VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[Manuya]

Try 'A Wife and Mother'. Current production rates puts it completing in 2065ish time frame. And it gets slower with each update. The updates now are 1/10th of a Playable Day. The Update size is in vicinity of 140 to 200ish renders. Whose lifetime will see the end?

the state of development on that game now is a complete joke, an insult & mockery designed to waste your time. i checked out after the release of 0.160, even the story now is inconsistent & uncompelling, ignored that thread for the better. at least i'm new here but after downloading the "reworked" chapter 1 & been impressed & intrigued with the story premise & renders the chapter ends abruptly on a cliffhanger lol, i'm gonna stick here for awhile to see how long it takes for chapter 2 & if the development here is at the same rate as that game then adios amigos.

 

[DanThaMan]

the state of development on that game now is a complete joke, an insult & mockery designed to waste your time. i checked out after the release of 0.160, even the story now is inconsistent & uncompelling, ignored that thread for the better. at least i'm new here but after downloading the "reworked" chapter 1 & been impressed & intrigued with the story premise & renders the chapter ends abruptly on a cliffhanger lol, i'm gonna stick here for awhile to see how long it takes for chapter 2 & if the development here is at the same rate as that game then adios amigos.

I think this game has 30 planned chapters (same as the devs other game) and at the current speed there is about 1 chapter pear year so.. this might be completed in another 29+ years.

 

[Manuya]

I think this game has 30 planned chapters (same as the devs other game) and at the current speed there is about 1 chapter pear year so.. this might be completed in another 29+ years.

OMEGALUL, you don't say.... so this is also milking at the highest order then i'm outta here as quickly as i came, unfortunate TrollDespair

 

[UncleFredo]

i will be in my grave when the 2 games are finished.

Just have to pass it on to my grandson and they will finish these games in their full glory

I really want to support Where It All Began, but the update is so slow that I hesitate...

I think this game has 30 planned chapters (same as the devs other game) and at the current speed there is about 1 chapter pear year so.. this might be completed in another 29+ years.

I've said this before but:
I too have complained from time to time about Ocean's development choices. That said, I've come to recognize that we are sharing HIS development process. When he started this VN (which I much prefer over SG), he was utterly inexperienced in the tools and process used to produce a VN. Well, he learned a lot quite quickly, and at the same time for reasons at least somewhat beyond his control picked up the/his second VN when the original developer walked away. That VN proved much more popular that this one, but more to the point Ocean continued to explore tools and processes and to advance his skills both technically and as a writer.

For the record, I'm older than dirt, almost certainly one of the oldest folks in this thread. I have no expectation that either of Ocean's current VNs will be completed in my life time. However, I think that at some point Ocean may decide that he's learned all he can from developing the two VNs in question and will pause them to start his next one. Just maybe, he'll finish that one before I'm dust in the wind.

Patrons don't support a VN/game. They support a person. In this case they find Ocean worthy of support. Sure they may hope for the completion of one or the other of his current VNs, but the reality is they're supporting his development as an artist. No more and no less.

He does produce some truly fucking amazing stuff. So rather than winding each other up about the impossibility of these VNs completing, I suggest you just enjoy the ride.

 

[Downbadguy95]

This is the first time I've seen in a VN where the developer gave the protagonist a gigachad face

 

[Frostvein]

Really disappointed this was just abandoned, a MC that doesn't act like a child or a creep along with amazing visuals is probably like looking for needle in a haystack.

 

[Turret]

Really disappointed this was just abandoned, a MC that doesn't act like a child or a creep along with amazing visuals is probably like looking for needle in a haystack.

What are you talking about? Oceanlab is slow in development, but he still works on both games of his. That everybody wants a new/reworked part (depending on the game in question) soonest is a given, but Oceanlab´s biggest enemy is his own perfectionism.
Just read about his woes with finding the right music! Music in a porn game! I normally kill the sound when playing a porn game, it is very rare for me to keep the sound on, "Pale Carnations" is one of these exceptions, as is WIAB. Still, I would not be sad if Oceanlab would just slap something halfway decent of free music into WIAB and get it done with that part.

 

[Frostvein]

What are you talking about? Oceanlab is slow in development, but he still works on both games of his. That everybody wants a new/reworked part (depending on the game in question) soonest is a given, but Oceanlab´s biggest enemy is his own perfectionism.
Just read about his woes with finding the right music! Music in a porn game! I normally kill the sound when playing a porn game, it is very rare for me to keep the sound on, "Pale Carnations" is one of these exceptions, as is WIAB. Still, I would not be sad if Oceanlab would just slap something halfway decent of free music into WIAB and get it done with that part.

From first look it looked abandoned when I saw the first release was back in 2018 and last update was 6 months ago with there being about only 30-45 mins of content.

 

[sorco2003]

Contributing to WIAB through a patreon contribution is an act of faith.
Is development slow? yes, it has been going on for several years and we are at the beginning again.
Will it take a long time to complete? Yes, at the current pace it will. Without speculating about likely improvements in development cycles.
Can it be abandoned? Yes, but like any project in this forum.
With a simple search, there are 14489 games in F95, if we discount the translations of Japanese games (a very different industry from the western one) there are 8791 projects. Finished? 2815
Abandoned? 2632.
Put on indefinite hiatus? 217
There are games that catch the public from the beginning and gain immense support even as the developer's first project, there are others that only with an established base and several completed games, gain "massive" support. And there are others that despite struggling hard, never reach popularity. With its successes and its mistakes, WIAB is there.
But also understand that if you support this project, you must be patient, this project has a sister, which was the little one, that took all the spotlight (much to my regret, WIAB is the game that caught me and in which I have put my grain of sand in the form of money).
And, at least I don't feel that Ocean is "milking" me, and I don't think any of the WIAB patreons feel that way either.
Lastly, to clarify, whoever subscribes, is not buying a game, keep that in mind; but in this particular case, since each game has its own patreon account, whoever subscribes will be supporting one of the two games.
Anyway, there are still some weeks left for Ocean to touch again something in the development of WIAB, once he completes the final version of SG chapter 4. Maybe it will be a month when the routine of a day and a day will be back, and maybe 30% of chapter 2 of WIAB is still to be completed.

 

[Euron13]

I don’t think Ocean’s milking this, but I think his creative process isn’t really working and isn’t sustainable in the long term. Having standards and ambition is good, but I think this level of “perfectionism” is really more of a flaw than any kind of positive trait.

I think if he’s to grow as a creator he needs to learn to make more concessions, because this whole business with the music is ridiculous to the point of parody.

 

[Turret]

I don’t think Ocean’s milking this, but I think his creative process isn’t really working and isn’t sustainable in the long term. Having standards and ambition is good, but I think this level of “perfectionism” is really more of a flaw than any kind of positive trait.

I think if he’s to grow as a creator he needs to learn to make more concessions, because this whole business with the music is ridiculous to the point of parody.

Exactly! As I wrote a couple posts above, Oceanlab´s biggest enemy in making games is his extreme perfectionism. He has to accept that there are areas of game design were good enough is good enough for the game, for instance the music problem. There are multi-million AAA and top niche games from known developer teams with absolutely horrendous music, but they sell. Oceanlab makes erotic games, where music is even less a problem. Yes, it is super to have fitting music in the various games, like epic stuff for strategy of sci-fi games, but it is not a broken leg to have just acceptable music.

 

[Cabin Fever]

From first look it looked abandoned when I saw the first release was back in 2018 and last update was 6 months ago with there being about only 30-45 mins of content.

Ah so you boldly proclaimed the dev abandoned the game, in the very thread that the dev actively participates in to explain what's going on. Got it.

 

[drooopy]

There are multi-million AAA and top niche games from known developer teams with absolutely horrendous music, but they sell. Oceanlab makes erotic games, where music is even less a problem. Yes, it is super to have fitting music in the various games, like epic stuff for strategy of sci-fi games, but it is not a broken leg to have just acceptable music.

not to mention better music can be added at a later time, the advantage avns have over AAAs is that they have multiple releases before product is finished, no reason to delay an update for music.

 

[jamdan]

Ocean isn't milking. He isn't a bad dev by any means, he is actually pretty good.

But his project management skills are poor. One of the most basic things professionals do, whether they're writers or movie directors or video game developers is to cut things down. That's what drafts are for. You take what you want to do, and transform that into what you can do. While making everything better in the process.

Do either of these games need to be 30 chapters long? I highly doubt it.

The music and cinematics and whatever else are side-issues. The biggest issue is the shear scale of the games. He is currently doing half a chapter every 6-9 months so or. Completing these games, or even getting to the halfway point, is pretty much impossible at this pace unless he plans to do this for literal decades.

I've saw others, mainly in the SG thread, talk about if Ocean gets more money he can hire helpers and get better equipment. The issues I have with this is...

1 - If he has enough money to spend all this money on licensed music, he has enough money to hire helpers. This is poor money management. Spending thousands on music is a bad idea when he has more important things to spend money on.
2 - The pace of updates will eventually cause his support to plateau. Whatever new support he gains with a new update, will slowly go back down over the months to it's pre-update levels or it will not be a big enough increase to really result in significantly more funds.
3 - He already has spent a ton of money on his system(s). I talked about this last year, I don't think his system matters. He'll just do more renders, cinematics, animations etc. That doesn't lead to quicker updates, just bigger updates.


Expanding on #2. This has already happened for this game. The level of support now is the same as it was 1 year ago and only modestly higher than it was 2 years ago. He has lost about 100 patrons over the past 6 months, this pretty much cancels out gains made by SG.

You must be registered to see the links

And for SG. Even after the latest release, he only has around 60 more Patrons than he did in December (going off the late May numbers, as not to use the start of month drop)

You must be registered to see the links

SG and WIAB are pretty much sabotaging each other.

 

[Brocolli666]

Hello there, anyone have a android version of the original version? Thankyou.

 

[UncleFredo]

Ocean isn't milking. He isn't a bad dev by any means, he is actually pretty good.

But his project management skills are poor. One of the most basic things professionals do, whether they're writers or movie directors or video game developers is to cut things down. That's what drafts are for. You take what you want to do, and transform that into what you can do. While making everything better in the process.

Do either of these games need to be 30 chapters long? I highly doubt it.

The music and cinematics and whatever else are side-issues. The biggest issue is the shear scale of the games. He is currently doing half a chapter every 6-9 months so or. Completing these games, or even getting to the halfway point, is pretty much impossible at this pace unless he plans to do this for literal decades.

I've saw others, mainly in the SG thread, talk about if Ocean gets more money he can hire helpers and get better equipment. The issues I have with this is...

1 - If he has enough money to spend all this money on licensed music, he has enough money to hire helpers. This is poor money management. Spending thousands on music is a bad idea when he has more important things to spend money on.
2 - The pace of updates will eventually cause his support to plateau. Whatever new support he gains with a new update, will slowly go back down over the months to it's pre-update levels or it will not be a big enough increase to really result in significantly more funds.
3 - He already has spent a ton of money on his system(s). I talked about this last year, I don't think his system matters. He'll just do more renders, cinematics, animations etc. That doesn't lead to quicker updates, just bigger updates.


Expanding on #2. This has already happened for this game. The level of support now is the same as it was 1 year ago and only modestly higher than it was 2 years ago. He has lost about 100 patrons over the past 6 months, this pretty much cancels out gains made by SG.

You must be registered to see the links

And for SG. Even after the latest release, he only has around 60 more Patrons than he did in December (going off the late May numbers, as not to use the start of month drop)

You must be registered to see the links

SG and WIAB are pretty much sabotaging each other.

While I generally agree with your various points, they to some extent are not material. Ask yourself what are Ocean's goals? Based on what we witnessed over the last couple of years, I submit that Ocean is seeking to perfect the highest possible proficiency in production and writing that he's capable of. Period. WIAB and SG are vehicles for him to pursue that perfection.

So hiring help doesn't support his goal. As for your second point, his support has proven to be unlinked from his pace of updates. He's lost a few but we'll need to watch the response to his latest update over a longer period to see how things play out. Further I doubt that Ocean cares that much, and is focused on his craft.

As for your third point. Very large exceptional quality updates that drop infrequently can be just as satisfying as small updates dropped frequently. In the end it doesn't matter. His support will wax or wane based on their perception of what he's producing.

I don't disagree with most of what you've written. I just think that from Ocean's perspective it doesn't matter.

 

[lipe2410]

As for your third point. Very large exceptional quality update that drop infrequently can be just as satisfying as small update dropped frequently. In the end it doesn't matter.

The thing is: the current pace of releases of both games (1 completed chapter per year and both of them planned to be 20 chapters long) put the estimated time to complete the games not in years, but in decades. 26 years for the rest of SG and 29 years for the rest of WIAB. And this thing matter, should matter because no one get younger over the time and Ocean still wanna make at least another 3 games in his "Zane-Universe" but will be very hard accomplish that if he take more than a quarter of a century to complete just 1-2 games. Doesn't matter if updates will have 100 or 10k renders, the pace of release need improve not for us but for himself if he really want reach his goals in his lifetime

 

[08Hanbo]

Both WIAB and SG are great, but I personally prefer WIAB.
MC and story of WIAB are more attractive to me. Unfortunately, Ocean seems to be more focus on SG.
When you want to create two games at the same time, I think it is too difficult.

PS: I've only played WIAB reworked instead of the original.

 

[MIkedante]

Everything above said about long development and quality of these games can be defined by one sentence: The perfectionism is main enemy of the progress.

 

[Larry2000]

Yes.
It only happens if you do a combination of treating her bad, making her do it, and making certain decisions that lead to events that can escalate.
(Except you go down the sharing route and its sub-routes. The deeper you go, the more you might get lost.)

As long as there aren't NTR routes with MC's family members, I'm cool with it. Since you talk about how realistic something is, it'd be really weird for all your family members, that love you and are pining for you, to suddenly/eventually turn to another guy/partner. Especially in an incest game. Miru or a side character is definitely a good way of progressing that narrative. In the original game I was given an option for Miru to be a cheating whore every 5 minutes (exaggerated I know). As it's probably clear, I'm not a fan of NTR, but I believe a path like that needs to be built up and having Katie who loves and adores MC (secretly) would be a dumb NTR path. Haven't played in a while, so may have gotten some points wrong.

I hope I don't see any surprise routes for the sisters and mom D:

As usual, you've always done a good job of creating believable characters (except for old Miru :/ ) just the logistics and actual events were poor at times (camping scene which was broken at times). I can't wait to get to play this new version. I want to wait a little more before I dive in! Much LOVE!