- Mar 13, 2021
- 4,681
- 8,157
Fuck Yes. Why do you want her to be with a serial cheater and a slacker? do you hate her?
- Thread starter GIL3D
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- Apr 30, 2017
- 4,527
- 19,754
- May 20, 2021
- 591
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There's literally no better gift than a cute, busty blonde on a one-bar prison.
- Mar 13, 2021
- 4,681
- 8,157
Well, he/she/it/them is a true degenerate, after all.There's a few of you. Like True_Degenerate.
So aparently my brain wont let met stop thinking about this game unless i writte an essay about it, so you win fucked up mind of mine. i will write briefly about my experience playing this vn and then detail my feelings about the characters wich are the meat and potatoes of this.
As someone that has no patience after being burned by crappy porn games (especially AVNs) i needed to see the goods to be sure this was gonna scratch my itch or blue ball me with dissapointment. To the end i commited a heresy (probably) to any VN fan, i fastfowarded everything. I mean really skipped things, i saw everything withouth understanding anything. By the end i liked what i saw and decided to see some scenes in full, especifically Ellias interview and aftermath wich got me to notice that there was clearly something more here but puted pin on it and waited a couple of months before truly giving it a try.
A week or two ago, while i was making a purge of H-games i no longer play nor have the interest to play again, i thought " mmh that one VN with the hot goth and the cute piggtail girl.how was it called?" and after some digging in my disk i decided to finally give Pale Carnations a proper run.
I expected something good, something that i knew would be worth the time, what i did not expected is that i would be hooked so fast to the story and characters. Interestingly enought spoiling myself in my rushed (all skip) run fueled my curiosity for the story, because once it got me to care i became really interested in knowing how things lead up to the events that i remembered like for example how Hana goes from "fuck you" to "fuck me, hard"
Its gonna be easier to describe what i like while talking about the characters. To add context i dont like to play my Edwin as neither a saint or an asshole but somewhere in the middle. He does what he has to keep his bosses pleased but tries to help whenever is possible and tries to avoid Kathelyn temptations to indulge in his darker desires.
Obviously this is all my own reading and interpretation of what i experienced and there are things that i probably got wrong but im not gonna writte "in my opinion" every other setence.
Now for the two ladies that are responsible for me being here in the first place. While normally i would leave the best for last, i feel it makes more sense to talk about Hana first.
BUT before getting into the characters i want to remark something that i find very important for a pornagraphic game, build up and payoff. From doujinshi to manhwas, from rpgmakers to AVNs, the concept of build up is prevalent in this. But sometimes, especially when focusing on the story, some characters sex scenes are left for much later. Authors will often tease and blue ball their audience and there is nothing wrong with that as long payoff is proportional to the build up. If you spend 2 years teasing me with a character you better give something more substancial than what every other character got and dont you dare end the story inmidiately after.
Mina and Hana take time (also Veronica) to get to them, a lot of build up and some blue balling. The time taken is very well justified but the key is that the pay off is proportional to the build up. Hanas scene is simply godlike and Minas is not that far off.
Thats the way you deliver a story withouth forgetting the A in AVN.
Now back to the main course.
A piece that also deserves recognition is the soundtrack because i feel that without it Pale Carnations would be much less.
I already mentioned "Happy Boy End Theme" and "Happy Clappy" but there a couple more that come to mind.
Much like the previous two get me happy, "Thunder" and "Guiton Sketch" get me horny.
"Jazz Piano Bar" is really nice
Saying that i like "Hypnosis" "Landing" and ESPECIALLLY "Addict" wouldnt be correct, more like they scare the shit out of me because nothing good comes when those start playing.
I love love love LOOOOVE "A lost Map of A Heaven" wich i guess shouldnt come off as a surprise.
and "Your Big Rock Concert" might not be the best to get you in the mood, but totally fits the situation.
I really really really like this VN and i hope that, now that i wrote almost everything in my mind, i can finally think about anything else until the next update.
ps: honarable mention to
As someone that has no patience after being burned by crappy porn games (especially AVNs) i needed to see the goods to be sure this was gonna scratch my itch or blue ball me with dissapointment. To the end i commited a heresy (probably) to any VN fan, i fastfowarded everything. I mean really skipped things, i saw everything withouth understanding anything. By the end i liked what i saw and decided to see some scenes in full, especifically Ellias interview and aftermath wich got me to notice that there was clearly something more here but puted pin on it and waited a couple of months before truly giving it a try.
A week or two ago, while i was making a purge of H-games i no longer play nor have the interest to play again, i thought " mmh that one VN with the hot goth and the cute piggtail girl.how was it called?" and after some digging in my disk i decided to finally give Pale Carnations a proper run.
I expected something good, something that i knew would be worth the time, what i did not expected is that i would be hooked so fast to the story and characters. Interestingly enought spoiling myself in my rushed (all skip) run fueled my curiosity for the story, because once it got me to care i became really interested in knowing how things lead up to the events that i remembered like for example how Hana goes from "fuck you" to "fuck me, hard"
Its gonna be easier to describe what i like while talking about the characters. To add context i dont like to play my Edwin as neither a saint or an asshole but somewhere in the middle. He does what he has to keep his bosses pleased but tries to help whenever is possible and tries to avoid Kathelyn temptations to indulge in his darker desires.
Obviously this is all my own reading and interpretation of what i experienced and there are things that i probably got wrong but im not gonna writte "in my opinion" every other setence.
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Now for the two ladies that are responsible for me being here in the first place. While normally i would leave the best for last, i feel it makes more sense to talk about Hana first.
BUT before getting into the characters i want to remark something that i find very important for a pornagraphic game, build up and payoff. From doujinshi to manhwas, from rpgmakers to AVNs, the concept of build up is prevalent in this. But sometimes, especially when focusing on the story, some characters sex scenes are left for much later. Authors will often tease and blue ball their audience and there is nothing wrong with that as long payoff is proportional to the build up. If you spend 2 years teasing me with a character you better give something more substancial than what every other character got and dont you dare end the story inmidiately after.
Mina and Hana take time (also Veronica) to get to them, a lot of build up and some blue balling. The time taken is very well justified but the key is that the pay off is proportional to the build up. Hanas scene is simply godlike and Minas is not that far off.
Thats the way you deliver a story withouth forgetting the A in AVN.
Now back to the main course.
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I already mentioned "Happy Boy End Theme" and "Happy Clappy" but there a couple more that come to mind.
Much like the previous two get me happy, "Thunder" and "Guiton Sketch" get me horny.
"Jazz Piano Bar" is really nice
Saying that i like "Hypnosis" "Landing" and ESPECIALLLY "Addict" wouldnt be correct, more like they scare the shit out of me because nothing good comes when those start playing.
I love love love LOOOOVE "A lost Map of A Heaven" wich i guess shouldnt come off as a surprise.
and "Your Big Rock Concert" might not be the best to get you in the mood, but totally fits the situation.
I really really really like this VN and i hope that, now that i wrote almost everything in my mind, i can finally think about anything else until the next update.
ps: honarable mention to
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- Jan 5, 2020
- 12
- 58
I don't hate her, but to be perfectly honest i like her the least out of all the girls. She's just too perfect. To be fair Hana is too, but she's at least cool, not some lump of sugar waiting to give me diabeetus from over exposure to cuteness. I just think Ian can be redeemed and happy with her and we could get another birthday double date.
nah I do as well just not on my main save. But only if we get a way to keep them together and change Ian for the better. Cause without changing him it's just too toxic and she is better as friends with him and the MC. Cause while he is a pos at times, he also is a bro to the MC so hard to hate him 100% especially when everyone else at the club but Hanna is worst than him.
- Mar 13, 2021
- 4,681
- 8,157
She's NOT. That's her mask: if you start dating her you will discover her true self and her inner demons.
And Ian just doesn't love her. He doesn't even like her, too.
- Jan 5, 2020
- 12
- 58
The latter, agree to disagree. The former, i counted that in when i wrote what i wrote. I could divulge if you want to read it, but as it stands unless you ask me to i do not want to write an essay.
- Apr 16, 2017
- 1,513
- 3,057
I can't help but feel that Ian is really, REALLY mischaracterized...
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- May 20, 2021
- 591
- 2,035
To me, the question of whether MC should be in a relationship with Mina is a separate question from whether she should be with Ian. The Edwin x Mina question is dependent on the Ian x Mina question (unless we're talking about a poly relationship
), but whether we like Edwin with Mina or not doesn't change the fact that it doesn't seem like Ian and Mina are a good fit.Sure, Ian can be rehabilitated into a good man. He's got a lot of good traits and he's young enough to grow out of his bad habits. I don't think it's a short path to loving himself enough to not continue to be a womanizer or a relationship self-saboteur, especially in his current occupations. Mina's got her own issues with confidence and self-image, not to mention that her mother poorly modeled romantic relationships.
However long it would take for Ian to become "boyfriend material" and for Mina to figure out who she wants to be, I doubt the relationship is salvageable. Yea, they were a cute couple, but I didn't get the "true love" vibes from them. It takes more than being cute together to get over betrayal. They don't have a previously solid, long-term relationship that can help them pull through the tough times of rebuilding the trust. Even if the relationship can be put back together, is that kind of baggage going to make for a happy, healthy relationship? Is the relationship worth her effort to have to put their history out of mind and pretend that she's not constantly worried that he'll do the same thing again? Is Ian a strong enough man to humbly and calmly reassure her when she breaks down over her doubts about him?
Letting these two guide each other from pseudo-adulthood into true adulthood is a recipe for a breakup in three-and-a-half years with two very poisoned hearts. My cost-benefit analysis of the risks versus rewards of reestablishing the relationship puts the expected returns too low to justify the expenditure. They should cut their losses and become better people for their next relationships.
Clearly I'm biased, projecting my own real world experience onto TD's imaginings, but this is how I like to look at realistic plots like this. If the question is whether TD can put these two "back together" long enough so we can see another double date scene, sure it'd be completely believable. Plenty of people hurt each other, break up, get back together, then rinse and repeat for years, but I'm not sure that reading another version of a scene we've already witnessed is worth the disappointment I'd feel in watching the MC let his friends do that shit to each other. I think we all know that several of the plot lines in PC are zero-sum, so I'm looking for as many realistic happy endings as possible.
Only a few thing I would add onto this when it comes to Ian's character. After Mina broke up with him I couldn't but feel that's when he realized how much he did like or potentially love her. To me the break up is what probably will be what changes him for the better. As after there was a few sex scenes with him I couldn't help but feel he wasn't happy and didn't care as much to be a womanizer but still does it since he has no one anyone he cares about. I may be totally wrong but that's just my take / addition but I do agree with everything you said.To me, the question of whether MC should be in a relationship with Mina is a separate question from whether she should be with Ian. The Edwin x Mina question is dependent on the Ian x Mina question (unless we're talking about a poly relationship
Sure, Ian can be rehabilitated into a good man. He's got a lot of good traits and he's young enough to grow out of his bad habits. I don't think it's a short path to loving himself enough to not continue to be a womanizer or a relationship self-saboteur, especially in his current occupations. Mina's got her own issues with confidence and self-image, not to mention that her mother poorly modeled romantic relationships.
However long it would take for Ian to become "boyfriend material" and for Mina to figure out who she wants to be, I doubt the relationship is salvageable. Yea, they were a cute couple, but I didn't get the "true love" vibes from them. It takes more than being cute together to get over betrayal. They don't have a previously solid, long-term relationship that can help them pull through the tough times of rebuilding the trust. Even if the relationship can be put back together, is that kind of baggage going to make for a happy, healthy relationship? Is the relationship worth her effort to have to put their history out of mind and pretend that she's not constantly worried that he'll do the same thing again? Is Ian a strong enough man to humbly and calmly reassure her when she breaks down over her doubts about him?
Letting these two guide each other from pseudo-adulthood into true adulthood is a recipe for a breakup in three-and-a-half years with two very poisoned hearts. My cost-benefit analysis of the risks versus rewards of reestablishing the relationship puts the expected returns too low to justify the expenditure. They should cut their losses and become better people for their next relationships.
Clearly I'm biased, projecting my own real world experience onto TD's imaginings, but this is how I like to look at realistic plots like this. If the question is whether TD can put these two "back together" long enough so we can see another double date scene, sure it'd be completely believable. Plenty of people hurt each other, break up, get back together, then rinse and repeat for years, but I'm not sure that reading another version of a scene we've already witnessed is worth the disappointment I'd feel in watching the MC let his friends do that shit to each other. I think we all know that several of the plot lines in PC are zero-sum, so I'm looking for as many realistic happy endings as possible.
- Apr 16, 2017
- 1,513
- 3,057
Right here:
Trust takes years to build, seconds to break, and forever to repair
And Ian did so much damage to this, it's beyond fixing. You can trust a stranger faster than you can trust someone who stabbed you in the back. And Ian didn't do that to a friend, he did that to a woman he is supposed to love.
But look at everything I wrote earlier and Ian doesn't really know what love is. This just firmly cements that he gotta view his own self and come to a conclusion or be a more destructive man than Chuck to the women he hurts through his actions.
That's the crux of the argument.
Trust takes years to build, seconds to break, and forever to repair
And Ian did so much damage to this, it's beyond fixing. You can trust a stranger faster than you can trust someone who stabbed you in the back. And Ian didn't do that to a friend, he did that to a woman he is supposed to love.
But look at everything I wrote earlier and Ian doesn't really know what love is. This just firmly cements that he gotta view his own self and come to a conclusion or be a more destructive man than Chuck to the women he hurts through his actions.
- Jul 12, 2020
- 7,873
- 17,417
But surely then...on that hypothesis...he'd just not just use women for meaningless sex at all? There really isn't any self-restrospection in reality...he just an ass who thinks of himself. Surely if he realised what you think he does...he'd not have a woman over to use as an object for his own purposes.
I didn't mean he'd stop cold turkey right away but just I think it is what will get to slowly stop over time. Again that's just the impressions I got from a few scenes with him after the Mina break up and probably wrong.
- Nov 11, 2022
- 2,490
- 6,709
So far I haven't really seen that from him. It seems more like a
kinda situation for him.The only woman he has real feelings for seems to be Victoria as a surrogate mother and so far I haven't really noticed any change in his behavior towards women.
Maybe im miss remembering but I wrote that post I was thinking about the scene when he was on the phone with the MC at night on the balcony. From what I recall it was shortly after the break up and he was asking about her alot. That was the scene that gave me that impression the most.
- Nov 11, 2022
- 2,490
- 6,709
I don't know...some of his dialogue could almost be read as him being relieved that it is over for the sake of Mina.
- May 20, 2021
- 591
- 2,035
I think it's a bit of both. He can be regretful over losing Mina and happy for her that she's free of him. It shows he's not an unredeemable asswipe, aware that she's better off without him. While at the same time, he knows there could have been a different reality where he was a good boyfriend and they were happy together.