm saying - I want to have it with an open(ish) world, I want to have it with a story, I want to have it with a bit of realistic(ish) grind (and @Skylaroo , believe it or not, every girl in the game is taking a shower every day - you can't have a porn game without a shower scene at some point - rules are rules ), and in order to have this, the first few versions will seem kind-of incomplete with not much to do. I wouldn't start off with less characters, less locations (in fact in 0.1 there were three locations that remained locked because of time constraints), or less time slots for one simple reason - I don't think this is the right thing to do, because introducing them later would either create inconsistencies with the story, or would force the players to start from the beginning with every update. Some may like it one way, some will have it another. But the reality is that you can't have both.

My suggestion to try and make it yourself was a genuine one - once you are on the other side of the fence, you start to see things differently. Be warned though - once you do, even if you find the time to, you'll enjoy playing these games less ::|:

Quite a few of my patreons are also your patreons ranger... So I just wanted to take a peek at your work. Since I'm also creating a similar kind of game, maybe I could share my opinion about creating games like this? And, I certainly know and understand how fucking difficult it is... but this is my anecdotal experience and may or may not apply.

There's a lot to worry about in games like this, which you probably already know, but they get even more crazy as the game gets bigger. Balance isn't needed in VN's but in open world games there needs to be game balance. How much grinding is too much? How much is too little? How easy or hard should certain scenes be? How easy or hard to access do certain events have to be? How do you make triggers for storied events easy to find so people can see your content? Make things too hard to find and no one will find it and it will be as if you didn't make it.

Another thing to consider is also, how do you save time, because these kind of games typically scale to infinity as far as work load. You can put in 3-4-5 times the work of someone else doing a VN and it will seem like you've actually done less work. Creating a game is harder than writing a picture book... You probably already know...

You won't please everyone and ultimately it's your vision, but you do need to listen to user feedback to actually create your vision. There's no need to listen to "No Content" posts. This will happen every patch. Your game can be huge and people will still say there's nothing. Good news is open world games tend to shine near the end? Maybe? I'm hoping that's true for my own game at least.

You should listen to users who are saying it's too grindy through. I think the right balance is change things up and make it easier till someone says it's too easy. Then stop. You will still get the it's too grindy non stop, because not every game is for everyone, but you will start getting people who say its just right and then you will have people who know the game in and out and say its a bit on the easy side (probably some patreons?). That's probably when things are about right.

Once again this is just my opinion. Take it for what it is. My own game has a ton of issues that I'm not happy with either, but I thought I would leave a comment anyways...

Good luck Ranger

 

[EvilMonkey]

Well, I've given this a try and I have some observations. First, can we have some indication/mention in the OP that this is the follow on/sequel to "Spaced Out"? It directly follows on from the end of that game and however mixed my feelings are towards that game, it should probably be played before embarking on this one. Secondly, the dev needs to put some more hints in for early game progression. Maybe I missed something but from the outset I didn't notice a mention of the mission/objective/quest screen and I kept skipping from room to room with no clear goal and very little interaction. You can easily inject some self reflection into the narrative giving the player advice on how to go about things, the grind is real and it would be best if that was laid out rather than realised as you endlessly click all over the boat/map locations.

Only having one time slot and location per day to interact with a character will get real old real fast as was evident when I was playing. I stopped playing after I'd unlocked the second mission but was getting bored of the click-fest. I'll go back to it at some point because I'm interested in it but it was burning me out really quickly. Maybe you could put some more random interactions into the game or optional actions for some of the locations (apart from just the "necessary" wash, eat, and nap functions).

Obviously it's an early build and obviously I didn't get very far into the game but there are a ton of locations on the boat, along with a ton of girls to visit/check on, and there is virtually no interactions with most of them. I felt like a ghost walking around the ship most of the time, ineffectual and bored. So maybe look at the pacing and see what you can do to make it more interesting or give the player some indication that they're not missing out on things or on the right track? It's an interesting premise and the visuals are good but if it just turns out to be more of the same all the way through it's not going to please many people.

My two cents. (Depending on exchange rates)

 

[derpdurp]

The posing and general style in this game is great. Pretty much every girl looks good and somehow like an interesting & plausible character. Very few games here can compete with that aspect. Even if people clamor for animated things here .. often they look quite wooden and robotic unless you're really good. A well made still image can relay much more.

I don't mind not having my hand held in the missions, but trying to fish out some random event without a good indicator is a bit tiresome when I can literally look for the next thing to start for 3 days in a row without finding it is just too tiresome. The hints are a bit vague... probably on purpose, but I hate feeling like I'm working instead of discovering. So maybe give a way to trigger some foolproof easier hint for individual quests so we can just progress from that bump in the road. (Or an indicator on the navigation screen like HEY EVENT IS HERE)

Hope to see this game progress and be fleshed out.

 

[supermanz95]

First, can we have some indication/mention in the OP that this is the follow on/sequel to "Spaced Out"? It directly follows on from the end of that game and however mixed my feelings are towards that game, it should probably be played before embarking on this one.

No fucking way, what ? I saw someone mentioning something about it but I thought they ware just taking the piss for both of them being needlessly monotonous and repetitive.

 

[themoonpeach]

I like this yacht!

 

[Ranger]

The posing and general style in this game is great. Pretty much every girl looks good and somehow like an interesting & plausible character. Very few games here can compete with that aspect. Even if people clamor for animated things here .. often they look quite wooden and robotic unless you're really good. A well made still image can relay much more.

I don't mind not having my hand held in the missions, but trying to fish out some random event without a good indicator is a bit tiresome when I can literally look for the next thing to start for 3 days in a row without finding it is just too tiresome. The hints are a bit vague... probably on purpose, but I hate feeling like I'm working instead of discovering. So maybe give a way to trigger some foolproof easier hint for individual quests so we can just progress from that bump in the road. (Or an indicator on the navigation screen like HEY EVENT IS HERE)

Hope to see this game progress and be fleshed out.

Yeah, I'm working on a map indicator about available events, however it is (a bit) slow at the moment because what it does is running the evaluation code for all the locations when you open the map, so I'm working on optimizing it. Most of the triggers are dynamic (not just a certain location at a certain time), so it takes time evaluating each condition and when you multiply that by the number of locations, the lag is noticeable. Worst case scenario I add it as an option, so you can choose to enable it or not based on your preference.

 

[LordCorwin]

Alright, so I think the plot could use a bit more pre-event stuff. A little bit more for us to connect to this guy we are suddenly thrust into playing, I get he's a faceless MC but he doesn't need to be completely blank.

The map and navigation need some optimization, right now it's pretty tedious to get around and it doesn't help that you can't see the character names after selecting a deck.

Models are alright, ship is pretty nice to explore, but it's also pretty empty. You have a large cast, but 90% of the time there's nothing to do with them. I'm assuming this will be fleshed out later on, but at least for now it's sparse.

 

[Bossa]

Alright, so I think the plot could use a bit more pre-event stuff. A little bit more for us to connect to this guy we are suddenly thrust into playing, I get he's a faceless MC but he doesn't need to be completely blank.

Without spoiling too much,

Spoiler

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[Ranger]

It's done - the active location indicators are implemented with almost no noticeable impact on the screen load timing, so starting from 0.4 you can see on the map if there is an active quest/talk/look/event at a specific location. You can check out my

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where I've posted a public screenshot of the map with some active indicators.