VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[slightchance]

As long as there aren't NTR routes with MC's family members, I'm cool with it. Since you talk about how realistic something is, it'd be really weird for all your family members, that love you and are pining for you, to suddenly/eventually turn to another guy/partner.

I mean there's love and respect between family members and then there's the deep bond between two partners in love with each other. Incest between family members is usually not the norm thus NTR wouldn't apply. Unless they're not really related (not sure whether or not that's the case here)
That being said, I see no point in playing a game where the stakes are so low that every character falls head over heels for the player. The characters should have life outside of your own little bubble and sphere of influence and not just wait for the white knight to show up at their doorstep. That makes them look more like actual people I would say. Otherwise it would turn into a kinetic novel where the protagonist can do no wrong and is always the centre of attention (harem).

 

[mommysboiii]

I've said this before but:
I too have complained from time to time about Ocean's development choices. That said, I've come to recognize that we are sharing HIS development process. When he started this VN (which I much prefer over SG), he was utterly inexperienced in the tools and process used to produce a VN. Well, he learned a lot quite quickly, and at the same time for reasons at least somewhat beyond his control picked up the/his second VN when the original developer walked away. That VN proved much more popular that this one, but more to the point Ocean continued to explore tools and processes and to advance his skills both technically and as a writer.

For the record, I'm older than dirt, almost certainly one of the oldest folks in this thread. I have no expectation that either of Ocean's current VNs will be completed in my life time. However, I think that at some point Ocean may decide that he's learned all he can from developing the two VNs in question and will pause them to start his next one. Just maybe, he'll finish that one before I'm dust in the wind.

Patrons don't support a VN/game. They support a person. In this case they find Ocean worthy of support. Sure they may hope for the completion of one or the other of his current VNs, but the reality is they're supporting his development as an artist. No more and no less.

He does produce some truly fucking amazing stuff. So rather than winding each other up about the impossibility of these VNs completing, I suggest you just enjoy the ride.

dont worry borther you are legend if this game really takes 20 or 30 years i will name my MC UncleFredo and will continue your legacy

 

[Efe Can]

is game still alive ?

 

[Larry2000]

I mean there's love and respect between family members and then there's the deep bond between two partners in love with each other. Incest between family members is usually not the norm thus NTR wouldn't apply. Unless they're not really related (not sure whether or not that's the case here)
That being said, I see no point in playing a game where the stakes are so low that every character falls head over heels for the player. The characters should have life outside of your own little bubble and sphere of influence and not just wait for the white knight to show up at their doorstep. That makes them look more like actual people I would say. Otherwise it would turn into a kinetic novel where the protagonist can do no wrong and is always the centre of attention (harem).

What's the point? I'm not saying there shouldn't be any consequences, but the fact that you insinuated, however lightly, that a lack of EN TEE ARGH in a game like this is an absence of interest. That's like saying what's the point of children movies if there isn't any murder. Welp, maybe it's not the genre, maybe the director doesn't want a lot of murder in their rated G/PG movie. I don't know, i'm not a movie director, but I will say that EN TEE ARGH is a consequence, but it's far from the only one. There's probably, i don't know, an infinite amount of things that raise the stakes. Just saying.

As you said though, from my understanding family members in this game, at least from what I saw in the first version, were pretty much head over heels in love with MC. In different ways. Younger sister was secretly in love with him, older/twin? sister had a thing with him in the past and Mom only really responds to him even in her muted/messed up state. I was merely pointing out that EN TEE ARGH it didn't fit the theme in my opinion.

 

[slightchance]

What's the point? I'm not saying there shouldn't be any consequences, but the fact that you insinuated, however lightly, that a lack of EN TEE ARGH in a game like this is an absence of interest.

I say it's difficult to label it as NTR when the love interest is one of the own family members. Katie should be allowed to see someone else and love the MC (like a brother) without having the urge to have sex with the MC and vice versa, especially if you show no interest in her beyond brotherly feelings. If they end up fucking each other and someone else comes along who drives Katie away from the MC then sure, call it NTR if you will.

 

[mommysboiii]

What's the point? I'm not saying there shouldn't be any consequences, but the fact that you insinuated, however lightly, that a lack of EN TEE ARGH in a game like this is an absence of interest. That's like saying what's the point of children movies if there isn't any murder. Welp, maybe it's not the genre, maybe the director doesn't want a lot of murder in their rated G/PG movie. I don't know, i'm not a movie director, but I will say that EN TEE ARGH is a consequence, but it's far from the only one. There's probably, i don't know, an infinite amount of things that raise the stakes. Just saying.

As you said though, from my understanding family members in this game, at least from what I saw in the first version, were pretty much head over heels in love with MC. In different ways. Younger sister was secretly in love with him, older/twin? sister had a thing with him in the past and Mom only really responds to him even in her muted/messed up state. I was merely pointing out that EN TEE ARGH it didn't fit the theme in my opinion.

I think ntr is very important if you want to have a realistic gameworld and a good story. I think as a writer you will 100% run into problems if you decide against it I mean lets look at it completly objective and logical if you decide against it there are a lot of thinks that you cant do lets imagin a college frat party for example what will you do ? all people are women or how will you handel it? if you want to make you gamewolrd more believable and have older cheracters that are married(or boyfriends in generell) you cant do that because maybe someone has a milf fetish and is jealouse what will you do if you have more open minded/slutier women(there can be so much deep story progression if you fall in love with a women like that ) they only act with MC this way and constantly break their own cheracter? You have so much potential with male cheracters friends that will betrey you or friend that will become enemys or enemys/rival which you bond with an become friends you can have game of thones like intrigues and so on... their are so many possiblities and the game world is so much more alive after playing our red string again last week I think the game world feels much more alive than other VN.

I am not talking about ntr as the main story focuse with ridicules plots/ or as a way to punish the player and where the story is evolved around that I talk more about to use ntr as a story opportunity for more realistic cheracters,jealouse,intrigues friendsship and much more use it to make the world feel more alive sadly there are not many (almost zero ) that use it this way and I think thats a wasted opportunity for people that hate it because they get a more believable world where its not the story focuse and people that like it will have a deeper bonding/feelings with the cheracters which leads into better/more meaningful ntr scenes.

 

[Deleted member 4654353]

I think ntr is very important if you want to have a realistic gameworld and a good story.

A character being cucked doesn't sound like a relevant element.

 

[Euron13]

The realism argument doesn’t hold much water to me, because we’re still talking about an MC whom can successfully pursue every woman in his family. A certain suspension of disbelief is required.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

I think ntr is very important if you want to have a realistic gameworld and a good story. I think as a writer you will 100% run into problems if you decide against it I mean lets look at it completly objective and logical if you decide against it there are a lot of thinks that you cant do lets imagin a college frat party for example what will you do ? all people are women or how will you handel it? if you want to make you gamewolrd more believable and have older cheracters that are married(or boyfriends in generell) you cant do that because maybe someone has a milf fetish and is jealouse what will you do if you have more open minded/slutier women(there can be so much deep story progression if you fall in love with a women like that ) they only act with MC this way and constantly break their own cheracter? You have so much potential with male cheracters friends that will betrey you or friend that will become enemys or enemys/rival which you bond with an become friends you can have game of thones like intrigues and so on... their are so many possiblities and the game world is so much more alive after playing our red string again last week I think the game world feels much more alive than other VN.

I am not talking about ntr as the main story focuse with ridicules plots/ or as a way to punish the player and where the story is evolved around that I talk more about to use ntr as a story opportunity for more realistic cheracters,jealouse,intrigues friendsship and much more use it to make the world feel more alive sadly there are not many (almost zero ) that use it this way and I think thats a wasted opportunity for people that hate it because they get a more believable world where its not the story focuse and people that like it will have a deeper bonding/feelings with the cheracters which leads into better/more meaningful ntr scenes.

all I know is I don't want anyone touching the woman i love but me not even another woman

that would kill me

but if I'm not interested in a girl or character in a romantic way

i have no problem with her finding love with someone else

and it may be unrealistic but that would kill me if anybody else touch her

 

[sorco2003]

all I know is I don't want anyone touching the woman i love but me not even another woman

that would kill me

but if I'm not interested in a girl or character in a romantic way

i have no problem with her finding love with someone else

and it may be unrealistic but that would kill me if anybody else touch her

Within the game, does it count as someone touching your interest that there is a route with ntr? even if you don't see it or choose it?
I'm genuinely curious, because I've abandoned games not because of ntr per se, but because certain routes were either too morbid or too stupid...

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

Within the game, does it count as someone touching your interest that there is a route with ntr? even if you don't see it or choose it?
I'm genuinely curious, because I've abandoned games not because of ntr per se, but because certain routes were either too morbid or too stupid...

yes different people have a different points of view and that's fine but for me, if I'm with a girl I don't want anyone touching her but me

and another thing if I'm in a romantic relationship with a girl why would she be sexual with other people to Begin with

however, there is one exception if we are talking about a past boyfriend or girlfriend

I mean I'm not one of those guys that care if she's a virgin or not

I do not care if she had past relationships before me

it is in the past and I am her future and that's all that matters

and we love each other now

 

[mommysboiii]

all I know is I don't want anyone touching the woman i love but me not even another woman

that would kill me

but if I'm not interested in a girl or character in a romantic way

i have no problem with her finding love with someone else

and it may be unrealistic but that would kill me if anybody else touch her

This is the best part my perverted brother its like a rollercoaster(relationships feel more meaningful,jealouse depends on the cheracter and so on) but think about this way a creative mind like ocean(so many opputunitys storywise that he would otherwise not have ) could us it to make a more realistic world/better story.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

This is the best part my perverted brother its like a rollercoaster(relationships feel more meaningful,jealouse depends on the cheracter and so on) but think about this way a creative mind like ocean(so many opputunitys storywise that he would otherwise not have ) could us it to make a more realistic world/better story.

excellent point my dear beloved brother


but allow me to make a counter argument

View attachment final_62a3d96d93814900e9798a80_558823.mp4
















you would be okay with someone kissing Bella holding Bella
and Leia

no-one touches the woman I love
no-one

 

[UncleFredo]

all I know is I don't want anyone touching the woman i love but me not even another woman

that would kill me

but if I'm not interested in a girl or character in a romantic way

i have no problem with her finding love with someone else

and it may be unrealistic but that would kill me if anybody else touch her

So Vidal, my brother, what if you loved two women equally, passionately, and without reservation and they loved you and each other in kind. How do you think you'd feel if the three of you were together and sometimes you'd be with one or the other or they'd be together as a twosome?

 

[Manuya]

to people discussing NTR above
warning! spoilers ahead

the premise of the story that i got from chapter 1
first of all Leia is the star of the show imo & the cinematic cutscene before the phone call pretty much illustrates that, she has an obsessive personality & most of her conversation with MC after he arrived home is taking him on a guilt trip about the past during which she said "how dare she takes what's mine" referring to MC when discussing the mysterious incident referring to Monica the police officer that is a part of the investigation which she appears to be an ex-girlfriend of MC's during high school which Leia stole you from her.
it's seems that there will be a power play between MC & Leia and how there will be one without her attempting to drive players who hates NTR crazy by teasing MC with other guys especially after finally coming back home all these years with a girlfriend "was it necessary to bring her" "she should never leave you out of her sight for even a second" which will be more in line with reality than having your typical adult VN with no stakes at all

Helen is very much emotionally connected to MC & i think she's one of the biggest reasons that MC had to leave his home so i think your competition is maybe non existent or minimal to Dylan which they're already facing problems in their relationship & maybe a secret lover

i don't know anything about Leia's younger sister they mentioned her once (forgot her name)

as for Miru your actions i think will set the pace

for people that don't like NTR i think you can disable it at the beginning but for more somewhat realistic believable story you can't expect to have every women in MC's life without consequences & for all of them to be content with it

 

[sorco2003]

to people discussing NTR above
warning! spoilers ahead

the premise of the story that i got from chapter 1
first of all Leia is the star of the show imo & the cinematic cutscene before the phone call pretty much illustrates that, she has an obsessive personality & most of her conversation with MC after he arrived home is taking him on a guilt trip about the past during which she said "how dare she takes what's mine" referring to MC when discussing the mysterious incident referring to Monica the police officer that is a part of the investigation which she appears to be an ex-girlfriend of MC's during high school which Leia stole you from her.
it's seems that there will be a power play between MC & Leia and how there will be one without her attempting to drive players who hates NTR crazy by teasing MC with other guys especially after finally coming back home all these years with a girlfriend "was it necessary to bring her" "she should never leave you out of her sight for even a second" which will be more in line with reality than having your typical adult VN with no stakes at all

Helen is very much emotionally connected to MC & i think she's one of the biggest reasons that MC had to leave his home so i think your competition is maybe non existent or minimal to Dylan which they're already facing problems in their relationship & maybe a secret lover

i don't know anything about Leia's younger sister they mentioned her once (forgot her name)

as for Miru your actions i think will set the pace

for people that don't like NTR i think you can disable it at the beginning but for more somewhat realistic believable story you can't expect to have every women in MC's life without consequences & for all of them to be content with it

First of all: did you play the original version?
Most of the discussion you see is about trying to elucidate how it would be implemented, we know there will be ntr, it's the basis of WIAB, we know there is no harem, but we also know there are possible combinations...
The rest of the conversation is just to know how far you/we are willing to go... as a game between us.

 

[Manuya]

First of all: did you play the original version?
Most of the discussion you see is about trying to elucidate how it would be implemented, we know there will be ntr, it's the basis of WIAB, we know there is no harem, but we also know there are possible combinations...
The rest of the conversation is just to know how far you/we are willing to go... as a game between us.

no i didn't play the original version nor intend to, the renders & production quality on this version are chef kiss & i found the premise of the story to be intriguing enough even with the slow development cycle to stick around for awhile

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

So Vidal, my brother, what if you loved two women equally, passionately, and without reservation and they loved you and each other in kind. How do you think you'd feel if the three of you were together and sometimes you'd be with one or the other or they'd be together as a twosome?

I am surprised you would even ask me that my brother I would rather

cut my dick off

I don't do open relationships or threesomes

I'm a one-woman kind of man

I would probably break up with them and find a girl that doesn't want to share me with anyone

and in my opinion, if i can't choose between the two of them.

that means I didn't really love either of them

because whenever I Fall In Love

I don't even acknowledge the existence of other females

 

[UncleFredo]

I am surprised you would even ask me that my brother I would rather

cut my dick off

I don't do open relationships or threesomes

I'm a one-woman kind of man

I would probably break up with them and find a girl that doesn't want to share me with anyone

and in my opinion, if i can't choose between the two of them.

that means I didn't really love either of them

because whenever I Fall In Love

I don't even acknowledge the existence of other females

Apologies brother. You're a true romantic.

 

[Larry2000]

I think ntr is very important if you want to have a realistic gameworld and a good story. I think as a writer you will 100% run into problems if you decide against it I mean lets look at it completly objective and logical if you decide against it there are a lot of thinks that you cant do lets imagin a college frat party for example what will you do ? all people are women or how will you handel it? if you want to make you gamewolrd more believable and have older cheracters that are married(or boyfriends in generell) you cant do that because maybe someone has a milf fetish and is jealouse what will you do if you have more open minded/slutier women(there can be so much deep story progression if you fall in love with a women like that ) they only act with MC this way and constantly break their own cheracter? You have so much potential with male cheracters friends that will betrey you or friend that will become enemys or enemys/rival which you bond with an become friends you can have game of thones like intrigues and so on... their are so many possiblities and the game world is so much more alive after playing our red string again last week I think the game world feels much more alive than other VN.

I am not talking about ntr as the main story focuse with ridicules plots/ or as a way to punish the player and where the story is evolved around that I talk more about to use ntr as a story opportunity for more realistic cheracters,jealouse,intrigues friendsship and much more use it to make the world feel more alive sadly there are not many (almost zero ) that use it this way and I think thats a wasted opportunity for people that hate it because they get a more believable world where its not the story focuse and people that like it will have a deeper bonding/feelings with the cheracters which leads into better/more meaningful ntr scenes.

We can agree to disagree on many things then. On that point, maybe you put a lot of stock on believability. I put a lot of stock on my comfort. If there is something that causes me discomfort in a physical sense, I avoid it. NTR does that for me. Maybe not to you, or you don't understand it, but it's true.

One point about friends "betraying you", who said it's not a possbility in ANY VN? The only restriction I think "harem/vanilla fans" would ever restrict is that that same Male friend doesn't try to steal your girls. That's it. He could extort the MC for all his worth. He could plant a bomb in the MC that detonates whenever he is near his love interests to drive them away. He could drown his puppy in front of him. He could disfigure his face, etc. The Best friend could kill any of the characters as long as he doesn't touch the LI's and that's it. The only restriction.

Anyway, I'll just talk about the game cause we've gone a bit off topic. I really like the potential of this game and I would like things to go my way, but if they don't, that's cool. I won't be berating the Dev for his decisions, but I will express constructive feedback. I think anyone could have told the Oceanlab that he was going a little too over his head on his first attempt at this story. Especially the prison scene that went on not only too long, but also was almost completely inconsequential. Finally, in my opinion, giving Miru so many opportunities to cheat did the opposite of making a believable character when rejecting her for sex once would cause her into the arms of another man and when you choose to NOT take EN TEE ARGH paths, it still asks you EVERY time if you want to cheat instead of phasing out the option. That's why I think the new Miru makes more sense.

Regardless, have a nice day