VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[SomboSteel]

The conversation no longer has to happen onscreen because of the interlude. Without the interlude the conversation would have happened because of the type of person Fuckface is, he'd have needed the answers, we now know the answers he gets so we don't need to see them. Yes, it would have been boring, which is part of the reason DPC created the interlude imo, he knew it would be boring and would take a big chunk of the playtime of the episode, so he got it out of the way as a standalone mini-episode while also testing out the import mechanics to make sure it was working properly.

idk about you, but i think DPC shouldnt focus on telling any stories that he KNOWS are boring. its his job as the writer to make it interesting, or to know when to cut stuff that is in fact irredeemably boring.

if there is no way DPC could make that information from the Interlude work as an interesting story that the players would actually care about, then he shouldnt have wasted time on it to begin with. unless im misunderstanding you, i feel like what you said is basically admitting that the Interlude is in fact a failure on DPC's part.

 

[anonnyscouse]

idk about you, but i think DPC shouldnt focus on telling any stories that he KNOWS are boring. its his job as the writer to make it interesting, or to know when to cut stuff that is in fact irredeemably boring.

if there is no way DPC could make that information from the Interlude work as an interesting story that the players would actually care about, then he shouldnt have wasted time on it to begin with. unless im misunderstanding you, i feel like what you said is basically admitting that the Interlude is in fact a failure on DPC's part.

The problem is the events of the interlude are required to bring Zoey back into the story, whether bringing Zoey back is a good or bad move depends on future episodes.

For me the interlude is a better way of telling Zoey's story to bring her back into the story than a longass conversation with Fuckface that would have taken up a huge chunk of ep 9 and been boring in that context. The interlude is far from the quality of the rest of BaD, but it's better as a standalone that can be skipped after one playthrough than a required conversation on each path in ep 9 that would have taken 10 mins to even ctrl through.

 

[DrSoong]

why? didn't he tell 5 stories anyway with each chapter before? (actually since the second season, the first one told essentially one)

the only difference before and after the eighth chapter is that now to see the 5 stories you have to do 5 games

It's a difference between tell one story about 5 different people and 5 stories. Yes, the stories have connecting points but there is way more to do with the differences. And thinking of DPC as a perfectionist he want to do it so that he is satisfied, not thinking of the waiting crowd (and not giving a fuck of all here not supporting him by being a patron).

At last we have to wait until he releases the new Ep, for me the delay is good, so i get my new computer before it's released.

 

[DrSoong]

Madame Rose is actually Lynette. We'll find that out in the diary later. This is insider information, trust me.

dalli_x, how did you manage to hack into Lostanddamneds account?

 

[felicemastronzo]

It's a difference between tell one story about 5 different people and 5 stories. Yes, the stories have connecting points but there is way more to do with the differences. And thinking of DPC as a perfectionist he want to do it so that he is satisfied, not thinking of the waiting crowd (and not giving a fuck of all here not supporting him by being a patron).

At last we have to wait until he releases the new Ep, for me the delay is good, so i get my new computer before it's released.

the next one will be identical to the past chapters, as if it were a "faithful" run

if Jill invites us to the recital we will still go, if Bella offers us a job we will still go, if Josy asks us to go to the gym we will be there etc. etc.
then there will be exclusive scenes, as there always have been, no more no less

otherwise DPC of months would have put us 30 (6x5) and not 8

 

[gamingdevil800]

The problem is the events of the interlude are required to bring Zoey back into the story, whether bringing Zoey back is a good or bad move depends on future episodes.

For me the interlude is a better way of telling Zoey's story to bring her back into the story than a longass conversation with Fuckface that would have taken up a huge chunk of ep 9 and been boring in that context. The interlude is far from the quality of the rest of BaD, but it's better as a standalone that can be skipped after one playthrough than a required conversation on each path in ep 9 that would have taken 10 mins to even ctrl through.

Firstly near enough every episode of BADIK has a flashback at the start of the episode that would've been where to place it.
Maybe he did need to do it this way though but did it need sex scenes, animations and multiple choice? It really didn't... It could've been condensed down without the bloat and would've had the same effect. I can't even remember everything that happened and have no interest in replaying it. All we needed to know was she went there, made some friends had a falling out with one and came back. Didn't need to see her mother (with her half dead looking character model) among other things. Could've been a 30 minute or 1 hour interlude and he wouldn't have needed to spend 4 months making it...

 

[Ilhares]

Everything we know about Fuckface says that he'd inquire further and not just leave it at that

Would he, though? He doesn't ask names, he often forgets to ask useful questions and storms out (he's a snowflake), and he sure as hell doesn't communicate clearly when he's supposed to be caring for people (re: Quinn/Maya, restaurant situation).

dalli_x, how did you manage to hack into Lostanddamneds account?

Lynette is dead, we know it isn't her. I've been saying for quite some time that it's Bianca's mother, and given some of the foolishness that DPC has put forward, this only stands up against superficial reason.

We fuck Sage. We fuck Sage's mother.
We fuck Maya. We fuck Maya's mother (Nora).
We fuck Jill. We intend to fuck Jill's mother (Amelia).
We'll fuck Bianca. .. Some weirdos will fuck Bianca's mother. And as is thematically appropriate, since you can probablyonly fuck Bianca if you're on the Jill path, there will be repurcussions. You'll pay for it.

Bella's pretty much in the clear, since her parents are dead.
Josy's mother seems unlikely to appear.

 

[ffive]

I swear people have spent more time whining about the interlude in this thread alone than DPC has making it.

 

[Ilhares]

I swear people have spent more time whining about the interlude in this thread alone than DPC has making it.

You'd almost think it was the Rise of Skywalker by how badly people have taken it. The main difference being that the interlude actually had a script.

 

[Silkymilk]

Update before end of week?

 

[Kassandara]

We fuck Maya. We fuck Maya's mother (Nora).

After this Derek would definitely fuck Neil

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

That's an opinion ungrounded in fact until the episode gets released and we can evaluate it.

As for whether other patrons are getting impatient, I'm not seeing anyone expressing any impatience, really. I don't spend much time reading comments on Patreon, so it's possible I'm not seeing them, but I expect the most common demonstration of impatience would be to discontinue being a patron, not leaving a complaint in the comments.

I mean, everyone here is free to express their opinions, of course. I understand impatience and am not insensitive to the argument that DPC is trying to ride this gravy train as long as possible. I think few people would act differently, but to some this may seem a form of "milking supporters." I played "Milfy City" and was as annoyed as everyone else when ICSTOR absconded, but I never contributed to his Patreon, so never posted any complaints or angry reactions. Why would I be angry? I'm not out anything. I'm disappointed that the game will (presumably) never be finished, but the time I spent on it was enjoyable.

So, when people who are not supporters complain about DPC, I find it ridiculous. Not only because they do not support the game financially, but because they are complaining based entirely on speculation.

Interestingly, I see such whining only on the F95 forum. Reddit fan page, (I don't like Reddit but I have to give them credit) there people are more restrained, I did not see there drama whining and shouting "why so long", "dev milking" and "blame the Interlude".
And judging by what I saw on Patreon, its subscribers respond adequately, the number of donators has been stable for several months within 11.5-13.5k subscribers. So there is no "collapse of subscribers". Only here there is such drama and all because he did not provide data on animations and suggested that he would have to do more animations. Just assumed.
There is a Kindergarten.

 

[Ilhares]

After this Derek would definitely fuck Neil

If you check the list in his room you'll see he's already crossed Neil's name off it, suggesting he has succeeded.

 

[allanl9020142]

I'll disagree in turn. Most of those plot points aren't particularly important. As Sheet420 said, they were added to justify the length of the Interlude. We didn't see Zoey gradually lose enthusiasm for surfing; she tried it once, sucked at it, and then we barely see her on a surfboard again. Zoey's artistic skills would have been better established via the MC's memories (in which case seeing them in action in the Interlude would at least have been a nice treat). Her strictly platonic friendship with Bret goes nowhere and Emma's jealousy comes straight out of left field. Even the big decision about how Zoey handles things with Emma feels like a questionable design choice: it's not like anyone would bat and eyelash if Zoey had a preset personality like all the other LIs.

The only thing the Interlude really *needed* to do was sell us on why Zoey left the MC and why she was returning - and IMHO it did a lousy job at those, too. She left because she was obsessed with a very shallow dream and she came back because she'd run out of money.

I care less about Zoey now than I did before I met her.



Going to have to disagree with this as well. DPC's cliffhangers are uneven at best. Episode 3 was great, but 4 felt underwhelming after the rushed resolution to the Maya/Josy crisis; was there any doubt we'd become a DIK? Episode 5 was effective as a kind of 'hitting rock bottom' moment, but I wouldn't call it a cliffhanger. Episode 6 definitely got our attention, but it was a bit frustrating seeing Maya's arc reset like that - especially if you weren't on her path. Episode 8 hit the reset button even harder, plus it ducked out of the consequences of the Crossroads AND had that moronic one-size-fits-all fuckstorm at the end. Really Episode 7 was the only ending I actually liked in Season 2, and the 'cliffhanger' was the weakest part (to the point Chad/Troy is barely even mentioned in Episode 8).

Frankly, the reason I'm so annoyed at the long production time for Episode 9 is because DPC botched the ending to Season 2 so badly. I want to be enthusiastic for the new season, but I have no idea what he's planning to do with it and I don't like the direction Episode 8 left us in because DPC was too obsessed with his dumb twists to sell me on what was supposedly a pivotal decision in the MC's life.

Same. I was disappointed with ep 8, its development time also took longer than previous episodes and it didn't really have all the extensive mini-games that some people say is the reason for the longer development times except for the very last round of the mansion rebuilding mini-game (which I actually enjoyed).

I liked the Interlude and Zoey as a character but I honestly don't give a single fuck about her as a potential LI.

About 7 months since the Interlude and 10 months since ep 8. Ep 9 might remedy why I felt Ep 8 was lacking or it might not. I won't know until I play it. If not, then we're looking at even longer development times in the future for what? Ep 9 has got me feeling impatient and antsy for several reasons and just not because I would like the newest episode.

(No one has to read the rest. I just ended up going on a rant.)
There's "perfectionism" and then there's "pedantry". If all the little things he's adding in as we speak just go unnoticed (not like we'll know exactly what but it seems like the large bulk of the story for ep 9 has been completed) then it's just meaningless. Unless that long-ass animation is mind blowing, I'm probably not going to even notice it until I think "Huh, this scene has been going on for a while now. Oh yea, this must be the thing he mentioned. Whatever." DPC does put a lot of detail into getting things right which has been great but he was doing that before the increasingly elongated dev times. IF ep 9 gives me the same "meh" feeling as ep 8 then I just don't see the point in even longer development times.

It's not a big deal. DPC will still be, in my eyes, the best VN creator/dev but I'm already looking past ep 9 into ep 10 and just thinking that if the wait time of one update per year isn't worth it and the Interlude wasn't necessary then my interest will gradually decline and I might just forget about it altogether.

I'd still most likely remember it at some point and go right back to Patreon but one of the reasons why I'm feeling antsy about ep 9 is that it feels like a "make or break" type of thing. The question I'm asking is "Will that huge investment of time go to waste"? "Is there actually some bigger plan in mind for the plot or is ep 8 what we should expect from now on?"

The most recent weekly update was demoralizing because I feel like I'd been trying to justify the long wait time.

• "Ep 8 was just wrapping things up to make paths less complicated. We'll get back to why BADIK felt so 'alive" starting in ep 9"
• "Oh, yea the Interlude was needed."
• "Well he has to create new minigames from scratch for this season because there's new classes and the mansion is done and I actually liked the mansion one"
• "This Halloween free roam is going to be HUGE and not underwhelming at all relative to the amount of time being spent on it"
• "Oh yea, he had to deal with 'this' or 'that', totally out of his control."
• "Nah, he just needs to finish this long animation and then we'll start seeing numbers/a finish line."

Then he goes and says "a few more weeks" to know how many animations are left? Not "a few more weeks" until they're all done or something to that effect? Like, nah bro it's cool. I'm gonna like it. We're all gonna like it. Just release the thing. We all appreciate your passion but I don't think most people are going to care about fucking in zero-g or something crazy technical about the animations when we've got to be alone with Zoey for half of the episode anyway.

I've been going back and forth on ranting but I just think I want it to be said. I'll behave now.

 

[ename144]

The conversation no longer has to happen onscreen because of the interlude. Without the interlude the conversation would have happened because of the type of person Fuckface is, he'd have needed the answers, we now know the answers he gets so we don't need to see them. Yes, it would have been boring, which is part of the reason DPC created the interlude imo, he knew it would be boring and would take a big chunk of the playtime of the episode, so he got it out of the way as a standalone mini-episode while also testing out the import mechanics to make sure it was working properly.

As Ilhares said, the one thing BaDIK has made absolutely clear is that the MC is a complete communication null-zone whenever the plot demands it. If we can suffer through "Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck. Fuck" for a poorly executed twist, the MC could roll with the abbreviated version of Zoey's vacation photos.

But more importantly, the Interlude didn't include the (present day) MC in the main action. Zoey's still going to have to explain all of this to him on screen so we can instruct him how to react to the news (unless we're in for a repeat of Episode 4's epic moping session). In the end the Interlude didn't save any time, at best it breaks even and at worst it dilutes the impact by making us play part of the combined sequence several months before we get to the important part.

The Interlude spends a lot of time going over trivial details, but it undersells the important parts (like Zoey's actual character growth). It's big because it's padded yet relies entirely on Episode 9 to make it mean anything. We'd have been far better off with a 5-ish minute montage to start Episode 9 and a few flashbacks when the MC and Zoey finally get together to compare notes. What we lost in volume we would more than make up from a tighter focus (to say nothing of saving development time). Instead of being distracted by a bunch of one-shot characters, we'd get to interact with Zoey as she answers our questions via our MC. Ideally we could also skip the bit about her only coming home because she's broke, too; that would make her a little more sympathetic.

 

[NewTricks]

You'd almost think it was the Rise of Skywalker by how badly people have taken it. The main difference being that the interlude actually had a script.

Yet the complaints about both are largely the same. Something along the lines of "Why is this two-hour-long toy commercial trying to sell me girl's toys! I want my boy toys back!"

All jokes aside any interlude is supposed to represent a break in the action. For those that are invested in the story moving forward, it is natural that they will be discouraged and disgruntled. Myself, I wasn't particularly invested. I had an idle curiosity to see what would happen in the next part but I was hardly on pins and needles about it. I'm sure that Fuckface is covered in enough lube to slip his way out of this pickle he finds himself in just fine. So I found the trip to San Diego a welcome change of pace. Knowing not everybody was going to feel that way, I tried to just take Zoey's little story on its own merits and came to the conclusion that the interlude was more about setting up the ways she needed to grow and change as a person than actually demonstrating any growth or change. You know, so her story arc wouldn't be finished and she had something to do for the rest of the game. Yet this admittedly does have the effect of making the interlude anticlimactic and therefore unsatisfying. So it doesn't hurt my feelings that posters are not exactly being effusive in their praise of it. Like I said, before I was curious but now I am attentive so the interlude must have served some useful purpose.

 

[Melissa fan]

any interlude is supposed to represent a break in the action.

I think that is fine in a TV show to have an episode that focuses on one or two main or even minor characters where you have 10+ weeks of new episodes and at the end a big storyline is wrapped up but when you are waiting 7+ months for one day of content that only slightly moves the story forward it is very frustrating. The Breaking bad episode Fly is similar in that it didn't do much for the main story besides a bit of setup but we had 9 weeks of episodes before that and 3 weeks after. Whereas with the BaDIK interlude we didn't get any content before it for a couple of months or any after it for 7 months so far.

I don't think the interlude would have been as bad if we had at least 5 flashbacks in 5 different episodes getting to know Zoey and her relationship with the MC a bit first. As it was going into the interlude Zoey was basically just a new character that I didn't care about. After the interlude I still don't care about Zoey and I couldn't care less about her relationship with the MC. Even just having her show up and the start of episode flashback being Zoey tell the MC a bit of what she was up to when she was away and having parts of the interlude as short flashbacks throughout the episode with Zoey telling the MC what she was doing and a few flashbacks of the MC on his own thinking about his relationship with Zoey or telling another character like Derek, Jacob or Rusty about her.

Even cutting some of the Zoey stuff from the interlude and having 20% of the episode showing flashbacks of the MC with the DIKs and side characters getting to know their characters and their relationships to the MC better. Even if people disliked the episode and/or characters at least there would be breaks in the episode getting to know characters we have been following for 3 years better.

If DPC held back the interlude and released it a month or a few weeks before episode 9 I don't think it would get as much hate. Even if you hated the interlude and skipped the entire thing it would still have delayed episode 9 but at least it would only be a month wait at most to get back to the characters and story people loved. I know the name of the game is BaDIK and Zoey will be in future episodes but this was not BaDIK it was a new game with a character we have seen in a flashback.

My biggest problem with the interlude isn't really the delay it caused for episode 9 but introducing a basically new character into a now almost 4 year old game that already had a lot of wait time between episodes and has a lot of really good side characters that could use the time Zoey will be taking up. I think the time she takes up in episodes would be better spent on a solo Josy and solo Maya route for the people that don't like the 3 way relationship or one of the girls, side girls that we have already known for 4 years, the DIKs and their friendship with the MC or just not have the Zoey content and make the episodes and wait time between episodes shorter.

If DPC wanted to bring in someone new then there is always Melissa from Acting Lessons. That game had a few different endings one of them could be unseen in AL and be Melissa going to college.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I swear people have spent more time whining about the interlude in this thread alone than DPC has making it.

3 months versus 8 ... it's not like it's such a bold bet

 

[dalli_x]

As Ilhares said, the one thing BaDIK has made absolutely clear is that the MC is a complete communication null-zone whenever the plot demands it. If we can suffer through "Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck. Fuck" for a poorly executed twist, the MC could roll with the abbreviated version of Zoey's vacation photos.

But more importantly, the Interlude didn't include the (present day) MC in the main action. Zoey's still going to have to explain all of this to him on screen so we can instruct him how to react to the news (unless we're in for a repeat of Episode 4's epic moping session). In the end the Interlude didn't save any time, at best it breaks even and at worst it dilutes the impact by making us play part of the combined sequence several months before we get to the important part.

The Interlude spends a lot of time going over trivial details, but it undersells the important parts (like Zoey's actual character growth). It's big because it's padded yet relies entirely on Episode 9 to make it mean anything. We'd have been far better off with a 5-ish minute montage to start Episode 9 and a few flashbacks when the MC and Zoey finally get together to compare notes. What we lost in volume we would more than make up from a tighter focus (to say nothing of saving development time). Instead of being distracted by a bunch of one-shot characters, we'd get to interact with Zoey as she answers our questions via our MC. Ideally we could also skip the bit about her only coming home because she's broke, too; that would make her a little more sympathetic.

You are making it too easy for yourself. DPC himself wrote that he did the interlude not only for technical reasons, but also so that we players would understand a context later.

The problem with an intro is that the player doesn't connect as much with the characters because they aren't interacting with them and are just reading a story instead of experiencing it. Also, we create Zoey's character ourselves to a certain extent. DIK or NEUTRAL. That's definitely not possible with an intro.

But given the discussions that DPC should have left it at the Zoey flashback from EP3, it clearly shows that DPC failed to bring the player closer to Zoey with that flashback. If Zoey is important to the overall story from the beginning, which I assume she is, DPC needed to create an emotional connection between the player and the character Zoey. It doesn't matter if the player's perception of the character Zoey is positive or negative. But the player is definitely emotionally closer to the character Zoey through Interlude.
DPC did everything right with Interlude as far as Zoey is concerned, and you are proof of that as well. What's worse, talking positively about a character or ranting about them? Not writing anything about a character.

DPC leaves us with a question in EP3 Zoey Flashback. Did the MC love Zoey or not? The Interlude shows us that he did love her and Zoey understands after over a year that she loves or misses the MC. Actually, at the end of the interlude, we still don't know if Zoey loves the MC or just misses him. Hence the interlude. I can very well imagine that our play style (Zoey DIK or Zoey NEUTRAL) will determine what Zoey's feelings are towards the MC in EP9.

After all, DPC told us what happened with Emma and Bret. Emma was separated from Bret just like Zoey was separated from the MC. Emma came back to Bret and they became friends. Zoey meets the MC in EP9. Will the MC give Zoey a kiss as a greeting, just like Emma would have wanted Bret to do? etc. Emma and Bret's story is actually the future story of Zoey and the MC, if we players allow that to happen through our choices. I don't think this is a trivial detail, because it is a decision-making tool for us players.

I also think that some characters from Interlude will interact with characters from BaDIK. Zoey told Bret at the end that not only will they talk to each other on the phone, but they can visit each other and even meet halfway. With Zoey back home, it will come to pass that the MC will meet the other characters from Interlude. At least we know which characters they are through Interlude.

I have already decided for myself which way my MC will go in regards to Zoey. Friendship yes, love no. And why? Zoey shows a tendency to run away from problems and not face them. To me, that's not a good foundation for a relationship. When you are in a relationship, your personal problem is also your partner's problem. But that's something everyone has to decide for themselves.

 

[georsak]

And thinking of DPC as a perfectionist he want to do it so that he is satisfied, not thinking of the waiting crowd (and not giving a fuck of all here not supporting him by being a patron).

I can certainly understand and respect that. It goes without saying that it's the creator's prerogative to keep working until they are satisfied with the result.
The counter argument would be that virtually every artist, be it author, musician or whatever, is never fully satisfied, and we all know many artists who state in interviews that they would change this or tweak that, when asked about previous works. If everyone was completely free of contracts or obligations we would have very little published artistic work.
It's the job of an agent or editor to bring the artist back to reality. Imagine an author having written a 50 chapter novel and at the time he should be thinking of an ending, he decides to add 10 more chapters, as DPC decided this late to add 1000 more renders. That's roughly 20% more content, I mean c'mon. Of course it's his right to do so, but any agent/publicist worth his salt would be all over his ass to wrap it up.

The thing is that DPC obviously has no agent and more importantly he has the luxury to indulge any idea that comes to him, as he continues to get paid. A band (not a superstar of course) didn't get paid any real money if they didn't put out an album in a timely fashion (when albums were a thing, I'm old ok?)

As everything in life, there are two sides on this coin. On the one hand, complete independance of the artist is of course a great thing. On the other, complete lack of obligations or ability to restrict themselves, increases the risk of works going on forever and never being completed.