VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[Kassandara]

shorter in what way do you mean? because the chapter count is the same.
I don't remember Ocean changing that after the rework, both would be around 30 chapters.

Just a few days ago

 

[sorco2003]

Just a few days ago

Thank you! As always, one learns about important WIAB things from SG's posts.
And finally something interesting to discuss.
Much more depth in the story with fewer chapters or did the old way of counting get too long?
It would be interesting to know what is the overall plan for WIAB.

 

[yossa999]

I should not say about SG in this thread but i don't know how many chapter WiAB have but SG has total 30 chp after chp5 release there will be 25 remaining.... 5yrs gone for "remastered".... 1 update per year..... 25 chp left.... do your own math

Bro, I honestly don't understand how the fact that it takes years for a single developer to develop two high quality games at the same time is relevant to my post. So if that's you asking me of my opinion on this topic, then I also want updates for both games to come out more often, with the current high quality of games or better. I also want more content with Bella, Nami, Leia, Katie, Sasha, Zara, Miru. And don't forget about Nadia and her bananas, Gina, Zoey, Mila, Vic, Nia, Sonia, Scarlett, Amber, Maja. Yeah, and love me some Elsa, Monica, Kate, Miriam and Nora twins, Dani from the gas station and that girl with the mischievous smirk from the locker room. This will do for the beginning.

But don't you think that sounds a little childish? "Mom, I want it now, gimme." Do you really think these complaints are going to get you somewhere, or is there some rationale for these complains other than frustration that you can't get what you want. Five years is a long spread of time, that's for sure. But do you think Ocean's skills were at the same level then as they are now? He didn't spend time learning things and improving skills, it's free, he was just born with it? He had the same hardware then? You don't take into account the progress he's made over the past year? I don't even mention his personal issues, which has been overcoming these years and spoke quite openly about it. We, professional critics, certainly know that this is just a weak excuse that lazy developers throw at us when they are lazy, right?

And now let's compare with the most successful project of all times. I bought BaDIK season 1 on Steam, in the mid of 2020. Now it's the mid of 2023. Six chapters have been released, 5-9 and interlude. Two updates a year, just like Ocean do, if you count both WIAB and SG as one. You would say that the last BaDIK chapters are three times bigger than the average SG or WIAB chapter if we compare the number of static renders. And BaDIK is completely beats SG+WIAB in the animation department, I mean quantity, not the quality. Well, that's true, but then again, we're comparing to the AVN World Champion. And if you dig into the first chapters of BaDIK (1-4), you'll find they are almost equal to the average chapter of SG in terms of the number of static renders. And now I'm only saying my opinion, but the artistic quality of a picture in Ocean's games is much higher.

The only thing that really hindered the advance of the plot for both games was the rework. But what were the options, to leave the old graphics as it is? For those who see the games for the first time, this is ridiculous and spoils the impression. Or maybe just finish and release them where they were before the graphical enhancement was possible, and then start a perfect "Summer's Really Gone" from now on at the current level of quality? Dunno, I like what we have now even if it took the time. Those who will first see the games on Steam won't even know about the rework.

And at the end of the post about the main thing I can’t see the future, but if everything remains the way it is now, then I don’t believe in 30 chapters in a reasonable time either. But that's okay for me. To me, this is not a movie they've been trying to finish for years. For me, this is a series, I watch them episode after episode, season after season, as they appear. I don't expect the final credits in the near future and don't assume it will. As long as he releases two chapters a year with a decent amount of static renders and content, I'm fine with that, it's average for most of my favorite VNs. But I hope for the best, Ocean has said a few times that he is thinking of hiring assistants. Maybe it will happen, who knows.

 

[Kassandara]

Thank you! As always, one learns about important WIAB things from SG's posts.
And finally something interesting to discuss.
Much more depth in the story with fewer chapters or did the old way of counting get too long?
It would be interesting to know what is the overall plan for WIAB.

Indeed, it's kinda odd that SG is so much more popular than WiAB (especially in Discord).

I have no clue what happened about the chapter count. I'm just guessing Ocean is taking a different approach to the story.

 

[Vopeco]

Indeed, it's kinda odd that SG is so much more popular than WiAB (especially in Discord).

I have no clue what happened about the chapter count. I'm just guessing Ocean is taking a different approach to the story.

Just a guess but it could be the NTR. That alone will alienate a huge amount of potential audience since it's pretty much a small minority of guys that like that kinda stuff.

 

[LonerPrime]

Just a guess but it could be the NTR.

A bit odd though. As far as I can see in the remake, NTR seems to be one small part of a pretty diverse game. And it's even optional. How does that make WIAB less popular than SG? Was NTR a major cornerstone in the original WIAB? I seriously need to pick up SG to figure out what the hype is all about.

 

[08Hanbo]

It's not sad at all about this music "problem". It's actually very funny. It blows my mind how much money he spends on this music when actually it's free. OR, just like he said, use copyright-free "crap" music. WHO CARES in the end?
Ocean is not a musician, we are not musicians and the game is not about music at all.
He should use this money to buy more VRAM or whatever is important to render faster.

Exactly, someone needs to tell him that if he spend the music money on hardware that will help him put updates out faster, he will get more people to buy/subscribe and more profits, instead of 2 updates per year for each game, he could do 1 every 2 months or so with good hardware bought using the music's budget. and when his games are established, he can license music however he wants. Such a waste of time and money now licensing music.

The concept is correct. It's definitely easier to get more patrons by taking the money from the music and spending it on rendering equipment to make the renders faster and provide quicker updates, and it will give Ocean more money to buy music. Obviously Ocean got the order of spending money wrong, but I've been used to him doing that for a long time

 

[08Hanbo]

A bit odd though. As far as I can see in the remake, NTR seems to be one small part of a pretty diverse game. And it's even optional. How does that make WIAB less popular than SG? Was NTR a major cornerstone in the original WIAB? I seriously need to pick up SG to figure out what the hype is all about.

I don't know, but when the development speed of the two games is much different, it is obvious that the faster development speed of the game must be more popular

 

[Kassandara]

A bit odd though. As far as I can see in the remake, NTR seems to be one small part of a pretty diverse game. And it's even optional. How does that make WIAB less popular than SG? Was NTR a major cornerstone in the original WIAB? I seriously need to pick up SG to figure out what the hype is all about.

I think it's simply that people see the NTR tag and instantly ignore the game. I do that with sandbox games

 

[holaje12]

A bit odd though. As far as I can see in the remake, NTR seems to be one small part of a pretty diverse game. And it's even optional. How does that make WIAB less popular than SG? Was NTR a major cornerstone in the original WIAB? I seriously need to pick up SG to figure out what the hype is all about.

Ntr was more prevalent in the earlier version but, even if it is a small part, some people won't even care to find out. As long as the tag is there they'll just bounce and look for something else. There's too many games nowadays, with so many options people can afford to just skip some games that have those tags you don't like.

 

[The D0n]

Ntr was more prevalent in the earlier version but, even if it is a small part, some people won't even care to find out. As long as the tag is there they'll just bounce and look for something else. There's too many games nowadays, with so many options people can afford to just skip some games that have those tags you don't like.

The issue isn't just the tag for me but after a few years here you do notice that certain kinks will drive the story in a certain way, even if optional it effects how the other kinks play out narratively.

The tone of a interaction can seem off as regardless of player input the connections sometimes hold elements of the other kink that can be a complete turnoff. I just ran into this with the title "The Misfits", no matter how much you don't play the NTR route it is just shoved in there regardless. Immediate uninstall and blacklist, no sale.

Unless the Developer does some serious re-writing they should pick a kink and stick to it, to many cooks spoil the broth as it were.

 

[mommysboiii]

Just a guess but it could be the NTR. That alone will alienate a huge amount of potential audience since it's pretty much a small minority of guys that like that kinda stuff.

I dont think that this is the case their are so many games that are full corruption or ntr with big patreons and even lot of pornos like gangbang ,bukkake and all that kinky stuff its probably a mix of alot of things but I dont think that ntr = bad or ntr = not over 100 patreons rule exist

and you can make even the argument that the competition is bigger between women pokemon/collecting games because they exist the most.

 

[The D0n]

I dont think that this is the case their are so many games that are full corruption or ntr with big patreons and even lot of pornos like gangbang ,bukkake and all that kinky stuff its probably a mix of alot of things but I dont think that ntr = bad or ntr = not over 100 patreons rule exist

and you can make even the argument that the competition is bigger between women pokemon/collecting games because they exist the most.

They tend to be different audiences. I like BAD and hate Fetish Locater.... both in the same genre but different kinks. Really it can be done with good writing but most seem to badly band aid the issues imo.

 

[holaje12]

I dont think that this is the case their are so many games that are full corruption or ntr with big patreons and even lot of pornos like gangbang ,bukkake and all that kinky stuff its probably a mix of alot of things but I dont think that ntr = bad or ntr = not over 100 patreons rule exist

No one said ntr = bad. But it is a fact that it is a very divisive and niche tag so much that it needs to be made OPTIONAL if you even want a chance for your game to succeed. So good games with ntr will get good support like WIAB which has 458 patreons, which is pretty good. But compare it with SG, by the same dev, and it has 1400 which is 3 times more.
The same happens with another dev: Inceton. He has a ntr patreon page "IncetonNtr" which has 379 patreons. Whereas his "Non ntr" patreon page "IncetonGames" has 2362 patreons which is 6 times more (and it used to have more than 4000 patreons before he added some small NTR to his supposedly "non ntr game", dude just loves ntr lol).
So there you can clearly see two devs that offer two options: one ntr and one "non ntr" option. They are the same person so the render quality, animations, writing, etc are all the same, yet the results are very far apart.
Then you see that the devs making the most cash, like BaDIK or NLT, tend to avoid those divise tags to try to reach a larger audience. But, you can still make good money with ntr/optional ntr games, just not as much.

and you can make even the argument that the competition is bigger between women pokemon/collecting games because they exist the most.

Yes, ntr games are a minority so supposedly they should be earning more, because they have less competition. But that doesn't really happen.

 

[mommysboiii]

But it is a fact that it is a very divisive and niche tag so much that it needs to be made OPTIONAL if you even want a chance for your game to succeed

this is not even true lol there are ntr games and mangas that make a lot of money even huge porno sites with all their gangbang and bbc bukkake, bbc cheating .... and all that things its not niche at all

it all comes down to luck and writting so maybe if the story is good and ocean get lucky on steam wiab will get bigger if the story and cheracters will be interesting

 

[mommysboiii]

WIAB which has 458 patreons, which is pretty good. But compare it with SG, by the same dev, and it has 1400 which is 3 times more.
The same happens with another dev: Inceton. He has a ntr patreon page "IncetonNtr" which has 379 patreons. Whereas his "Non ntr" patreon page "IncetonGames" has 2362 patreons which is 6 times more (and it used to have more than 4000 patreons before he

and?? this are solo example now I should mention all games that have ntr and make over 10.000 dollar a month?? or porno studios that make much money with the most kinkiest stuff ????

 

[holaje12]

and?? this are solo example now I should mention all games that have ntr and make over 10.000 dollar a month?? or porno studios that make much money with the most kinkiest stuff ????

this is not even true lol there are ntr games and mangas that make a lot of money even huge porno sites with all their gangbang and bbc bukkake, bbc cheating .... and all that things its not niche at all

it all comes down to luck and writting so maybe if the story is good and ocean get lucky on steam wiab will get bigger if the story and cheracters will be interesting

Porno studios making irl porn are totallly different than AVN. No point in bringing them up here. People just watch it to jack off and nothing else, thats why the focus is in the perverted actions. Theres no story, no characters, nothing, just the action.
You can only compare it to devs like Jackerman which does short 3D animations with no story, just straight to sex.

A game without ntr will make a lot more than a ntr one with the same level of renders/writing/animation, etc. Thats what the two examples I brought up show. If you dont want to believe it then thats ok, but thats the way it is. Thats why you see devs fight tooth and nails when their games get tagged with ntr.
I remember the dev of Seducing the devil crying about getting the tag, and he still claims his game doesnt have ntr even though it has the tag. The same happened with Sunshine Love which recently got the tag and you got a MrDott's helper crying in the thread saying how it was unfair and it isnt really ntr and shit. Many other cases where devs "accidentally" added a scene which got them the tag, and went back and changed it just to get rid of it.
You dont do all that if the tag isnt bad for business.

 

[mommysboiii]

Porno studios making irl porn are totallly different than AVN.

its not your point was that ntr is always less sucessfull because people complelty avoid it and dosent have much fans (maybe because people compare their seiz too other people or are insecure or whatever reason) but than this would also happen in porn that people would avoid it also for the same reasons.

A game without ntr will make a lot more than a ntr one with the same level of renders/writing/animation, etc.

no this is just your claim with solo examples

People just watch it to jack off and nothing else, thats why the focus is in the perverted actions and nothing else.

if a big majority of people feel insecure in a VN over pixels they would also feel insecure about pixels in porn and the big budget high qualtie stuff also has a little bit of story stuff IF WE TALK ABOUT BIG BUDGET super high qualitie cameras

You dont do all that if the tag isnt bad for business.

again you have solo examples I could do the same know and mention all sucessfull mangas with ntr tag and pornos and Visual novels that have ntr tag and are doing very creat but I will not do it because this examples with good and bad are on both sides and than we can talk back and forth forever

 

[mommysboiii]

to be clear I think both of ocean games have good cheracters, story, writting but I just think SG got more lucky and was more conistent from the start WIAB lost a lot of momentum with the rework but we will see how good the story will be in the future but I think that there is a high liklyhood that it will be the more itneresting story because ocean has more playground and writting possiblities with WIAB compared to SG so we will see but WIAB has definetly a higher possiblitie to be more interesting and have a way higher tension curve if done right

in SG he will get problems even if a men breath in the same direction as one of the love interest which will make the story possibilities way less itneresting and it will be super difficult story wise so WIAB definitly has a HUGE advantage

 

[holaje12]

its not your point was that ntr is always less sucessfull because people complelty avoid it and dosent have much fans (maybe because people compare their seiz too other people or are insecure or whatever reason) but than this would also happen in porn that people would avoid it also for the same reasons.

Why would people avoid gangbang or bbc stuff. You are not making any sense. Those kinks are not disliked by anyone. If you want to make a valid comparison then talk about the extreme cuck porn where the cuck eats the cum of the bull out of her wifes pussy. That is the porn that most might want to avoid, or maybe some scat or pegging. Gangbang,bbc, bukkake thats not "extreme" porn or niche, thats everyday stuff. You are comparing apples and oranges

no this is just your claim with solo examples

No, thats my claim with two examples of devs offering both options having two different outcomes. You can look for even more examples. Like the dev for Golden Boy that has recently removed all ntr from his game in order to try and gain more support. But no matter how many examples I brought up you will keep in denial so, it is pointless.

if a big majority of people feel insecure in a VN over pixels they would also feel insecure about pixels in porn and the big budget high qualtie stuff also has a little bit of story stuff IF WE TALK ABOUT BUG BUDGET

No, dude. Do I really have to explain the difference between an avn and real porn?
Even if you say theres insecure people, they only get insecure because they self insert in the MC. And take decisions and affect the story. That only happens in avn. High quality and BIG BUDGET porn do not have a story lol. The usual: "Help step-bro, I got stuck in the washing machine" does not qualify as story lmaoo. Or making a parody porn about the pirates of the caribbean does not qualify as a story lmaoo, why are we even discussing this??

again you have solo examples I could do the same know and mention all sucessfull mangas with ntr tag and pornos and Visual novels that have ntr tag and are doing very creat but I will not do it because this examples with good and bad are on both sides.

I didnt say ntr games couldnt do well, I said they could. But never as good as non ntr games.
Anyway, too much spam. So I'll stop here.